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View Full Version : VoP from BoED... I need details



Shadow
2007-01-03, 07:37 PM
I'm making a character for a pen and paper game.

The concept will be to start as a LG human monk with a vow of poverty, lose the lawful aspect for chaos (unintentianlly of course) when he discovers his innate affinity for Eldritch Magic, becoming a Warlock. Eventually enter the Enlightened fist PrC.

Does anyone have a BoED handy? I don't have one, and normally don't use it, but thought it fitting for this character. I need the details on VoP chart if you' be so kind...

Shadow
2007-01-03, 07:51 PM
I thought WotC stuff was open gaming liscense....

If I'm wrong about that then I apologize and remove my request!

Rigeld2
2007-01-03, 07:54 PM
Cant give you the details on the chart as its not OGC.

And I'm not sure youd keep VoP if you stray from LG. Just FYI.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 07:56 PM
You have to be good, but not lawful good if I remeber correctly... Like I said, I don't have the book. But there are plenty of non-lawful PrC's and such in there, so I don't see why only the lawful ones could take the vow.

Zherog
2007-01-03, 07:57 PM
I thought WotC stuff was open gaming liscense....

If I'm wrong about that then I apologize and remove my request!

The only WotC material that's OGC is what's in the SRD and Unearthed Arcana.

Zherog
2007-01-03, 07:57 PM
And I'm not sure youd keep VoP if you stray from LG. Just FYI.

CG and NG characters may take a Vow of Poverty - as long as they continue to live up to the high standards of being considered "Exalted."

Shadow
2007-01-03, 08:05 PM
The only WotC material that's OGC is what's in the SRD and Unearthed Arcana.

I wasn't sure. Thanks.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 08:08 PM
Just download the book illegally off the internet.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-01-03, 08:09 PM
Shadow, what exactly is the point of taking a class, and then throwing away what it is a level later? Seems to me there are better classes to start out as than monk for this situation.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 08:09 PM
Not exactly the kind of response I was looking for, but thanks...

[EDIT: you're too quick, Purple...
That was for Bears]

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 08:09 PM
Ex-monks keep all their abilities.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 08:11 PM
Shadow, what exactly is the point of taking a class, and then throwing away what it is a level later? Seems to me there are better classes to start out as than monk for this situation.

What do you mean? With this concept it's perfect for the monk.
What would you do?

Zincorium
2007-01-03, 08:36 PM
Honestly, you should play this character. If it lives, you've proven you can survive with what may be one of the worst class and feat combinations ever undertaken.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 08:37 PM
Zinc, both monks and warlocks are great at surviving. VoP helps, too, in that it can't be taken away.

The problem will be actually doing something useful during any given combat round.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 08:38 PM
Honestly, you should play this character. If it lives, you've proven you can survive with what may be one of the worst class and feat combinations ever undertaken.

That sounds like a challenge!
Challenge accepted!

Zincorium
2007-01-03, 08:50 PM
Zinc, both monks and warlocks are great at surviving. VoP helps, too, in that it can't be taken away.

The problem will be actually doing something useful during any given combat round.

The latter part was my main point, although the build is suffering from some absolutely horrible MAD issues as well as a severe confusion of what type of attack to use.

Melee will do very little damage, ranged will do slightly less damage than a warlock of the same level (which is barely adequate anyway). BAB at 20th, with all 10 levels of enlightened fist, 1 of monk and 9 of warlock, will be 13. That's not as bad as say, a wizard, but it's pretty horrible for a character who relies on attack rolls to do anything, and if you can pump charisma to try and get decent save DC's for your invocations, your MAD bites you in the (&^. The warlock invocations will remove some of the weaknesses of VoP, admittedly, but it's not stellar by any means.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 09:16 PM
What're you... all munchkins? It's about finding a character concept that's fun to play, not how freakishly powerful we can make it.
Anyway, with a few well chosen feats/invocations he could be very usefull in combat. Especially when you consider all the extra feats from VoP. Not to mention invocations can be used at will. Can you say "counterspeller?"

Thomas
2007-01-03, 09:25 PM
What're you... all munchkins? It's about finding a character concept that's fun to play, not how freakishly powerful we can make it.

False dilemma!

This isn't about "freakishly powerful." This is about "worse than a straight monk or warlock."

Piedmon_Sama
2007-01-03, 09:27 PM
Zincorium has a good point. I tried building a Warlock/Monk for an NPC in one campaign, but my character concept pretty much required every ability be good except for Intelligence. Of course, I was using 28 point buy, so your mileage may vary.

Rigeld2
2007-01-03, 09:28 PM
Shadow - you just lost all respect you had from me. Wanting to make an effective build != munchkin. You can take any concept at all and make a decent build for it.

And no, I dont think you can make him "very useful" in combat. Invocations can be used at will once per round, so maybe he can counterspell something if he rolls well (considering the DC is going to be prohibitively high in most cases) as long as you spend your one Lesser Invocation on that invocation. But most likely not, so youll stand there looknig foolish. I bet you will live for a long time tho since your opponents wont bother attacking you until theyve finsihed off the rest of your party.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 09:33 PM
I'll repeat...


