[PF] Newbie Requests Help

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Hello Playground,

I have only been playing D&D 3.5 as a Bard. But that was only for roughly 4 sessions long, each being 4 hours a piece or roughly thereabout.

But now my GM is proposing switching to Pathfinder and more specifically playing the Kingmaker AP. He has gotten the first book and says that from what he has read he likes the campaign and wants to run it.

Our problem is that we are only 3 people plus the GM.

My fellow players are tossing around the ideas of either a Samurai or Magus (Kensai or Bladebound) and the other player is playing a Witch with an Owl Familiar, or maybe a Cat.

I don't want to play a Bard, as much as I love them I want to try something else.

What do you recommend? I have looked through some of the threads on the Paizo site and a few people recommend the Druid, or Alchemist.

I also don't know the races. The first guy (Samurai or Magus) is gonna be a Human, he always is. And the Witch will likely be an Elf.

My GM allows anything that he can find on the d20PFSRD Website, or Homebrew or Conversions so long as I can provide them for him to examine.

I don't know much I basically let my friend walk me through the Bard build and I leveled him on my own but hardly optimized, my other party members are a mix of a vet and someone with just a few years more experience then me.

[Bhaakon]

Either an alchemist or a druid would be solid choices. Druid is probably a bit more thematically appropriate for that AP and certainly a more powerful choice. The animal companion would help make up for the being a player down (APs are meant for 4, though I don't think Kingmaker is a meat grinder, so 3 shouldn't be a problem).

That being said, I recommend a summoner or oracle. Once you start building your kingdom, Kingmaker favors a group to have a character with a high charisma, and I doubt either of the other character you described will have it. Both classes would provide things the group is short on (the summoner's eidolon would help make up for being one PC short, the oracle grant those nice diving casting buffs and a backup front-liner).

[holywhippet]

For race, consider being a dwarf. You get +2 to CON and WIS, the former helping you survive a bit better and the latter being useful to a druid or any divine spell casting class (generally). They also get a few other bonuses which help keep them from dying.

[Callin]

Break His Game! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer)

Seriously though. I had a ton of fun building and I played him for all of 1 round. 11k+ damage later the game eneded. Permanently

[Andvare]

I would definitely suggest a summoner.
They are partial casters, just like the bard (though with a very different spell list), have a beast that can easily act as a spare fighter, freeing up the samurai/magus to do what he want, and they have charisma as their main stat, which is a quite important stat in the kingdom builder rules.
The summoner can also act as both a battlefield controller and a buffer.
As long as your GM doesn't rely on the random encounter table in the first book (there are some CR 4 encounters there), the campaign is not that difficult. And the summoner can nicely fill up the role of more than one character, depending on how you make him.
If you need help with that last part, just ask.

Edit:
If you do make a summoner, make it a half-elf, which would fit quite well between the two others. :smallbiggrin:

Edit2: The summoner is a caster with a spell casting similar to the bard, that can wear the same type of armour as the bard, though no shields, and almost the same weapons. They aren't that much use in combat though, few of their abilities are geared towards that, unless you use the synthesist archetype, which I do not recommend.
They also have a companion, which they build/summon, and which progress as a side character alongside the summoner, and can become a beast of a melee fighter, or a skill monkey, or a mount, or a mixture.

[grarrrg]

The summoner is a caster..
They also have a companion, which they build/summon, and which progress as a side character alongside the summoner, and can become a beast of a melee fighter, or a skill monkey, or a mount, or a mixture.

:smallconfused:
Think you got that backwards.
The Summoner class is a massive melee beatstick of doom, that comes with a squishy Casting companion.
:smalltongue:

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Are Summoners really hard?
I know I said Druid but the Summoner is kinda new and I don't know the system all that well.

So you're saying Charisma based classes would be good? Does that make Diplo, Bluff, and Intimidate really useful?

How hard is it to run the Summoner?

The Artificer from the 3rd Party is interesting, but confusing.

Alchemist might be fun too.

To many interesting choices. If skills are a big deal maybe something skill focused? Dwarf as the race? That sounds alright with me, I noticed they have a ton and a half of the unique races so I was not sure.

[JusticeZero]

You have, in the Witch, a controller with utility who can do the full spectrum of healing as needed. You basically don't NEED anything else specific at that point, as long as you can deliver some smashing to the enemy. Someone with a lot of skills might be nice, maybe a face, or an AOE blaster, or a DPSer. Beyond that, basically whatever you want to play will fly. What do you think you would enjoy?

