Best Weapon for a Mounted person?

[CyberThread]

What is the actual best weapon for a mounted person, lance seems to situtional, so that gets tossed out, and the other average weapons, tend to be the best on foot.

[ArcturusV]

How do you figure with the Lance? Pretty clear. I mean if you're mounted, you're mounted for the sake of mobility. You're not going to be standing still and trading shots. At that point all you're getting out of being mounted is a bonus to hit. It's a waste of a combat style. Whole reason to be mounted is to charge, and charge again, and wheel and charge again. Always moving, smacking people hard, etc.

At which point, yeah, Lance.

Otherwise? Composite Longbow for the Kite and Smite, using the superior mobility of being mounted to stay out of reach and keep shooting.

If you're not using the mobility, no reason to be mounted.

[Frosty]

A lance is very good. Reach. Can be held in one hand (but still get 2-handed PA bonuses, at least in Pathfinder) so you can also use a shield. If you charge, awesome damage.

The other weapon of choice on a horse is a composite longbow. Be a mongol. Have your mount move out of enemy range while you shoot them fulla arrows.

EDIT: Stalker'ed :smallbiggrin:

[Baron Malkar]

Wasn't there a specific rule that said you cant use a longbow while mounted?:smallconfused:

[ArcturusV]

Composite Longbow description, page 119 says you can, explicitly, while mounted. But you can't use a normal longbow while mounted. But composite? Sure.

[Feytalist]

Wasn't there a specific rule that said you cant use a longbow while mounted?:smallconfused:


A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbow)

But right below that:


You can use a composite longbow while mounted.


*hurk* ninja'd

[TuggyNE]

Composite Longbow description, page 119 says you can, explicitly, while mounted. But you can't use a normal longbow while mounted. But composite? Sure.

Yay, bad copy-paste from composite shortbow description.

[Baron Malkar]

That has got to be one of the top ten dumbest rules I have seen.

[ArcturusV]

It doesn't make sense to me either. But them's the rules. Longbows are the only bows you can't use while mounted. Maybe greatbows, I haven't seen the description on that in a while.

[CyberThread]

Composite bows are smaller, longbows can sometimes be as big as a person, while a composite, is usually only as tall as the upper torso.

[Annos]

I once made a Two-Lance fighting dragon rider. Best character concept EVER! :smallbiggrin:

[Spore]

I once made a Two-Lance fighting dragon rider. Best character concept EVER! :smallbiggrin:

I am sorry? Lances and mounting are only viable when charging and when you charge you only get one attack from ONE weapon anyway. Why waste the potential? Or are you just using the dragon + dual lances for massive style and optional power?

Ontopic: Lances SEEM situational, for a medium sized character with large mount that is. A small rider with medium mount can ride almost anywhere (with the right classes the mount is treated as animal companion and can get feats to ignore difficult terrain). My pathfinder halfling cavalier regularly dishes out good dpr with a great chance to hit.

[Snowbluff]

Well, you can make multiple attacks on a charge. There are quite a few ways of doing this. :smalltongue:

It's Lance, guys.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yay, bad copy-paste from composite shortbow description.
That's persisted through three editions? No, it isn't. A composite bow is much more compact than a simple longbow.

[TuggyNE]

That's persisted through three editions? No, it isn't. A composite bow is much more compact than a simple longbow.

A composite shortbow certainly is, but can you give evidence that a bow reasonably called "composite longbow" is that much shorter? Because otherwise it's just a matter of "well, I don't think so", which doesn't help anyone.

[Renegade Paladin]

A composite shortbow certainly is, but can you give evidence that a bow reasonably called "composite longbow" is that much shorter? Because otherwise it's just a matter of "well, I don't think so", which doesn't help anyone.
The exact wording has persisted since 3.0 D&D at least, so if it's a mistake then it's one that both Wizards and Paizo has had ample opportunity to correct. That aside, find me a compound bow that's seven feet long unstrung and I'll give you the point. :smalltongue: That's the point of compound (which D&D calls composite for some strange reason) bows to begin with; gaining equivalent draw weight in a smaller weapon.

[awa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow#By_mounted_archers



look at how a long bow is shaped then look at how a composite bow is shaped


notice how the composite bow is much less straight that's going to make it a lot shorter.

Not to mention there were types of composite bow specifically designed to be used from horse back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi despite their long length.

so i very much doubt it is a typo

on a unrelated note a composite bow is different then a compound bow

edit images did not work so i removed them

edit 2

That aside, find me a compound bow that's seven feet long unstrung and I'll give you the point.

the yumi Japaneses composite bow is a little over 2 meters long BUT it has special modifications so it can be used from horse back

[Blackhawk748]

Step 1:grab TWF tree
Step 2:Dual wield Lances
Step 3:be a lvl 10 Cavalier
Step 4:Be WIN incarnate


But seriously thats an awesome idea.

[TuggyNE]

The exact wording has persisted since 3.0 D&D at least, so if it's a mistake then it's one that both Wizards and Paizo has had ample opportunity to correct. That aside, find me a compound bow that's seven feet long unstrung and I'll give you the point. :smalltongue: That's the point of compound (which D&D calls composite for some strange reason) bows to begin with; gaining equivalent draw weight in a smaller weapon.

