[PF] the Shapeshifter Ranger variant... ¬¬

[ArqArturo]

I love the shapeshifter variant of the 3.5 ranger, it's awesome, it goes well on combat-oriented tree-huggers.

That being said, the PF version is hogwash :smallmad:, the damage is subpar, the benefits are very little, the monk benefits (if you multclass) are pretty much useless since most need unarmed strike instead of natural weapons, and there's not a lot of support for monstrous rangers.

However, there are a few percks. Eldritch Claws makes it easier to claw your way into things with damage reduction, And Feral Combat Training sort of gives you some perks with the combat style feats, but that's about it.

So, what are your thoughts on this archetype, is it salvageable, not worth it, worth only to dip a few levels in it?.

[Spore]

I like it. It's better than TWF early on (no penalty, always available, reasonable damage) but they get behind later on (no magical weapons except with amulet of mighty fists, no iteratives) and they certainly suck when compared to Twohanded Fighting. It's flavourful but not the best option.

[Keneth]

Why would you multiclass into monk? :smallconfused:

And yes, shapeshifter is bad. Ranger in general is bad.

[Gorfnod]

Shameless plug....

[PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248055)

[ArqArturo]

Why would you multiclass into monk? :smallconfused:

And yes, shapeshifter is bad. Ranger in general is bad.

Mostly because of: 1.- Grapple, 2.- Improved unarmed strike (so that helps with Style Feats) and 3.- Armor Bonus.

I've sort of found a way to make the ranger interesting, but, it's mainly because of a dip. You take a few levels in Ranger to get the transformation, some levels in Alchemist (for the STR mutagen) and then go into barbarian, and you get buffed real quick.


Shameless plug....

[PF Base Class] - Real Shapeshifter because the Ranger Archetype made me cry
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248055)

My sig is a continuous shameless plug of my in-the-works Warmage Guidebook :smallbiggrin:.

[grarrrg]

However, there are a few percks. Eldritch Claws makes it easier to claw your way into things with damage reduction, And Feral Combat Training sort of gives you some perks with the combat style feats, but that's about it.

So, what are your thoughts on this archetype, is it salvageable, not worth it, worth only to dip a few levels in it?.

I find it hilarious that the "perks" you list can be taken by any Ranger with the Natural Combat Style, and have nothing to do with Shapeshifter.

But yeah...the shifting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/shapeshifter) bonuses are pretty "meh".
Ranger Level+WIS rounds can get to a decent duration, but you are hampered by 1/day use of the ability until level 8.

Form of Bear seems nice, but Enhancement bonuses are fairly common/easy to get. I find it funny that the speed "penalty" isn't an actual penalty. It sets you to a base speed of 20. Merfolk have a base speed of 5ft. I smell combo!

Form of the Cat...doesn't seem super helpful.

Form of Dragon grants a +2 Natural AC (doesn't stack, hardly anything 'natural AC' stacks).

Form of Eagle gives you a +10 Bonus to Perception! Which, due to the strict X/day limit, and fairly short duration means very little. Unless you know an ambush is going to happen _soon_, it isn't much help. If you are also the party Trapfinder, than I see potential.

Form of Jackal, FINALLY something with actual Combat potential. As a Move action you can move up to 1/2 your speed without provoking AoO's. No need to worry about threatened squares. No need to worry about making a 'tumble check'. Just straight, flat out NO AoO's.

Form of the Otter, gain a Swim Speed of 30ft. and +8 on Swim checks. Wow. Can you say "situational"?

Level 12 lets you combine TWO sub-par bonuses!
Level 20 may actually be decent. Good luck getting that far.

Verdict: Crud. You're much better off just taking the Natural Combat Style, and choosing a different archetype.
The main thing Shapeshifter trades away is Favored Terrain. What else can you get for Favored Terrain?
Deep Walker, Infiltrator, and Urban Ranger.
Deep Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/deep-walker) is the least helpful of the bunch, really only being good Underground. But if most of your campaign is underground, he can be freaking awesome.
Infiltrator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/infiltrator) is almost a pure upgrade from Shapeshifter. MUCH wider selection of abilities, and the duration is 10 minutes per level (must be used in 10 minute increments). Some of the abilities are similar, but generally weaker, for example, you could get Skill Focus (Perception) as a bonus feat, this will only be +3 (or +6) instead of the Eagle's +10, but with almost 100 times the duration...well...no brainer. The only catch is that the abilities you can get are determined by your Favored Enemies.
Urban Ranger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/urban-ranger) is a pretty average archetype. The main bonus is being able to get Trapfinding for Magical traps.

[ArqArturo]

I find it hilarious that the "perks" you list can be taken by any Ranger with the Natural Combat Style, and have nothing to do with Shapeshifter.

I'm wondering if a Wild-shaping druid could make use of a level or two ranger levels. Of course, you'd be losing spellcasting, so I guess it's better to be a full-blooded CoDzilla.

[grarrrg]

I'm wondering if a Wild-shaping druid could make use of a level or two ranger levels. Of course, you'd be losing spellcasting, so I guess it's better to be a full-blooded CoDzilla.

Yes, they can.
Ranger 1/Druid 19
Shapeshifting Hunter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shapeshifting-hunter) feat.

[ArqArturo]

Ok, that's really awesome!.