Least Favorite Crossovers

[Masonicon]

What's your least favorite crossovers?

here's mine: Mega-crossover between everything with this twist: certain media names are treated differently from the rest of media names(usually as result of treating things like Folkores, Religions, Mytholgies, and fringe theories as fiction instead of real life) often for the reason anyone that has Powers other than 'Mundane' and/or PIS Powers that aren't New Powers as Plot Demands (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NewPowersAsThePlotDemands) are can't be considered people/human, even when those with powers other than mundane ones are just as human as everyone else, this also makes Power upgrade forbidden, and/or this Match-up (http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=936514)

what do you think about my least favorite crossover?

[AstralFire]

I don't understand your example at all.

As a general rule, I dislike most crossovers. Even most crossovers within a comic universe, with the exception of team titles or characters who are long-established to have some sort of relationship within that shared universe.

[Traab]

My least favorite crossovers are the ones where they toss a character from one universe into say, a video game, and then proceed to go through the entire normal storyline with no real changes other than perhaps a romance and a few snappy one liners. God that is just so stupid and pointless. Only slightly better are the mary sue crossovers where that one character proceeds to roflstomp his or her way through the story line. Somehow knowing exactly what to do at every step of the way.

My other least favorite crossover is the ones that make no sense. The justification for it is so weak that you have to literally blank the entire scene from your mind and pretend that something else happened instead. As one example, a naruto/xmen crossover. In this one, gambit is in konoha because reasons when he sees naruto getting attacked as a child and saves him. Within an hour, sarutobi has agreed to let this stranger take naruto from the village on nothing but the spoken promise to bring him back in 10 years to become a ninja. Not only that, he proceeds to hand gambit freaking REAMS of ninja scrolls, training techniques, jutsus, etc etc etc. Including stuff from the forbidden scroll like, surprise surprise, shadow clones.

Seriously. Thats all there is to it. "Sure foreigner I have never met before and know nothing about, you can take our village's jinchuriki to a far away land I have never heard of since you pinkie swore to bring him back. Here, take all my villages secret techniques and training methods too! Dont forget to write!"

[Masonicon]

I don't understand your example at all.

Why you don't understand My Example? maybe just because I finds my own example of Least Favorite crossovers can mind-rapes me to death from even merely thinking about it

[AstralFire]

Why you don't understand My Example? maybe just because I finds my own example of Least Favorite crossovers can mind-rapes me to death from even merely thinking about it

I mean this in the nicest possible way: Is English your second language? Because the way you structure complex sentences is a little odd, and I can't understand what you're driving at.

[Masonicon]

I mean this in the nicest possible way: Is English your second language?
yes!!!!!!!!!!!

[AstralFire]

Mega-crossover between everything with this twist: certain media names are treated differently from the rest of media names (usually as result of treating things like Folkores, Religions, Mytholgies, and fringe theories as fiction instead of real life) often for the reason anyone that has Powers other than 'Mundane' and/or PIS Powers that aren't New Powers as Plot Demands are can't be considered people/human, even when those with powers other than mundane ones are just as human as everyone else, this also makes Power upgrade forbidden, and/or this Match-up

Okay! These are the parts that I have the hardest time understanding. The grammar mostly works, but the words and phrases you're choosing in translation don't quite fit.

[IdleMuse]

My least favourite crossover is Kingdom Hearts :smallconfused:

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Anything involving Touhou and/or My Little Pony. Just something about those two franchises that makes me itch whenever I see them combined with other things.

[BWR]

Pointless crossovers, when the worlds are just too different to make any sort of story work. MLP/SW would be a good example.

And DW/ST (http://i42.tinypic.com/66kkzq.jpg)

[Ravens_cry]

I have to agree. From what I understand, Doctor Who thrives on its campy, low budget, very British Britishness, while Star Trek goes for a rather different tone.
It's almost as silly as the TNG/X-Men crossover. Yes, that was a thing, and yes, I've read it. No, it wasn't very good. Yes, the obvious remarks on the resemblance between Xavier and Picard are mentioned, though it should be noted this happened before the X-Men films.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I won't touch Fallout: Equestria with a ten-foot pole, does that count?

Of things I've actually read/played, I hate things that are lazy and don't consider all the fun implications of two settings combined together (or develop whatever story led to Merlin and Jafar having a wizard duel or whatever, even if the settings aren't combined)

[AstralFire]

Am I the only one who does not understand the OP? Because everyone else is just carrying on...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Am I the only one who does not understand the OP? Because everyone else is just carrying on...

I only understood the subject line. That's straightforward enough.

[Hyena]

Gotta hate crossovering Superman with anyone. For the reasons obvious.

[Traab]

Gotta hate crossovering Superman with anyone. For the reasons obvious.

I actually read a superman cross with btvs. Sorta. It was one of those halloween costume fics. Xander was slowly powering up like a kryptonian and it was having various interesting effects. You could also go with smallville and plop him in a magic heavy universe, or marvel. Im actually reading that right now. Smallville clark gets invited to join the xmen evolution cartoon crowd. Its actually on book 2 or 3 right now and is pretty cool. Yes he can roflstomp his way through a lot, but there are still a few who can match him at this stage.

[Masonicon]

Okay! These are the parts that I have the hardest time understanding. The grammar mostly works, but the words and phrases you're choosing in translation don't quite fit.
in what you're try to understand, PIS is stands for "Plot Induced Stupidity"

[AstralFire]

Okay, I think I may be able to follow part of this.

You don't like very large crossovers where "mundane" people functionally have superpowers thanks to plot, even though we're informed that they're mundane, meaning that the "mundanes" such as Batman perform better than they logically should.

Is that accurate?

[Masonicon]

Okay, I think I may be able to follow part of this.

You don't like very large crossovers where "mundane" people functionally have superpowers thanks to plot, even though we're informed that they're mundane, meaning that the "mundanes" such as Batman perform better than they logically should.

Is that accurate?
Not really, what I tries to say is: anyone with any actual Superpowers are can't be considered people/human, even when they're just as human as everyone else

[AstralFire]

Not really, what I tries to say is: anyone with any actual Superpowers are can't be considered people/human, even when they're just as human as everyone else

Could you give an example?

[Masonicon]

Could you give an example?
This: http://www.pokegirls.org/

and here's one(if not most) of the golden example of my personal least favorite crossovers/match-up: http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=936514

[AstralFire]

...Okay, I give up. I don't understand that thread, and I... really don't enjoy reading this fanfic. Sorry.

[Masonicon]

My least favourite crossover is Kingdom Hearts :smallconfused:
Probably because it's fans treats it as Yaoi Anime whilst ignoring it's Disney Characters and bashing it's female characters just because of Organization 13?

[Legato Endless]

I have to agree. From what I understand, Doctor Who thrives on its campy, low budget, very British Britishness, while Star Trek goes for a rather different tone.
It's almost as silly as the TNG/X-Men crossover. Yes, that was a thing, and yes, I've read it. No, it wasn't very good. Yes, the obvious remarks on the resemblance between Xavier and Picard are mentioned, though it should be noted this happened before the X-Men films.

Was it as bad as the Star Trek TOS/Legion of Superheroes cross over? Spock and Brainiac have a bromance, Vandel Savage fuses with Flint the immortal and wipes out some time streams...somehow, Q gives a shameless Deus ex machina, and the last 15 pages before the climax is spent hammering the Aesop that humans shouldn't go around conquering aliens. It's far duller than I'm making it sound.


Not really, what I tries to say is: anyone with any actual Superpowers are can't be considered people/human, even when they're just as human as everyone else

Edit:
Opening that fanfic was like browsing the necronomicon. The pain is not easily forgotten. That cross over..made about as much sense.

Okay, OP, do you mean you dislike when people who happen to have powers are treated as subhuman, or when a cross over reduces them to simply being nothing but their abilities?

It sounds like you dislike when characters are objectified for the author's purposes, but that's just my best guess.

[Masonicon]

Opening that fanfic was like browsing the necronomicon. The pain is not easily forgotten. That cross over..made about as much sense.

Okay, OP, do you mean you dislike when people who happen to have powers are treated as subhuman, or when a cross over reduces them to simply being nothing but their abilities?

This is what exactly I mean: everything/everyone that has any Superhuman and/or Supernatural Powers are treated as Non-human, no matter how human they are(unless when the mechanics of those with powers are like this: at least all of his/her powers are from strictly technological Power Armor and Super Gadgets)

[Legato Endless]

This is what exactly I mean: everything/everyone that has any Superhuman and/or Supernatural Powers are treated as Non-human, no matter how human they are(unless when the mechanics of those with powers are like this: at least all of his/her powers are from strictly technological Power Armor and Super Gadgets)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsANonHuman

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism

So, Cross overs that involve subjects like this? Especially when said characters are the same as everyone else besides their powers. :smallconfused:

[Masonicon]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatMeasureIsANonHuman

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism

So, Cross overs that involve subjects like this? :smallconfused:
Yes, but with this twist: Everyone and everything that above Type 0 and 1 in Super Weight (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperWeight) scale(unless when it's those that cheats into above Type 0 and 1 in Super Weight with 100% external and technological equipments that aren't Toku Style) are all treated as Non-Human, often by the (Crossover) verse's unique Laws of Physics

this may also prevents Characters from getting Power Upgrade that has to do with crossovers

[Hyena]

I've thought that I understand the purpose of the thread. Now I'm not so arrogant.

[erikun]

Well, yes. For the topic in the OP, I do find it annoying when characters are retroactively given psudo-superpowers on the basis of being "really smart" or some such mundane excuses. Something along the lines of, say, Sherlock Holmes having the ability to see through illusions because he's a really good detective, or Mike Tyson able to punch through steel doors because he's a boxer. Or for anime, most slice-of-life shows getting put into Naruto and capable of learning/beating the super ninjitsu there. Or most of the Superman/Batman crossovers, where Batman can beat half a dozen super-powered world destroyers "because he's really smart and knows martial arts."

I'm not saying you can't have that sort of crossover, but there needs to be some reason for the super powered character to interact with the normal in a regular setting.

[Logic]

This thread reminds me of Amalgam comics (the limited run in the late/mid-90s where DC and Marvel did a brief crossover, only to make a new universe where characters literally melded and an entirely new universe was created.

One of the better cross-overs, if you ask me, especially since many of the Amalgam characters were pretty cool and/or properly silly.

Spider-Man (Ben Reilly) melded with Superboy to become Spiderboy
Batman and Wolverine became Dark Claw
Superman and Captain America became Super-Soldier
Storm and Wonder Woman became Amazon

This is where the crossovers WORKED.

One of the few examples I can recall that I enjoyed.

[Ebon_Drake]

This seems like a good excuse to repost Chris Sims' excellent OOTS-inspired Infinite Crisis in 30 seconds (http://the-isb.blogspot.co.uk/2006/05/infinite-crisis-in-thirty-seconds.html) and Civil War in 30 seconds (http://the-isb.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/civil-war-in-30-seconds.html), both far more entertaining than the actual company-wide crossover events they were inspired by.

[Masonicon]

Well, yes. For the topic in the OP, I do find it annoying when characters are retroactively given psudo-superpowers on the basis of being "really smart" or some such mundane excuses. Something along the lines of, say, Sherlock Holmes having the ability to see through illusions because he's a really good detective, or Mike Tyson able to punch through steel doors because he's a boxer. Or for anime, most slice-of-life shows getting put into Naruto and capable of learning/beating the super ninjitsu there. Or most of the Superman/Batman crossovers, where Batman can beat half a dozen super-powered world destroyers "because he's really smart and knows martial arts."

I'm not saying you can't have that sort of crossover, but there needs to be some reason for the super powered character to interact with the normal in a regular setting.
this is somewhat more tolerable regarding people don't always need Meta-excuses to goes beyond Normal Human, as long as their performance are in the meta-region and this doesn't need to attributed to the Plot Induced Stupidity

and actually what annoys me most is: this policy: "if it aren't Normal person, then it's Nonhuman"

[Metahuman1]

My least favourite crossover is Kingdom Hearts :smallconfused:

This. I will never forgive that game dragging my beloved FF7 into it's mess.

[Axolotl]

My least favourite crossover was WildCats/Aliens crossover. For those of you who don't know there was a comic called Stormwatch in the 90's it was typical image fare until one day Warren Ellis took over. He gave it cool new characters, tightened the focus and created great genre defining plot arcs. However at some point apparently he got board of all this and when he wrote WildCats/Aliens (which the astute reader will notice is crossover of two things that aren't Stormwatch) he decided to cut off the Stormwatch mid story arc and killed off almost all the characters having most of the survivors retire and a few other recycled for his fancy new series.

Needless to say it's an anticlimactic end to a great series.

[Ravens_cry]

Was it as bad as the Star Trek TOS/Legion of Superheroes cross over? Spock and Brainiac have a bromance, Vandel Savage fuses with Flint the immortal and wipes out some time streams...somehow, Q gives a shameless Deus ex machina, and the last 15 pages before the climax is spent hammering the Aesop that humans shouldn't go around conquering aliens. It's far duller than I'm making it sound.



Edit:
Opening that fanfic was like browsing the necronomicon. The pain is not easily forgotten. That cross over..made about as much sense.

This wasn't fan-fiction, this was an actual licensed novel, so it probably had better editing at least. Linkara covered an earlier Star Trek X-men cross over, but this one was a comic and was with TOS crew.
A surprisingly good fanfic crossover was Clancy's Ryan-verse and the Battletech universe.

[Legato Endless]

this is somewhat more tolerable regarding people don't always need Meta-excuses to goes beyond Normal Human, as long as their performance are in the meta-region and this doesn't need to attributed to the Plot Induced Stupidity

and actually what annoys me most is: this policy: "if it aren't Normal person, then it's Nonhuman"

Could you elaborate what plot induced stupidity has to do with it?

Also, what do you mean by meta-region?

[Masonicon]

Also, what do you mean by meta-region?
I mean when it comes to Physical Strength, it means Strength range at least 1 ton range

[Masonicon]

and the crossover scenario that I dislike most since I finds it makes staring at Cthulhu or reading Necronomicon looks like enjoying heavenly things is this: Imperial Guardsmen(Barring augmented ones), Happy Tree Friends Animals that aren't Flippy, Splendid, or Buddhist Monkey, those that (undebatably) Exist In Real life, and human Characters from Pokemon Anime, and Digimon Anime vs Kingdom Hearts Characters, Naruto Characters, Animated Teen Titans Characters, ATLA Characters, Harry Potter Characters, TV's Heroes, the rest of 40k characters and factions, Mario main Characters, Sonic main Characters, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic characters, Adam Jensen(Fully Augmented), Yugioh Characters, and so on

[MLai]

It seems the OP's problem doesn't really have anything to do with crossovers. He just dislikes stories where people with superpowers are discriminated against and seen as "not human", i.e. X-men.

Now that it's mentioned, I would say my least favorite crossover is also Kingdom Hearts. The two verses just do not mesh aesthetically and thematically. What does Disney, outside of a select few characters, have to do with angsty anime teenagers with big swords trying to save worlds? And where in the typical Square RPG storyline is there any room for comedic anthropomorphic animals as main characters? This is why fanfics can cut out all the Disney characters and still tell their Kingdom Hearts story.

[Eldan]

Heh. It's always interesting how different Europeans and Americans see Disney. For me, as a child, Disney was always about the long Fantasy, SciFi and superhero stories they published. So, taking that, it would mesh pretty well. Of course, they went with the American versions.

[GrayGriffin]

So...am I the only person here who likes almost any crossover? Especially when there's a large tone difference? Because it's kind of fascinating to see how characters from franchises with largely different worldviews get along. I love seeing optimism and cynicism clash!

As for the OP's question, do you hate supernatural characters being treated as nonhuman all the time? What if that's part of the whole plot? I mean, there's lots of ways you could interpret that. Are they only legally considered nonhuman, with most of them being treated like any other human? Do most people consider them nonhuman, but at the same time they're trying to fight for their own rights and recognition? Personally, I think this is something that can be explored pretty well.

[Traab]

So...am I the only person here who likes almost any crossover? Especially when there's a large tone difference? Because it's kind of fascinating to see how characters from franchises with largely different worldviews get along. I love seeing optimism and cynicism clash!

As for the OP's question, do you hate supernatural characters being treated as nonhuman all the time? What if that's part of the whole plot? I mean, there's lots of ways you could interpret that. Are they only legally considered nonhuman, with most of them being treated like any other human? Do most people consider them nonhuman, but at the same time they're trying to fight for their own rights and recognition? Personally, I think this is something that can be explored pretty well.

I have no problem with different worldviews clashing. My main problem is with crossovers that get no explanation, just, all of a sudden, its gimli in new york! Why? Shut up and read, thats why! I will read virtually any crossover so long as the author takes advantage of it to change things. If you put a T-1000 in harry potter it better have a fricking effect on the canon storyline. If you put the Xenomorphs from Aliens into Naruto, it had better change how the story ends in some meaningful way. Otherwise why bother?

