Second Question from a Newbie

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Ok I am being asked to ask this so if I come off not sounding too sure then you know why.

My GM is considering playing a GMPC due to us only having three players. And it really needs a 4 party to run Kingmaker.

The GMPC was a joke he threatened to put on me, a Leprechaun.
But its a CR 2 race and I was asked to see if one of you guys could figure out the Savage Progression of the Leprechaun
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/leprechaun

Sorry if this is a hassle.

[Ortesk]

-4 Str, +6 dex, + 2 Con, + 4 Int, + 4 Wis +6 Cha

40 feet movement

Small Fey

Loads of SLA, Some of which are really good

SR 9+ CL

DR: 5/Cold Iron

Basically the important parts you showed me

Take stats, that is LA 2 worthy
SR is +1
SLA +2
Type+ DR +1
Unusal Speed +1

LA +7 race, 4 racial HD. How giving is your dm

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Please recall this is for PF which I learned does not have an LA it is based off CR which is given at a 2

Does this mean they will be a level 2 character at start?
How would you split these into a progression so they could become a lvl 1, though I suppose a lvl 2 monster race as a GMPC might not throw off the entire game.

But he was asking for a progression so he could keep this all in check.

To answer he is pretty ease going. He has let a player use a Drow Noble Gunslinger before in another campaign. (I was not involved)

[Ortesk]

Please recall this is for PF which I learned does not have an LA it is based off CR which is given at a 2

Does this mean they will be a level 2 character at start?
How would you split these into a progression so they could become a lvl 1, though I suppose a lvl 2 monster race as a GMPC might not throw off the entire game.

But he was asking for a progression so he could keep this all in check.

To answer he is pretty ease going. He has let a player use a Drow Noble Gunslinger before in another campaign. (I was not involved)

Ah, PF. Well i would advise making it based off racial HD. Its PF so not really gonna be breaking the game. Its just amazing for a spell slinger build

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I just texted him and he said he would be playing it as either a Bard or Druid whichever fit the fluff and style of the creature. I was thinking a Druid but a Druid Lep would be powerful right?

So you're saying give it Fey HD for two levels?

[Ortesk]

I just texted him and he said he would be playing it as either a Bard or Druid whichever fit the fluff and style of the creature. I was thinking a Druid but a Druid Lep would be powerful right?

So you're saying give it Fey HD for two levels?

A lep Druid, kind of scary. A lep bard is fitting though and would be fun to play. I would give it fey HD for 2 levels then go bard, if your party is low op your be fine. Just dont do any crazy stuff, its a powerful race but on a bard chassis its not game breaking

[Spore]

Do it like the goblin hero that seriously saved our asses not 4 weeks ago. Make him kind of underpowered so that the heroes feel heroic though.

No one wants to be outshined by an insane leprechaun NPC all the time.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Ok so upon further texts (How the hell did people game before the invent of Text for out of game discussions with GMs?)

My GM is removing the SR and likely the DR though he is eager to keep the weakness to Cold Iron.
He would also reduce the speed to 30, since normally a Gnome (Which I guess Leps are related too) have a 20 speed so a 30 is already a bonus.

So I will run your recommendations to him.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Err here is what he sent me to post and get info on.

-2 Str, +3 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +3 Cha Lvl 1
-2, +3 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +3 Cha Lvl 2

Leprechaun Progression
Small Fey
DR 3/Cold Iron (Later DR 5/Cold Iron at lvl 2)
SR 6 (Later CR 12 at Lvl 2)

Speed: 30 ft. (+10 ft. At Lvl 2)
BAB: 1 (Later 2 at Lvl 2)
HD d6
Skills: 6+INT
Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local),
Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.

SPA (Lvl 1)
At will- Shillelagh
3/day Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Minor Image, Prestidigitation, Vetriloguism
1/day Invisibility, Color Spray, Fabricate, Minor Creation

SPA (Lvl 2)
Constant- Shillelagh
At Will - Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound (DC 13), Invisibility (Self Only), Mage Hand,
Major Imagine (DC 16, visual and auditory elements only), Prestidigitation, Ventriloquism (DC 14)
3/day Color Spray (DC 14), Fabricate (1 Cubic Foot of Material Only)
1/da Major Creation
All SLA have a Caster Level of 4; Concentration +7

Racial Skills
+4 Perception; +2 Slight of Hand (Level 1)
+8 Perception; +4 Slight of Hand (Level 2, In Total)

Special
Leprechaun Magic (SP)
When using any of its SLA to decieve, trick, or humiliate a creature (At the GM's discretion), the SLA resolves at caster level 8 rather then 4. If a Leprechaun uses its SLA in this manner,
it has a bonus of +11 on concentration checks.

Low-light vision
Proficient with all Simple Weapons
Proficient with no Armor.

[Ortesk]

Err here is what he sent me to post and get info on.

