Outsiders: Which are the best to play?

[Xuldarinar]

Strictly an academic question.
Aside from native outsiders, what outsiders (can, could, do) work well as player characters?

[Demonic_Spoon]

Strictly an academic question.
Aside from native outsiders, what outsiders (can, could, do) work well as player characters?

Level 20 Monk

Solars seem like they would work well.

[CRtwenty]

Hound Archons are pretty good, they can fit in pretty well with a Good Aligned Party.

[Xuldarinar]

Are cambions any good? (I had just remembered them, a demon with an "as characters" section)

[Andezzar]

Aren't Cambions just a subset of Half-Fiends?

[Manly Man]

I've always liked ghaele eladrin, though bralani are more manageable (lower HD means less hassle for making a good build). If I could find a DM that would allow homebrew, I'd totally go for the monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9212463&postcount=10) that was made on this site for ghaeles. The Valkyries from Tome of Battle would be cool to have as well, also with preference to the monster class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9771437&postcount=1154).

[Xuldarinar]

Aren't Cambions just a subset of Half-Fiends?

As described in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits:



Although the term “cambion” is often applied to any human- oid half-fiend, a true cambion springs from a union between a powerful tanar’ri father and a planetouched mother—usually a tiefling.


Statistically, cambions are demons.
Technically, they are at least half-demon (You could have one that is half demon, half aasimar.. but the stats are still the same).

Marquis and baron cambions, which have better stat bonuses and a higher LA, are the children of a demon lord/prince and a female (humanoid) half-fiend.

[Spore]

I am looked forward to the first one to admit to have played a lantern archon cleric :D

On all seriousness I think templated humanoids work best. They blend in if they want. They do not have insanely high racial HD. I have a certain dislike for mixing PCs from evil and good aligned planes. "No, Timmy, you can't play a half celestial half demonic half minotaur halforc." Good lord, the nerve of some people. Stick to ONE motif maybe add a little twist if that motif is too generic (like elven wizard...).

Still personally I would've loved to play a half celestial character. You know taking the concept of "guardian angel" ripping it out of the metaphors and playing it as a character. Maybe even with the job to protect a pious character, a cleric or to guide a mislead soul.

[Thurbane]

I'm very fond of the Lumi, especially if LA buyoff is on the table.

[Yuki Akuma]

I have always been a fan of Coures, but that's just me. They're not very powerful, I just think they're awesome.

Their LA kinda hurts and can't be entirely bought off pre-epic, but eh~

[Andezzar]

I'm very fond of the Lumi, especially if LA buyoff is on the table.What are those? I have never heard of them.

[CRtwenty]

Actually now that I think about it. I had a Babau Rogue/Assassin as a reoccuring Villian in one of my games. He could easily have fit into an Evil party.

[Demonic_Spoon]

What are those? I have never heard of them.

Neckless positive energy humanoid outsiders iirc.

[Andezzar]

Actually now that I think about it. I had a Babau Rogue/Assassin as a reoccuring Villian in one of my games. He could easily have fit into an Evil party.Only if he doesn't plan on much social interaction, or has a hat of disguise. Hmm I just found out the Babau are not suitable for PCs but Vrocks are :smallconfused:


Neckless positive energy humanoid outsiders iirc.That does not help me much. Where can I find them?

[Thurbane]

That does not help me much. Where can I find them?
MM3, p.98.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83020.jpg

[WinWin]

Maug.

Warforged are just an inferior copy.

[Karnith]

I'm a big fan of Neraphim (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040613a&page=2), both because they're LA +0 and because Battletoads (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrTyxwDBwpo).

[Snowbluff]

Trumpet Archon's class from Savage Species makes a mean cleric in E6.

[123456789blaaa]

Dretch are surprisingly viable. Just raise the Int a bit when putting points into the Point Buy. They're small though, so that's an annoyance if you want to build a melee character using them.

[Psyren]

The only LA 0 outsider in 3.5 I believe is the Neraph, and they are not Native on the material plane.

Pathfinder powered up the base races such that there are a bevy native outsiders to choose from there - Aasimars, Tieflings, Ifrits, Undines, Oreads, Sylphs, Fetchlings, and Sulis are all LA 0.

[Andezzar]

The only LA 0 outsider in 3.5 I believe is the Neraph, and they are not Native on the material plane.Ther is the Otherworldly feat which makes Elves, Deep Imaskari, or Ashane outsiders. It is a faerun specific regional feat though.