[LordChaos13]

My least favourite crossover is a harry potter/Star Wars fanfiction where Lily Potter is somehow a Human from coruscant and harry got taken there to be trained by Ben kenobi in place of anakin...somehow? At the age of 1
Also apparently Palpatine waits an extra decade or so before unleashing the Clone Wars in this version


This seems like a good excuse to repost Chris Sims' excellent OOTS-inspired Infinite Crisis in 30 seconds (http://the-isb.blogspot.co.uk/2006/05/infinite-crisis-in-thirty-seconds.html) and Civil War in 30 seconds (http://the-isb.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/civil-war-in-30-seconds.html), both far more entertaining than the actual company-wide crossover events they were inspired by.

Also hawkman

[GrayGriffin]

I have no problem with different worldviews clashing. My main problem is with crossovers that get no explanation, just, all of a sudden, its gimli in new york! Why? Shut up and read, thats why! I will read virtually any crossover so long as the author takes advantage of it to change things. If you put a T-1000 in harry potter it better have a fricking effect on the canon storyline. If you put the Xenomorphs from Aliens into Naruto, it had better change how the story ends in some meaningful way. Otherwise why bother?

Oh yeah, I agree, there should be some justification for it. Although I'm not too bothered by what exactly the justification is, as long as the author does interesting things with it. Although I could also understand if they just wanted to write the T-1000 rampaging through Hogwarts as a one-shot...but at the same time I feel that would probably be something to keep more personal. *shrugs*

[Masonicon]

It seems the OP's problem doesn't really have anything to do with crossovers. He just dislikes stories where people with superpowers are discriminated against and seen as "not human", i.e. X-men.

Now that it's mentioned, I would say my least favorite crossover is also Kingdom Hearts. The two verses just do not mesh aesthetically and thematically. What does Disney, outside of a select few characters, have to do with angsty anime teenagers with big swords trying to save worlds? And where in the typical Square RPG storyline is there any room for comedic anthropomorphic animals as main characters? This is why fanfics can cut out all the Disney characters and still tell their Kingdom Hearts story.
actually, I'm not talking about X-Men because in X-men(and possibly Marvel Comics in General), Superpowered people that aren't Mutant(i.e. those that gets their superpowers from bitten by radioactive spider, got hit by cosmic ray storm, using technologies like Genetic Engineering and Nanotechnology, or even studying Esoteric techniques instead of born with it) are still treated as Human by varying degree. what I'm talking is: all sorts of Superpowered beings(with sole exception of those that all of their Superhuman abilities are comes from strictly technological Power Armor and Super Gadgets that aren't tokusatsu-style) are all treated as non-human all the time, this allows evil corporation like ACME Corporation in my Ani-Toonspiracy project sees all sorts of Superpowered Beings(including even gods) as "Meat Animals" or worse, that evil corp wants those Superpowered beings dead like Dodo

oh yeah, how about Hiro Nakamura plays Kingdom Hearts where he sees his favorite FF characters teams up with some talking anthro animals?

[Traab]

Oh yeah, I agree, there should be some justification for it. Although I'm not too bothered by what exactly the justification is, as long as the author does interesting things with it. Although I could also understand if they just wanted to write the T-1000 rampaging through Hogwarts as a one-shot...but at the same time I feel that would probably be something to keep more personal. *shrugs*

Too me it has to make sense. One shot crack fics are excluded of course, they are supposed to be stupid/silly/funny/crazy. But in a real story, you have to make SENSE for why this happened. I read a naruto/one piece crossover. Explanation? The world is big, the elemental nations are just one part of the world, lets go sailing! That made sense. "Hi, I am a total stranger you have known for a half hour, give me a young naruto to take far far away and tons of secret techniques and training methods. Trust me, in 10 years we will come back" does not.

[MLai]

Disney published long-form adventure and sci-fi stories in Europe?? :smalleek:
Why the heck didn't we get any of that sweet action?!? :smallmad:

[Eldan]

Hey, I don't know. We don't get any American comics over here. Instead we get the Franco-Belgian stuff and the German-Italian Disney comics where they take Disney characters and dump them into pretty much whatever story they can think of. Including some very obvious rip-offs, actually. I.e. the one where Goofy suddenly was an off-brand Jedi called a Space Master and they ran through the entire Star Wars storyline.

Honestly, the German and Italian (and a few other companies) Disney comics are produced by more or less wholly independent publishers who just licensed the names and characters.

[Masonicon]

Guys! let's talks about my own Least Favorite Crossover: the Match-up that I posts as spoiler

[Nerd-o-rama]

Guys! let's talks about my own Least Favorite Crossover: the Match-up that I posts as spoiler

No.

Comic book superhero crossovers are pretty bad, not because of their concept, but because unless they're their own superhero teamup book (Justice League of America, Cable and Deadpool) they're always done as sales stunts with little thought put into them, usually ending in a universe reboot if it's DC and complete inanity if it's Marvel.

[Masonicon]

No.

Comic book superhero crossovers are pretty bad, not because of their concept, but because unless they're their own superhero teamup book (Justice League of America, Cable and Deadpool) they're always done as sales stunts with little thought put into them, usually ending in a universe reboot if it's DC and complete inanity if it's Marvel.
I'm not talking about Comic Book Superhero Crossovers, I' m just talking about the match-up that I posts as Spoiler

[LordChaos13]

That crossover is not the point of the title, the title says we come and post about all our least fav crossovers.


Like a Danny Phantom / Harry Potter crossover where DP gets deaged s he became a ghost at 10...Despite not changing personality at all. All so he can get his letter for a scottish school despite there being clearly others in the world like the french Beauxbatons, so American is likely.

[Masonicon]

That crossover is not the point of the title, the title says we come and post about all our least fav crossovers.


including my personal least favorite crossover which includes that's match-up

[LordChaos13]

Your least favourite crossover isnt a real crossover, its just strange.
As far as I can tell its this:

Everywhere is combined, from star wars to star trek, Charles Xavier to Green Lanterns
Everyone that has abnormal powers is inhuman or treated as such

So it's Xmen: All Supers?

[Masonicon]

Your least favourite crossover isnt a real crossover, its just strange.
As far as I can tell its this:

Everywhere is combined, from star wars to star trek, Charles Xavier to Green Lanterns
Everyone that has abnormal powers is inhuman or treated as such

So it's Xmen: All Supers?
My Least favorite crossover is Crossover between everything including my Favorite series(instead of X-men and Star Trek as my personal least favorite crossover are surprisingly have nothing to do with Star Trek or X-men at least for most part) for it's main main crossovers with this twist for it's scenario: Everyone across the Omniverse that has abilities beyond Normal Humans is Non-Human and/or treated as such often by laws of physics

and what I don't like is: when this twist applies to even Main Characters(which prevents them from being more powerful than their canon selves)

plus, this is exactly the (Crossover) scenario that I personally detests: Imperial Guardsmen(Barring augmented ones), Happy Tree Friends Animals that aren't Flippy, Splendid, or Buddhist Monkey, those that (undebatably) Exist In Real life, and human Characters from Pokemon Anime, and Digimon Anime vs Kingdom Hearts Characters, Naruto Characters, Animated Teen Titans Characters, ATLA Characters, Harry Potter Characters, TV's Heroes, the rest of 40k characters and factions, Mario main Characters, Sonic main Characters, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic characters, Adam Jensen(Fully Augmented), Yugioh Characters, and so on


with this rule: no mons allowed(this includes Pokemon, Digimon, and maybe monsters that Yugioh characters uses)

[Legato Endless]

Disney published long-form adventure and sci-fi stories in Europe?? :smalleek:
Why the heck didn't we get any of that sweet action?!? :smallmad:

The Dark Age of Animation happened. Several decades of limited childish output by studios from the 50s to 80s imbedded the notion into the American consciousness that animation was primarily the fare of children. Since such content is so easily dismissed by the average consumer, Disney doesn't seriously bother trying to market it on this side of the Atlantic. This also helps fuel the common misconception that all comic book story lines feature superheroes.

:smallannoyed:

[Wardog]

I'm still slightly confused about what your complaint is.

I gather it is something to do with people with "natural" superpowers being treated as non-human, but I'm not clear if you mean:

a) You dislike characters discriminating against naturaly superpowered people and considering them non-human.

b) Or you dislike the author/plot considering naturaly superpowered people to be them non-human.

b*) The above, and this somehow affecting the rules that the universe works by.


