How to cast, a quest to master Divine and Arcane.

[ShadowFireLance]

Hello all, I am here with a question I have quite failed at figuring out.
Is there any way at 20th level, To have 9th Level Arcane and Divine Spells? Preferably without massive dipping, but if it must, it must.

Any ideas?

[Doc_Maynot]

Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/(Arcane Class X)

So, Wizard 9/Ur-Priest2/Mystic Theurge 8 Will get you there at level 19

[Emperor Tippy]

Plenty.

Factotum 8/Ur-Priest 2/Beholder Mage 2/ Mystic Theuge 7/ X 1

Replace the Factotum with whatever you want, but this way you get Cunning Surge.

PAO into a Beholder or True Mind Switch with one.

---
Illithid Savant can just eat the brains to gain the casting ability of both.

Wizard 5/ Bard 1/ X 3/ Ur-Priest 1/Sublime Cord 1/ Mystic Theuge 9

Bard 7/ X 2/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Cord 1/ Mystic Theuge 8 also works.

That isn't a complete list.

You can actually get triple 9's (Arcane, Divine, Manifesting) by level 20 if you really try (although I prefer just Psion 20 with the spells you want on your powers known list).

[Psyren]

Ur-Theurge
Rainbow Warsnake
Divine Crusader Theurge
Sha'ir 20

[Emperor Tippy]

Sha'ir 20
Ah the other "Sorcerer as it should have been" (it's Sha'ir or Psion depending upon my mood).

[ShadowFireLance]

[QUOTE=Doc_Maynot]Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/(Arcane Class X)

So, Wizard 9/Ur-Priest2/Mystic Theurge 8 Will get you there at level 19[/QU
OTE]

This..Works, Thanks!

To Tippy:
...Why, Just...Why must you break the poor system?

[Doc_Maynot]

Not a problem, have fun with it!

[Yogibear41]

Is their a way to get all 3 level 9s (psi, arc, divine) by 20 without beholder mage? (preferably wiz/cleric/psion lists) obviously advancing ur-priest is the divine part of the equation, best I could get without beholder mage is 7th level wizard spells, 9th level cleric spells, and 5th level psion powers by level 19, perhaps I am just not trying hard enough :smallsmile:

[Mystral]

[QUOTE=Doc_Maynot]Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/(Arcane Class X)

So, Wizard 9/Ur-Priest2/Mystic Theurge 8 Will get you there at level 19[/QU
OTE]

This..Works, Thanks!

To Tippy:
...Why, Just...Why must you break the poor system?

It also requires your character to be an Ur-Priest, so he has to be evil, which does not fit into many campaigns. The alignment requirement can of course be houseruled away, as I would do.

[Vaz]

Phaerimm Hatchling, LA Bought off.
Ardent 3/Practised Manifester and Orange Ioum Stone
Initiator class 2
Ur Priest 1
Psychic Theurge 9
Legacy Champion 5

That gets 20th level Sorcerer Casting, 10th Level Ur Priest, up to 17pp. Initiator Levels work out as 15.

Without Bloodline abuse this nets you 9th level arcane, 9th level divine, 9th level Psionics, and 8th level initiator levels

[Ruethgar]

Human Paragon 1/Bloodline 3/STP Erudite 1/ Chameleon 2/ STP Erudite 16 gets you the effects of all spells at their lowest levels(juicy trapmaster) without material components([War] spells are your friend) and all psionic abilities below 9th plus any 9th you can find. Technically you could fill the bloodline levels with some levels from the 16 Erudite, but I like the early chameleon entry. Is that close enough to 9th level arcane/divine/psionic? (oh you need Arcane Disciple and to use Customize Domain as your floating feat to make all of the divine spells arcane so you can use them as powers)

Edit: Bah, beaten with actual casting and initiator levels.

With the Erudite you also get infinite casting with Mental Pinnacle. The unique powers per day kind of suck, but it is doable. Mental Pinnacle covers some of your ability and you wouldn't have to waste slots on what it provides.

[Yogibear41]

So, Phaerimm Hatchlings.... learn something broken and new everyday :smallsmile: Also never seen psychic theurge before, new something like it had to exist somewhere just never actually googled it.

[eggynack]

You can do it in a pretty basic way with something like wizard 3/druid 3/mystic theurge 2/arcane hierophant 10/mystic theurge 2. The only thing stopping a regular mystic theurge from hitting dual 9's is that it doesn't have any efficient advancement methods after you max out, and arcane heirophant does the job. You could probably do it better with early entry tricks or whatever, but it's nice to have a completely and utterly uncheesy and clearly game intended method.

[TuggyNE]

Hello all, I am here with a question I have quite failed at figuring out.
Is there any way at 20th level, To have 9th Level Arcane and Divine Spells? Preferably without massive dipping, but if it must, it must.

