Pathfinder character ideas [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Nightgaun7

2013-10-25, 03:00 AM

Will be in a Pathfinder campaign soon, but I've never played it and am looking for some ideas.

Level 1
All official material allowed
deadly campaign
Other party members are a rogue, barbarian, and cleric, and I don't know much more beyond that.
Advanced players guide, ultimate combat/magic are allowed, including the class variant.
3rd party material is allowed subject to DM approval

I want to bro it up with the Cleric and be able to restrain the chaotic neutral tendencies of the rogue and barbarian somewhat.

How powerful are Paladins in Pathfinder?
Is the Harrier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/super-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/harrier) good?
Magus, Summoner, and Inquisitor all look interesting as well.

Spore

2013-10-25, 07:50 AM

Wizard, Summoner or Magus. In that order. (Perhaps the summoner will have an HUGE edge on both in Lv 1 just because he brings twice the beef).

You want some arcane spellcaster to reduce the incoming damage your barbarian takes. Otherwise he is likely the first to die. Trap monkey is second most likely (and the first out of fight).

Paladins are kind of "meh". You can play them to great effect, but I heavily prefer investing in archetypes that buff her spell casting (later on) and healing (NOW) capabilities. Tell the cleric to pick some summoning spells, defensive buffs and control spells. Be the melee. Be the healer.

The main problem of a party with a paladin is that you kind of restrict the party behaviour to things a paladin would do.

shadow_archmagi

2013-10-25, 10:15 AM

Aint no party like a party with a psion!

Psionics whoo! Less punch than Wizard, but more fun in my opinion, and it's not like "Less punch than wizard" can't be said of every other class. The whole meditation and inner strength thing ties in well with Lawful characters thematically.

Spore

2013-10-25, 10:34 AM

Winds of Nagual

2013-10-25, 10:38 AM

Wizard is a great first choice. I love my summoner but a LOT of paperwork and decisions to be made.

stack

2013-10-25, 11:15 AM

There aren't psychic classes in PF official lineup....yet.

Well, the DSP psionics are very well regarded and often allowed even when other 3rd party stuff is not, though as to how many tables allow it overall I couldn't say. Honestly I have more faith in the balance of DSP material than Paizo.

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 11:18 AM

All official material allowed
Other party members are a rogue, barbarian, and cleric, and I don't know much more beyond that.
Advanced players guide, ultimate combat/magic are allowed, including the class variant.

How powerful are Paladins in Pathfinder?
Magus, Summoner, and Inquisitor all look interesting as well.

Paladin's are notably better than their 3.5 version. This is mainly due to Smite Evil being a 'buff' and not a 'one shot' ability.

I'd be inclined to suggest an Arcane class, to help round out the party. So Magus/Summoner are the two best from what you listed.
A 3rd option for 'arcane beatdown' would be a Sorcerer into Dragon Disciple (with maybe 2 levels of Paladin).

Segev

2013-10-25, 11:26 AM

I don't know how well this would work in a "deadly campaign," so it may not be helpful...

However, one thing I would like to try eventually is an Infernal-bloodline Sorcerer who focuses on the social skills, and takes Charm Person and Hypnosis as first level spells known. The idea is to make friends, use Charm when simple skill isn't enough, and then use Hypnotism on the Charmed people to ratchet them up to the maximum tier of positive reaction. Lock in a suggested course of desired action you want them to remain helpful-to-fanatic over, and then use diplomacy and non-magical charm to be a friend they are glad they decided to like even when the magic wears off.

For tough burly types, that Hypnotism-inspired suggestion could be something along the lines of "come be my hired muscle; I'll pay you [reasonable price for a hireling]." It will keep him loyal and dedicated and you will pay a reasonable but not exorbitant price for muscle of your choosing at lowish level.

Karoht

2013-10-25, 12:31 PM

Short descriptions of character ideas you might enjoy.

Swiss Army Knife Sorcerer

Sage Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer with False Priest Archetype.
You're a Sorcerer who runs on intellect. Handy for skills and especially Knowledges. Also, if you collect Divine Scrolls you can effectively give yourself access to Divine spell casting, with no hit to your arcane spell casting.

At level 9, take the Pathfinder Savant or Cypher Mage prestige class. Savant if you just want a small dip, Cypher Mage if you want to go all the way with it. I personally prefer Pathfinder Savant over Cypher Mage as it is a bit more fluid, and you can drop the Sage archetype if you want. Cypher Mage you will need the Sage archetype for it to be most effective.

