Would You Play? (Question)

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Would you play a Warblade if it came equipped with the Magus's abilities and spells from PF?

Or would you play a Swordsage that incorporated the Martial and Arcane in one, using the Magus class as a spell list, with the Beguiler system of picking a handful of the Wiz/Sorc through their 20 levels to branch out and be adaptive.

[bekeleven]

I'd find that class too powerful for my general tastes, and stick to warblade.

[Ortesk]

Would you play a Warblade if it came equipped with the Magus's abilities and spells from PF?

Or would you play a Swordsage that incorporated the Martial and Arcane in one, using the Magus class as a spell list, with the Beguiler system of picking a handful of the Wiz/Sorc through their 20 levels to branch out and be adaptive.

I would play a warblade regardless of whether or not i got spells. Warblade with spells is cruel and beautifl

[Tvtyrant]

Would you play a Warblade if it came equipped with the Magus's abilities and spells from PF?

Or would you play a Swordsage that incorporated the Martial and Arcane in one, using the Magus class as a spell list, with the Beguiler system of picking a handful of the Wiz/Sorc through their 20 levels to branch out and be adaptive.

Are you suggesting taking out the Warblade's martial abilities and swapping them for spells here? Or do they get both?

Eh, martial abilities are not all that great. They are heavily reliant on high strength or dex scores, and combining that with spell casting makes them MAD. MAD I say!

[DwarfInTheFlask]

How so both are Tier 3 classes they cannot be too powerful if combined.

I agree its cool idea. I liked the Swordsage combo (I call it the Arcane Swordsavant)

Edit: And Yes I meant to combo both the Maneuvers and the Magus style of class (Casting spells through the blade, etc)

[Ortesk]

How so both are Tier 3 classes they cannot be too powerful if combined.

I agree its cool idea. I liked the Swordsage combo (I call it the Arcane Swordsavant)

Edit: And Yes I meant to combo both the Maneuvers and the Magus style of class (Casting spells through the blade, etc)

There tier 3 because they cant do it all like the wizard can. Now lets give the best melee in the game some magic. Now he can do his own buffs and GTFO plans, and beat down every bad guy. He is now tier 1

[Urpriest]

How so both are Tier 3 classes they cannot be too powerful if combined.


No, they cannot be higher Tier if combined. That's a very different statement.

[Talya]

No, they cannot be higher Tier if combined. That's a very different statement.

It's also not necessarily true, either way. It's entirely possible for two sets of tier 3 class abilities to be synergistic enough to bump them up to tier 2. I'm not saying they are in this case, but it's possible.

Hmmm.

If you gestalted Bard//Crusader in a game where you were the only one allowed to gestalt, I wonder if you might climb to tier 2? It'd be darn close. But I think it's still tier 3.

[Gnaeus]

There tier 3 because they cant do it all like the wizard can. Now lets give the best melee in the game some magic. Now he can do his own buffs and GTFO plans, and beat down every bad guy. He is now tier 1

Not exactly. A warblade with Magus powers does not have the flexibility of a wizard, or even a well built utility sorcerer.

He is, on the other hand, very, very capable in combat, almost certainly surpassing the tier 1 through most of the level range at most optimization levels at his speciality, which is making people dead. Since this is a very important part of most games, he will be way overpowered at most tables. He is basically a (very high) tier 3 equivalent to an ubercharger. A tier 4 barbarian with the right feats can kill anything it can charge that isn't immune to damage. It is much less versatile than a wizard, but it is still overpowered in many, probably most games.

The difference between an Ubercharger and a Magus//Warblade is essentially that the Magus//Warblade cannot be shut down by things that prevent charging, miss chances, or the like, since it will just switch to a different way to do lots of dice of damage.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I thought it would be cool to have a Hybrid class who is moderately good in fighting and spell casting and a system like Magus supplements them together. A Martial fighter who can channel his magical might through his blade or weapon of choice to inflict them.

This was just a question, no offense meant.

[Urpriest]

I thought it would be cool to have a Hybrid class who is moderately good in fighting and spell casting and a system like Magus supplements them together. A Martial fighter who can channel his magical might through his blade or weapon of choice to inflict them.

This was just a question, no offense meant.

In general, if you want to combine things like that it's better to build in some tradeoffs. For example, if you want to combine Magus and Warblade, maybe make a Jade Pheonix Mage?

[Gnaeus]

If you gestalted Bard//Crusader in a game where you were the only one allowed to gestalt, I wonder if you might climb to tier 2? It'd be darn close. But I think it's still tier 3.

I don't think Bard//Crusader would do it (alone, Sublime chord changes everything). Beguiler//Dread Necro, on the other hand, seems like it would outperform Sorcerer at any but the very highest optimization levels.

[Talya]

I don't think Bard//Crusader would do it (alone, Sublime chord changes everything). Beguiler//Dread Necro, on the other hand, seems like it would outperform Sorcerer at any but the very highest optimization levels.

Actually, Dread Necromancer//Crusader might be up there, too. (Especially if you could find a way to work in RKV after, although you'd need some hijinx to get the DN's spellcasting to count as divine.) I once had one built for a gestalt game, I really felt like I was making "Bride of Arthas" or something. She was a nasty death knight.

[Ortesk]

Look at duskblade if you want a gish (Warrior mage) also a bard/paladin/Master Abjurer/Sub Chord/IotSV will get you one hell of a gish if you can get enough flaws

[Talya]

Look at duskblade if you want a gish (Warrior mage) also a bard/paladin/Master Abjurer/Sub Chord/IotSV will get you one hell of a gish if you can get enough flaws

Duskblade is neat. I kinda prefer Magus from PF for style, though.

[Ortesk]

Duskblade is neat. I kinda prefer Magus from PF for style, though.

I honestly know very little about PF classes, i know enough about the system to help out in some areas. Your probably better help in this than i ever will be