Any ideas?

For future reference, SFL, the search term you might use would be "dual 9ths D&D" or similar. Of course, you seem to have gotten most of the dual and even triple ninths build outlines listed here, because if there's anything the Playground excels at, it's overachieving.

[Omegonthesane]

The easy method of course is Wizard 3 / Druid 3 / Arcane Hierophant 10 / Mystic Theurge 4, if you for some stupid reason only care about 20th level performance.

[Psyren]

Ah the other "Sorcerer as it should have been" (it's Sha'ir or Psion depending upon my mood).

What I love about them is that they can get 9th-level Arcanes, 9th-level Divines and Dark Invocations in the same build without cheese.

[Vaz]

So, Phaerimm Hatchlings.... learn something broken and new everyday :smallsmile: Also never seen psychic theurge before, new something like it had to exist somewhere just never actually googled it.

Yup; they had a Cerebromancer, which was Arcane/Psionic; it took a web expansion to provide a Divine/Psionic.

In regards to the Phaerimm Hatchlings, they have the ability to cast Arcane Spells as SLA's; so no Material Cost; have fun with Stoneskin, or Forcecage, and free Silent/Still.

[Doc_Maynot]

Is their a way to get all 3 level 9s (psi, arc, divine) by 20 without beholder mage? (preferably wiz/cleric/psion lists) obviously advancing ur-priest is the divine part of the equation, best I could get without beholder mage is 7th level wizard spells, 9th level cleric spells, and 5th level psion powers by level 19, perhaps I am just not trying hard enough :smallsmile:

STP Erudite 9/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 8 gets you there by level 19

[Vaz]

Psion does exactly the same; without the limitations of the Erudite. It just adds another link to the chain that you use to gain the Divine > Arcane > StP > Psion chain.

As Tippy says, anything an Erudite can do, a Psion can do better.

However, you're not actually casting Arcane Spells, you're manifesting still.

It's like Psionic Enervation being Enervation; it's technically not.

[tcrudisi]

Phaerimm Hatchling, LA Bought off.
Ardent 3/Practised Manifester and Orange Ioum Stone
Initiator class 2
Ur Priest 1
Psychic Theurge 9
Legacy Champion 5

That gets 20th level Sorcerer Casting, 10th Level Ur Priest, up to 17pp. Initiator Levels work out as 15.

Without Bloodline abuse this nets you 9th level arcane, 9th level divine, 9th level Psionics, and 8th level initiator levels

Would you be so kind as to break this down a bit more for someone who hasn't played 3.5 since 4e came out? It's just a bit confusing to me.

I've done a bit of research and pulled out my old 3.5 books to look up this information, but I'm still confused.

Ardent - Complete Psionic, no pre-reqs
Initiator - Tome of Battle? Does any "initiator" class work? So this build could be a Crusader or Swordsage?
Ur-Priest - Complete Divine. I'm actually fairly familiar with this one. Requires Iron Will and Spell Focus (evil), so I guess this means your level 1 and 3 feats are already being taken up.
Psychic Theurge - From the wizards website. However, I note that it requires 2nd level divine spells. Where are these coming from? Ur-Priest 1 only gives level 1 divine spells.
Legacy Champion - From Weapons of Legacy. This one is completely new to me. It gives +4 levels of existing class features. What do you apply this to? Psychic Theurge? Ardent? Initiator?

I'm confused as to how it gets 15 levels of Initiator levels and I'm not familiar with the abbreviation of 17pp.

Basically, would you be so kind as to break this down a little bit more? It looks like an interesting build and I'd like to understand it more.

Thanks!

[Seer_of_Heart]

Just today I thought up a triple 9s build. With LA buyoff and a major bloodline you can make a Duergar psion 1/beholder mage 1/Cerebremancer 9/Ur-Priest 1/Psychic theurge 8. You get 9th level arcane spells at level 10, 9th level powers at level 19, and divine spells at level 20.

[Emperor Tippy]

Would you be so kind as to break this down a bit more for someone who hasn't played 3.5 since 4e came out? It's just a bit confusing to me.
Phaerimm (Lost Empires of FR) get Sorcerer spellcasting (except all spells are SLA's) equal to character level. A Phaerimm Hatchling has 1 HD (which is replaced by a PC level) and +2 LA (which can be fully bought off). This means that at level 18+ you get 9th level arcane casting.

Psychic Theuge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) advances both manifesting and divine casting. Not exactly sure where he is pulling the early entry on the divine side from (Ur-Priest 1 doesn't give you second level divine spells but Ur-Priest 2 does). However, Ur-Priest 2/ PT 7 get's 9th level divines.