To be even more Swiss Army Knife, be a half elf (or a human with half elf racial heritage feat) and take the spell Paragon Surge. Use it to get access to any spell you want in a standard or swift action.

Teleporting Synthesist Summoner

Remember Nightcrawler from the Xmen? You're him. Except you are also a horrible demonic nightmare of claws and teeth.
At level 6 you get a feature which acts as Dimension Door, so long as you take the Synthesist archetype. This qualifies you for the Dimensional Agility/Assault/Dervish/Savant line of feats early. Teleport + Pounce = Get all your attacks on a teleport. Dervish and Savant improve on this, you can even flank with yourself. Just make sure you take the spell Dimension Door the moment it becomes available.
For evolutions, get lots of attacks, then focus on your defenses. Start as a Quadraped form to get pounce.
As for combat, you should open with a battlefield control spell, let the enemies sort themselves out, and then teleport pounce something you can identify as squishy. Teleport pounce the caster in the far back. Hang back to identify targets and process risk assessment, then alpha strike something to death.
I recommend choosing the Aasimar race, the free DR/Evil is quite handy, otherwise go Half Elf and get more evolution points to spend.

ArqArturo

2013-10-25, 12:36 PM

Paladin's are notably better than their 3.5 version. This is mainly due to Smite Evil being a 'buff' and not a 'one shot' ability

I'm actually having an argument with a friend that says exactly the opposite, that the paladin in 3.5 is stronger than the PF one :smalleek:.

Anyways, I'd suggest a Bladebound Magus, because the Magus is just awesome.

Nightgaun7

2013-10-25, 01:04 PM

OK, I've narrowed things down a bit

Synthesist Summoner
Magus
Paladin (or Pal/Sorc - does this work as well in PF as it did in 3.5?)
Inquisitor

It seems, in terms of power, that Synthesist is best, magus next, then Inquisitor and least powerful, the Paladin yes?

How well will each play with the party?

And, remember, this is starting at level 1.

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 01:28 PM

I'm actually having an argument with a friend that says exactly the opposite, that the paladin in 3.5 is stronger than the PF one :smalleek:.

If we're talking "out of the box" then the PF one wins, hands down.
If we're talking "crap tons of splat book support", then 3.5 wins, hands down.
If you take "small number of books" PF Paladin still most likely wins.

Out of the box, PF Paladin gets:
+2 Smites/day
Smite is a 'buff' not a 'one shot'. It bypasses DR, it does extra damage to certain types of evil creatures and it gives a bonus to AC vs. that creature.
Lay on Hands overall heals more (debatable depending on exact level and CHA mod, eventually PF wins).
Mercies enhance Lay on Hands.
Turn Undead vs. Channel Energy is a little harder to determine (different #/day uses, different power level, different ability).
PF uses CHA for spells, reducing MAD.
Optional Divine Bond with a Weapon instead of Mount.
4 additional Auras with various benefits.
An actual capstone that grants DR 10/Evil, option to Banish Outsiders with Smite, and Channeling/Lay on Hands heals maximum amount.

ArqArturo

2013-10-25, 01:30 PM

If we're talking "out of the box" then the PF one wins, hands down.
If we're talking "crap tons of splat book support", then 3.5 wins, hands down.

We're talking out of the box, he doesn't like or approve of splatbooks, says they're 'munchkin books'.

His argument revolves around the spell selection, and turn undead, which is just sad.

Spore

2013-10-25, 01:44 PM

It seems, in terms of power, that Synthesist is best, magus next, then Inquisitor and least powerful, the Paladin yes?

If built right synthesist are grossly overpowered and the DM can only rebalance the battle with banishing your eidolon (basically killing two turns and a spell slot of yours).

Is I would either build flavourful and flexible, or use another one of your second choices.

Paladin (or Pal/Sorc - does this work as well in PF as it did in 3.5?)

Yes, even better. Channeling, Smite Bonuses, Sorc Spells, even Paladin Spells are CH-dependant. This is your single most powerful stat. I'd go for dragon disciple to keep the gish character. You can cast quite many spells, you are still healing okay-ish, you can UMD like a pro, you have SLAs and SNAs like crazy.

Check Oterisk for guiding you through starting out: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nffu?Oterisks-Guide-to-the-Dragon-Disciple

My tip is to start as Paladin because you do not have to explain further why your Sorc is joining the ranks of paladin-hood.

