Ruby knight Vindicator class

[Devronq]

I was just reading the Ruby knight vindicator class for the first time and in general seems like a pretty great class has full BAB 8/10 divine casting and some maneuver progression. Anyways just noticed a weird thing about the class more of a fluff problem, it says at the end of the class that a paladin who takes this class can continue advancing as a paladin but the class requires you worship wee-jas a lawful neutral dirty of death. Why would a paladin worship a LN deity of death? I don't think their prohibited from doing so but its kinda wonky right?

[Kennisiou]

Paladins aren't barred from worshipping LN deities or Wee Jas. Wee Jas is a deity that sees death as something natural, not something to be perverted by undeath or brought about needlessly and without proper respect. Think of her as the goddess of funerals, of respect for the dead. In this regard, paladins really do click with her clergy's ideals (although they click less in regard to the whole part where the clergy's heavily based around sorcerors and arcane magic).

[rexx1888]

theyd be alot less irritating that way though...

[CyberThread]

want to know who is a llot less irritating, a paladin of cyric....

[Manly Man]

You can be within one step of your deity's alignment, so there's that, but the easiest way to describe it fluff-wise would be to have the Paladin cast death in a positive light. Should you have been a good person, you will then never suffer again after passing, you will be able to meet your dead friends, relatives, and any other loved ones you may have had in life. Yes, you leave this mortal coil behind, but you end up rewarded with a rather pleasant and eternal afterlife.

I've actually played a Paladin of Wee Jas, and she was the most cheerful character of the bunch, although she was also a bit naive when it came to people on the whole. Still, when you have a party whose most optimistic member worships a death goddess, you know things are grimdark.

[Nocharim]

Wee Jas is a deity that sees death as something natural, not something to be perverted by undeath or brought about needlessly and without proper respect. Think of her as the goddess of funerals, of respect for the dead. In this regard, paladins really do click with her clergy's ideals (although they click less in regard to the whole part where the clergy's heavily based around sorcerors and arcane magic).

Wee Jas doesn't mind someone being raised as an undead being, as long as its not done against their will or that their remains or resting place are not desecrated. Many of her followers are explicitly stated to be necromancers.

She is very strict when it comes to rules, but otherwise she is a fairly benevolent Death goddess revered by many to grant peaceful passing to the afterlife. Paladins can easily fulfil this part along with hunting down those who have broken her rules. Or even protect those who study magic of life and death from unjust persecution.

I seem to recall her having something to do with reincarnating (and memory wiping) the faithless as well. but can't seem to recall where I read of it. Dragon #350 Core Beliefs: Wee Jas, The Godless Dead myth, but seems to only apply to Suel.

If the magic or death aspects of Wee Jas sound boring or unfitting for a paladin one can still follow her as a goddess of Love as weird as that sounds having read the rest of her portfolio.

[Maginomicon]

Plus, there are "paladins" for every alignment. In particular, an "Enforcer" of Wee Jas would be in lockstep with that deity's ideals.

Codes of Conduct

The following is a collection of the various paladin-like codes of conduct (for paladins and paladin variants). The red words in this subsection indicate what actually causes the character to "fall". Some would imply that violating any part of their code of conduct causes them to fall, but believing so is untenable in-practice. It's much more reasonable that violating the lesser aspects of their code of conduct causes mostly social repercussions if discovered (such as temporarily being forbidden access to certain... church resources until mundane restitution is made).

Potentially-Enlightening External Resources: No More Overzealous Paladins (http://www.paperspencils.com/2011/12/07/no-more-overzealous-paladins/)
A Paladin’s Fall (http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/03/12/a-paladins-fall/)
The Paladin’s Oath, and GM Clarity (http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/03/14/the-paladins-oath-and-gm-clarity/)


Orthodox Codes of ConductPaladins [of Honor] (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm); Lawful Good a.k.a. “Path of Integrity”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit an evil act. She respects legitimate authority, acts with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), helps those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punishes those who harm or threaten innocents.

Paladins of Freedom (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny); Chaotic Good a.k.a. “Path of Liberty”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit an evil act. He respects individual liberty, helps those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punishes those who threaten or curtail personal liberty.

Paladins of Tyranny (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny); Lawful Evil a.k.a. “Path of Ascendency”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a good act. He respects authority figures as long as they have the strength to rule over the weak, acts with discipline (not engaging in random slaughter, keeping firm control over those beneath his station, and so forth), helps only those who help him maintain or improve his status, and punishes those who challenge authority (unless, of course, such challengers prove more worthy to hold that authority).

