Suitable reward for a VoP character

[Jacque]

Hello everyone,

I am a player in PF's Second Darkness adventure line. We stand to be rewarded for our help and the book suggests a suitable item for each character with a value around 10k. My problem is that I play a Vow of Poverty Monk/Swordsage and thus can't get an item as reward.

A wish spell to increase a stat is too expensive. What else would be useful for a VoP character and be worth around 10k?

[limejuicepowder]

As a character that has taken a vow, aren't you good with a capital G? Wouldn't the thought that you helped people be good enough? :)

I'm only half joking actually, it sounds pretty in-character to refuse the reward - or to suggest they take the reward money and donate it to a church/orphanage.

[hamishspence]

A Crafted Contingent Spell, for use in emergencies?

A spell is not technically an item, after all. And VoP doesn't prevent beneficial spells being cast on you.

[Asheram]

A wish spell to increase a stat is too expensive. What else would be useful for a VoP character and be worth around 10k?

Well, a VoP character can't own, permanently, so if it's from some powerful fellow how about a favor?

[Aharon]

A Crafted Contingent Spell, for use in emergencies?

A spell is not technically an item, after all. And VoP doesn't prevent beneficial spells being cast on you.

@hamishspence
Craft Contingent Spell is an item creation feat, though - These are supposed to be items.

I would go for non-monetary rewards - Information whoever you helped delivers to you at the right time, an NPC from the organization you helped showing up at a heated battle and helping you... Stuff that's beneficial without adding personal power.

[Vaz]

Actual benefits, perhaps, like Flight, or several other options available to Magic Item using characters. Perhaps let them choose options from Midnight Construct or Astral Construct option menus for free, or the ability to Shape a Soulmeld (and/or Bind it to a Chakra).

Perhaps give them the abilities of a Graft: a VoP could say get the benefits of Plant Grafts if they so wish (or Construct, Undead, even Aberration).

The ability to take a 1st level invocation.

Consider their entire body an Ancestral Relic which can be upgraded with numerous abilities.

Alternatively, homebrew some form of 'item meld', where they can absorb the power from an item, permanently destroying it, but gaining the benefits a limited number of times a day.

[Jacque]

I would generally agree with most of your suggestions. It seems like a perfect opportunity to establish a roleplaying connection through favors or information. It is just that we play once per 4-6 weeks and so we've agreed on sticking to the storyline of the adventure and skipping all side-events like the development of personal stories and other character developments. In the light of this, roleplaying rewards feel like no reward at all.

[awa]

Is this benefit designed to take the pcs above wealth by level or bring them to it?

Because in the latter case in theory the vow of poverty bonuses account for the new item.

[danzibr]

Actual benefits, perhaps, like Flight, or several other options available to Magic Item using characters. Perhaps let them choose options from Midnight Construct or Astral Construct option menus for free, or the ability to Shape a Soulmeld (and/or Bind it to a Chakra).

Perhaps give them the abilities of a Graft: a VoP could say get the benefits of Plant Grafts if they so wish (or Construct, Undead, even Aberration).

The ability to take a 1st level invocation.

Consider their entire body an Ancestral Relic which can be upgraded with numerous abilities.

Alternatively, homebrew some form of 'item meld', where they can absorb the power from an item, permanently destroying it, but gaining the benefits a limited number of times a day.
I like this one a lot.

[Jacque]

Is this benefit designed to take the pcs above wealth by level or bring them to it?

Because in the latter case in theory the vow of poverty bonuses account for the new item.

I actually haven't considered this. I'm quite convinced it is designed to bring us to our wealth by level as the reward isn't optional. Damn, I guess I won't get any then.

[animewatcha]

Savage progression-like process of the paragon template?

[Bromidrosis]

A permanencied spell effect or two could add up to 10k gp in value, depending on the xp -> gp conversion that your DM thinks is fair. I rather like the flavor to it as well: the character refuses material compensation, so instead the grateful caster offers up a small portion of their life force to permanently improve your character!

There's a list here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Permanency) to get you started. Enlarge person is always good on a monk, and darkvision, detect magic, and greater magic fang are all good options as well!

[hydraa]

I had a player that was playing a character with VoP and I was developing a piggy bank for him that was using the Weapon of Legacy Rules.

It could only be handled safely by some one who had taken the Vow and it provided a means for the user to designate a charity. The VoP user could then deposit his treasure from adventuring into it and have it transferred to the charity (somewhat like a ring gate).

Some of the unlockable items in the WoL would provide bonus to Skills and other stuff that the VOP character could not normally enhance.

[Nerd-o-rama]

By the book, the character should insist his share of the reward be distributed to a charity/charities of his choice.

That's liable to result in a pretty big roleplaying bonus to everyone's opinion of him, though.

[Winds of Nagual]

I ran a game where the reward was a tattoo that mimicked the effect of an Ioun Stone. Possible?

[Telonius]

By the book, the character should insist his share of the reward be distributed to a charity/charities of his choice.

That's liable to result in a pretty big roleplaying bonus to everyone's opinion of him, though.

I played a VoP character in Shackled City, where this was basically the outcome. By the end of the campaign, he'd given so much gold to the Lantern Street Orphanage that it had expanded to open up schools across the kingdom providing free education to the street urchins.

[HalfQuart]

I think the point of VoP is that you don't get rewards like this and instead get the specified features given in BoED. I think getting a mechanical benefit via a tattoo, graft, soulmeld, etc. would be dodging the intent of the VoP. As such, I think the benefits should be entirely role-playing... either the ideas of getting a favor or something or just the RP benefit you get for giving away a ton of money.