What're you... all munchkins? It's about finding a character concept that's fun to play

And anytime you multiclass you end up with a character that's less powerful than either class individually. It's inherent.


Shadow - you just lost all respect you had from me. Wanting to make an effective build != munchkin. You can take any concept at all and make a decent build for it
......
I bet you will live for a long time tho since your opponents wont bother attacking you until theyve finsihed off the rest of your party.

To point #1 - I was simply stating that the character wouldn't be quite as useless as they think.
To point #2 - Yeah... probably... but it'll still be a fun character to play!

Piedmon_Sama
2007-01-03, 09:33 PM
If I might suggest a homebrew feat I came up with a while back...

Ascetic Occultist

Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Eldritch Blast

Benefit: Monk and Warlock levels stack for unarmed strike and eldritch blast damage. You may multiclass freely between Monk and Warlock, provided you maintain a Lawful Evil alignment.

themightybiggun
2007-01-03, 09:43 PM
eeeehhhh....let's take it easy with the cries of "munchkin" please, civility is important on a board such as this.

As to your "concept," all we've heard is the classes, you haven't given us any sort of roleplaying ideas either. Just classes.

A character defined solely by his classes...hark, do I hear the call of a pot?

Anyways, firstly, get used to this sort of response on this board, this is pretty much optimization central, so...yea.

If you want advice on your character, then you need to give us something to work with. You give us a list of classes, we let you know that you're going to be hurting at the end of the game...almost comically so. C'mon, it's like a legal obligation to let someone know that it is a really bad idea to have a fighting character with 13 BAB. Ouch. Beyond the other problems the class might have.

Anyways, point is, these forums are like a toaster, you really only get what you put in, and even then, it usually comes out a little burnt anyway.

Rigeld2
2007-01-03, 09:45 PM
And anytime you multiclass you end up with a character that's less powerful than either class individually. It's inherent.
False.

Fighter10/Dervish10 is much better than Fighter20. Heck, theres all kinds of multiclass combos that are better than the original parent. Your specific example (Monk/Warlock) is just an example of two classes that dont mesh well at all, and start out sub-par, so get even worse when combined.


To point #1 - I was simply stating that the character wouldn't be quite as useless as they think.
Oh no, itll be exactly as useless as they think. And I agree with them. And you called all of us munchkins for saying that the build was pretty much crap. Cause it is. IMO youd be better off going straight warlock and ignoring the Enlightened Fist PrC unless youre dead set on it... especially since 3 of the abilities gained you cant use. You can take Imp. Unarmed Strike and be monkly without having the class to back it up.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 09:46 PM
No, we're not munchkins. But we do want to make sure that if you're going to be playing a character who can't help his party in combat, pretty much at all, you realize it.
And that's what will happen. You will be doing a piddly amount of d6es once a round. It will be exactly as useless as we think.
"Monk/Warlock" isn't a character concept. It's a build concept. A character concept wouldn't mention classes, because there's dozens of ways to build every character concept.

Piedmon_Sama
2007-01-03, 09:49 PM
If I might suggest a homebrew feat I came up with a while back...

Ascetic Occultist

Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Eldritch Blast

Benefit: Monk and Warlock levels stack for unarmed strike and eldritch blast damage. You may multiclass freely between Monk and Warlock, provided you maintain a Lawful Evil alignment.

Should say Attack Bonus and damage, sry.

Zincorium
2007-01-03, 10:01 PM
To point #1 - I was simply stating that the character wouldn't be quite as useless as they think.
To point #2 - Yeah... probably... but it'll still be a fun character to play!

The points aren't as seperate as they ideally would be. You can successfully roleplay anything. You can have a hulking hurler cheesemaster who is the most memorable and quirky character in the campaign.

But a large part of D&D is usually combat or other challenges, and if you are unable to succeed at challenges, and thus constantly have to deal with personal failure and dissappointing your companions, it is nearly impossible to have fun for the duration of those challenges.

And I'm going to have to chime in on the build, rather than character, idea you put forth. If you want honest criticism, it's been given. If you want actual roleplaying advice, ask for it and we'll try to help.

Lastly, munchkin, no matter how freely you use it in your group, is a very insulting term to throw about generally. I'm a snarky bastard when I'm not being insulted.

Shadow
2007-01-03, 10:01 PM
As to your "concept," all we've heard is the classes, you haven't given us any sort of roleplaying ideas either. Just classes.

......

If you want advice on your character, then you need to give us something to work with.

You're absolutely right. I haven't given you anything on the character's background. Mainly because it never occurred to me since this thread started for another reason. It turned immediately to this simply because the information I was looking for isn't Open Gaming Liscense as I had incorrectly thought.

I won't waste any more of your time with the details, but this is someone that will be fun to play.

Thanks to all of you for your input though.

[EDIT] The "munchkin" comment was a joke. Too bad you can't read tone of voice. If I insulted anyone as Zincorium suggested, it was unintentional.

Roland St. Jude
2007-01-03, 10:11 PM
Sheriff of Moddinham: This thread started with an inappropriate request for these boards and went downhill from there. It's being locked.