Pathfinder Unarmed Character?

[kreenlover]

Is there any way to get viable unarmed strike damage throughout your adventuring career without being a monk or unarmed fighter?

I am specifically looking at an unarmed rogue

[Bhaakon]

"Throughout" is tough. There is a Ninja Trick that will get you monk progression -4 at level 10. Before that, you'll have to rely on sneak attack to boost damage. Fortunately, there are feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/knockout-artist) to help (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-adept-combat) with that,
(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-master-combat) if you don't mind dealing nonlethal damage.

[magotter]

Not precisely the same, but several races and classes besides fighter and monk can grant you Claw and Bite natural attacks. It's not easy to progress the damage on them either, mind you. But this is made up by the fact that you just get more attacks since you can use natural attacks and weapon attacks together and get a whirling dervish of hits.

[Spore]

Specifically unarmed or are natural weapons fine as well? You could always go Beast Totem Barbarian or Natural Weapon style Ranger. In addition to that the monk archetype "Martial Artist" takes out a lot of that annoying "I am not a Shaolin but I fight like one" feeling.

For an unarmed rogue just use the thug get unarmed strike via feat and be a Big Stupid Rogue. Gut punching galore.

[Psyren]

Seconding Ninja - you don't need Monk progression, since IUS + Sneak Attack is enough to outdamage most monks anyway, and you can get IUS at level 2 as a Ninja Trick if you want to save a feat too. Ninja's ki makes it child's play to tumble and flip around the battlefield to take up a flanking position, and unlike a rogue or monk, your invisibility and mirror image help you survive in melee so that flanking is a breeze.



For an unarmed rogue just use the thug get unarmed strike via feat and be a Big Stupid Rogue. BALL KICKING galore.

FTFY :smallwink:

But I advise against Thug, it's not very good. Frightened is a hit-or-miss condition - sometimes it works well and sometimes it just makes the fight annoying as the enemy goes fleeing helter-skelter and has to be corralled. And your DC for getting there is going to be ridiculously high even for a skill check - you're looking at a minimum of DC 26 even vs. a 1 HD foe with no Wis bonus.

[MightyPirate]

Yeah thug is pretty bad, unless you take enforcer. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat) That makes hitting 4 rounds of shaken quite simple and I believe you can use your AoO from their running away to stack a shaken that will persist after frightened wears off. Silly that you can't stack shaken with itself using demoralize but you can stack it with frightened. This approach plays nicely with these too:

Fortunately, there are feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/knockout-artist) to help (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-adept-combat) with that,
(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sap-master-combat) if you don't mind dealing nonlethal damage.

Thug almost certainly gets beaten out by ninja however, even if you work towards shatter defenses. Doubly so if you're going Gnomish Ninja for this hilariously powerful feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/bewildering-koan-general). Obviously don't want to throw this unless you're already invisible for the fight or you only have one enemy to worry about.

Also I'm not sure why people are talking about natural attacking instead of unarmed strikes but if you want that route with a roguish feel you want Vivisectionist Alchemist, preferably with some Beastmorph as well.

Any class that pumps stealth decently can take Hellcat Stealth (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/hellcat-stealth) as a pseudo Vanishing Trick. You can stealth at -10 even while being observed. Just attack and five foot step after to give you considerably more survivability in melee. Weirdly this doesn't work in dim and dark light so watch out for darkvision.

[Psyren]

Bewildering Koan, in addition to potentially being broken, is also poorly worded. "Lose your next action" doesn't necessarily mean "lose your next turn," even if that's what they meant. It could just cause you to lose your swift, move or standard.

My favorite races for Ninja are Fetchling and Ifrit.

[Ravens_cry]

Bewildering Koan, in addition to potentially being broken, is also poorly worded. "Lose your next action" doesn't necessarily mean "lose your next turn," even if that's what they meant. It could just cause you to lose your swift, move or standard.

My favorite races for Ninja are Fetchling and Ifrit.
Plain old Vanilla halfling works fine. You get a plus to your two most important stats and a minus to a dump stat, and small adds to your stealth. The reduction in speed makes jumps a little harder, but Ninja's are basically the jump kings if that's your thing. I had a Ninja that never took a single rank in climb because she literally just jumped everywhere.

[Chained Birds]

Bewildering Koan, in addition to potentially being broken, is also poorly worded. "Lose your next action" doesn't necessarily mean "lose your next turn," even if that's what they meant. It could just cause you to lose your swift, move or standard.

I think this was answered on the Paizo forums where it actually does make them lose their turn, like a Daze without it actually being a Daze Condition.

I could be wrong, but I do recall a thread where people were talking about the implications of Bewildering Koan, and eventually were linked to the creator (I think) stating it was intended to make the target lose their turn. But no errata at the moment, so a DM can go either way I suppose.

[Psyren]

No, you're right, SKR did clarify it to be their turn.

I would definitely apply some of the Bluff penalties to this (if used on a boss monster) or just ban it outright.

EDIT: Or, I might add the same restriction as Daze - if you fall victim to this you are then immune for a minute. Thus it is still useful as a way to take away a monster's turn, but it can't be used to stunlock.

[Ravens_cry]

No, you're right, SKR did clarify it to be their turn.

I would definitely apply some of the Bluff penalties to this (if used on a boss monster) or just ban it outright.

EDIT: Or, I might add the same restriction as Daze - if you fall victim to this you are then immune for a minute. Thus it is still useful as a way to take away a monster's turn, but it can't be used to stunlock.
Where is this restriction from?

[Psyren]

Where is this restriction from?

Because cantrips in Pathfinder are at-will, that restriction was added to the Daze spell so that a caster couldn't dazelock their target indefinitely.

[Ravens_cry]

Because cantrips in Pathfinder are at-will, that restriction was added to the Daze spell so that a caster couldn't dazelock their target indefinitely.
Oh I see, I thought you meant daze the condition as opposed to Daze the spell.

[Psyren]

Oh I see, I thought you meant daze the condition as opposed to Daze the spell.

That's why I capitalized it :smallbiggrin: