The fiendish octopus in 478

[Tiiba]

According to DND Wiki, a giant octopus can be large, like a horse, or at most huge, like an elephant. This thing is bigger than Hinjo's ship. What is it, and who is the demigod that summoned it?

[NerdyKris]

It's artistic license. Rich doesn't slavishly follow the stats, and consistently doesn't follow size if it makes for a better visual. See goblins being medium sized, among others.

[Kish]

Redcloak, quite possibly the highest level cleric in the world where he exists, summoned it.

As for why it's so big, I don't know. Redcloak might explain at some point. But I doubt it.

[Muenster Man]

According to DND Wiki, a giant octopus can be large, like a horse, or at most huge, like an elephant. This thing is bigger than Hinjo's ship. What is it, and who is the demigod that summoned it?

Rich Burlew

[ChristianSt]

I have no clue what it is since I'm not playing D&D (my guess would be something like devil kraken, if something like that exists), but I think Redcloak summoned it (he stands there in panel 4)

[Sloanzilla]

this thread may well be evidence in support of the "yes" side of the "are we too serious?" thread.

Why oh why should the relative size of an octopus from 5 years ago possibly being larger than the spell's description ever, in any universe, be deemed worthy of concern? And I know it isn't "concern" so much as it is "finding something to talk about"- but head exploding anyway.

[Tiiba]

this thread may well be evidence in support of the "yes" side of the "are we too serious?" thread.

Why oh why should the relative size of an octopus from 5 years ago possibly being larger than the spell's description ever, in any universe, be deemed worthy of concern? And I know it isn't "concern" so much as it is "finding something to talk about"- but head exploding anyway.

It's not concern, it's curiosity. It might be artistic license - or it might be secret knowledge. Supposedly, Rich doesn't care about the rules, but almost every time someone says that he went against them, it turns out that the complainer misread the rules.

You complain about nerd rage, but ignore a very important counterargument - nerd rage feels awesome.

[ti'esar]

You complain about nerd rage, but ignore a very important counterargument - nerd rage feels awesome.

Speak for yourself. Even if that comment wasn't meant seriously, it's not really funny around here.

[Evandar]

It seems like things are getting pretty meta here, with the annoyance over annoyance beginning (maybe) to surpass the original annoyance.

I think in this case the octopus was artistic license. (or hit with an Enlarge buff?)

It was cooler for the story either way.

[Tiiba]

Speak for yourself. Even if that comment wasn't meant seriously, it's not really funny around here.

Okay, maybe not nerd RAGE. But arguing about minute distinctions between two fictional worlds is sort of what nerds are for, so long as nobody pulls a knife.

[BroomGuys]

Okay, maybe not nerd RAGE. But arguing about minute distinctions between two fictional worlds is sort of what nerds are for, so long as nobody pulls a knife.

Yeah, I think the important distinction is between the enjoyment of discussing minutiae and grandiose declarations that things suck because of minutiae, and I suspect the latter is the sort of thing implied by the term "nerd rage."

[137beth]

It's an advanced giant octopus...possibly with the Giant Creature template or something similar applied.

[NerdyKris]

It's an advanced giant octopus...possibly with the Giant Creature template or something similar applied.

It's just a giant octopus drawn by someone who doesn't care what the correct size is supposed to be.

[137beth]

It's just a giant octopus drawn by someone who doesn't care what the correct size is supposed to be.
Shhh! You'll give away the Secret!

[Tiiba]

Yeah, I think the important distinction is between the enjoyment of discussing minutiae and grandiose declarations that things suck because of minutiae, and I suspect the latter is the sort of thing implied by the term "nerd rage."

Well, I didn't do it.

[Toper]

Same deal with the giant soldiers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html). Just don't worry about it.

[Roland Itiative]

Redcloak's oversizedness creeped into the summoning spell. If Celia did the summoning it would be even bigger.

[Gift Jeraff]

Redcloak's oversizedness creeped into the summoning spell. If Celia did the summoning it would be even bigger.

Celia must've wrote Book 5.

[Zancloufer]

A Large Fiendish Octopus for some reason is 10 CR at 8 HD, which on it's own is rather stupid considering it's strength. Advancing it to Huge would make it at least CR 13, even 21+ if Gargantuan (Yes our 200HP monster with ~10 touch AC would be a 'Challenge' to Epic parties). So from a RAW perspective a Huge/Gargantuan Fiendish Octopus would be too strong for a Summon Monster VIII.

Now, no sane DM would expect said octopus to be even a road block for ~4 level ~13 PCs. Now a CR 14 Octopus SHOULD be a challenge for said party. Said Octopus would have about 100 HP, an AC of like 24, and about +15 to hit for a terrifying 1d4+9 damage. Oh, and like DR 10/I have better weapons that this at level 3 plus an SR of I will resit spells if you roll a 1 on spell pen checks.

In reality I would think a Huge Fiendish Octopus would be at a challenge (IE takes about 1/4th the party's resources to beat) at most for a level 10 party, which would put it's CR in the range that Summon Monster VIII works (CR 8-11 it seems).

[hagnat]

This thing is bigger than Hinjo's ship.
Hinjo's Junk.
Fixed.

[Kish]

Redcloak's octopus is bigger than Hinjo's junk.

Uh...:smalleek:

[Tiiba]

Redcloak's octopus is bigger than Hinjo's junk.

Uh...:smalleek:

Would you rather have it the other way around?

[Kish]

:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

[hagnat]

Redcloak's octopus is bigger than Hinjo's junk.

Uh...:smalleek:

you know someone watches too much hentai when...

[Onyavar]

Just because it is bigger, it doesn't need to be better, tougher or stronger. It's just bigger. Maybe it's harder to kill and it may have more HP, but is also slower and might have a pretty low BAB and tohit and whatever. Nothing of those stats was depicted in the comic.


There exist people who weigh three times more than a sumo fighter, but aren't stronger.

There exist cruise ships the size of an airship carrier and larger, but a comparatively small destroyer would sink them. (on the other side, cruise ships are more fun, thus better :smallwink:)

[Copperdragon]

Redcloak's octopus is bigger than Hinjo's junk.

So that is Redcloak's problem. He simply has to show the world he has the biggest Octopus in the world. Forget his attempt to put the Plan of the Dark One in action, we're at the root of his psyche here!

[Sir_Leorik]

Redcloak's octopus is bigger than Hinjo's junk.

Uh...:smalleek:

Maybe so, but Lien found the performance of Redcloak's octopus... underwhelming, to say the least. :smallwink:

[Poppatomus]

Maybe so, but Lien found the performance of Redcloak's octopus... underwhelming, to say the least. :smallwink:

As the old saying goes, it's not the size of the wave, but the motion of the sea monster.

[Coat]

Summon Monster VIII (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterVIII.htm) can summon a Fiendish Giant Squid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/squidGiant.htm) which is a huge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat) animal up to 32' long.

Which is probably the size of good-sized junk.

It also has 12HD, 10 attacks at +15 to hit, AC 17, and 70-odd HP. And 10/magic damage reduction, 10 resistance to cold and fire, and spell-resistance 17 due to being fiendish. CR 11.

Something something rules pedantry something incorrect rules pedantry.

[Copperdragon]

Maybe so, but Lien found the performance of Redcloak's octopus... underwhelming, to say the least. :smallwink:

You mean it was no match for her shark's maw?

[Chronos]

What I find funny is that the OP is trying to use dandwiki to show that Rich is wrong, when Rich is actually a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is. Heck, I'm a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is, but I digress.

[Sir_Leorik]

You mean it was no match for her shark's maw?

Let's just say Razor felt the tentacles' motion were less than vigorous. :smallbiggrin:


What I find funny is that the OP is trying to use dandwiki to show that Rich is wrong, when Rich is actually a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is. Heck, I'm a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is, but I digress.

dandwiki is not an authoritative source for D&D 3.5 rules. The Core Rules or the d20 SRD are authoritative sources for D&D 3.5 rules. There is a website that posts the d20 SRD, but it's not a wiki. I'm not sure what the current legal situation of the d20 Open Game License is; if it's still active, then dandwiki can add open content under the OGL, but that's not part of the Core Rules.

In any event, the fiendish giant octopus was drawn with artistic license. It has devil horns to show you it's fiendish, and it's big. That doesn't exactly violate the RAW. If you want to argue that Redcloak summoned an advanced fiendish giant octopus and that's not allowed, let me remind you that Magnesium and Titanium Elementals are not on the Summoned Monster lists either. If it's funny and entertaining, who cares it takes slight liberties with the rules? After all, the Magnesium and Titanium Elementals were still subject to Dismissal spells cast by the Ancient Silver Dragon and Vaarsuvius, and the Fiendish Giant Octopus didn't fare too well against a Paladin with an aquatic Paladin's Mount.

In general the Giant adheres to the rules 96% of the time. 2% of the time he makes rules errors of forgets something he did before, and 2% of the time he bends, modifies or ignores the rules to tell a better story. The thing is, The Giant has become something of a stage magician; he's so good at integrating the game mechanics into the story he wants to tell, that 85% of the readers never seem to notice the game mechanics unless they are deliberately called out. Of the remaining 15%, there are a dedicated few who dissect each page trying to work out which game mechanics The Giant used (just like some members of an audience trying to figure out how a magician performs stage magic), and another dedicated few who accuse the Giant of breaking the rules every page. IMO, these latter individuals don't know the specifics of the D&D 3.5 game mechanics as well as they think.