And I'm not clear what either of those have to do with your other complaint about:
plus, this is exactly the (Crossover) scenario that I personally detests:
Imperial Guardsmen(Barring augmented ones), Happy Tree Friends Animals that aren't Flippy, Splendid, or Buddhist Monkey, those that (undebatably) Exist In Real life, and human Characters from Pokemon Anime, and Digimon Anime vs Kingdom Hearts Characters, Naruto Characters, Animated Teen Titans Characters, ATLA Characters, Harry Potter Characters, TV's Heroes, the rest of 40k characters and factions, Mario main Characters, Sonic main Characters, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic characters, Adam Jensen(Fully Augmented), Yugioh Characters, and so on


with this rule:
Rule for the above match-up
no mons allowed(this includes Pokemon, Digimon, and maybe monsters that Yugioh characters uses)
Which as far as I can make out seems to a criticism that "it has a whole load of characters from multiple fictions, including people from Pokemon, but not the pokemon themselves".

Is that what you're saying?

[Finn Solomon]

The Dimensions of Time crossover between Doctor Who and Eastenders for the 1993 charity special was just confusing and relied too much on audiences going 'Hey, it's that guy!'

[Eldan]

The Dark Age of Animation happened. Several decades of limited childish output by studios from the 50s to 80s imbedded the notion into the American consciousness that animation was primarily the fare of children. Since such content is so easily dismissed by the average consumer, Disney doesn't seriously bother trying to market it on this side of the Atlantic. This also helps fuel the common misconception that all comic book story lines feature superheroes.

:smallannoyed:

To be fair, the stories I'm talking about were clearly for children. I think I quit reading them before I turned 12.

[Masonicon]

I'm still slightly confused about what your complaint is.

I gather it is something to do with people with "natural" superpowers being treated as non-human, but I'm not clear if you mean:

a) You dislike characters discriminating against naturaly superpowered people and considering them non-human.

b) Or you dislike the author/plot considering naturaly superpowered people to be them non-human.

b*) The above, and this somehow affecting the rules that the universe works by.


And I'm not clear what either of those have to do with your other complaint about:
plus, this is exactly the (Crossover) scenario that I personally detests:
Imperial Guardsmen(Barring augmented ones), Happy Tree Friends Animals that aren't Flippy, Splendid, or Buddhist Monkey, those that (undebatably) Exist In Real life, and human Characters from Pokemon Anime, and Digimon Anime vs Kingdom Hearts Characters, Naruto Characters, Animated Teen Titans Characters, ATLA Characters, Harry Potter Characters, TV's Heroes, the rest of 40k characters and factions, Mario main Characters, Sonic main Characters, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic characters, Adam Jensen(Fully Augmented), Yugioh Characters, and so on


with this rule:
Rule for the above match-up
no mons allowed(this includes Pokemon, Digimon, and maybe monsters that Yugioh characters uses)
Which as far as I can make out seems to a criticism that "it has a whole load of characters from multiple fictions, including people from Pokemon, but not the pokemon themselves".

Is that what you're saying?
Here's what exactly I want to say: things that treats anyone with superpowers that their superpowers are from anything other than powered armor(unless requires it's user to be augmented) as non-humans are somehow affecting the rules of Mega-Crossover universe and this allows us to have the match-up that I complaints over: it makes certain characters(preferably everyone from certain verses) deader than Master Chief in Factpile mis-matches for the reasons that mind-rapes me to death

and even when my Project does have people that sees all sorts of Superpowered beings(unless when all of their powers are comes from high-tech exoskeleton) as non-humans, at least in my Project they don't affects the rules of the verse where my project sets

[Pokonic]

My Least favorite crossover is Crossover between everything including my Favorite series(instead of X-men and Star Trek as my personal least favorite crossover are surprisingly have nothing to do with Star Trek or X-men at least for most part) for it's main main crossovers with this twist for it's scenario: Everyone across the Omniverse that has abilities beyond Normal Humans is Non-Human and/or treated as such often by laws of physics

and what I don't like is: when this twist applies to even Main Characters(which prevents them from being more powerful than their canon selves)

plus, this is exactly the (Crossover) scenario that I personally detests: Imperial Guardsmen(Barring augmented ones), Happy Tree Friends Animals that aren't Flippy, Splendid, or Buddhist Monkey, those that (undebatably) Exist In Real life, and human Characters from Pokemon Anime, and Digimon Anime vs Kingdom Hearts Characters, Naruto Characters, Animated Teen Titans Characters, ATLA Characters, Harry Potter Characters, TV's Heroes, the rest of 40k characters and factions, Mario main Characters, Sonic main Characters, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic characters, Adam Jensen(Fully Augmented), Yugioh Characters, and so on


with this rule: no mons allowed(this includes Pokemon, Digimon, and maybe monsters that Yugioh characters uses)

...I do not believe I have seen any of those in one singular crossover. Besides in your other thread, where you crossed them over. I think, I cannot really tell.

[Legato Endless]

To be fair, the stories I'm talking about were clearly for children. I think I quit reading them before I turned 12.

Indeed. To some extent, I was more ranting about the state of comics in Europe vs America than Disney in particular.

[Hyena]

I am still unsure what you intended to say.

[McNum]

I'm honestly not sure what the OP is trying to say either, but the idea of discussing least favorite crossovers, and why they don't work for me is actually an interesting idea.

I'm fairly lenient when it comes to hating crossovers, some are fun, some are well made, and it can sometimes lead to the strangest stories that work despite themselves. Like Kingdom Hearts. It's stupid, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

But if there's one crossover I've had enough of over the years, it's Star Wars crossing over with Star Trek.

I mean, I get it, the two big geek sci-fi stories crossing over should be awesome, right? Well... not really. A lot of the time it turns into "who can beat who in a fight" but while that's actually a fun thought experiment, it rarely turns into a good story. It's all about the people, not the firepower if you want to do it well.

Star Trek is, basically, a sci-fi version of the golden age of discovery. Let's set sail and explore the universe! And it's good at that, some of the best Star trek comes from what they find and how if affects the story as a whole. It would be nothing without the crew of the Enterprise (or focus ship of the story) and their interactions, though.

Star Wars, on the other hand, is your basic coming of age, good versus evil tale only with spaceships and lasers. It's very self-contained, but the movies are basically a story about the Skywalker family and how their issues and battles helped shape the galaxy. The spinoff focus on other characters, yes, but that's still all they do. Focus on the characters.

So why do the crossovers so often turn into machines vs. machines? I don't care what would happen if a Star Destroyer got into a fight with a Borg cube. Sure, pretty fireworks, probably, but... meh. You need people to cross over with people. Or take plots from one and apply to the other. I'd much rather have R2-D2 meet Data than yet another pointless space battle. Han Solo and Captain Kirk would probably be fun, too.

Still, you really have to stretch it to get something good out of crossing over these two. They're just so different in tone and scope from each other, despite both being sci-fi adventure shows and movies. There are better crossover candidates for both of these franchises.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So why do the crossovers so often turn into machines vs. machines? I don't care what would happen if a Star Destroyer got into a fight with a Borg cube. Sure, pretty fireworks, probably, but... meh. You need people to cross over with people. Or take plots from one and apply to the other. I'd much rather have R2-D2 meet Data than yet another pointless space battle. Han Solo and Captain Kirk would probably be fun, too.

Because to nerds, the only indicator of the relative quality of a work of fiction is "who would win in a fight".

[Raimun]

I'm fine with crossovers featuring people from a shared universe/continuity. That makes sense and doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. If they live in the same world, they could meet at some point. Especially if they fight crime.

The rest is just pointless. I imagine they are made by people who like both series and for some reason decide, for example, that having Captain Picard meet My Little Ponies would be somehow awesome or how cool it would be if John McClane met the Carebears.

I can never see the logic (or any sense) behind such decisions.

[Eldan]

I just think there can be something exceedingly clever about a crossover that merges two universes and puts some thought into how that would work.

[McNum]

I'm fine with crossovers featuring people from a shared universe/continuity. That makes sense and doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. If they live in the same world, they could meet at some point. Especially if they fight crime.

The rest is just pointless. I imagine they are made by people who like both series and for some reason decide, for example, that having Captain Picard meet My Little Ponies would be somehow awesome or how cool it would be if John McClane met the Carebears.

I can never see the logic (or any sense) behind such decisions.
Die Hard with Care Bears? Um... why do I want to read that?

