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View Full Version : [Advice] I kinda hate my game right now.



RFLS
2013-10-24, 12:55 AM
So, I've got a bit of a dilemma. I'm currently DMing an IRL game for my girlfriend and a group of our friends. Going into the game, I knew a few things:


The attendance would be inconsistent at best.
The role-playing would be sub-par at best.
The above two are fine; everyone's showing up for a good time with friends and some junk food.


So, when I sat down to plan the game, I asked myself what sort of game could tolerate the above points. I settled on running a game set in a magitechy, mildly futuristic setting - similar to Shadowrun, but more magic than tech. The entire point of the game was that the players were contestants in a dungeon-crawling TV show (X-Crawl, for anyone that's come across it before).

Here's the problem: I hate running this game. Planning it is a drag. It's not interesting. The players like their characters, though, so I can't just up and change the game, because, well...that's a crappy thing to do.

So....advice? We've been at it for ~10 sessions so far, for reference.

Kaun
2013-10-24, 12:57 AM
you don't like making dungeons or you just plain dont like any of it?

huttj509
2013-10-24, 01:19 AM
Man, I love the idea of X-crawl. Never gotten to play it though.

Just to Browse
2013-10-24, 01:22 AM
So you're DMing a game that everyone but you is having fun in?

I'm going to tell you what every person with common sense tells everyone with problems ever: Talk to the them about it

Kerpow knocked that out of the park.

Shinizak
2013-10-24, 01:51 AM
So you're DMing a game that everyone but you is having fun in?

I'm going to tell you what every person with common sense tells everyone with problems ever: Talk to the them about it

Kerpow knocked that out of the park.

This is usually the best thing, but it would also help if you told us what you specifically don't like about the game.

veti
2013-10-24, 02:20 AM
If planning it is a drag, how about - you do less planning?

If you can figure out some way to stimulate the PCs to be more proactive, find things that they actually want to do rather than pointless dungeon crawls "because they're there", then they'll be driving more of the agenda. You'll probably have to make up a lot more setting, and because you can't always anticipate the players, you'll probably end up making quite a lot of it on the fly. But you might find that more stimulating than what you're currently doing.

Just a thought.

mig el pig
2013-10-24, 04:36 AM
The entire point of the game was that the players were contestants in a dungeon-crawling TV show (X-Crawl, for anyone that's come across it before).

I don't know the specific concept of X-Crawl but maybe you can spice it up a bit.

"Introduce a second party who's also gunning for the price, maybe it's composed of an All-star team of people who have won the game in the past."
"They are liberated by a terrorist group that want to ends the game once and for all, in reality they are just a part of the game."
"a lone crazed survivor of a previous edition."

nedz
2013-10-24, 06:37 AM
Introduce a Portal Gun. This is a gimmick which they will have fun with for a while, until it malfunctions. When that happens they are cast into another dimension ...

I'll leave the rest blank because basically you have jumped into another setting.

But would this help ?
If not then I suspect that it's the players you're bored with.

RFLS
2013-10-24, 07:56 AM
you don't like making dungeons or you just plain dont like any of it?


This is usually the best thing, but it would also help if you told us what you specifically don't like about the game.

Oops - you're absolutely right, I should have detailed that in the OP. I apologize.

I have a few things that have been bothering me -


Whenever I give them an opportunity to roleplay, or hell, even just do something other than "kill the thing that's in our way," they go with the Hulksmash option.
The game is nothing but dungeons. This partly follows from the last - I'm terrified of what they'd do if they were, say, at a party.
What they do in the game is entirely unimportant. It does not matter one iota if they win or lose, and it just...makes it really hard to be invested in the game. I recognize that this last one is pretty much entirely on me, and I'm working on it.

RFLS
2013-10-24, 07:57 AM
If planning it is a drag, how about - you do less planning?

If you can figure out some way to stimulate the PCs to be more proactive, find things that they actually want to do rather than pointless dungeon crawls "because they're there", then they'll be driving more of the agenda. You'll probably have to make up a lot more setting, and because you can't always anticipate the players, you'll probably end up making quite a lot of it on the fly. But you might find that more stimulating than what you're currently doing.

Just a thought.

This is a good suggestion - I've actually tried it with this group in the past. They're one of those rare groups that wants to be led by the nose through the game. It's near impossible to get them to care.

Segev
2013-10-24, 08:22 AM
I have a few things that have been bothering me -


Whenever I give them an opportunity to roleplay, or hell, even just do something other than "kill the thing that's in our way," they go with the Hulksmash option.
The game is nothing but dungeons. This partly follows from the last - I'm terrified of what they'd do if they were, say, at a party.
What they do in the game is entirely unimportant. It does not matter one iota if they win or lose, and it just...makes it really hard to be invested in the game. I recognize that this last one is pretty much entirely on me, and I'm working on it.


Okay. You're running it in one of two possible modes for X-Crawl.

The other one is to actually put on-screen their out-of-adventure times. Make sure they are familiar with the laws of the setting (I mean that in the most typical sense: the North American Empire is a country with laws both recognizable to modern real-world people and additionally has some dealing with magic, licensing, and the like. It's also a totalitarian Roman-Empire-esq regime). Then let them play being major sports stars for a while. Do send them to parties. Offer them sponsorship opportunities, and then give them PR rivals who will fight them for the prize in Crawls and who will seek to best them in the realm of public opinion.

Have them be used in plots by politicians to bolster their own reps or to try to undermine those of their political rivals.

Give them crazy stalkers.

Let them play out one of those all-expenses-paid vacations they win. Have a murder mystery or something happen. Remember that murder mysteries rarely result in a fight scene; it's all about figuring out whodunnit and proving it enough that they can't avoid being arrested. Maybe frame one of them for it by using their signature move to do the killing.

Make them feel the need for a trustworthy agent, manager, and legal representative on call. Maybe let them navigate the adventure of FINDING one or more of these, because the "default" one is cheating them or is incompetent or is otherwise not serving them well. Have the adventure start with discovering how his failure of his duties is costing them. Maybe they get booked in a Crawl incorrectly, or their equipment wasn't properly registered this time, or something. Give them reasons to look into the non-Crawl aspects by having them impact their Crawls a little.

But to make sure they don't resort to "hulk smash" out of Crawls, make sure to point out that they're basically football and wrestling stars; they can get away with some things (especially with a good lawyer and PR agent), but resorting to Crawl-style violence in the "real world" will get them arrested and possibly sentenced. IF they DO resort to that kind of thing when you send them to a party or the like, make the trial its own adventure.

(And, if they try to play it like adventurers against the entire evil empire, remind them that there are very, very powerful spellcasters and warriors who work for the enforcement branches of the NAE. It might wind up with a TPK, but at that point, they brought it on themselves and maybe the game wasn't ever going to be fun for you.)

Do discuss it with them a bit. Maybe drop the plot hooks for them to know there's something beyond the Crawl to play on-screen. But talk to the players OOC and let them know that part of the reason you're introducing these elements is because simply planning the Crawls is boring you to tears, and you want more aspects of the setting brought into the game. Let some of the initial hooks be mostly optional; see what they bite on.

Lorsa
2013-10-24, 08:54 AM
If you're not happy playing a game then don't play it. That goes for everyone involved. Or perhaps I should say "if you don't have sufficient motivation" because sometimes you can be unhappy with a game and still find it worthwhile to play for other reasons.

And as always; talk to your group about your problems.

Jornophelanthas
2013-10-24, 10:18 AM
Disclaimer: I know nothing about the setting you are using.



I have a few things that have been bothering me -


Whenever I give them an opportunity to roleplay, or hell, even just do something other than "kill the thing that's in our way," they go with the Hulksmash option.[/list
- Offer them situations where "Hulksmash" is not an option. For example, give them a puzzle that they need to solve, and rule out brute force in advance. Possibly even as part of the "rules" (e.g. disqualification for using magic). This "X-crawl" thing does have in-character rules, right?

- If the players have any NPC friends, allies or love interests, pit these against them as opponents, and have these NPCs clearly communicate that they don't want to fight (but don't know what else to do). In other words, force the players to do some thinking/roleplaying here.
(Of course, if the players soundly hurt/maim/kill their NPC friends, have them deal with the collateral damage to the friendship afterwards. Including the in-character reproachful comments of "You could have chosen not to do it".)

- Build up a situation where the players are tempted to lose a fight in order to get something they want, which is better than the reward for winning. Bonus points if not all players think the same way about whether they want to win or lose (so they will have to deal with this amongst themselves first).


[list] The game is nothing but dungeons. This partly follows from the last - I'm terrified of what they'd do if they were, say, at a party.
This has already been covered in a previous post: Change it. Have them play out all the behind-the-scenes stuff. Including parties. And have the characters' behaviour during those scenes influence the way the gameshow audience (and organisation) treats them.
(e.g. If one of the characters punches an interviewer in the face on live television, they should expect their popularity to decrease, and perhaps even the organisers of the "X-crawl" to throw tougher opponents their way, just to spite them (and amuse the now-hostile audience).