Sorry, but compound and composite bows are entirely different in pretty fundamental ways; one uses pulleys (and, generally, artificial composites) to achieve mechanical advantage and give a non-linear draw weight response, the other uses wood, sinew, and other natural composites, as well as (usually) a recurve shape.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow#By_mounted_archers



look at how a long bow is shaped then look at how a composite bow is shaped


notice how the composite bow is much less straight that's going to make it a lot shorter.

And those are all composite shortbows. Right? :smallconfused:


Not to mention there were types of composite bow specifically designed to be used from horse back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi despite their long length.

so i very much doubt it is a typo
[…]
the yumi Japaneses composite bow is a little over 2 meters long BUT it has special modifications so it can be used from horse back

Hmm. As far as I can tell, those modifications are not unique to composite bows, so all that indicates is that there's a fifth type of bow (yumi, or whatever else you wish to call it), that is basically a composite longbow that also is suitably modified for horseback. (And, presumably, a sixth type theoretically possible, being a longbow usable from horseback.)

That said, it's possible they assumed that the yumi was the only composite longbow around, and that since it happened to be usable from horseback all composite longbows should be. Which, I'll grant, is not so astonishingly stupid, even though I do think it's wrong.

[Renegade Paladin]

Sorry, but compound and composite bows are entirely different in pretty fundamental ways; one uses pulleys (and, generally, artificial composites) to achieve mechanical advantage and give a non-linear draw weight response, the other uses wood, sinew, and other natural composites, as well as (usually) a recurve shape.
Doesn't change the fact that the core rules have been through three revisions, several rounds of errata, and a couple of reprints since and that wording has never been changed, ergo it isn't a mistake, though I made an (unrelated) one.

And those are all composite shortbows. Right? :smallconfused:
What are their draw weights as compared and contrasted to an English longbow? There's your answer.

[Coidzor]

For melee, Valorous Collision Lance seasoned to taste as I recall. If you can reverse engineer a Lance of Faerun(IIRC the name anyway) so that you don't have to take the spirited charge feat, so much the better. Best when paired with a set of gear that lets you not have to take the relevant mounted combat feats and a dip into Barbarian for pounce or some other source of pounce.

I suppose you might have to have something like an Executioner's Mace as a backup weapon in case you run into something immune to piercing damage, though I believe they mostly eliminated that sort of thing except for some unupdated 3.0 content that'd get occasionally grandfathered in.

For ranged, a reverse-engineered Hank's Energy Bow and/or Bow of the Wintermoon(Winterymoon?) with Splitting and other appropriate bow weapon properties seasoned to taste.

I may be misremembering though.

[awa]

Composite bows even big very powerful composite bow are in all cases i have every read about used at least in part on horse back.

They may be shorter then a European long bow but they are not "short bows"
edit
I would add another good weapon for a mounted character a lasso its a touch attack so proficiency is not required and by tying it to your mount you can let your mount use its strength and size to trip and drag foes. I liked to drag them past melee allies so they can make attacks of opportunity on a prone target.

Other then that yeah lance or bow, you might only get one attack on a charge, but with a lance that one attack is quite likely all you will need.

Don't underestimate the bow though being able to move and full attack every rnd can be quite useful.

[Zombulian]

I am sorry? Lances and mounting are only viable when charging and when you charge you only get one attack from ONE weapon anyway. Why waste the potential? Or are you just using the dragon + dual lances for massive style and optional power?

Ontopic: Lances SEEM situational, for a medium sized character with large mount that is. A small rider with medium mount can ride almost anywhere (with the right classes the mount is treated as animal companion and can get feats to ignore difficult terrain). My pathfinder halfling cavalier regularly dishes out good dpr with a great chance to hit.

Oh. Ohohohoho. Oohhhhh man you're new. Full attacking on a charge is definitely a thing. You can get it from many many sources. It is one of the easiest damage dealing abilities in the game.

It's the lance man.

[Snowbluff]

Lances have reach. They're pretty decent regardless.

Oh, by the way I Wild Plains Outridered you, Zombulian. :smalltongue:

They give hide/move silently ranks to their mounts.

[CyberThread]

Mounted fighter...who takes bloodstorm blade....and throws his lance at everyone, and ....wow.. a flying missle...

[Zombulian]

Lances have reach. They're pretty decent regardless.

Oh, by the way I Wild Plains Outridered you, Zombulian. :smalltongue:

They give hide/move silently ranks to their mounts.

Eh I noticed before I wrote it. I figured I'd add just a little bit more info.

Also omg a Bloodstorm Blade with a lance sounds hilarious.

Edit: thanks for the white text. I was confused.

[TuggyNE]

What are their draw weights as compared and contrasted to an English longbow? There's your answer.

I'm not really sure what your point here is, but taking the Mongol composite bow as an example, while a couple of fanboi sites suggest that they had up to twice the draw weight (160 vs 80, which is patently absurd), I found a citation by Erik Holdinger that they were almost certainly no more than 70 lbs. English longbows were, however, generally well over 100 lbs, and not infrequently up to 150-160.