-2 Str, +3 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +3 Cha Lvl 1
-2, +3 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +3 Cha Lvl 2

Leprechaun Progression
Small Fey
DR 3/Cold Iron (Later DR 5/Cold Iron at lvl 2)
SR 6 (Later CR 12 at Lvl 2)

Speed: 30 ft. (+10 ft. At Lvl 2)
BAB: 1 (Later 2 at Lvl 2)
HD d6
Skills: 6+INT
Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local),
Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.

SPA (Lvl 1)
At will- Shillelagh
3/day Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Minor Image, Prestidigitation, Vetriloguism
1/day Invisibility, Color Spray, Fabricate, Minor Creation

SPA (Lvl 2)
Constant- Shillelagh
At Will - Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound (DC 13), Invisibility (Self Only), Mage Hand,
Major Imagine (DC 16, visual and auditory elements only), Prestidigitation, Ventriloquism (DC 14)
3/day Color Spray (DC 14), Fabricate (1 Cubic Foot of Material Only)
1/da Major Creation
All SLA have a Caster Level of 4; Concentration +7

Racial Skills
+4 Perception; +2 Slight of Hand (Level 1)
+8 Perception; +4 Slight of Hand (Level 2, In Total)

Special
Leprechaun Magic (SP)
When using any of its SLA to decieve, trick, or humiliate a creature (At the GM's discretion), the SLA resolves at caster level 8 rather then 4. If a Leprechaun uses its SLA in this manner,
it has a bonus of +11 on concentration checks.

Low-light vision
Proficient with all Simple Weapons
Proficient with no Armor.

Fey have 2/3 BAB so at level 2 BAB is 1

The skills are from HD level and ability mod, not bonuses. Assign skills as you deem, but no bonuses

The stats are best to keep at even integers, odd is a bad idea and frowned on. Take full str hit at level 1, gain the rest in full at level 1, save charisma for level 2 and gain full then

the rest looks good, tell him very nice work for doing it without knowing the system

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Ok he did tell me why he did the BAB thing, the Leprechaun says it has a 2 BAB at a CR of 2 so he just split that.

The Perception and Slight of Hands are credited as Racial Modifiers

I will inform him, thanks for the help.

[Ortesk]

Ok he did tell me why he did the BAB thing, the Leprechaun says it has a 2 BAB at a CR of 2 so he just split that.

The Perception and Slight of Hands are credited as Racial Modifiers

I will inform him, thanks for the help.

The lep also has 4 HD as a cr of 2

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Very true, so how should he handle those?

[Ortesk]

Very true, so how should he handle those?

Look in the beastiary and find what fey get for HD. It seems BAB as a wizard so +1 at 2 HD, 6+ Int in skill points, and good Ref/Will saves if my memory of fey is decent

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Well I mean the HD for the Lep having 4 at a CR 2

You are correct I looked it up on the SRD

So the Racial Modifier on the Lep's page shouldn't exist when he makes it?

[Ortesk]

Well I mean the HD for the Lep having 4 at a CR 2

You are correct I looked it up on the SRD

So the Racial Modifier on the Lep's page shouldn't exist when he makes it?

If you make progression 2 levels, which i think is PF norm, then you would have 2 HD not four (I know you would be theoretically weaker, but you would choose stats and feats whereas base lep is basic and built like crud) i wouldnt give the racial mods because its really good as is, you get a bonus to 5 stats and if you play a caster strength isnt a big deal. and small size is +1 to attack and ac. Which is nice

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Alright I see how that goes I will edit his version and send it back to him.

[Ortesk]

Alright I see how that goes I will edit his version and send it back to him.

Is this a character hes gonna play as a dmpc or your gonna play? Curious who is getting this sweet of a deal lol

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Its gonna start as a GMPC kinda thing, but he did joke if I didn't find a class and Race combo I liked I was gonna get stuck with it.

My GF is playing and she just loves Celtic and Irish stuff so she would flip... oh that poor Leprechaun. Think Elmira from Tiny Toons

[Ortesk]

Its gonna start as a GMPC kinda thing, but he did joke if I didn't find a class and Race combo I liked I was gonna get stuck with it.

My GF is playing and she just loves Celtic and Irish stuff so she would flip... oh that poor Leprechaun. Think Elmira from Tiny Toons

I would take it in a heart beat. Go a caster class and own

[DwarfInTheFlask]

What caster would you be for Kingmaker?

[Ortesk]

What caster would you be for Kingmaker?

Kingmakers is about bandits, barbarians, defending your land as you grow it right? I dont play modules so i only know gist of things

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Kinda from what I know of it yeah.

I know you get this mandate to explore the stolen lands and clean them out and that you basically begin clearing out bandits and monsters and the like, before building the kingdom.

[Ortesk]

Kinda from what I know of it yeah.

I know you get this mandate to explore the stolen lands and clean them out and that you basically begin clearing out bandits and monsters and the like, before building the kingdom.

Play a bard, how much 3.5 is allowed?

