My Latest Ideas for a Rogue Build

[Mosca]

I've been doing some research in rogue builds lately, and I wanted to get some opinions on my latest ideas. Many of these ideas were derived from PId6's The Rogue Handbook: A Fistful of d6.

Human - to get Able Learner. I plan on being a bit of a skill monkey for my party

Ability scores were rolled by the rules in PHB
Str - 11
Dex - 14
Con - 12
Int - 16 (for skillpoints, insightful strike, and spellcasting)
Wis - 8
Cha - 10

4 levels of Rogue - get evasion and uncanny dodge
3 levels of Swashbuckler - pick up weapon finesse, Insightful Strike, and Daring Outlaw to get an extra 2d6 sneak
1 level of Fighter - thug/sneak attack variant for +1 bab, extra d6 sneak, d10 hit die
1 level Swordsage - mainly to pick up Assassin Stance and Shadow Blade. Possibly go with the Monk variant just for the fun of being able to punch things
1 level Wizard/Beguiler - to meet prerequisites for Unseen Seer. Would appreciate comments on whether to choose Wizard or Beguiler
10 levels Unseen Seer - of course, I plan to get Practiced Spellcaster to make up for all the multiclassing. Use advanced learning to obtain Grave Strike, Vine Strike, and Golem Strike

Other ideas for feats:
Two-weapon Fighting
Darkstalker
Snap Kick (in the case that I get Improved Unarmed Strike)

I don't know how I'm going to work it out chronologically just yet. I considered incorporating Invisible Blade, but when I heard that feint as a free action was only once per round, I lost interest.

I know this build is nothing special (11d6 sneak, 14 BAB, spells), so I would appreciate comments on ways to improve it. Thanks!

[Flickerdart]

Use Advanced Learning to grab Hunter's Eye, the Ranger spell from PHBII that gives you +1d6 Sneak Attack per 3 caster levels. Then find a way to Persist it. Enjoy the extra fistful of dice.

[Sith_Happens]

Melee or Unseen Seer, pick one. I guarantee you that trying to stab things with 12 CON and 11d4 HD will not end well.

[Flickerdart]

Melee or Unseen Seer, pick one. I guarantee you that trying to stab things with 12 CON and 11d4 HD will not end well.
Even with 6th level spells, it's not that hard not being hit.

[Emperor Tippy]

Rogue 1/ Factotum 4/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 1/ Wizard 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Unseen Seer 10 does what you want better; although I would drop the wizard and Unseen Seer.

Spend your Martial Monk feat on Martial Stance: Assassins Stance.

Take Craven as one of your feats (+HD to sneak attack damage)

Take lots of Font of Inspiration.

You have an always on (with Unseen Seer) +7d6+HD+Int+Dex sneak attack that you can push far higher with Cunning Strike (potential to +25d6 or so extra sneak attack damage). You can also add Int to damage again via Cunning Insight (and Int to attack).

And if you start next to your target you can use Decisive Strike to double your damage for that attack. Your DM might or might not let you double the sneak attack dice but you do get to double all of those fixed +X's. So +2*HD+4*Int+2*Dex+2*Str+2*5(Collision weapon Property), and that can be repeated as many times as you want.

[Mosca]

I didn't realize Hunter's Eye was 1d6 per 3 levels. Looks pretty nice. Persisting it, however, might be a bit challenging for this build.
About what Sith Happens said, I do realize this build is gonna be pretty squishy, the majority of the hit dice being 1d4. The thing is, I haven't experienced what it's like to be high leveled, so I guess I'm in for a rude awakening if I make it that far.
I never really thought about looking into Factotum stuff, but from what you said, Tippy, it sounds pretty cool.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll have a bit of reworking to do.

[SciChronic]

isnt the Invisible Fist ACF a 2nd lvl monk requirement?

[Emperor Tippy]

isnt the Invisible Fist ACF a 2nd lvl monk requirement?

Yes it is, I wasn't thinking. I would dump one of the Unseen Seer levels for it (granted, I would dump all of the Unseen Seer levels and probably go Psion 11 instead if I wanted some casting).

[SciChronic]

i would dip swordsage 1 myself, so that you can take island of blades along with assassin stance to open up a bit more options to get sneak attacks.

another consideration is going Rogue 3 for Penetrating Strike

i personally don't like spellcasting too much on my skillmonkeys (its a crutch :smallamused:)

i would do something like Swordsage 1 (if your DM allows the x6, otherwise after Monk levels)/ Rogue 3/Factotum 3/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Something with good Skill Points and can improve SA X.

Key feats:
Knowledge Devotion, Craven, Item Familiar, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Font of Inspiration*X, Able Learner

a lot of lengthy dips before it really gets rolling though...

[Mosca]

Just remembered that Invisible Blade can be made more effective paired with the Surprising Riposte feat. Any comments on this?

[Phaederkiel]

do not forget that 1 lvl swordsage grants only a lvl 1 stance. You need 2 Lvls for assasins stance.


Your main Problem with this much multiclassing will be hitting at all.
Yes, you have some Full-Bab Classes, but on the other hand you have so many half and threequarter BAB classes, many of which you only 1 Lvl of, that you will crush your Atk somewhat hard.

I do not think that you will be able to hit with anything but touch attacks.
Problem with Touch attacks: You cannot full attack.

[Mosca]

I think the level 1 stance at level 1 Swordsage seems debatable. The text states: "You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 14th, and 20th level, you can choose additional stances." To me, "begin play" sounds like the player is starting Swordsage at character level 1, as opposed to multiclassing into Swordsage. Was there ever an official ruling on this?