My Little Pony crosses over with nearly everything. Take a characters hairstyle and turn it into a mane, and poof. Instant crossover. But Picard wouldn't meet the ponies, anyway, they're not warp-capable. Prime Directive and all that. They'd just be a footnote in the exploration log. "Planet exhibits sentient lifeforms of an equine nature. Observe, but do not make contact as per the Prime Directive."

There, I made a Star Trek/MLP crossover. Unless Picard has a really good reason to, he'd never meet them in person. And yet Trek/Ponies still makes more sense than crossing it with Star Wars.

[BWR]

A MLP/SW crossover could work, so long as it lasted about a paragraph to the effect of "Admiral Motti tested the firepower of his fleet on the unsuspecting planet below. The equine sentients were an affront to intelligent life everywhere and died as their planet's surface was burned down to the mantle."

[Nerd-o-rama]

Kirk would totally go down and hang out with the ponies, though. If only to watch Spock and McCoy's heads explode simultaneously.

[McNum]

Kirk would totally go down and hang out with the ponies, though. If only to watch Spock and McCoy's heads explode simultaneously.
And by "hang out with" you mean...? It's not like he hasn't done worse already.

There is also the matter of Discord possibly being Q. I mean, he was made to be Q, but as a dragon-pony-thing. And, let's be honest, it would be a very Q thing to do to go mess with Princess Celestia when Picard is otherwise occupied. Same archetype of character those two.

Trek/Ponies works with many different angles, really. Probably not as insane a crossover as one might think.

[AstralFire]

Insane settings accommodate sane ones well. Vice-versa is the issue.

[Nerd-o-rama]

And by "hang out with" you mean...? It's not like he hasn't done worse already.

There are children and Bronies on this board. I don't think either of those groups need to be thinking about things like that.

[GrayGriffin]

I'm fine with crossovers featuring people from a shared universe/continuity. That makes sense and doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. If they live in the same world, they could meet at some point. Especially if they fight crime.

The rest is just pointless. I imagine they are made by people who like both series and for some reason decide, for example, that having Captain Picard meet My Little Ponies would be somehow awesome or how cool it would be if John McClane met the Carebears.

I can never see the logic (or any sense) behind such decisions.

Um...like I said above, to see conflict in ideologies? I mean, MLP is a super-optimistic show where Friendship is literally a source of power. What do you get when you cross that over with stories that are somewhat more cynical? Heck, what do you get when you cross that over with stories where the good guys can't always win? That's what fascinates me about crossovers a lot of the time.

[Masonicon]

Die Hard with Care Bears? Um... why do I want to read that?

My Little Pony crosses over with nearly everything. Take a characters hairstyle and turn it into a mane, and poof. Instant crossover. But Picard wouldn't meet the ponies, anyway, they're not warp-capable. Prime Directive and all that. They'd just be a footnote in the exploration log. "Planet exhibits sentient lifeforms of an equine nature. Observe, but do not make contact as per the Prime Directive."

There, I made a Star Trek/MLP crossover. Unless Picard has a really good reason to, he'd never meet them in person. And yet Trek/Ponies still makes more sense than crossing it with Star Wars.
How about MLP and Warhammer Crossover with the twist: where we uses Earlier Generations of MLP instead of Friendship is Magic for MLP while we uses Warhammer Fantasy instead of 40k for Warhammer installment in this crossover?

[Traab]

How about MLP and Warhammer Crossover with the twist: where we uses Earlier Generations of MLP instead of Friendship is Magic for MLP while we uses Warhammer Fantasy instead of 40k for Warhammer installment in this crossover?

Any crossover can work if you have a sufficient justification and its well written. Its just a lot harder with ones that are such a huge gap. Superman crossed with harry potter for example would be almost mind breakingly stupid and pointless. You would have to come up with a real reason why superman cant grab voldemort, then hurl him into the sun before the noseless freak could blink. Meaning even with other horcruxes being left, his spirit is currently 8 minutes away from earth traveling at the speed of light, which he doesnt. I would imagine moving at a solid "jog" of 5 mph nonstop he might make it back to earth in time for the sun to swell into a red giant and destroy his soul anchors anyways. :p

[Masonicon]

Another thing that may has to do with my personal least favorite crossovers: http://nijihamu-can.deviantart.com/art/No-Super-Form-Plz-120484263?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Anijihamu-can&qo=446

[Guancyto]

I'm happy to see that the thread hijack is official now.

My pet peeve in crossovers is anything with Warhammer 40k. Yes, we know, your favorite setting is deliberately as over-the-top as possible, the details of which you can enumerate encyclopedically. That does not make injecting it elsewhere automatically interesting.

[MLai]

I agree! TARA SIM TOTALLY DOES NOT NEED A SUPER FORM!!! :smalltongue:

I'm fine with crossovers featuring people from a shared universe/continuity. That makes sense and doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. If they live in the same world, they could meet at some point. Especially if they fight crime..
I think your statement should be amended to say "I'm fine with crossovers featuring ppl who could share a universe/continuity."
For example Capcom Street Fighters and SNK King Of Fighters can easily cross over and have an awesome storyline. That they don't have an awesome storyline is simply because Capcom and SNK no longer care about fighting game storylines. But look up the fanfic Nightmare Symbiosis and you can see how it can be done right.
Hell, even Aliens and Predator can have an awesome storyline. Hollywood just doesn't know how to do it. The negative perception of crossovers has more to do with the amount of crap that receives widespread attention, compared to the amount of pure gold that goes under the radar.

[BWR]

The original AvP comic was great, even if the later ones got progressively worse. Still, there were a few interesting stories. The movies were disappointment.

[Traab]

I agree! TARA SIM TOTALLY DOES NOT NEED A SUPER FORM!!! :smalltongue:

I think your statement should be amended to say "I'm fine with crossovers featuring ppl who could share a universe/continuity."
For example Capcom Street Fighters and SNK King Of Fighters can easily cross over and have an awesome storyline. That they don't have an awesome storyline is simply because Capcom and SNK no longer care about fighting game storylines. But look up the fanfic Nightmare Symbiosis and you can see how it can be done right.
Hell, even Aliens and Predator can have an awesome storyline. Hollywood just doesn't know how to do it. The negative perception of crossovers has more to do with the amount of crap that receives widespread attention, compared to the amount of pure gold that goes under the radar.

Oh god, dont even talk about film crossovers. They are like video games based off of movies. They are cheap, rushed out, and shoddily made, because studios know the name alone is enough to bring in customers. Well, in the case of the games, they are shoddily made and rushed because they have to come out around the same time as the film and it needs to match the movie more or less, so time is short, but the end result is the same.

[Comet]

Kingdom Hearts is terrible

Hey!
Kingdom Hearts has King Mickey in it.
True, the melodramatic young adults and their increasingly mind-boggling adventures I could take or leave and the Disney worlds are by and large just window shopping, but King Mickey is and remains a complete badass.

Just wanted to, you know, put that out there. The little guy took a physical piece of a crumbling world-barrier and made it his steed as he travels the multiverse, being all mysterious and heroic every step of the way.

[Arbane]

There, I made a Star Trek/MLP crossover. Unless Picard has a really good reason to, he'd never meet them in person.


http://derpicdn.net/img/2012/1/17/654/medium.png


How about MLP and Warhammer Crossover with the twist: where we uses Earlier Generations of MLP instead of Friendship is Magic for MLP while we uses Warhammer Fantasy instead of 40k for Warhammer installment in this crossover?

The ponies probably wouldn't even notice the difference. From the sheer number of Evil Overlords, ancient doom devices, weird curses, and horrible monsters the old MLP shows had, someone made a decent argument that 'Dream Valley' was actually Mordor during a time when the vegetation had grown back. :smallbiggrin:

[Aotrs Commander]

http://derpicdn.net/img/2012/1/17/654/medium.png

Sign of good writing: when you automatically read it in the character's voices.

Also pahahahahahahaha!

[Rosstin]

I'm fine with crossovers featuring people from a shared universe/continuity. That makes sense and doesn't break the suspension of disbelief. If they live in the same world, they could meet at some point. Especially if they fight crime.

The rest is just pointless. I imagine they are made by people who like both series and for some reason decide, for example, that having Captain Picard meet My Little Ponies would be somehow awesome or how cool it would be if John McClane met the Carebears.

I can never see the logic (or any sense) behind such decisions.

Agreed. The very idea of a crossover is basically campy and terrible.

It can be fun, it can be well-written. But this is DESPITE its nature as a crossover.

I'm not stating that as an absolute rule. But it's a pretty good general one.

