[PF] Need help - Destroying vampires once and for all - Spell 6 lvl or less

[duboisjf]

Any suggestion for spell or combinaison of spells to destroy vampire once for all

Wizard and cleric (me) in the party and we have opportunitiy to buy scroll before the potential battle.

I think we can't use Undeath to death cause I'm pretty sure those vampires will have more than 9HD.

Only idea right now is using Control water to flood them and using Wall of force or Wall of stone to confine them. We just need a room with a shape that suits our purpose and a height that Control water can achieve.

Any more idea ?

[Arbane]

Any suggestion for spell or combinaison of spells to destroy vampire once for all

Wizard and cleric (me) in the party and we have opportunitiy to buy scroll before the potential battle.

Plane Shift? It's a level 5 spell for clerics, and you can easily dump a vampire somewhere they will NOT be coming back from. (Good Outer Plane, Positive Elemental Plane, Plane of Fire or Water....)

[AzureKnight]

Depending on the hd of the vampire, a level 6 spell for clerics is Undeath to Death. It works as circle of death except on undead. It destroys 1d4 hd of undead per caster level max 20d4. However, it cannot slay undead exceeding more than 9hd.

[Sith_Happens]

Plane Shift? It's a level 5 spell for clerics, and you can easily dump a vampire somewhere they will NOT be coming back from. (Good Outer Plane, Positive Elemental Plane, Plane of Fire or Water....)

To be sure, pick a plane where it's always sunny.

[Ezberron]

purchase a decanter of endless water? the cleric uses his holy symbol to hold them back and then use the decanter at geyser to wash them away....

[Ortesk]

As a vampire hunter in a past campaign, let me chime in here.


1 Vampires are weak.

2 Vampires go down easy with some thought

3 double standard treasure is awesome


First thing to do: Prepare fire. dont use many BFC spells, they have gasous form and can bypass alot of things unless you make sure the spells in question affect them


Second thing to do: Cast death wards. There main threat is Neg levels, become immune

Third thing: When they die, follow the gaseous forms. They lead you to the coffin, and you can stake em and wait for day break

Lastly: The one who makes a big long winded speech, kill him in style. The book says 3 rounds of running water will kill them. So get two buddies, take turns pissing on there heads. Again, show them you are the BBEG that haunts THERE dreams

[TuggyNE]

Plane Shift? It's a level 5 spell for clerics, and you can easily dump a vampire somewhere they will NOT be coming back from. (Good Outer Plane, Positive Elemental Plane, Plane of Fire or Water....)

Not PEP. That's way too nice for undead. Free infinitely stacking temporary HP and a passive planar effect that blinds or kills living intruders? Yes please!

[Ninjaxenomorph]

How do they get temporary HP stacking from the Positive Energy Plane? I am not aware of any spell that lets them survive positive energy.

[Psyren]

How do they get temporary HP stacking from the Positive Energy Plane? I am not aware of any spell that lets them survive positive energy.

By RAW PEP does nothing harmful to undead, even though it logically should. The overheal explody effect is a fort save that does not affect objects, therefore they are immune.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Any GM with two brain cells to rub together would rule that the effects are reversed for undead. Also, nice and sunny there. If your GM does NOT have two brain cells to rub together, just see how long it survives on Elysium.
Also, how would they not get affected by the overhead effect?

[Psyren]

I agree it's illogical, but it's still RAW. So it's something to be aware of before it comes up at the table and causes arguments.



Also, how would they not get affected by the overhead effect?

I just told you that above:


Undead Type:
...
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Forgot about that one. Damn I hate undead.

[Krazzman]

Buy a +1 Alchemical Silver Dagger?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Ooh! Elemental plane of water! That might work.

[Boci]

Any GM with two brain cells to rub together would rule that the effects are reversed for undead.

I don't reverse the ruling, in fact I rather like it. It makes undead an anomaly of life, rather than the polar opposite.

[Psyren]

It's worth noting that while undead are not harmed by the Negative Energy Plane, they get no special benefit for being there either.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I don't reverse the ruling, in fact I rather like it. It makes undead an anomaly of life, rather than the polar opposite.

But the general rule in Pathfinder is that: positive energy heals people and hurts undead, and negative energy harms people and heals undead. There are exceptions, such as Dhampira (through their undead heritage) and Wayangs (masters of manipulating these energies). The negative energy plane does 1d6 damage a round... To living creatures. It's obviously negative energy damage, even if it isn't stated.

[Boci]

But the general rule in Pathfinder is that: positive energy heals people and hurts undead, and negative energy harms people and heals undead. There are exceptions, such as Dhampira (through their undead heritage) and Wayangs (masters of manipulating these energies). The negative energy plane does 1d6 damage a round... To living creatures. It's obviously negative energy damage, even if it isn't stated.

Except Psyren already seems to have noted a massive exception to that general rule.

[Psyren]

The NEP damage isn't typed. It's ridiculous, I fully agree.