[Coidzor]

Well, I suppose letting them upgrade to a VoP fix might count as a reward.

[navar100]

A donation to a charitable cause of your choice.

A pledge from the benefactor to help/pitch in to a charitable cause of your choice.

Giving you a spell-like or supernatural ability to help you in your never ending quest to save the world. Flight has been mentioned.

[Telonius]

Giving you a spell-like or supernatural ability to help you in your never ending quest to save the world. Flight has been mentioned.

"Every time quest loot is distributed, a VoPer gets its wings." :smallbiggrin:

[mregecko]

Why not free services?

"You are a national hero and may stay at any inn in our kingdom for free..."
"In honor of your kind spirit, we will provide you and your companions with one free Resurrection spell whenever you may need it."
"Let us use our resources to transport your (teleport, whatever) party to its next destination."

Things like that... I'm sure something more creative can be thought of.

[BWR]

Take the reward in cash, donate to first worthy cause you find. The local equivalent of the Salvation Army or free health care or something. Don't make a big deal of it, just hand it over.

If the DM is nice, s/he might give you some kharmic rewards, such as favorable dice rolls in bad situations, plot critical information, plot useful information, automatic successes on Diplomacy rolls, etc., a passing paladin/cleric/celestial/whatever was touched by your generosity and has vowed to help your cause for a bit, or a selfish person witnessed this and had a change of heart and started becoming a better person thanks to your example.
If not, well, you chose VoP.

[CIDE]

Alternatively, homebrew some form of 'item meld', where they can absorb the power from an item, permanently destroying it, but gaining the benefits a limited number of times a day.

There's rules for this, actually. It's in D20 Modern rather than D&D but it's one of the alternatives to cybernetics rules. It uses the cybernetics slots rather than magic item slots but that's an easy fix. The enchantment is sucked from the item and put onto "Bone Runes" that are no longer an item but part of your body.

I like your ancestral relic idea too.


I think the point of VoP is that you don't get rewards like this and instead get the specified features given in BoED. I think getting a mechanical benefit via a tattoo, graft, soulmeld, etc. would be dodging the intent of the VoP. As such, I think the benefits should be entirely role-playing... either the ideas of getting a favor or something or just the RP benefit you get for giving away a ton of money.

While you are correct it depends entirely on the game. In a low OP game VoP may actually work. In a mid-high OP game then it needs all the help it can get.

[CRtwenty]

I think the point of VoP is that you don't get rewards like this and instead get the specified features given in BoED. I think getting a mechanical benefit via a tattoo, graft, soulmeld, etc. would be dodging the intent of the VoP. As such, I think the benefits should be entirely role-playing... either the ideas of getting a favor or something or just the RP benefit you get for giving away a ton of money.

This is absolutely true. However VoP really isn't all that powerful. So I'd allow things like magical tattoos that duplicate magic items, or variations on the weapons of legacy rules for party balance.

[Gavinfoxx]

Reward:

Allow him to use one of the vow of poverty fixes.

Like this one:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4030.0

There are others.

[Jacque]

Thank you for all your suggestions. I don't think homebrews will be approved so I'll have to rule them out or at least keep those suggestions in reserve.

I thought about permanency, but its just too easy to dispel it.

I think my best option is to go the roleplayer way. As was mentioned earlier, the reward is to get us characters to our determined WBL and the abilities granted by Vow of Poverty should make up for that.

My character has died a few times and each time been reincarnated. He started as a human and then became a half-orc and is now a halfling. He will ask for a remedy to become human again - either through a wish/miracle spell or information about where he can seek further help with this problem.

[jokeaccount]

Even though this has been resolved here's my 2 cents:

As a VoP character you shouldn't try to "circumvent" the Vow requirements by taking something that is not money worthy/material. Normally you should accept your reward and immediately give it away. Do not tweak it so that it can only be applied to you only. Now on the other hand if you have died a lot and have a big power gap between yourself and the rest of the party and you need something to close that you might as well get something useful

[Hida Reju]

Well honestly the best reward for a VoP character is all role playing based.

That being said I would go with specialized training.

Since he is a Swordsage either have a master of one of his schools gift him with

A feat
A permanent buff to a stat IE a +2 Bonus to a stat of choice
More Known maneuvers or access to stance from another school he normally could not get.
Someone else has already mentioned costs for certain expensive things being waved for him like teleport to places, healing, or Resurrection.

One of my personal favorites is a free leadership cohort like a bard to chronicle the story of the great hero.

[The Insanity]

Some good template. Saint or Half-Celestial.

[Blackjackg]

Joining the chorus that says to resist the urge to give the character anything. The whole point of VoP is that the character forgoes the material rewards that the others get. It may be a bit of a letdown for the player, but if he can't handle it he shouldn't have taken VoP in the first place.

[Thurbane]

Does a mount count as an item for VoP? Maybe some kind of loyal flying mount?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Does a mount count as an item for VoP? Maybe some kind of loyal flying mount?

How's he going to feed a mount with no money? He has to beg for his own food, I don't think anyone's going to spring for his Dire Bat too.

[qwertyu63]

I'm going to chime in with those who say "give nothing". Perhaps some minor fluff benefits, but nothing too crazy. They knew what they were signing up for.

[Thurbane]

How's he going to feed a mount with no money? He has to beg for his own food, I don't think anyone's going to spring for his Dire Bat too.
Some mounts are capable of feeding themselves. :smallamused: