Feat: Mastery of the Battleground

[Novercalis]

Prereq: Extend Feat, Spellcraft rank 6, Knowledge of Planes rank 2

Description:

Any time you cast a spell that creates, enhances, or mimics a weapon (such as flame blade, keen edge, or Mordenkainen's sword) or excites hostile emotions (such as rage, heroism, or antipathy), you can spontaneously apply the effect of the Extend Spell metamagic feat to that spell. Doing this has no effect on the spell's level or casting time.


I am curious if I can do this: (Let's assume I am level 6)

- Prepare my spiritual Weapon with the Metamagic Feat (Extend Spell)
- Cast Extend Spirtual Weapon which gives me 12 rounds ( 6 rounds x 2 from Extend)
- Spell triggers Mastery of the Battleground which doubles my spell
(12x2) giving me 24 rounds of spiritual weapon.

If this is possible, is there any supporting Evidence/Rule that I can show my DM?

[Fax Celestis]

No, it isn't. Mastery of the Battleground already applies Extend. You can't apply a metamagic twice.

[nedz]

No, it isn't. Mastery of the Battleground already applies Extend. You can't apply a metamagic twice.

this, otherwise my Extended Extended Extended Extended Extended Extended Extended Extended Mage Armour cast at CL 20 would last 213 days.

[Fax Celestis]

That said, a feat that let you apply a particular metamagic twice would be pretty cool, maybe for an extra +1. Like a twinned twinned magic missile (aka Isaac's greater missile storm).

[nedz]

The problem is that the progression is exponential, so even with an extra +1 we could have a Enlarged Enlarged Enlarged Enlarged magic missile for 16x range (8th level slot)

Metamagic Reduces are also an issue.

[Fax Celestis]

The problem is that the progression is exponential, so even with an extra +1 we could have a Enlarged Enlarged Enlarged Enlarged magic missile for 16x range (8th level slot)

Metamagic Reduces are also an issue.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying it's without flaws, I'm just saying it'd be a neat thing to tool around with to see if you could get it to work.

[Equinox]

That's not how doubling works in D&D 3.5.

In math, 2x2=4. In D&D, if something is doubled and then doubled again, it's x3, not x4.

[Fax Celestis]

That's because in D&D, "x2" means "+100%".

[INoKnowNames]

No, it isn't. Mastery of the Battleground already applies Extend. You can't apply a metamagic twice.

Randomly curious about this point, actually. The precise wording from the SRD is that:

You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats)

So that rules out feats.... what about class features? Say a prestige class widens all spells with the dark descriptor, and then another that widens all evocation spells... could the spell Darkness, which has the Dark Descriptor and is an Evocation spell, be affected by both class features (albeit it only slightly increased due to the D&D rules on multiplication)?

[KillianHawkeye]

Randomly curious about this point, actually. The precise wording from the SRD is that:

You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats)

So that rules out feats.... what about class features? Say a prestige class widens all spells with the dark descriptor, and then another that widens all evocation spells... could the spell Darkness, which has the Dark Descriptor and is an Evocation spell, be affected by both class features (albeit it only slightly increased due to the D&D rules on multiplication)?

IMO, it doesn't really matter if you're applying it by preparing a spell with the feat normally or having it applied through a class feature or magic item. You simply can't do it more than once.

[nedz]

That's not how doubling works in D&D 3.5.

In math, 2x2=4. In D&D, if something is doubled and then doubled again, it's x3, not x4.

That's for damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#multiplyingDamage).

You can Extend Persist for 2 days duration I think, which would allow a DMM CZilla to double up on their buffs.

[INoKnowNames]

IMO, it doesn't really matter if you're applying it by preparing a spell with the feat normally or having it applied through a class feature or magic item. You simply can't do it more than once.

See, I'm not entirely sure about class features having that restriction, at least with each other. I wouldn't dredge up this conversation if I found it RAW (rather against trying to twist it too much, if at all), but the player's handbook was printed way before other classes and what not that had such features, so at the time your only options were metamagic feats and items that let you use metamagic feats you didn't have, which specifically claimed to channel those metamagic feats, which one isn't allowed to stack atop itself.

Then again, the only reason this is even being bothered to be asked a second time is because I could have -sworn- I saw a class that had a similar metamagic ability to the ones I described that even explicitly stated that it stacked with the actual metamagic feat... though that might be the nail in the coffin that would confirm that they shouldn't otherwise, what with specific beating general....

Still looking to ask, just to be certain it wouldn't be worth trying to deliberate it with a Dm on a RAW/AI base. Interested in combining a 2 level dip in Radiant Servant for Empower Healing to the Healing Domain, and full Healing Hand for Mishakal's Strength, an additional Empower to any Cure spell, in addition to Cha to hit-point curing spells. 2(Cure+Cha) is actually pretty competitive healing.

[Fax Celestis]

Then again, the only reason this is even being bothered to be asked a second time is because I could have -sworn- I saw a class that had a similar metamagic ability to the ones I described that even explicitly stated that it stacked with the actual metamagic feat... though that might be the nail in the coffin that would confirm that they shouldn't otherwise, what with specific beating general....

I've seen it too. Those features don't include text like "...as the Extend Spell metamagic feat."

[Crake]

That's for damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#multiplyingDamage).

You can Extend Persist for 2 days duration I think, which would allow a DMM CZilla to double up on their buffs.

It applies to all multipliers, regardless of reason. In essence, think of x2 not as doubling, but adding 100% of the base. so x2x2 is +100%+100%, for x3, and x3 +200% etc etc. As for extended persist, thats fine because persist doesnt multiply the duration, it just completely changes it, then extend doubles that.

[PraxisVetli]

Randomly curious about this point, actually. The precise wording from the SRD is that:

You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#metamagicFeats)

So that rules out feats.... what about class features? Say a prestige class widens all spells with the dark descriptor, and then another that widens all evocation spells... could the spell Darkness, which has the Dark Descriptor and is an Evocation spell, be affected by both class features (albeit it only slightly increased due to the D&D rules on multiplication)?

The Immortal's Handbook (the flaws there are it's own ball of wax) has a feat that allows multi-meta ing.
It's an epic feat, not sure if that makes it better or worse...
Hard to get, but way easier to break once you have it..
Just tossin it out there

[INoKnowNames]

I've seen it too. Those features don't include text like "...as the Extend Spell metamagic feat."

Actually, I think I found the text I was looking for: Shadowcraft Mage's Extend Illusion ability blatantly states that this ability stacks with the Extend Spell feat... damn.


The Immortal's Handbook (the flaws there are it's own ball of wax) has a feat that allows multi-meta ing.
It's an epic feat, not sure if that makes it better or worse...
Hard to get, but way easier to break once you have it..
Just tossin it out there

Eh, once you get into epic, what balance the game has finally slits it's own throat and it's blood paints the campaign.