[BWR]

My little warhammer: friendship is heresy (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=149862)

[Nerd-o-rama]

My little warhammer: friendship is heresy (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=149862)

+10 points for the name, minus one million and no clickthrough from me for stardestroyer.net.

[Masonicon]

I agree! TARA SIM TOTALLY DOES NOT NEED A SUPER FORM!!! :smalltongue:

now that's my personal pet peeve: whatever people did Mega-Crossover between everything, they treats certain verses differently from the rest of the verses for this reason: in some verses, you can only allowed to be Normal Person(likely because they takes No Transhumanism Allowed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoTranshumanismAllowed) to logical extreme(when Transhumanism means any method of getting superpowers that aren't wearing manually-worn Powered armor that don't requires it's user augmented)) and this may allows us to have Match-up I complaints over

[MLai]

http://derpicdn.net/img/2012/1/17/654/medium.png
Wow, this I wanna see. :smallbiggrin:
Geordi's gonna be best friends with Twilight cuz his mark includes a book.
Once Pinkie notices Data, she's gonna make him her new mission.

now that's my personal pet peeve: whatever people did Mega-Crossover between everything, they treats certain verses differently from the rest of the verses for this reason: in some verses, you can only allowed to be Normal Person(likely because they takes No Transhumanism Allowed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoTranshumanismAllowed) to logical extreme(when Transhumanism means any method of getting superpowers that aren't wearing manually-worn Powered armor that don't requires it's user augmented)) and this may allows us to have Match-up I complaints over
This is often a good idea, because different verses have different power levels, and yet the story the fanfic author wants to tell doesn't center on a conflict between those power levels but rather a conflict/interaction between the characters. Wildly disparate level of abilities interfere with plot possibilities.
That's why Superman must be exposed to a red sun when he's stuck on a planet with xenomorphs. Otherwise the comic has no point in existing.

[Tavar]

Agreed. The very idea of a crossover is basically campy and terrible.

It can be fun, it can be well-written. But this is DESPITE its nature as a crossover.

I'm not stating that as an absolute rule. But it's a pretty good general one.

Nah. I'd say the vast majority of ideas aren't good or bad. Only the execution. Of said ideas.

Unless you're not including the Sturgeon rule regarding such things(ie, 90% of everything is terrible, what matters is the easy of entry/publication), in which case you're right, but that's not incredibly useful.

[Masonicon]

This is often a good idea, because different verses have different power levels, and yet the story the fanfic author wants to tell doesn't center on a conflict between those power levels but rather a conflict/interaction between the characters. Wildly disparate level of abilities interfere with plot possibilities.
That's why Superman must be exposed to a red sun when he's stuck on a planet with xenomorphs. Otherwise the comic has no point in existing.
and that's why I often favors making official-made characters that I uses in my Project more powerful than their canon selves(aka giving them power upgrades)

[Arbane]

That's why Superman must be exposed to a red sun when he's stuck on a planet with xenomorphs. Otherwise the comic has no point in existing.

Conversely, when DC had a "Predator vs JLA" story, they had Super-Predators.

It was... bad.

[McNum]

Alien vs. Batman might have merit. The Xenomorphs definitely pose a danger to Bats... if they can catch him.

But Batman is one of those universal crossover characters, anyway. You can put Batman into almost any setting and he'd work out from sheer force of character. He'd stick out more in some settings than others, of course.

I actually can't think of any setting Batman wouldn't make if not a good story, then at least an entertaining one if crossed with.

[Eldan]

Of course, Batman is all over the place in terms of both personality and power level so much, you can just pick the Batman you need.

Batman in Mass Effect? Time for the Bat Power Armour. Batman in Sherlock Holmes? World's Greatest Detective, no gadgets needed. Batman and the Powerpuff Girls? The Brave and the Bold Batman. Batman in Cyberpunk? Dark Knight trilogy Batman with some help from Oracle. Batman in Warhammer 40k? The Dark Knight Returns Batman is dark enough for that.

And so on.

[McNum]

The Brave and the Bold actually DID have a Batman/Sherlock Holmes crossover and it was awesome.

It had one of the best lines of the show just as Batman was about to travel back to the present.
Holmes: "Wait, I must know. How did you know who I was?"
Batman: "Everyone knows who you are. You're the World's Greatest Detective."

That's how you end that crossover perfectly. :smallsmile:

[Eldan]

Oh yeah. I forgot that one.

[Nourjan]

This is got to be one of the weird threads where the derails both makes more sense and more relevant to the thread title than the thread starter had intended.

[Traab]

Alien vs. Batman might have merit. The Xenomorphs definitely pose a danger to Bats... if they can catch him.

But Batman is one of those universal crossover characters, anyway. You can put Batman into almost any setting and he'd work out from sheer force of character. He'd stick out more in some settings than others, of course.

I actually can't think of any setting Batman wouldn't make if not a good story, then at least an entertaining one if crossed with.

Batman/Lion King Hmm, actually, while not a good fit, it probably could work under entertaining at least. Especially since now im picturing him looking like the robin williams bat from Fern Gully.

[Hyena]

- I swear, Simba was trampled to death by antilopes!
- THENWHEREISTHEBODY?! WHERISIMBA?! WHEREISHE?! WHEREISHE. WHEREISIMBA?!

[Eldan]

Hyenas are a superstitious and cowardly lot.

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131030/23w33sr4.png

[Masonicon]

Everybody, let's discuss my personal least favorite crossovers: what do you think about Match-up that I complaints over?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Everybody, let's discuss my personal least favorite crossovers: what do you think about Match-up that I complaints over?

I don't care!

[Masonicon]

I don't care!
Why?????????

[Ravian]

Why?????????

Because we don't understand what you're complaining about!

All I'm getting is that you don't like it when super powered individuals (except for people in suits like Iron Man) are treated as something other than human by other groups in a crossover. Ok but I don't see where this happens, why you don't like it, and why it makes for a bad crossover.

Of course the primary reason why we can't understand us is that you just keep on repeating the same statement over and over again instead of clarifying. And then when others ignore you you respond with the same old cry for attention.

I understand that you're English probably isn't the best, but if you're trying to make a point, you need to make sure that others can clearly understand your complaints.

[Hyena]

Hyenas are a superstitious and cowardly lot.
No, we're not. Also, why is Mufasa dressed up as the Batgirl?

Yes, the OP is pretty hard to understand. Perhaps, if he spoke on his native language and there was somebody who happened to also speak it..?

[Eldan]

That's Simba as Robin, I just suck at drawing :smalltongue:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Or maybe just named what he was talking about so we could go look it up?

It sounds dull and pretentious, though, I can agree with the OP on that.

[Legato Endless]

That's Simba as Robin, I just suck at drawing :smalltongue:

Parody cross overs that don't involve characters meeting each other, but rather have one set of characters acting out as another set do tend to work better in general, perhaps because their goals are less ambitious, and a spoof requires less continuity logic.

So if Simba is Robin, what's the rest of cast portraying?

[Masonicon]

Because we don't understand what you're complaining about!

All I'm getting is that you don't like it when super powered individuals (except for people in suits like Iron Man) are treated as something other than human by other groups in a crossover. Ok but I don't see where this happens, why you don't like it, and why it makes for a bad crossover.

Of course the primary reason why we can't understand us is that you just keep on repeating the same statement over and over again instead of clarifying. And then when others ignore you you respond with the same old cry for attention.

I understand that you're English probably isn't the best, but if you're trying to make a point, you need to make sure that others can clearly understand your complaints.
here's where I sees what Superpowered beings that aren't people in powered suits treated as nonhuman: some mega-crossovers that some people did(preferably ones that involves my favorite series) though if you're insists that there's no crossovers that treats all sorts of Superpowered beings that aren't guys in powered suits as non human, this already happens in Pokemon Anime(preferably more recent seasons), I don't like it for the reason that better not spoken here, and it makes bad crossovers because it's not only promotes inferiority complex(obviously)

[Eldan]

Parody cross overs that don't involve characters meeting each other, but rather have one set of characters acting out as another set do tend to work better in general, perhaps because their goals are less ambitious, and a spoof requires less continuity logic.

So if Simba is Robin, what's the rest of cast portraying?

Simba could be either Robin or Batman. He saw his parents killed, after all. Scar... I don't know. He's no Joker and I don't know the other villains all that well. Al Ghul, maybe.
If Simba's Robin, wouldn't Timon and Pumba be Batman? They train him.