What they do in the game is entirely unimportant. It does not matter one iota if they win or lose, and it just...makes it really hard to be invested in the game. I recognize that this last one is pretty much entirely on me, and I'm working on it.

Raise the stakes, so it does matter!

- Have some kind of tournament take place with a fabulous grand prize (e.g. "Make a wish, and we will make it come true."). Or the opposite: if contestants lose too many times in a row, they will be executed for the entertainment of the audience.

- Use characters' backstories (if any) to raise the stakes. Does one of them have a sickly little sister who needs expensive life-saving surgery soon? Does one of them have a love interest who will only notice them if they become champion of the upcoming X-crawl championship? Winning will make that possible! (Basicallly, look at cheesy sports movies for inspiration.)

Or change the premise entirely:

- Based on their recent successes, the PCs have gained the attention of some (government?) agency or corporation, who want to hire them for "special operations". And they won't take "no" for an answer.
If the players say "yes", the game show aspect ends, as they are relocated and deployed for whatever missions the organisation wants them to do.
If they say "no", then the game show goes on, but the angry organisation will now actively try to sabotage the players in their efforts, in order to blackmail/intimidate/deceive them into changing their minds. This may include bribing officials, and may result in unwinnable encounters, i.e. keys that don't fit when they should, doors that won't open when they should, etc. And PC reputations may suffer. (Perhaps the organisation may even want to kill them, because it deems the PCs to be too dangerous to be on anyone else's payroll.)

- Or be even more devious about it: have TWO organisations contact the players this way, and have these be sworn enemies.

Segev
2013-10-24, 10:25 AM
Some good ideas in that post. As a note, however, since the X-Crawl are the Bread & Circuses of the NAE, anybody messing with it by removing popular teams from it would NOT be treated well. Far more likely would be having a(n unrealistic, in the real world) scenario where they do Crawls that serve as covers for traveling them to mission sites, if they're doing work for one or more of the multifarious secret organizations.

Jornophelanthas
2013-10-24, 02:30 PM
anybody messing with it by removing popular teams from it would NOT be treated well.

Which only means the popularity needs to be removed before the team is removed.

AMFV
2013-10-24, 02:37 PM
Try more improvisational DMing. I find that for me the best DMing is when I'm on the fly. Which is ironic because when I play as a character I love methodical planning and the like, but when I DM, not planning gives me an opportunity to react organically to the players, and insert awesome ideas almost as soon as they pop into my head.

It does result in a slightly sillier game though, but there can be a lot of fun involved in it, and my players seem to be having a good time, so that's all I can ask for.

I find that if you want your players to do non-combat solutions, the best solution is to railroad them like mad the first few times, have an easy obvious non-combat solution and the other option be an impossibly difficult combat.

valadil
2013-10-24, 03:38 PM
The game is nothing but dungeons. This partly follows from the last - I'm terrified of what they'd do if they were, say, at a party.


The nice thing about dungeons is that there are lots of premade ones out there. If you don't like prepping for this game, don't. Get some premade campaign, reskin it where necessary, and run that.

Why are you terrified? Because they'll implode? If you're not invested in the game, why not let them blow it up? Sometimes it's fun for a character or game to self combust on its own terms.

Trinoya
2013-10-24, 03:55 PM
If you are not having fun then don't run it. Talk to your players about how to salvage their characters and run a game that you will have fun in, but don't drag out being miserable. It will just destroy your group.

Kaun
2013-10-24, 05:13 PM
You could run a session or two more... do something climactic.. call it an end of season. Tell the group you need a brake from this game for a month or two.

Run something your more interested in as a palette cleanser in the mean time.

Then after a couple of sessions of something else see what your group wants to do.

An uninterested GM makes for a boring game in the long run.

My personal motto now is; When i am going to run a game, pick something i am really interested in and then find players who want to play it. Players are dumb and have no idea what they want anyway :smalltongue:!

EDIT: If you are continuing on though THIS (http://www.wizardawn.com/rpg/) might help.

Tim Proctor
2013-10-24, 05:46 PM
I would say to break it up with a game of Fiasco, its super fun with friends and afterwards I find that people really want to start role-playing.

I'd just use a random dungeon generator and random encounter generators, makes the planning super easy.

To introduce more role-playing I'd say that the show came under new management and they are going with the RealityTV feel and they have to start doing interviews and such... have someone explain what the dungeon is and then have each person answer 10 questions before and after the dungeon about what they expect what they've done, etc. I'd also have them give commentary during the dungeon whenever you feel like it. I'm sure there are lists of questions reality show contestants get asked.

