Most Balanced 6th level power/spells/effects.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It is somewhat accepted that 9th level maneuvers are roughly the same power level as 6th level spells and most people are ok with the being usable "at-will"* so I was wondering which spells are the most balanced in that range.


*I know they are technically encounter, but it is relatively easy to refresh them on most encounters.

[Kennisiou]

What you mean by "most balanced" is kind of... well I mean I guess it depends on the campaign? What's gamebreakingly strong in one campaign may be necessary to advance in another.

I guess if you're asking which spells stack up against eachother to hit the middle, then...

Windwalk, True Seeing, Transport Via Plants, Speak With Dead are all really useful utility spells that aren't going to break the game when you get them at level 6. It's hard for me to really look at any battlefield control effects at that level and not feel like they're really strong, but I guess Acid Fog is probably not too strong considering it's basically a level four spell with some damage tacked on.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Maybe balanced isn't the right word, I was thinking on spells and effects that seem.... right? Dunno I find it somewhat difficult to explain.

[eggynack]

Maybe balanced isn't the right word, I was thinking on spells and effects that seem.... right? Dunno I find it somewhat difficult to explain.
I think your original meaning is pretty similar to this meaning. The issue is that neither meaning is particularly well defined. Defining underpowered or overpowered is hard enough without seeking out the perfect center between them. I don't even know where such a list would begin. What are some 6th level spells that you consider balanced? That'd give a good basis, I think. It's nigh on impossible to name spells that everyone considers balanced, but it's far easier to name spells that are at a particular power level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're looking for 6th level spells to turn into 9th level martial maneuvers, I'd consider using the following:

Haze of Smoldering Stone (DM, Desert Wind)
Ray of Light (SC, Devoted Spirit)
Brilliant Blade (SC, Diamond Mind)
Friendly Fire + Repeat Spell (EoE, CA, immediate-action version only, Iron Heart)
Overwhelm (PH2, Setting Sun)
Ruby Ray of Reversal (SC, Shadow Hand)
Cometfall (SC, Stone Dragon)
Aura of Terror (SC, Tiger Claw)
Mass Snake's Swiftness + Twin Spell (SC, CA, White Raven)

[Tvtyrant]

Blade Barrier as a high level stance and anchored around the user would be pretty awesome. Does okay damage to enemies the user is trying to melee with, and it grants cover to the user.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think your original meaning is pretty similar to this meaning. The issue is that neither meaning is particularly well defined. Defining underpowered or overpowered is hard enough without seeking out the perfect center between them. I don't even know where such a list would begin. What are some 6th level spells that you consider balanced? That'd give a good basis, I think. It's nigh on impossible to name spells that everyone considers balanced, but it's far easier to name spells that are at a particular power level.


If you're looking for 6th level spells to turn into 9th level martial maneuvers, I'd consider using the following:

Haze of Smoldering Stone (DM, Desert Wind)
Ray of Light (SC, Devoted Spirit)
Brilliant Blade (SC, Diamond Mind)
Friendly Fire + Repeat Spell (EoE, CA, immediate-action version only, Iron Heart)
Overwhelm (PH2, Setting Sun)
Ruby Ray of Reversal (SC, Shadow Hand)
Cometfall (SC, Stone Dragon)
Aura of Terror (SC, Tiger Claw)
Mass Snake's Swiftness + Twin Spell (SC, CA, White Raven)


Blade Barrier as a high level stance and anchored around the user would be pretty awesome. Does okay damage to enemies the user is trying to melee with, and it grants cover to the user.

I'm not trying to make spells into stances (though that is a cool idea I have to admit), I am working on a homebrew class which "shapes" arcane effects in a manner similar to the avatar d20 bending system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68630), the general idea is that the character would have several "seeds" to choose from and the combine them to create custom effects.

My idea was that the highest tier seeds would be comparable to level 6th spells and since they are supposed to be used on an encounter basis (each seed cost X points of a pool, which is renewed each encounter a ala Factotums IP) I want kind of a baseline for them.

[Novawurmson]

A quick look through the PF sorcerer/wizard spell list:

Antimagic Field
Dispel Magic, Greater
Ice Crystal Teleport (PF)
Wall of Iron
True Seeing
Heroism, Greater
Suggestion, Mass
Vengeful Outrage (PF)
Chain Lightning
Forceful Hand
Contagion, Greater
Create Undead
Curse, Major
Unwilling Shield (PF)
Bear's Endurance (et all), Mass
Disintegrate
Beast Shape IV (et all) (PF)

I think all of these could work, especially if you go through and tweak the numbers (range, duration, number of targets, area of effect, etc.).

Edit: Also, take a look at 6th level Bard and Inquisitor spells - those are two more classes generally considered to have balanced spell lists.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm not trying to make spells into stances (though that is a cool idea I have to admit), I am working on a homebrew class which "shapes" arcane effects in a manner similar to the avatar d20 bending system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68630), the general idea is that the character would have several "seeds" to choose from and the combine them to create custom effects.

My idea was that the highest tier seeds would be comparable to level 6th spells and since they are supposed to be used on an encounter basis (each seed cost X points of a pool, which is renewed each encounter a ala Factotums IP) I want kind of a baseline for them.

This sounds sort of like Dota's Invoker (http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Invoker). He gets three orbs he can level up, and he can have three orbs active in any combination, including multiples of the same one. Each type of orb gives him a passive benefit when it's active depending on its level and how many instances of that orb are active. He also has the ability to invoke spells based on which orbs he has active, giving him a total of ten spells that can be invoked. Each spell has various effects whose magnitudes are based on his level in each of its component orbs. Each of his abilities can't be leveled up more often than every other character level, though characters in that game go to level 25 and level up very quickly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

A quick look through the PF sorcerer/wizard spell list:

Antimagic Field
Dispel Magic, Greater
Ice Crystal Teleport (PF)
Wall of Iron
True Seeing
Heroism, Greater
Suggestion, Mass
Vengeful Outrage (PF)
Chain Lightning
Forceful Hand
Contagion, Greater
Create Undead
Curse, Major
Unwilling Shield (PF)
Bear's Endurance (et all), Mass
Disintegrate
Beast Shape IV (et all) (PF)

I think all of these could work, especially if you go through and tweak the numbers (range, duration, number of targets, area of effect, etc.).

Edit: Also, take a look at 6th level Bard and Inquisitor spells - those are two more classes generally considered to have balanced spell lists.

I was actually going to steal the Bard's spell adquisition for the tiers :smallredface:


This sounds sort of like Dota's Invoker (http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Invoker). He gets three orbs he can level up, and he can have three orbs active in any combination, including multiples of the same one. Each type of orb gives him a passive benefit when it's active depending on its level and how many instances of that orb are active. He also has the ability to invoke spells based on which orbs he has active, giving him a total of ten spells that can be invoked. Each spell has various effects whose magnitudes are based on his level in each of its component orbs. Each of his abilities can't be leveled up more often than every other character level, though characters in that game go to level 25 and level up very quickly.

Something similar yes, I am still on the brainstorming part for the system, but I can see how they are similar.

[lsfreak]

I think, in terms of power, freezing fog, heal, and fleshshiver are the golden standard for me for 6th level, the latter of which compares well to some of the (good) 9th level maneuvers and the middle of, of course, is a 9th level maneuver. But honestly, 6th level has always felt a little awkward to me... I think 5th and 7th levels are both better filled out, at least on the arcane side I'm used to playing.

[Novawurmson]

Oh, also: The Warlock! Greater/Dark Invocations should be a good balance point, too.