Worse, major-negative-dominant gives negative levels... if you fail your fort save. Thus undead are immune to that too and get no benefit from being on the NEP.

[Boci]

The NEP damage isn't typed. It's ridiculous, I fully agree.

Worse, major-negative-dominant gives negative levels... if you fail your fort save. Thus undead are immune to that too and get no benefit from being on the NEP.

So PF took the mistake 3.5 made, and made it worse. Interesting.

[Psyren]

So PF took the mistake 3.5 made, and made it worse. Interesting.

The PF wording is identical to 3.5 so I don't see how it was made worse. Likely they copypasted that entire section without considering the implications.

[Boci]

The PF wording is identical to 3.5 so I don't see how it was made worse. Likely they copypasted that entire section without considering the implications.

So undead don't benefit from the NEP in 3.5 either? I know the PEP thingy is in both games.

[Ravenica]

I've always wondered... Does Disintegrate work? The save is applicable to objects so as a DM I've always ruled yes but I've never been in a situation where I had to try it under another DM's perview

[Psyren]

So undead don't benefit from the NEP in 3.5 either? I know the PEP thingy is in both games.

Like I said, the wording is identical. Untyped damage and fort save for neg level are in both versions.


I've always wondered... Does Disintegrate work? The save is applicable to objects so as a DM I've always ruled yes but I've never been in a situation where I had to try it under another DM's perview

Disintegrate works on objects. That's what makes it so good against undead - without a con score, their fort save is pretty easy to get around once you find something that bypasses the immunity. An example of this is the ease with which V zapped the Death Knight's un-horse. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html)

Of course, with disintegrate you run into the secondary problem of incorporeal undead.

[Ravenica]

I meant more along the lines of permanently destroying a vampire. I know the spell itself works but which takes precedence. The Disintegrates final blow or the vampires gaseous form escape? Disintegrate is not on the list of vampire weaknesses so does that ash he's been reduced to go into gaseous form and float to his coffin to regenerate? lol

[Psyren]

I would assume you reduce them to powder which then immediately turns into their gaseous form and heads for the coffin.

[Boci]

Like I said, the wording is identical. Untyped damage and fort save for neg level are in both versions.

Oh, my mistake. On a side note Thanatos grants undead on it Fast Healing 3, but its implied not stated that this is because of the minor negative energy of the layer.

[duboisjf]

Thank you all,

I will remember Plane shift as a #1 : Sending his BBEG to Positive elemental plane will freak out my DM for sure :)

Someone mentionned to follow the gaseous form : Wind walk and Locate creature should do the trick for the whole party to come along.

Maybe even easier that way because I got glory and sun domain and Quick channel feat (6d6+11 two times a round), so bringing them to mist with my channel positive energy is pretty fast and it will leave me all my spell to track them and protect against their drain.

[Diarmuid]

All in all, if you know you're going to be facing them and can prepare and mitigate the negative levels, vampires just arent that bad.

Hit them hard till they go gaseous. Then find their coffin and destroy it. Now they're dead in however long it says, I forget if its an hour or a few hours.

[Spore]

Being a nightly blood sucker? That's a paddlin' stake to the heart.

[Psyren]

Note that with an effective will save +5 higher than the base creature (+2 Wis, +4 Channel Resistance) chances are you'll only be doing half damage to most CR-appropriate vampires, especially with clerics being Cha-MAD. This isn't a very efficient strategy for taking them down and you'll be novaing through your channels to do it. Better to save them for healing and just wail on Count Chockula instead.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Unless you have the Glory domain, then they don't get channel resistance.

[Psyren]

Unless you have the Glory domain, then they don't get channel resistance.

Glory domain just increases the DC by 2. That will effectively reduce their channel resistance to +2 but it will still be there.

[Gorfnod]

To be sure, pick a plane where it's always sunny.

Is Philadelphia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Always_Sunny_in_Philadelphia) a plane?

[Psyren]

To be sure, pick a plane where it's always sunny.

Interesting idea - the PEP in Eberron, Irian the Eternal Day, has permanent sunlight. So "plane shift to the PEP" would actually kill vampires there.

[duboisjf]

Unless you have the Glory domain, then they don't get channel resistance.

It is the sun domain that deny them their channel resistance.

So Sun deny them their bonus and Glory increase DC by 2 and over this I have sacred conduit as a trait for another +1 on the DC.

And I took Improved Channel for another +2 to the DC and Extra channel ... Did I specify that we're playing Carrion Crown. This campaign is loaded with undead.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Ah, right. I took both on my Theurge magus/cleric in PFS, forgot where all the exact bonuses come from.

[Raven777]

Disintegrate works on objects. That's what makes it so good against undead - without a con score, their fort save is pretty easy to get around once you find something that bypasses the immunity. An example of this is the ease with which V zapped the Death Knight's un-horse. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html)

Of course, with disintegrate you run into the secondary problem of incorporeal undead.

PF Undead get Charisma to their Fort Save. Therefore, for several flavors of Spontaneous Caster Vampires, instead of being worsened, it is likely to go through the roof.