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Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 12:33 PM
Or other variants.

How much would it cost, in magic item terms, to have something that did nothing but give you permanent 'protection from alignment.'

Maybe also include an advanced item that is protection from two alignments, stackable against the diametrically opposed alignment.

Other advanced items include permanent magic circle against alignment, with the upgrade of magic circle against two alignments.

Mando Knight
2013-10-23, 12:36 PM
So, slotless continuous Protection from Alignment?

4000gp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), at caster level 1 and a level 1 spell. (The repels-summoned-creatures effect is practically worthless at that level, however)

Being slotless, it's technically cheaper to get two items than to merge them into one slotless item, though I think it'd be reasonable to waive the additional effect premium when you're already going slotless.

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 12:44 PM
Slotless would be a killer tattoo, I gotta say.

But what if it were slotted, like a ring or amulet or whatever?

kinem
2013-10-23, 12:46 PM
At least 10k or 20k for a ring, I'd say. The protection against mind control being the most valuable aspect of it. As a DM, if you let players have this cheap and non-dispellable, you can throw away a good portion of your monster manuals including vampires.

Mando, the magic item price guidelines you cited are pretty much worthless except for standard effects; they can too easily be abused for overpowered effects.

Mando Knight
2013-10-23, 01:13 PM
Slotless would be a killer tattoo, I gotta say.

But what if it were slotted, like a ring or amulet or whatever?
Slots make it cheaper, since they can't be stacked.

At least 10k or 20k for a ring, I'd say. The protection against mind control being the most valuable aspect of it. As a DM, if you let players have this cheap and non-dispellable, you can throw away a good portion of your monster manuals including vampires.

Mando, the magic item price guidelines you cited are pretty much worthless except for standard effects; they can too easily be abused for overpowered effects.

It can't be completely dispelled, but it can be suppressed.

The mind block ability isn't a problem with the item pricing guidelines, but more with Protection from Alignment.

kinem
2013-10-23, 01:53 PM
It can't be completely dispelled, but it can be suppressed.

Not really, if it's a cheap slotless item; because, first of all, an opponent would have no idea which item to target. He might think to target a ring or amulet, but not some random slotless item. And to safeguard against an opponent getting lucky about that, a medium to high level character could easily carry 2-3 of the items (and would, if magic using vampires were a suspected threat in the campaign world). In practice, then, even suppressing the effect for the 1d4 rounds is impossible.


The mind block ability isn't a problem with the item pricing guidelines, but more with Protection from Alignment.

I agree but that means that the problematic effect must be taken into account when making a DM call as to the pricing of such an item. The spell has limiting factors - limited duration, takes a spell slot, must be cast in advance or as an action in combat - that the item does not.

If you take away the mental protection and the protection from summoned monsters, what you'd have left is a +2 ring of deflection and +2 resistance that only works against evil creatures.

Normally a +2 ring of protection is 8k and adding +2 resistance on saves to it should cost 6k (1.5 x cloak of resistance +2), for 14k total. Since it only works on evil creatures, which most opponents in most campaigns are, I'd say 11k for that ring.

The protection from summoned creatures is probably worth another 9k, so I'd say 20k for that.

Throw the always-on mental protection into the package, and I'd have to say maybe 60k for that ring.

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 01:54 PM
Right.

Well, let's start with a hypothetical ring, in 4 cases.

1st:Protection from one alignment.
2nd:Protection from two alignments, stacked against diametrically opposed.
3rd:Magic Circle against one alignment.
4th:Magic Circle against two alignments, stacked against diametrically opposed.

'Stacked against diametrically opposed' means the deflection and resistance bonuses go to +4 against the opposite 'corner' of the item. LG vs. CE, CG vs. LE.

Realms of Chaos
2013-10-23, 02:20 PM
I don't think there is any good formula for pricing protection from evil simply because of how the spell is. It's like trying to price a sword that uses true strike at will.

I wouldn't look for a "book price" (which would probably cause issues) but for a "fair price" (which would probably make a ring of pro evil more expensive than a ring of mind shielding).

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 02:57 PM
Then again, how important is it that monsters be able to take away the free will of the player characters? If the vampire can't charm you, he'll just have to settle for being a modified vampire monk with flurry of energy drains. Poor guy.

kinem
2013-10-23, 03:53 PM
Not to mention hugely nerfing an entire school of wizardry.

Would it be just fine to make a 1000 gp item that grants immunity to fire? After all, red dragons and wizards have other attacks! Well then, how about the same idea for each energy type?

That is a campaign setting decision. Such a game-changing item isn't 'normal' homebrew that could be added to a general collection of items.

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 04:10 PM
Actually, there is a ring of elemental immunity...

And it's an epic item, straight out of the epic handbook.

The epic handbook also contains a ring of virtous good, which is permanent Holy Aura.

It might be possible to reverse engineer, from the epic Holy Aura ring, what a ring of magic circle against evil, and from there, a ring of pro evil, should cost.

Yitzi
2013-10-23, 04:11 PM
I don't think there is any good formula for pricing protection from evil simply because of how the spell is. It's like trying to price a sword that uses true strike at will.

That would actually not be such a problem if you're clever about it...true strike lasts only until expended, so making it "continuous use" should logically have the same rules as placing permanency on a trap: Once used it becomes inactive for 10 minutes.

So now what you've got is a magical sword that (just to give it some indicator) shines with a faint glow until it is used to attack; on that first attack it gets +20 insight bonus to the attack roll, after which it loses the glow and bonus for 10 minutes.

So essentially one free hit per encounter. 8000 gp isn't such an unreasonable price for that...

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 04:19 PM
And the free hit isn't even garunteed. You could still a roll a natural 1.

Realms of Chaos
2013-10-23, 06:07 PM
So essentially one free hit per encounter. 8000 gp isn't such an unreasonable price for that...

Unless you put it on a command word, which would cost only 1,800 gp. You'd have to spend an action to get the bonus, sure, but you could do it basically at will and the bonus is a bit too high when you consider that a +1 weapon costs more.

Yitzi
2013-10-23, 10:36 PM
Unless you put it on a command word, which would cost only 1,800 gp. You'd have to spend an action to get the bonus, sure, but you could do it basically at will and the bonus is a bit too high when you consider that a +1 weapon costs more.

Not really...as a command word it's definitely not overpowered, since in order to get that +20 bonus you're giving up an attack, and if you don't get to attack the next round then you just wasted a round. A +1 weapon costs more, but gives you the bonus every attack, not just once per round when you sacrificed the previous round to get said bonus.

A wand of True Strike costs only 750, even less, but even when a melee build dips into wizard, how often does it actually use such a wand? Not that often, because it's usually not worth spending the round.

Angelalex242
2013-10-23, 11:18 PM
We're a little off topic...I'm trying to balance pro evil and magic circle against evil in ring format, and the only point of reference we have is the epic item ring of virtous good.