[DwarfInTheFlask]

He is gonna let in some, so long as it's not super cheesy

Also I thought of maybe a Magus, with the focus on the Club or Staff refluffed as a Shillelagh

[Ortesk]

He is gonna let in some, so long as it's not super cheesy

Also I thought of maybe a Magus, with the focus on the Club or Staff refluffed as a Shillelagh

Bard or an enchanter build wouldnt be bad.

Druid would be fantastic

Ask him if you can play beguiler. Your fill skill monkey and be an enchanter. Also whats party like

[DwarfInTheFlask]

A Witch
A Samurai/Magus (Kensai) he has not decided yet.
Me (Still undecided but I play a Bard in my only other game *Noob*)

And the GMPC if our party needs it (Likely a Cleric at the Fort to heal us between big battles, he has done this with out 3.5 group)

[Ortesk]

A Witch
A Samurai/Magus (Kensai) he has not decided yet.
Me (Still undecided but I play a Bard in my only other game *Noob*)

And the GMPC if our party needs it (Likely a Cleric at the Fort to heal us between big battles, he has done this with out 3.5 group)

Play a druid then. Tell other guy run with Magus. You can be healer and melee guy

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I was considering the Druid as well.

The Beguiler seems very cool though (Thanks for that bug in my ear bud)

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/redcaps-corner-pathfinder/wikis/beguiler < This seem like a good conversion.

[Ortesk]

I was considering the Druid as well.

The Beguiler seems very cool though (Thanks for that bug in my ear bud)

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/redcaps-corner-pathfinder/wikis/beguiler < This seem like a good conversion.

Beguiler is good, its a bard/rogue gish and would rock there, but then again druid would be awesome. Although purely honest how optimized do you want to be

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I dont want to be the center of attention, my GF is playing an Elf Witch at least I think she is using Elf. But the Witch is a Tier 1 with Slumber Hex and according to her that will rock.

So I don't mind being the party face, I usually play the Bard so I am getting used to that and I guess Diplo is BIG in the later half of Kingmaker.

[JusticeZero]

My GM is considering playing a GMPC due to us only having three players..
Ugh, bad juju. Make it a player run support at least.

[Ortesk]

I dont want to be the center of attention, my GF is playing an Elf Witch at least I think she is using Elf. But the Witch is a Tier 1 with Slumber Hex and according to her that will rock.

So I don't mind being the party face, I usually play the Bard so I am getting used to that and I guess Diplo is BIG in the later half of Kingmaker.

Go Bard, focus enchantment. The enemies in kingmaker suck at will saves and you can do some damage if you play well

[DwarfInTheFlask]

He probably would if one of us offered. We likely will take the character on after we get a lay of the land and the handle on the PF system (All relatively newcomers to it) me and my GF are new, her brother the other player has had experience with system so less likely but he is playing the Samurai or Kensai Magus where as she is playing the Witch, which might take a bit more time becoming accustom to it.

Also he has GMPCed for us/them before, normally a support or healer focused character. GMPCs can do well if the GM doesn't make themselves the star.

[Ortesk]

He probably would if one of us offered. We likely will take the character on after we get a lay of the land and the handle on the PF system (All relatively newcomers to it) me and my GF are new, her brother the other player has had experience with system so less likely but he is playing the Samurai or Kensai Magus where as she is playing the Witch, which might take a bit more time becoming accustom to it.

Also he has GMPCed for us/them before, normally a support or healer focused character. GMPCs can do well if the GM doesn't make themselves the star.

Your GM seems like a good enough guy, but you know him better than us. I would go bard or beguiler if i were you, If her brother needs help building a tank i can help him also

[DwarfInTheFlask]

He is the most experienced one of us, he normally plays martial, his fave is Warblade and the TOB classes, he should be fine but I will pass it along.

I am gonna go with Beguiler, because its new and interesting to me at least.

But do I play it straight from 3.5 or Convert it? The Spell list is different from all the threads I have googled on it.

[Ortesk]

He is the most experienced one of us, he normally plays martial, his fave is Warblade and the TOB classes, he should be fine but I will pass it along.

I am gonna go with Beguiler, because its new and interesting to me at least.

But do I play it straight from 3.5 or Convert it? The Spell list is different from all the threads I have googled on it.

Ask your DM whats he wants to do. I would check PF for updated spells and use them first. I would do level 0 spells at will, if beguiler has them

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I would assume so, the checking for the updated spells. I hear they did away with a lot of save or suck spells and those kind of spells might not exist anymore.

I will post on the Homebrew for intel on Homebrew or Conversions people have seen or made.

Although the 5 spells from the Wizard/Sorc Spell list over 20 levels is not much.

[Ortesk]

I would assume so, the checking for the updated spells. I hear they did away with a lot of save or suck spells and those kind of spells might not exist anymore.

I will post on the Homebrew for intel on Homebrew or Conversions people have seen or made.

Although the 5 spells from the Wizard/Sorc Spell list over 20 levels is not much.

Beguiler is a very focused class. In a kingmaker scenario it will be great if played well

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I will try to find a handbook, and thanks so very much.