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View Full Version : Is this spell balanced?



Clistenes
2013-10-22, 02:14 AM
It is basically a less powerful, non-evil version of Mindrape.


Memory Erasure

Enchantment [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sorcerer 9, Wizard 9, Cleric 9, Druid 9
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Components: V, S, M.
Material Component: *Some stuff worth 500 gp*
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

The caster can erase any portion of the memories or the target creature.

The spell can work in three ways:

1.-The caster can choose some piece of knowledge (like knowledge of a sorcerer spell, knowledge ranks, a feat, information about a creature or individual, the location of an object or place...etc.) to be removed from the mind of the target creature.

Unlike Mindrape or Programmed Amnesia, the spell doesn't give the caster knowledge of the memories of the target creature, but he/she can order the erasure of a memory without actually knowing if the target really has it (for example, "remove all knowledge [target creature] has about myself or my family").

2.-The caster can erase any length of time from the memories of the target creature, from mere minutes to his/her whole life. The memories erased don't need to be those of the latest period of the target's life: the spell can, for example, erase any memories of the childhood of the target creature without affecting the memories of his/her adult life.

The target's mechanical abilities (class features, weapon proficiencies, feats, skill ranks, spellcasting...etc.) aren't affected when the spell is used in this way.

3.-The caster can erase the experience acquired by the target creature, removing any number of levels. The target creature keeps saves, hit points, abilities and attack bonus, but he/she loses class features, spells, feats and skills.

The target creature can relearn his skills, feats and class features paying half the XP price per level. If the target takes levels in a different class, he/she must pay the full XP price per level. If the target takes levels in a class that grants him/her higher saves, attack bonus or hit points than the original one, he keeps the highest ones (for example, a wizard who loses his class levels because of this spell, and takes levels as rogue afterwards, would use the rogue's attack bonus, reflex save bonus and hit points, but the wizard's will save bonus).

This spell doesn't directly affect a creature's alignment, personality or allegiances, but it can indirectly affect them due to the removal of important, life-defining memories. The DM has the final say about how those aspects of the target creature are affected.

The removal of levels can be reversed with Greater Restoration, but only Miracle or Wish can restore the lost memories. Casting Break Enchantment, Greater Restoration and Regenerate one after another can restore lost memories too.

If a creature takes different feats, skills and class levels while under the effect of this spell, and later his experience is restored, he/she can choose which levels, feats and skills to keep, but he/she can't choose to keep a feat or class whose prerequisites has given up.

nonsi
2013-10-22, 08:16 AM
I like the ending, it makes this spell a powerful retraining tool.

Yitzi
2013-10-22, 10:27 AM
Depends what you mean by "balanced".

If you mean "compare to the strongest other level 9 wizard spells", then it's balanced or even underpowered

If you mean "compare a wizard who has this to the average character of the same level", then it's overpowered, but could be fixed (at least to the point where any more imbalance is on the side of mundanes being underpowered) by increasing the casting time substantially. (Something like this is best* used in cases where a large casting time isn't such a downside anyway.)

*Read: Most interestingly, i.e. in the way that is best for the game as a whole.

Clistenes
2013-10-22, 12:13 PM
Depends what you mean by "balanced".

If you mean "compare to the strongest other level 9 wizard spells", then it's balanced or even underpowered

If you mean "compare a wizard who has this to the average character of the same level", then it's overpowered, but could be fixed (at least to the point where any more imbalance is on the side of mundanes being underpowered) by increasing the casting time substantially. (Something like this is best* used in cases where a large casting time isn't such a downside anyway.)

*Read: Most interestingly, i.e. in the way that is best for the game as a whole.

Would it be better if I replaced:

Components: V, S, M.
Material Component: *Some stuff worth 100 - 500 gp* (like Programmed Amnesia).
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)?

OzymandiasX
2013-10-22, 03:00 PM
I like the increased casting time to 10 minutes, as I think this works better as a non-combat spell.

Clistenes
2013-10-22, 04:19 PM
I like the increased casting time to 10 minutes, as I think this works better as a non-combat spell.

Well, the idea is to have a way to make people forget knowledge you absolutely need lost, like making people forget where the Theoparts of Tharizdun or the Soul Totem of Desayeus are. Also to erase excedenly traumatic events (like being tortured by demons) or just to make some people forget things that can get you into REAL trouble (like making the princess forget that you Disintegrated the Doppleganger that was pretending to be her dad).

All those are non-evil uses of a memory-erasing spell, but Programmed Memory is too easy to supress (being a permanent effect, and not instantaneous anything that supress mind-affecting effects will allow the target to recover his/her memories), and the other memory-altering spells are kind of weak.

The only really effective one is Mindrape, but it's Evil which could present a problem for some character classes/builds.

TuggyNE
2013-10-22, 05:48 PM
Would it be better if I replaced:

Components: V, S, M.
Material Component: *Some stuff worth 100 - 500 gp* (like Programmed Amnesia).
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)?

Yeah, that's fine, although the material component doesn't really matter all that much. (500 gp is just about peanuts at level 17, it just means you have to take an hour to actually buy the component ahead of time instead of automatically having it on hand.)