Ardent (Complete Psionics) get powers based on ML so Ardent 3 + PM + Ioun Stone + 9 is ML of 17 and thus 9th level powers.

I'm not sure why he only has 1 level of Ur-Priest as you need second level divine spells for PT (which requires Ur-Priest 2).

Ur-Priest is a complete divine PrC that gives 9th level divine spellcasting in 9 levels of the class.

Legacy Champion (Weapons of Legacy) advances another class as if you had gained a level in said class. Used with an Initiator Class it gives you +1.5 IL per level, or +6.5 IL. For an IL of 2+6.5+6 (or 14.5 total).

[Ruethgar]

Sanctum Spell can grant entry with just the one Ur Priest level. Also note that "in most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level." It also says to look in chapter 5 for details, but apart from the very few(far from the touted most case scenario) prestige classes presented in the book, it provides no rules for determining whether or not a class advances 1:1. So your initiator level is up to level 23 if Ur Priest, Legacy Champion and Psychic Theurge fall into the category of "most cases."

[Carth]

Be different! Wizard1/druid3/mystic theurge4/arcane hierophant10/mystic theurge+2

Requires precocious apprentice shenanigans for early theurge entry. 17th level wizard casting, 19th level druid casting, 13th level wildshaping (arguably, based on the example character), 13th level animal companion with the additional abilities of an 11th level familiar (familiar and animal companion become one creature), and channel plant and animal can be pretty handy.

[Ramza00]

Be different! Wizard1/druid3/mystic theurge4/arcane hierophant10/mystic theurge +2.

I would agree with this build but instead do improved sigil krau with illuminant race for a more legal early entry

[tcrudisi]

Phaerimm (Lost Empires of FR) get Sorcerer spellcasting (except all spells are SLA's) equal to character level. A Phaerimm Hatchling has 1 HD (which is replaced by a PC level) and +2 LA (which can be fully bought off). This means that at level 18+ you get 9th level arcane casting.

Psychic Theuge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) advances both manifesting and divine casting. Not exactly sure where he is pulling the early entry on the divine side from (Ur-Priest 1 doesn't give you second level divine spells but Ur-Priest 2 does). However, Ur-Priest 2/ PT 7 get's 9th level divines.

Ardent (Complete Psionics) get powers based on ML so Ardent 3 + PM + Ioun Stone + 9 is ML of 17 and thus 9th level powers.

I'm not sure why he only has 1 level of Ur-Priest as you need second level divine spells for PT (which requires Ur-Priest 2).

Ur-Priest is a complete divine PrC that gives 9th level divine spellcasting in 9 levels of the class.

Legacy Champion (Weapons of Legacy) advances another class as if you had gained a level in said class. Used with an Initiator Class it gives you +1.5 IL per level, or +6.5 IL. For an IL of 2+6.5+6 (or 14.5 total).

Thanks! (10 characters)

[Vaz]

Phaerimm (Lost Empires of FR) get Sorcerer spellcasting (except all spells are SLA's) equal to character level. A Phaerimm Hatchling has 1 HD (which is replaced by a PC level) and +2 LA (which can be fully bought off). This means that at level 18+ you get 9th level arcane casting.

Psychic Theuge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) advances both manifesting and divine casting. Not exactly sure where he is pulling the early entry on the divine side from (Ur-Priest 1 doesn't give you second level divine spells but Ur-Priest 2 does). However, Ur-Priest 2/ PT 7 get's 9th level divines.

Ardent (Complete Psionics) get powers based on ML so Ardent 3 + PM + Ioun Stone + 9 is ML of 17 and thus 9th level powers.

I'm not sure why he only has 1 level of Ur-Priest as you need second level divine spells for PT (which requires Ur-Priest 2).

Ur-Priest is a complete divine PrC that gives 9th level divine spellcasting in 9 levels of the class.

Legacy Champion (Weapons of Legacy) advances another class as if you had gained a level in said class. Used with an Initiator Class it gives you +1.5 IL per level, or +6.5 IL. For an IL of 2+6.5+6 (or 14.5 total).

My bad.

However Alternate Spell source allows you to qualify which you can PsyRef out (or contentious readings of Versatile Spellcaster, again, which you can PsyRef out). Of course, the built relies on contentious builds; Ardent manifesting which is not intended to be as such, Phaerimm which are arguably not PC material, Legacy Champion advancing classes at 1.5* rather than only 1.0 speed...

Still, the purpose was to break the game, and you've effectively got it.

[Waker]

It also requires your character to be an Ur-Priest, so he has to be evil, which does not fit into many campaigns. The alignment requirement can of course be houseruled away, as I would do.

You could go Apostle of Peace in place of Ur Priest if you feel the need to fit in with all the goody goodies.