Paladins of Slaughter (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny); Chaotic Evil a.k.a. “Path of Luxury”) loses all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a good act. She disrespects all authority figures who have not proven their physical superiority to her, refuses help to those in need, and sows destruction and death at all opportunities.Unorthodox Codes of ConductSentinels (Dragon Magazine #310 page 50; Neutral Good a.k.a. “Path of Mercy”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit an evil act. Sentinels are most at home in the wilderness of the Material Plane. He only journeys into cities when absolutely necessary, and he avoids travel to other planes except in the most dire need, since his vows require him to battle evil on his home plane. These vows call for him to protect the natural order of the Material Plane from becoming influenced or tainted by the forces of the evil Outer Planes. Additionally, the sentinel is honor-bound to provide assistance to any non-outsider who becomes lost or endangered while in the wilderness, as long as the victim in need honors the sanctity of the wilderness.

Avengers (Dragon Magazine #310 page 49; Chaotic Good a.k.a. “Path of Liberty”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit an evil act or willingly allies with a lawful government or affiliated agency. While the avenger’s life is based around achieving vengeance and retribution for the oppressed and downtrodden, she must temper this vengeance appropriately. Killing should be the last resort of the avenger when a more appropriate and less destructive form of vengeance will do, and even then, slaying an oppressor should be reserved only for the most evil villains. Avengers must aid and assist anyone who asks for help (within reason) and must not join any organized association, order, or group. She may attend the services of her church but is encouraged to worship in private.

Anarchs (Dragon Magazine #310 page 47; Chaotic Neutral a.k.a. “Path of Autonomy”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a blatantly lawful act (such as abiding by an oath, fulfilling a contract, or joining an organization such as a brotherhood or fellowship). Aside from this, an anarch’s code is little more than a lack of a code. As long as he continues to cause chaos and foment disrespect for law in others, his status as an anarch is secure. (NOTE: An adventuring party is hardly an organization on the level of a "brotherhood" or "fellowship", despite what Tolkien would have you believe. That said, as soon as the party would become some kind of official entity however, an anarch would leave the party.)

Anti-Paladins (Dragon Magazine #312 page 20; Chaotic Evil a.k.a. “Path of Luxury”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a good act. He must work at all times to undermine the works of civilization and good peoples, and must never offer mercy or grant quarter unless he betrays his word in the next hour. He cannot join an organization, but he can perform services for others as long as the services are for pay and ultimately lead to chaos and devastation.

Corrupters (Dragon Magazine #312 page 24; Neutral Evil a.k.a. “Path of Supremacy”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a good act or an act that exposes their faith to an opposing religion and results in their detriment. He must strive to corrupt and taint all faiths apart from his own, with a special focus on good faiths. He is allowed to make whatever vows or declarations are required in order to maintain this deception, as long as he spends at least an hour each day in private prayer to his deity. He must strive to remain hidden, although the methods by which he undermines other faiths are left to his own discretion.

Despots (Dragon Magazine #312 page 23; Lawful Evil a.k.a. “Path of Ascendency”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a chaotic act (such as breaking a vow or contract or betraying an ally). She must at all times work to expand and grow her domain, either by virtue of the Leadership feat or by strong-arming those less fortunate and powerful than herself. She is allowed to abuse her sovereignty in any way she sees fit to further her own personal strength and glory, but she must protect and defend her subjects and allies from harm from other forces. Likewise, she must not overburden her subjects so that they cannot support her.

Enforcers (Dragon Magazine #310 page 53; Lawful Neutral a.k.a. “Path of Harmony”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit a chaotic act (such as breaking a vow or contract or betraying an ally). Unlike other holy warriors, enforcers are bound to the will of two beings. Their primary liege remains their divine patron, but they must also serve the will of their worldly liege. The enforcer’s patron deity and his liege’s patron deity must be the same. If an enforcer believes his liege is not acting in the best interests of his deity, he is permitted to act against his liege as long as he can expose his liege’s heresy within 24 hours. An enforcer is not allowed to accept a position of leadership that would place him in a position where he would not have a liege above him in the rank of command, except in the case of an emergency (and even then, for no more than 24 hours). The enforcer must uphold and enforce the laws of the church and land at all times, even when the laws would prevent him from fully accomplishing a desired personal goal.

Incarnates (Dragon Magazine #310 page 52; True Neutral a.k.a. “Path of Equity”) lose all class abilities if they ever willingly commit an act that endangers the natural balance of the world. The incarnate is most at home in the wilderness, but she does not take any special vows to avoid city life. She avoids travel to other planes (with the exception of the Elemental Planes to which she has an affinity) except in the most dire need. The incarnate prefers to arrive at peaceful solutions but is fully capable of using force against unwanted intrusions into this realm from beyond.