[Nerd-o-rama]

here's where I sees what Superpowered beings that aren't people in powered suits treated as nonhuman: some mega-crossovers that some people did(preferably ones that involves my favorite series) though if you're insists that there's no crossovers that treats all sorts of Superpowered beings that aren't guys in powered suits as non human, this already happens in Pokemon Anime(preferably more recent seasons), I don't like it for the reason that better not spoken here, and it makes bad crossovers because it's not only promotes inferiority complex(obviously)

Can you please just give us like a title, or an author, or something other than vague references to "oh there's stuff that does X, Y, and Z which I don't like"?

Also the Pokémon anime doesn't have any superpowered humans, does it? The point of the setting is rather specialized superpowered creatures of several hundred other species.

[Legato Endless]

Also the Pokémon anime doesn't have any superpowered humans, does it? The point of the setting is rather specialized superpowered creatures of several hundred other species.

Mostly, but Pokemon is an urban fantasy.

There are spirit channelers and psychics, but fairly low key and not superpowered in the comic book sense of the term. Well, except for the girl with actual magic who turned Ash into a creepy ash-pikachu hybrid. It's one of the most dissonent what the hell scenes I've ever experienced.

[Masonicon]

Mostly, but Pokemon is an urban fantasy.

There are spirit channelers and psychics, but fairly low key and not superpowered in the comic book sense of the term. Well, except for the girl with actual magic who turned Ash into a creepy ash-pikachu hybrid. It's one of the most dissonent what the hell scenes I've ever experienced.
Anyway! I got an idea for crossover ship: how about shipping Yellow from Pokemon Special with Khan from Star Trek as both are golden examples of Superpowered Humans from their respective franchises, and if you're insists they're not Superpowered, they not superpowered only in the comic book sense of the term

oh yeah another least favorite crossovers of mine: South Park Fanon Imaginationland (http://southparkfanon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Characters_from_Imaginationland)(as much as I like crossovers, this is too messy even for me), Johnny Bravo x Velma pairing(another proof that even studios are bad at Crossovers), and Pooh's Adventures videos tough those least favorite crossovers of mine are at least more tolerable than Match-up that I complaints over

what do you think?

[Legato Endless]

I was talking in the context of the games and anime. The manga is unknown to me, so a protagonist with tactile healing wasn't in my mind when I think of pokemon. It appears I was mistaken anyway, apparently one of the films has Ash doing a hakoken imitiation.

[Ravian]

Anyway! I got an idea for crossover ship: how about shipping Yellow from Pokemon Special with Khan from Star Trek as both are golden examples of Superpowered Humans from their respective franchises, and if you're insists they're not Superpowered, they not superpowered only in the comic book sense of the term

oh yeah another least favorite crossovers of mine: South Park Fanon Imaginationland (http://southparkfanon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Characters_from_Imaginationland)(as much as I like crossovers, this is too messy even for me), Johnny Bravo x Velma pairing(another proof that even studios are bad at Crossovers), and Pooh's Adventures videos tough those least favorite crossovers of mine are at least more tolerable than Match-up that I complaints over

what do you think?

Ok this was slightly easier to understand. Not sure why exactly Yellow and Khan would make a good ship though, even though I have limited knowledge of either Star Trek or the Pokemon Manga some quick searches seem to show that neither have anything in common to make a viable pairing (especially the age difference).

Not familiar with most of the crossovers, though I personally liked the Imaginationland episode of South Park.

[LordChaos13]

Ok this was slightly easier to understand. Not sure why exactly Yellow and Khan would make a good ship though, even though I have limited knowledge of either Star Trek or the Pokemon Manga some quick searches seem to show that neither have anything in common to make a viable pairing (especially the age difference).

Fanfictionera view of shipping:
Are two characters in the same universe? If yes they can be shipped.
If no they can be shipped

[Hyena]

quick searches seem to show that neither have anything in common to make a viable pairing (especially the age difference).

Quick, tell me - have anything, anytime stopped the shippers in the past?

[Traab]

Mostly, but Pokemon is an urban fantasy.

There are spirit channelers and psychics, but fairly low key and not superpowered in the comic book sense of the term. Well, except for the girl with actual magic who turned Ash into a creepy ash-pikachu hybrid. It's one of the most dissonent what the hell scenes I've ever experienced.

In the original anime series, ash and friends are shrunk down and put in some creepy toyland like living dolls by a powerful psychic with mental issues. Thats. . . not low key.

[Nerd-o-rama]

what do you think?

Yellow is like twelve years old, dude.

[Tylorious]

I can't stand batman vs superman for obvious reasons, and I don't like hulk vs iron man either.

[McNum]

Eh, sometimes Iron Man has been a big enough jerk that it's fun watching him get Hulk'd. Yes. That's a verb now. Getting Hulk'd. Getting Thor'd is also okay.

On the shipping part, it's sort of a pet peeve of mine, too. Don't do a crossover just to pair up two characters who don't have anything in common. Like who'd win in a Trek/Wars fight, it is a fun thought exercise to think up crack pairings and see if they'd work out (personally, I sort of like the Solid Snake/Samus Aran thing that Super Smash Bros Brawl spawned), but it rarely makes for a good story if all you want is for two people from wildly different universes met just to hook up.

Not to say that characters from different stories never should hook up in crossovers, I mean if the chemistry is there, then why not? But it should happen as part of the story.

[Ravian]

Eh, sometimes Iron Man has been a big enough jerk that it's fun watching him get Hulk'd. Yes. That's a verb now. Getting Hulk'd. Getting Thor'd is also okay.

On the shipping part, it's sort of a pet peeve of mine, too. Don't do a crossover just to pair up two characters who don't have anything in common. Like who'd win in a Trek/Wars fight, it is a fun thought exercise to think up crack pairings and see if they'd work out (personally, I sort of like the Solid Snake/Samus Aran thing that Super Smash Bros Brawl spawned), but it rarely makes for a good story if all you want is for two people from wildly different universes met just to hook up.
Not to say that characters from different stories never should hook up in crossovers, I mean if the chemistry is there, then why not? But it should happen as part of the story.

Yeah there are only three rules I have for a ship, but they are important ones.

One: an official relationship always takes preference (except in a rare few cases, usually where the canon relationship is just too stupid for me to accept as such.)

Two: No creepy stuff, that's especially true when kids get involved. I love puppy love ships between younger characters but adding older characters will cause table flipping.

Three: There has to be something there. A weird crack-ship between two characters from separate universes that are exact opposites can be a fun joke for a few pieces of amusing (hopefully non-explicit) fanart. But if you're treating that ship as anything besides total comedy when there's no greater justification than "opposites attract" or "they both like turtles" and the migraines will begin. Chemistry people, chemistry! it's not just a class in high school! If you want me to take this thing seriously there better be a good reason for it.

[LordChaos13]

One: an official relationship always takes preference (except in a rare few cases, usually where the canon relationship is just too stupid for me to accept as such.)

I have to ask why on this one.
I can see a point in 'they are already in a relationship, deal with that' but that's more continuity. or what if it's set before a canonship or there are multiple?

An example: Hermione and Ron from the Harry Potter series
Please no flames from any camp
In the books Hermione and Ronald get together, are married and have kids. But for the majority of the book (before 6th there isnt a hint beyond 'flirting' via arguments and making Hermione cry)
If a crossover happens say in Goblet of Fire, the 4th book where Hermione semi/kinda/ambiguously dates Viktor Krum a foreign student which do you think is best:
a) Viktor and Hermione date, no exceptions they go on a date in the book
b) Ron and Hermione hook up, no exceptions
c) Either one doesn't matter, also none is possible
d) Viktor can break up with Hermione and she gets with someone else (native to her canon or anothers doesnt matter) or Ron, or no-one at all


Just curious

[Karoht]

My most favorite AND least favorite crossover, which technically doesn't even exist.
KISS saves Santa! The KISS Christmas special.

Least favorite because of it's absurdity, and the fact it doesn't actually exist.
Most favorite because of it's absurdity.

Actually, my most most favorite is Star Trek meets Xmen. It's a novel, I hear it is astonishingly good given the content, you have most of both casts sync up pretty well (Worf + Wolverine become fast friends for obvious reasons), its the kind of crossover that works exceptionally well when you really wouldn't think it ever should.

[Ravian]

I have to ask why on this one.
I can see a point in 'they are already in a relationship, deal with that' but that's more continuity. or what if it's set before a canonship or there are multiple?