..either a Samurai or Magus (Kensai or Bladebound) and the other player is playing a Witch with an Owl Familiar, or maybe a Cat.

[Callin]

With the Artificer you are just a guy with the right tool for the job given enough time. You make all sorts of semi permanent magic items you and the rest of the party can use.

[Bhaakon]

Are Summoners really hard?

Unfortunately, they are one of the more confusing classes to run. The system to build your eidolon is about as complex as Pathfinder gets.


So you're saying Charisma based classes would be good? Does that make Diplo, Bluff, and Intimidate really useful?

No more than most adventure paths. The thing about Kingmaker is that eventually you get to construct your own kingdom, with the PCs manning various government posts. A lot of those roles--most notably the King--are keyed off of Charisma.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Well I found this race and it looks really cool fluff wise but would it have an LA?
Ghoran (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran)

What Class would work well with this race then?

[Saidoro]

Break His Game! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer)

Seriously though. I had a ton of fun building and I played him for all of 1 round. 11k+ damage later the game eneded. Permanently
That may be one of the most thoroughly off-putting recommendations for a class I've ever read. And I like that class.

Well I found this race and it looks really cool fluff wise but would it have an LA?
Ghoran (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran)

What Class would work well with this race then?
It would start with an LA of 1 which would be reduced to 0 at some later point(I can't remember when, precisely). The race would work best as a bard, sorcerer or oracle. Be sure to check with your DM before trying to play one, bestiary races are a bit iffy.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

The reason I ask is because PF doesnt do La and I am confused on how its done. The link shows a lvl 1 bard at a CR of 1/2

[grarrrg]

It would start with an LA of 1 which would be reduced to 0 at some later point(I can't remember when, precisely). The race would work best as a bard, sorcerer or oracle. Be sure to check with your DM before trying to play one, bestiary races are a bit iffy.

First off, PF does not have LA. There is a system to play as Monsters that has vague similarities though.
But to use the 'familiar' term: It would start with an LA of Zero.

If a monster entry has a specific "Play as Character" side-box, then they can (usually) be played 'as is' (with DM approval).
"Ghorans are defined by their class levels–they do not possess racial Hit Dice. They have the following racial traits."


The reason I ask is because PF doesnt do La and I am confused on how its done. The link shows a lvl 1 bard at a CR of 1/2

CR is ROUGHLY based on the assumption that 'the party' is about 4 people.
Thus even though it has One Full Class Level, it on it's own is not much of a threat.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Oh thank you, Still learning PF as the OP says.

How well would this race fit into a Bard or Druid Class?

Fluff Wise I could see a Ghoran being a druid, after all they are literally living nature. As for a bard, the melodic tune of nature works well.

[Crustypeanut]

Ghorans are charismatic, dextrous, but.. not very intelligent. I.E., a good Bard.

They are plants, too - making them immune to many spells humanoids are vulnerable to, while simultaneously making them weak against other spells that don't affect humanoids. Overall, its a positive gain.

Ghoran have one MAJOR weakness, though: They require daily sunlight. Luckily for you, Kingmaker is mostly above-ground.. so as long as you don't stay underground for days on end, you'll be fine.

Ghoran also have a neat little feature. They can pop a seed from their bellies, which if planted, will grow into a new Ghoran - though, upon sprouting, the original will die. This can be used in multiple ways. 1: Redo your skill points for free! 2: a "I'm probably going to die soon, so I'm going to prepare this seed just in case I do die." However, they'll become weaker after they split their seed.

Best to avoid using that though, as its tricky.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I saw that, I kinda saw it as a suicide mission failsafe. Since he can just regrow himself you send him into the situations where death is a pretty good odd. He might be weaker (One Negative Level) but if he dies no big deal we get him back in 2d6 days.

I do love my bard, but I was looking into maybe trying something new. But again I haven't played a PF Bard. How much is different really?

[Crustypeanut]

Instead of Bardic Performances/day, you get Bardic Performance Rounds/day.

As a result, you get overall less Bardic Performance - but you can split it into small segements, such as one or two rounds in a combat.

Archetypes, however? Those change a ton. Theres one Archetype that lets you use your voice to blast people with sonic, and later even call lightning. With your voice.

Theres another that lets you eventually wear heavy armor while casting, not to mention enchant your weapon (and eventually, a ton of weapons) with your songs.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Thats very cool. Thank you all for the help so much.

At least now I won't have to play a Leprechaun (My GF is the female player and she is obsessed with Irish things so the GM said he would make me play a Leprechaun if I didn't find something by the time of the game.)