[Red Fel]

As Nocharim points out, Wee Jas is a goddess overseeing death. As such, an LG paladin could seek out those who would subvert lawful death (much like a small-scale Marut). Alternatively, a Paladin of Wee Jas might be a guardian of a Jasite church, or a protector of sacred burial sites.

Yet another alternative is to look at Wee Jas' other portfolio - she is, after all, the Ruby Sorceress. A Paladin of Wee Jas may seek out and punish evil abuses of magic.

The key element of Wee Jas is that she is not evil; she is lawful. She is rigidly hierarchical. And while I loathe the "emphasis on the lawful" LG Paladin trope, which brings so many Paladins to the point of playing Javert, in this case it would be entirely appropriate. A Paladin of Wee Jas may well be a grim, determined hunter of those who desecrate his Lady's holy sites, those who sin against death and magic, and so forth.

A Paladin of Wee Jas could, alternatively, be very serene. I once composed an RKV idea which basically consisted of someone who had been raised to be a killer by the Jasite Church, but in her off-time had a small cottage where she raised roses. She was quiet, pleasant, and pensive, and actually considered life sacred, given that death was similarly so sacred. And then periodically she would receive a missive with a ruby skull seal, put on her mask and cloak, and step out and make some people ultradead. Then she would go back to her rose garden.

It's not irreconcilable, although you might have to ignore some of the stealth aspects of RKV to play it well.

[Nocharim]

As such, an LG paladin could seek out those who would subvert lawful death (much like a small-scale Marut).

Except that Wee Jas doesn't really care what you do to yourself as long as you don't exploit souls of the Suel or outright destroy souls to do so. She even has Animate Dead listed on her stat block in Deities and Demigods.



Yet another alternative is to look at Wee Jas' other portfolio - she is, after all, the Ruby Sorceress. A Paladin of Wee Jas may seek out and punish evil abuses of magic.

Struck the word 'evil' for accuracy as she doesn't really care of morality. Outright breaking the rules of magic is a big no-no for her, mostly due to that the rules of magic compose the vast majority of her own laws. This is one of the reasons she abhors binders. She does discourage the use of epic magic, but doesn't place restrictions on it as it would be redundant (the restrictions are inbuilt). Most of the specific laws Wee Jas follows are unpublished, but there have been a few tidbits. Forcing a creature to go against its nature is one of them and the given example is a succubus that has been changed to lawful. What made this example rather amusing is that the one who did so was Wee Jas herself using a loophole by changing the nature of the succubus to [Lawful] as a part of an oath.



The key element of Wee Jas is that she is not evil; she is lawful..

It is important to note that she isn't good either. Lawful Neutral with evil tendencies would be the most accurate way to describe her.



A Paladin of Wee Jas could, alternatively, be very serene. I once composed an RKV idea which basically consisted of someone who had been raised to be a killer by the Jasite Church, but in her off-time had a small cottage where she raised roses. She was quiet, pleasant, and pensive, and actually considered life sacred, given that death was similarly so sacred. And then periodically she would receive a missive with a ruby skull seal, put on her mask and cloak, and step out and make some people ultradead. Then she would go back to her rose garden.


Isn't this almost straight out of the RKV entry?

Other PC ideas and tasks:
Exposing Vecna/Nerull cultists who have infiltrated the church, akin to an Inquisitor.
Liberating (Suel) souls from those who have bound them against their will.
PC has been raised from the dead either by resurrection or animated as undead to accomplish a specific task for Wee Jas.
Hunting down those who make mockery of the rules of magic or have acquired magic through unnatural means. (Binders, Ur-Priests etc.)
Bringing uncontrolled undead to rest.
Apprehending grave robbers.
Acting as a judge or a mediator in a dispute or overseeing a wedding.

Anyway, Wee Jas is an incredibly complex deity. And that is even without mentioning to her on-off incestous relationship with Norebo (CN Suel God of Luck).

[Manly Man]

A Paladin of Wee Jas could, alternatively, be very serene. I once composed an RKV idea which basically consisted of someone who had been raised to be a killer by the Jasite Church, but in her off-time had a small cottage where she raised roses. She was quiet, pleasant, and pensive, and actually considered life sacred, given that death was similarly so sacred. And then periodically she would receive a missive with a ruby skull seal, put on her mask and cloak, and step out and make some people ultradead. Then she would go back to her rose garden.

My first thought on this was of Kariya Kagetoki from Samurai Champloo (mostly because of how in his retirement, he does almost nothing but manage a large garden) although I don't think that I would exactly consider him to be an honorable man.