An example: Hermione and Ron from the Harry Potter series
Please no flames from any camp
In the books Hermione and Ronald get together, are married and have kids. But for the majority of the book (before 6th there isnt a hint beyond 'flirting' via arguments and making Hermione cry)
If a crossover happens say in Goblet of Fire, the 4th book where Hermione semi/kinda/ambiguously dates Viktor Krum a foreign student which do you think is best:
a) Viktor and Hermione date, no exceptions they go on a date in the book
b) Ron and Hermione hook up, no exceptions
c) Either one doesn't matter, also none is possible
d) Viktor can break up with Hermione and she gets with someone else (native to her canon or anothers doesnt matter) or Ron, or no-one at all


Just curious

If it's more ambiguous I'm a little more lenient. But the rule's there mainly because I get annoyed when people outright ignore an already existing relationship solely because they think their own idea would be better.

If there are multiple official pairings (to one degree or another), like with the Hermione and Ron or Krum example you gave, then they both have some degree of validity. So out of the options I pick C. But shipping her with someone where no official relationship has been remotely implied before, like with someone like Draco Malfoy*, while ignoring the already existing relationships, just screams bad ship to me.

*Though this also is in conflict with rule three, unless they can give me a better reason than "I love nerd girl and bad boy pairings!!!1!!"

[LordChaos13]

while ignoring the already existing relationships

Is that your main problem? Cause I'm fairly sure I could write a canon relationship breakdown in every setting that doesnt have destiny, pre-existing kids as of the start of the fic and no literal soulbond/True Love
And make it make SENSE too. Thats the important bit. Every relationship has faults and weaknesses (and if canon doesnt provide enough extrapolate from known character traits) and the right circumstances can mean...:smallfurious: @ :smallfurious:


I think with a fanfic ship there are a few guidelines/rules
1: Said ship must have chemistry. Make us feel the two can bond over something
2: Do NOT ignore pre-existing relationships. Resolve that thread, it can even enrich the story with plot hooks
3: Imagine the characters doing it. Does the thought disgust you? Should the thought disgust a normal person? If yes to either question STOP WRITING!
4: Always, always, ALWAYS keep realism in mind. I dont care if it's an elf they still have emotions and act a certain way. Keep them in-character and never rush something in-fic. Romance takes time, both the readers seeing them and the characters themelves.

[GrayGriffin]

Um...not all relationships have to involve sex, you know. As someone who likes to ship interspecies pairings that occasionally involve serious species differences, I don't really think that should be an important factor as to what you ship.

[LordChaos13]

No they dont have to involve sex, but that is one reason why I added guideline

Yellow/Khan for instance would be an example where it should be applied. No interspecies thing that makes sex different from relationship, it just forces a confrontation that a relationship might get glossed over by some people, but not others(though hopefully not this case)
Ones a 12yr old poketrainer. The other a brutal genetically-modified villain well ABOVE 12.

[Traab]

I dont see any reason why any pairing cant be setup between any set of characters so long as you find a way to justify it. One of the harry potter things like irks me is the soul bond/life debt cop out. "Oh we dont need to build up a reason for them to get together, harry saved her life!" It CAN work, but I hate how many just say, "She owes a life debt and is now his concubine/wife/slave/whatever, then they fall in love because harry is awesome and sweet"

Another thing that has only recently started to bug me is levels of emotional maturity beyond reasonable. Lets take goblet of fire year harry. He is 14 years old. Do you REALLY think a 14 year old boy that has never had a girlfriend, and never even had a FRIEND until hogwarts, would be capable of forming some flawless romance with a girl? Of course not, the poor guy would be a stuttering stammering wreck, have no idea what to do or how to do it, and would likely have a massively difficult time overcoming the various ingrained responses he would have due to the treatment he got from the dursleys.

But instead so often you will read a story where harry is a masterful kisser (somehow) always know the right thing to say to make the girl fall ever deeper in love, and be able to pull off romantic stuff with ease. Oh there may be a little angst from him, but an occasional assurance from fluer/ginny/hermione/luna/daphne/tracey/the patils/susan bones/hannah abbot/lavender/the chaser on his quidditch team/randomly female blaise/deaged mcgonnagal/tonks/aged gabrielle/etc/etc/etc and then boom, he is able to fall in love, be a good boyfriend/husband, and live happily ever after. *EDIT* Forgot to include secretly human Hedwig. :smallbiggrin:

[GrayGriffin]

That's weird. The awkwardness is one of my favorite parts of developing relationships. And yeah, the "life debt" thing seems a little creepy. Just out of curiosity though, what's your opinion on "soul mates," where each person has someone they're destined to be with? I have to admit to finding such AUs interesting, at least partly for the worldbuilding.

[LordChaos13]

I only read soulbond fics if they've been Favorited by a good fanfic writer I know (such as Robst) or written by them
Otherwise I avoid because they so easily go wrong

While they can be done great, it can also be very much a copout excuse

[Ravian]

"being soulmates" definitely shouldn't be the only reason for their relationship, as that alone is just as bad as a reason as "They are my favorite characters so should totally hook up and have awesome sex!!!1!!!"

[Traab]

That's weird. The awkwardness is one of my favorite parts of developing relationships. And yeah, the "life debt" thing seems a little creepy. Just out of curiosity though, what's your opinion on "soul mates," where each person has someone they're destined to be with? I have to admit to finding such AUs interesting, at least partly for the worldbuilding.

Its not the soul mate or life debt thing per say, its the way its so often used as a lazy way to combine two people who normally wouldnt interact. Lets do an unlikely pairing, harry potter and daphne greengrass. Harry happens to rescue daphne from a deadly attack by malfoy so she has a life debt, ok, that works. A real writer then works on building up the relationship between them, using the life debt as an excuse for them to be connected long enough for a relationship to form. A lazy writer would say, "Now daphne is his slave, but its ok because harry is awesome so she falls in love with him after quietly observing from the background as he does all this awesome stuff. They kiss, (he is of course awesome at it) then eventually they make sweet passionate love where harry is a total viking god in the sack and rocks her virginal world 6 times that night then twice more the next morning." There is no build up, no basis for a relationship beyond, "Omg harry is awesome I wub him because he is awesome" its just life debt and apparently harry gives off an aura of awesome that makes women swoon.

[LordChaos13]

To be fair "Harry gives off an aura of awesome that makes girl swoon" can be a valid fic if done right...Or done so very wrong :smallbiggrin:

[GrayGriffin]

Well, there is magic, after all, so it could easily be a love spell gone wrong.

[Traab]

True, but once again, there is no reason for it. No sudden male veela, no unbound magic, no secret training by grand master of sexy sirius, just an abused boy with no real social interaction going around being awesome somehow. Basically, gary stu type stuff.

[Masonicon]

I can't stand batman vs superman for obvious reasons.
how about we uses Bale Batman(which is the weakest Batman) for the version of Batman that we uses in Batman vs Superman crossover while we uses Silver Age Superman(which is the Strongest Superman) for this Batman vs Superman crossover?

Bale Batman(aka Nolanverse Batman) vs Silver Age Superman: widest power gap when it comes to the specific version of Batman vs Superman crossover

and I can't stands Match-up that I complaints over probably for the same reason you're can't stand Batman vs Superman match-up

[Wardog]

how about we uses Bale Batman(which is the weakest Batman) for the version of Batman that we uses in Batman vs Superman crossover while we uses Silver Age Superman(which is the Strongest Superman) for this Batman vs Superman crossover?


Why? ???????????????????????????

[Masonicon]

Why? ???????????????????????????
Bale Batman(aka Nolanverse Batman) is the (Physically) Weakest Batman ever while Silver Age Superman is the strongest Superman Ever

[LordChaos13]

Bale Batman(aka Nolanverse Batman) is the (Physically) Weakest Batman ever while Silver Age Superman is the strongest Superman Ever

Right because the differences should be made even greater. Superman, especially Silver, will slaughter in any real fight

[Ravian]

Bale Batman(aka Nolanverse Batman) is the (Physically) Weakest Batman ever while Silver Age Superman is the strongest Superman Ever

That doesn't really make the crossover better, since it makes the conflict even more one-sided. Not to mention it's a complete clash of settings. Nolanverse is incredibly grim and gritty while Silver Age Supes is campy and ridiculous (not as much as Silver Age Bats, but he's close)


Actually if it was completely comedic, it would be sort of amusing to see Silver Age Superman running around Nolan's Gotham. Though not in any direct conflict with Batman. Just going around with more and more ridiculous ways to clean up Gotham, and instead making the problems worse. And all the while Batman's fending off migraines trying to deal with the overpowered well-meaning buffoon.