[Psyren]

Star Elves - and yes, I did forget about that, thanks. I think they messed up regional feats in the 3.5 conversion though.

[Andezzar]

How so? I found making things like Alertness regional much more stupid than what they did in 3.5.

[ArqArturo]

Well, The Genasi are always fun to create.

[Andezzar]

Anything specific that makes them more fun to create than the other planetouched?

[ArqArturo]

Mostly just the flavor, especially with the dozens of variations of genasi planetouched that exists in FR. Who knew djinns and elementals were as frisky as humans?.

[Andezzar]

Yeah yeah a hot girl might be really dangerous.

[Raimun]

I guess any kind that is not planning to die that often... as in more than once.

Remember that Outsiders can't be resurrected. :smalltongue:

Apart from that, playing a full blooded Outsider must be a challenge. There's not much room for moral ambiguity, since an Outsider is a minor personification of a cosmic ideal.

In other words, someone playing an angel would have to be at least as Good as the most devoted paladin, most likely even more so. I've always got the impression that the personal life of an Outsider comes second to the cosmic ideal they uphold and they would die before compromising.

[Yuki Akuma]

I guess any kind that is not planning to die that often... as in more than once.

Remember that Outsiders can't be resurrected. :smalltongue:

Limited Wish works. So does True Resurrection.

Edit:

Apart from that, playing a full blooded Outsider must be a challenge. There's not much room for moral ambiguity, since an Outsider is a minor personification of a cosmic ideal.

In other words, someone playing an angel would have to be at least as Good as the most devoted paladin, most likely even more so. I've always got the impression that the personal life of an Outsider comes second to the cosmic ideal they uphold and they would die before compromising.

As for this part... Outsiders can change alignments. It's rare, but it happens - where do you think fallen angels like Erinyes came from?

They can even change alignments without becoming another sort of Outsider, as Eludecia (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a) the Lawful Good Succubus Paladin shows us.

[hamishspence]

There's even a spell dedicated to it- Revive Outsider.

[Psyren]

Note that even if they do change alignments, they still count as their subtyped alignment for the purposes of effects. A LG Succubus Paladin will detect as both Chaotic Evil and Lawful Good.

[Novawurmson]

Note that in PF, native outsiders can be resurrected (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders):


An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

[hamishspence]

Note that in PF, native outsiders can be resurrected (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders):

The same is true of 3.5:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#nativeSubtype


Native Subtype
A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

[Novawurmson]

The same is true of 3.5:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#nativeSubtype


Native Subtype
A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

Jeez, did I leave my ignorance just lying around in the open like that?

/ashamed. I was a bad DM in 3.5. I didn't really read the books word-for-word, cover-to-cover until PF.

[Xuldarinar]

Jeez, did I leave my ignorance just lying around in the open like that?

/ashamed. I was a bad DM in 3.5. I didn't really read the books word-for-word, cover-to-cover until PF.

We all have our blind spots.

[Xuldarinar]

Question: Is there any reason an evil outsider could not be good aligned, even so far as taking exalted feats, even using the feats granted by racial hit die? Alternatively, could a good outsider be evil aligned, even so far as taking vile feats, possibly even using feats attained by racial HD?

Im not saying the circumstances are likely mind you, but it is a point of curiosity.

[hamishspence]

The Evil subtype specifically says that a being does not have to be of the same alignment - though it will still suffer full effect from spells etc that target this alignment.

And a Good fiend has been statted out by WotC in several versions:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

(Conversely, there's an Evil angel that retains the angel type and Good subtype, in Elder Evils).

[KillianHawkeye]

Maug.

Warforged are just an inferior copy.

That's not an Outsider, it's an extraplanar Construct.

[JaronK]

Learnean Lumi! Because death sucks, and I don't want to do it

JaronK

[Xuldarinar]

The Evil subtype specifically says that a being does not have to be of the same alignment - though it will still suffer full effect from spells etc that target this alignment.

And a Good fiend has been statted out by WotC in several versions:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

(Conversely, there's an Evil angel that retains the angel type and Good subtype, in Elder Evils).

Thank you. I thought that would be the case but I wanted to be sure.

And I am quite familiar with Eludecia, though I forgot about the angel in Elder Evils.