More than that, I can't say for sure and we're really kind of getting off track. >_>

[Carth]

Strictly speaking, making a bow longer doesn't make it more powerful. It does raise the ceiling for a bow's theoretical maximum draw weight, but that's not really going to come into play that often (for instance, if you were making a bow for a giant versus a human it would, so weapon size is a better way to scale that anyway). The thickness and curvature of the limbs are what are going to determine the power, if you take two identical pieces of wood or two identical sets of composite material that are to be fashioned into a bow, turn one into a plain stick longbow, and the other into a recurve, the recurve will be more powerful. D&D's whole thing about larger bows doing more damage is basically BS.

[CyberThread]

kk no more bow pleas e<-<

[Doc_Maynot]

Well if you want a melee option other than the lance, there is the Saber. One-handed 1d8 slashing or piercing sword, 19-20/x2 and grants a +1 on attack when mounted. Sure no reach, but it is still useful in melee while off a horse.

[starwoof]

Question regarding lances, specifically for Pathfinder: If you are dual wielding lances or make a full attack during a pounce, do all of your attacks deal double damage? The wording on the rules says "A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount". Even if only the first attack is considered to be a charge attack the wording seems to indicate that any or all of the attacks would deal double damage because you are astride a charging mount.

[CombatOwl]

What is the actual best weapon for a mounted person, lance seems to situtional, so that gets tossed out, and the other average weapons, tend to be the best on foot.

Battle Ladder. While others may talk up these "mechanical bonuses" from the lance and archery, I will maintain that the Battle Ladder is by far the most awesome mounted weapon. After all, it's easy to imagine how you'd use a lance while mounted--easy to visualize horseback archery. These, after all, were things that actually existed. But mounted ladder combat? No, that's a brain twisting concept on the order of a dire flail. Obviously it is the superior choice.


Question regarding lances, specifically for Pathfinder: If you are dual wielding lances or make a full attack during a pounce, do all of your attacks deal double damage? The wording on the rules says "A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount". Even if only the first attack is considered to be a charge attack the wording seems to indicate that any or all of the attacks would deal double damage because you are astride a charging mount.

Yes, but I warn you, when you do that, your character will die from a tragic sleeping accident the night after. Because no DM in their right mind will let someone use pounce on a mount... even if the rules let them.

[starwoof]

Yes, but I warn you, when you do that, your character will die from a tragic sleeping accident the night after. Because no DM in their right mind will let someone use pounce on a mount... even if the rules let them.

I am going to make this happen, somehow, someday. This I swear!

[CTrees]

The exact wording has persisted since 3.0 D&D at least, so if it's a mistake then it's one that both Wizards and Paizo has had ample opportunity to correct.

Not adressing any of the bow stuff, I just want to point out that this is a *really* bad standard to judge things by. See: things like how Dust of Sneezing and Choking still has a 5d4 round stun with no save. There are known errors that Paizo just pasted along for Pathfinder despite the simplicity of fixing them.

[Coidzor]

Question regarding lances, specifically for Pathfinder: If you are dual wielding lances or make a full attack during a pounce, do all of your attacks deal double damage? The wording on the rules says "A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount". Even if only the first attack is considered to be a charge attack the wording seems to indicate that any or all of the attacks would deal double damage because you are astride a charging mount.

It looks like a no on that one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16357625&postcount=14)

You might be able to argue that the first attack for each lance counts, but given the PF team, you'd have an uphill battle there. Although the stated reason is that the extra damage is from the momentum of the charge, and iteratives lose that due to being delivered after the charge, possibly meaning if they went through it the whole way you'd lose the bonus to hit from charging too... :/

[Sir Chuckles]

I am sorry? Lances and mounting are only viable when charging and when you charge you only get one attack from ONE weapon anyway. Why waste the potential? Or are you just using the dragon + dual lances for massive style and optional power?

Two-Weapon Pounce allows you to attack with both weapons when dual-wielding and charging. You lose the +2 to hit, but you gain stabbing with TWO lances.

And yes, it does allow both lance hits to be charged, gaining the extra damage. Combine with Spirited Charge to guarantee a party member being dominated and killing you in your sleep.

If you want a low-level weapon, the Saber (A 3.0 weapon, but it's stats are sound) is essentially a Longsword with a +1 to hit while mounted. No feat needed.
And it makes you all fancy! Tally-ho!

[Gwendol]

Lance, hands down. With a bow back-up.

[Captnq]

Nothing else does what a lance does. Not even a flight lance. The fluff text talks about the many weapons that are used "mounted" but there are no perks to using them mounted, except for the saber.

[Psyren]

*sidesteps archer nerding*

In PF, you only get double damage on the first hit (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9p1k) with a lance when charging even if you have pounce. (And yes, SKR's reasoning makes sense.)

However, you do get the full 2H damage mod to your power attack (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qno) even if you wield the lance 1-handed.

[Gwachitallemall]

If you are eberron, and a halfling, talenta sharrash is pretty awesome. 19-20/X4

[Eric Scott]

How about a Spiked Chain?