Glitterdust and the Invisible Man

[Stitches]

Would glitterdust allow a PC to get a look at someone and be able to determine features? We have a Beguiler trying to locate person on someone he saw invisible made visible by glitterdust.

[Psyren]

It "outlines" - so fine details like face shouldn't be visible, but broader characteristics like height and weight should be.

[Stitches]

It "outlines" - so fine details like face shouldn't be visible, but broader characteristics like height and weight should be.

I imagine it like a powdering of dust over the entire body. Like someone throwing flower on the invisible man, giving more than the typical fairy fire.

[Equinox]

The most generous information I ever give with Glitterdust is size and general body type (ie. "you see a six-foot humanoid shape outlined in Glitterdust")

[Fax Celestis]

The most generous information I ever give with Glitterdust is size and general body type (ie. "you see a six-foot humanoid shape outlined in Glitterdust")

I might give a little more than that. Dwarves are very differently shaped than elves, for instance, despite both being Medium Humanoids. Even on the tall end of the spectrum, half-orcs (tusks, pointy ears) are very differently shaped from, say, goliaths (no hair, lumpy), half-giants (rounded ears, broad-shoulders, hair), or killoren (planty).

[KillianHawkeye]

The most generous information I ever give with Glitterdust is size and general body type (ie. "you see a six-foot humanoid shape outlined in Glitterdust")

Additionally, you can probably get general body proportions, such as "fat" or "thin" or "huge biceps". You will also notice any unusual motions the creature makes, such as "walks with a limp".

If enough of these features are unique, it might be enough to identify the creature later, but you usually don't get anything definitive like facial features or skin or hair color, or non-physical features like distinctive scars or tattoos, that are the normal means of identification.

[Psyren]

I might give a little more than that. Dwarves are very differently shaped than elves, for instance, despite both being Medium Humanoids. Even on the tall end of the spectrum, half-orcs (tusks, pointy ears) are very differently shaped from, say, goliaths (no hair, lumpy), half-giants (rounded ears, broad-shoulders, hair), or killoren (planty).

Yeah this is probably how I'd handle it.

And even among the smaller races - Gnomes are round and lumpy while Grippli are slight and spindly, so both would show up differently under a glitterdust effect. Kobolds have snouts and Dromites have antennae etc.

I would probably reveal the thing's race (but not whether it was a specific individual.)

[Lord Vukodlak]

You could probably pick out the race of a humanoid with a reasonable degree of accuracy. But a half-elf's outline would be be almost indistinguishable from a human's.

[Yuki Akuma]

Honestly I'd roll for a skill check to discern the race of someone just from the glitterdust outline. Knowledge (Local) is the skill for humanoids, right?

Call it DC 10 so untrained people can make it. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

You could probably pick out the race of a humanoid with a reasonable degree of accuracy. But a half-elf's outline would be be almost indistinguishable from a human's.

That depends, I'd say. If the ears got outlined you could probably tell - in Pathfinder, Elves and Half-Elves have differently-shaped ears. Or you could outline pointy ears and a beard, that would be a dead-giveaway of "Half-Elf" too.

On the other hand, it could get tricky for other races. Tieflings for instance can look exactly like humans except for minor details like a smell of brimstone or red skin. For certain fine details I'd probably call for a Perception check. For others I would say the glitterdust doesn't pick them up at all (like a Slylph's tattoos.)

[Zanos]

Honestly I'd roll for a skill check to discern the race of someone just from the glitterdust outline. Knowledge (Local) is the skill for humanoids, right?

Call it DC 10 so untrained people can make it. :smalltongue:
All the Knowledge skills are untrained, unfortunately.

Perhaps a spot check would be appropriate?

[Yuki Akuma]

You can make Knowledge checks up to DC 10 untrained. 11+ are trained-only.

[KillianHawkeye]

Identifying specific features can depend heavily on the clothing or armor worn by the creature. Also, unless they have a really long or bushy beard, do you really think you could tell by a simple outline? Ears can easily be obscured by a hat or helmet, or by hair. I think some of these suggestions are getting a little too specific for what an outline or a glitter-covered shape can accurately portray.

I do agree with using Knowledge skills to identify a specific race or kind of creature when it's not completely obvious, though (given that enough clues are visible).

[Lord Vukodlak]

That depends, I'd say. If the ears got outlined you could probably tell - in Pathfinder, Elves and Half-Elves have differently-shaped ears. Or you could outline pointy ears and a beard, that would be a dead-giveaway of "Half-Elf" too.

I don't think you'd get the ears at least not well enough to see the more subtle points.


You can make Knowledge checks up to DC 10 untrained. 11+ are trained-only.

But that doesn't work as a lot of races would have very distinctive outlines. You'd have to judge the DC based on circumstances, because in a lot of cases it would be obvious such as a Dwarf their outline is so distinctive.

[Psyren]

I don't think you'd get the ears at least not well enough to see the more subtle points.

It's not just points, it's height. Elf ears go above the head - that would be pretty noticeable even on an outlined wraith of some kind.

[Eldariel]

It's not just points, it's height. Elf ears go above the head - that would be pretty noticeable even on an outlined wraith of some kind.

I'm not sure the default D&D Elves do. The picture in the PHB certainly suggests that while significantly longer than a human's, they still seem to fall within their profile so unless seen up close, it might be hard to discern from an outline.

[Lord Vukodlak]

It's not just points, it's height. Elf ears go above the head - that would be pretty noticeable even on an outlined wraith of some kind.

A full pathfinder elf would be instantly recognizable due to his height and elongated ears(which are portrayed much larger then in 3.5) Elves in pathfinder would need holes fitted for there long pointed ears.

But we are talking about Half-Elves whose ears are much less elongated then full Elves. From just an outline of a creature you couldn't see the ears unless they had rather short hair.

In 3.5 Half-Elves have ears more like a Vulcan, even with short hair the outline from the ears would blend right in. In 3.5 full elven ears would be obscured by the outline by medium length hair.

Paizo removed any subtly from Elven lobes

[Psyren]

I'm not sure the default D&D Elves do. The picture in the PHB certainly suggests that while significantly longer than a human's, they still seem to fall within their profile so unless seen up close, it might be hard to discern from an outline.



Paizo removed any subtly from Elven lobes

I was talking about PF exclusively though. So yeah, in PF, you could tell an elf outline differently from a HE one.

[aeauseth]

That depends, I'd say. If the ears got outlined you could probably tell - in Pathfinder, Elves and Half-Elves have differently-shaped ears. Or you could outline pointy ears and a beard, that would be a dead-giveaway of "Half-Elf" too.

Typically Glitterdust would be cast during a battle. Subtle details (like pointy ears) aren't likely to be obvious without a called spot check. The foe is likely moving around violently, trying not to get hit. Things like size and appendage count is about all that would be obvious. A DM telling you it was a medium sized humanoid would seem very fair, so would a description of a large size four legged creature.

I do not think of it like flour being poured on an invisible man. More like a cloud of glitter where a several specs get stuck to the creature. Perhaps a glitter spec every centimeter or so along the entire body. Just enough so you can determine the basic outline of a creature.

[Psyren]

I would absolutely call for a Perception check, sure. But noticing fine details like ear length in the middle of a fight is certainly something a heroic character could pull off. There's a whole trope for this sort of thing. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AwesomenessByAnalysis)

[Chronos]

Isn't most of the Pathfinder art rather cartoony, though? I wouldn't take that as evidence that that's what Pathfinder elves (or humans) look like-- Rather, I'd assume that they look more or less like they do in D&D (or, in the case of humans, in real life), and that the exaggerated ears are just a matter of the art style.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Isn't most of the Pathfinder art rather cartoony, though? I wouldn't take that as evidence that that's what Pathfinder elves (or humans) look like-- Rather, I'd assume that they look more or less like they do in D&D

No it isn't no more then the art I see in WoTC books. Wizards on occasion tries to make there art look like its on an ancient tapestry or painting. But its no more or less cartoony, especially without the tapestry tint.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG101.jpg

Yeah that's every bit at "cartoony" as anything from a Pathfinder book.

[Spore]

Give them the general shape of the invisibile creature. Do not TELL them what it is. Not everything in game has to be determined by roll.

If they want hints however, I'd refer to Knowledge (Nature) for typical racial features, or a hefty Perception check for additional features.

[Jack_Simth]

Would glitterdust allow a PC to get a look at someone and be able to determine features? We have a Beguiler trying to locate person on someone he saw invisible made visible by glitterdust.
Answer is: Not clearly specified in RAW, so you need to ask the DM.
If you are the DM, decide which seems best suited to your plot, and stick with it.