That's my advice.

nedz
2013-10-24, 06:52 PM
Just have the Network cancel the show and then throw them onto the set of "Dancing with the Stars" (I believe that's the US version of "Strictly Come Dancing" ). Let the carnage begin. :smallbiggrin:

TheDarkSaint
2013-10-25, 11:47 AM
It honestly sounds like they would rather play a wargame than a roleplaying game.

40k's Necromunda is a small scale skirmish game that might be right up their alley.

I've got players kind of like what you have, so I'm just running them through The Sunless citadel series by WotC. Super easy on my part and they seem to enjoy it.

Kish
2013-10-27, 12:19 PM
If you're not having fun, and have no reason to expect that to change (and if you see such a reason, I sure don't from what you've said) step down as DM. Let one of them take it over, if s/he wants to. But you don't owe it to them to run a game.

Trying to change their playstyles would be a mistake if they're perfectly happy with the playstyles they have. It's not a "their playstyle needs to change" issue and it's certainly not a "your playstyle needs to change" issue. It's a "your playstyles are incompatible" issue. The fact that one of them is your girlfriend may make, e.g., you playing with one RPG group and her playing with a separate RPG group and your not playing together awkward, but one of you suffering through a group that has a playstyle you don't enjoy would be more awkward even if you weren't the DM.

Scow2
2013-10-27, 12:47 PM
This has already been covered in a previous post: Change it. Have them play out all the behind-the-scenes stuff. Including parties. And have the characters' behaviour during those scenes influence the way the gameshow audience (and organisation) treats them.
(e.g. If one of the characters punches an interviewer in the face on live television, they should expect their popularity to decrease, and perhaps even the organisers of the "X-crawl" to throw tougher opponents their way, just to spite them (and amuse the now-hostile audience).Why would the popularity of the contestants suffer for getting a reputation for 'sticking it to the man'? If anything, punching an interviewer for being an annoying twit might make the popularity of the person soar - even after they pay off the assault charge.



Raise the stakes, so it does matter!

- Have some kind of tournament take place with a fabulous grand prize (e.g. "Make a wish, and we will make it come true."). Or the opposite: if contestants lose too many times in a row, they will be executed for the entertainment of the audience.

- Use characters' backstories (if any) to raise the stakes. Does one of them have a sickly little sister who needs expensive life-saving surgery soon? Does one of them have a love interest who will only notice them if they become champion of the upcoming X-crawl championship? Winning will make that possible! (Basicallly, look at cheesy sports movies for inspiration.)

Or change the premise entirely:

- Based on their recent successes, the PCs have gained the attention of some (government?) agency or corporation, who want to hire them for "special operations". And they won't take "no" for an answer.
If the players say "yes", the game show aspect ends, as they are relocated and deployed for whatever missions the organisation wants them to do.
If they say "no", then the game show goes on, but the angry organisation will now actively try to sabotage the players in their efforts, in order to blackmail/intimidate/deceive them into changing their minds. This may include bribing officials, and may result in unwinnable encounters, i.e. keys that don't fit when they should, doors that won't open when they should, etc. And PC reputations may suffer. (Perhaps the organisation may even want to kill them, because it deems the PCs to be too dangerous to be on anyone else's payroll.)

- Or be even more devious about it: have TWO organisations contact the players this way, and have these be sworn enemies.I like and suggest these ideas, though... but if the players want to be dungeon crawlers, and DON'T like taking the game away from that direction, be sure to allow them to keep things going. Unwinnable situation? Win anyway.

If you try to go "There's more to the game than just hack-and-slash', don't be surprised if the players say "No there isn't," then prove it.

SimonMoon6
2013-10-27, 03:17 PM
I'll echo the flip the script ideas.

Suddenly, a portal opens up and they're in another world. Maybe it's Murphy's World or maybe it's another generic fantasy world or maybe it's something else completely different (the Paranoia game setting?). Their hack and slash tactics may not get them too far. They might soon have armies after them, giving them time to rethink their strategies (or not). And all along, they might wonder: is this still part of the game show?

huttj509
2013-10-27, 05:02 PM
Why would the popularity of the contestants suffer for getting a reputation for 'sticking it to the man'? If anything, punching an interviewer for being an annoying twit might make the popularity of the person soar - even after they pay off the assault charge.


Depends on if they're portraying themselves as a face or a heel.

The "nice guy saves the day hero" punching an interviewer? Scandal in the making.

The "guy people love to hate" doing so? Money in the bank.

For XCrawl, think pro wrestling + DnD + roman arena entertainment.