I personally haven't played a 3.5 game in maybe two years, but I have plenty of 3.5 rulebooks and splatbooks that I still read. Engaging in discussions about OotS minutia is interesting to me, although I'll admit I was never a maven at 3.X CharOp or Monster design. Or combat tactics, for that matter. (4E's another matter altogether; I love tinkering with the 4E Character Builder, and whether playing or DMing I can grasp the tactics much more clearly. The same goes for "Star Wars: Saga Edition", which combines rules from 3.5 and 4E. The Character Creation rules are much closer to 3.5, including the 3.5 multiclassing rules, while incorporating Talent Trees from the d20 Modern game, an early version of the Defenses from 4E, the 4E Skill system, and Force Power Suites which resemble 4E Encounter Powers in a slight way.) So I do find it interesting to discuss some of the game mechanics used in the webcomic. But I'm not going to obsess over the size of a summoned monster, or the length of the casting time of a spell, unless there's a clear reason to do so.

When it is necessary for story reasons, the casting times of spells are alluded to in the comic itself. This includes Durkon casting Control Weather during the fight with the Linear Guild in Cliffport or Durkon casting Resurrection on Roy. The former was important because it was a spell with a long casting time being cast during combat. The latter was important because V was racking up debt to the IFCC directors, and that gave her the impetus to confront Xykon in the climax of Book Four. The Giant wrote in his comments to Book Four that V had to confront Xykon while in possession of the (partial) splice, and having to wait for ten minutes with nothing to do was reason enough for the impatient Elf, drunk on her newfound arcane might.

Right now the only game mechanic that really needs to be examined in the comic is the Wormhole power Laurin keeps using. She has basically taken a very powerful 2E Psionic Science from a Dark Sun splatbook, a Science which had a huge Psionic Strength Point cost in 2E, and has had it houseruled in order to survive the transition through 3.0 and 3.5. There is a precedent for this happening in Order of the Stick, namely Zz'ditri's 3.0 version of the Fly spell, but the difference is that Z's Fly spell had one minor difference: the spell's duration was longer than the 3.5 version. Otherwise it's the same spell. Laurin is using a very power Psionic power, whose closest counterpart in the game is a 9th level Nomad power. Laurin just screams Munchkin to me. :smalltongue: (I like Laurin as a character otherwise; she and Malack were not afraid to stand up to Tarquin and demand to be treated as equals. I get the sense that Tarquin not only likes her, he respects her, and given the misogyny Tarquin regularly engages in, that's quite an acheivement.)

[allenw]

What I find funny is that the OP is trying to use dandwiki to show that Rich is wrong, when Rich is actually a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is. Heck, I'm a lot closer to being an authoritative source than dandwiki is, but I digress.

Since the dandwiki entry on the Giant Octopus (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Giant_Octopus) contains exactly the same game information as the SRD entry on the Giant Octopus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/octopusGiant.htm), in this case dandwiki is accurate, regardless of how authoritative it is.


Summon Monster VIII can summon a Fiendish Giant Squid which is a huge animal up to 32' long.
Which is probably the size of good-sized junk.

Good catch (so to speak) on the Giant Squid.
Junks, like other ocean-going ships, tended to be at least 100 feet long. (http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~vaucher/Genealogy/Documents/Asia/asiaShips.html) That being said, my (literally) thumbnail estimate of Hinjo's ship's length from this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html) is only 50-60 feet.

However! The actual body of the fiendish creature depicted is only 20'-30' across, which matches the standard (Huge) SRD "giant squid" entry (and would also match a Giant Octopus advanced to "huge"). And a Giant Squid also has 30' reach with it's tentacles (radiating outward from it's nominally-15' central space). Which means that, tentacle to tentacle, a standard Giant Squid (or Huge Giant Octopus) could span 75 feet! Which matches the picture well enough for a stick-figure comic.

So, to summarize: Rich Burlew is awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Roland Itiative]

Summon Monster VIII (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterVIII.htm) can summon a Fiendish Giant Squid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/squidGiant.htm) which is a huge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat) animal up to 32' long.

Which is probably the size of good-sized junk.

Hinjo's junk is most likely lawful-good-sized, though. That ought to affect the calculations.

[Sir_Leorik]

Hinjo's junk is most likely lawful-good-sized, though. That ought to affect the calculations.

Ah, but Hinjo inherited his junk from his uncle, Lord Shojo! And Lord Shojo's junk was Chaotic Good, not Lawful Good. The junk did not become Lawful Good until it launched.