DAMN, now I want to create a Pala/Sorc/DD. :D

Person_Man

2013-10-25, 01:53 PM

Of the 4 options you listed:

Synthesist Summoner: Tier 2. You're a tank with the ability to flood the zone with your Summons. Note that while being a Synthesist makes you ridiculously hard to kill and allows you to dump physical attributes, you give up a big action advantage of having your eidolon act separately.

Magus: Tier 3 slightly better version of the Duskblade. If you enjoy playing Gish, you'll enjoy the Magus. If you don't, you'll be frustrated by the kludge of limited spells and limited melee.

Paladin: Tier 4-ish melee and status effect removal. Paladin by itself is dramatically improved over the 3.5 Paladin, but most rounds of most combats you pretty much just move and make a melee attack. You get a lot more options at higher levels though, arguably enough to push it into Tier 3.

Pal/Sorc: No, this doesn't work well in Pathfinder. If you want a gish, play a Magus or Synthesist Summoner. First two levels you're basically just a Paladin. Then you pick up some low level spells. So now you're basically just a Magus with slightly better Saves but not Spellstrike, Magus Arcana, or Spell Recall. Then you stick with Sorcerer or move into a PrC and you're a functional Gish for 10 levels. Then at ECL 15-20 you miss out on all of the best high level class abilities and capstone that you would have gotten from just being a strait Anything 20.

Inquisitor: Tier 4 Bard-ish class. Teamwork Feats and Judgement bonuses scale very poorly and can sometimes be very fiddly, so this is probably one of my least favorite Pathfinder options.

Karoht

2013-10-25, 01:59 PM

Synthesist will very easily play well with the party.
You can stand back and summon if you want.
You're setting up the battlefield which helps everyone. If the enemy is a non-flying type, you can do things like create pit to keep things out of the fight. you help the party choose the terms of engagement.
You're Alpha-Striking the key threats while the others hold the line.

Synthesist + Paladin is actually kind of awesome. You're basically harnessing a demon to do good. Paladin for at least 2 levels, then Synthesist for about 8-10. From there you can go more Paladin or Synthesist. Holy Tactician Archetype for Paladin is an excellent pairing.

If you are going to make a Synthesist Summoner, I highly recommend reading the following thread.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184592

Nightgaun7

2013-10-25, 02:05 PM

Synthesist + Paladin is actually kind of awesome. You're basically harnessing a demon to do good. Paladin for at least 2 levels, then Synthesist for about 8-10. From there you can go more Paladin or Synthesist. Holy Tactician Archetype for Paladin is an excellent pairing.

If you are going to make a Synthesist Summoner, I highly recommend reading the following thread.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184592

I was thinking more along the lines of allowing an angel or saint to possess you for a while, but this is sort of in line with what I had in mind for the Summoner to begin with.

Of the 4 options you listed:
Note that while being a Synthesist makes you ridiculously hard to kill and allows you to dump physical attributes, you give up a big action advantage of having your eidolon act separately.

Which of the two would you recommend, normal or synthesist? Is there ny way to increase the casting ability of the Synthesist to give it more to do while the Eidolon whacks things?

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 02:07 PM

Synthesist Summoner: Tier 2.

Straight Summoner is perfectly viable as well.

Pal/Sorc: No, this doesn't work well in Pathfinder....Then at ECL 15-20 you miss out on all of the best high level class abilities and capstone that you would have gotten from just being a strait Anything 20.

It works well enough, and while it may fail at higher levels, not every game is going to reach those higher levels.

Inquisitor: Tier 4 Bard-ish class. Teamwork Feats and Judgement bonuses scale very poorly and can sometimes be very fiddly, so this is probably one of my least favorite Pathfinder options.

I think it's tier 3, as it still has 6th level Divine spells, and a load of skill points. It is a very solid "do anything" class, to the point where it can fairly easily switch roles on the fly. Teamwork feats can be "meh", but the Inquisitor gets an ability to (mostly) ignore the need for others to have them (and there are 2 decent archetypes that trade away the teamwork feats entirely). Most Judgements may scale a little slow, but at level 8 when you can throw on 2 at once it gets a good bit better. And don't discount the Bane ability to throw on some extra damage.

ArqArturo

2013-10-25, 02:14 PM

Honestly, the Spellbreaker Archetype (obviously paired with the Spellkiller Inquisition) is pretty much a mage-killer. Put him up with the dispelling barbarian and you're pretty much a show-stopper for the BBEG.

Zubrowka74

2013-10-25, 02:31 PM

Paladin (or Pal/Sorc - does this work as well in PF as it did in 3.5?)

Have you looked into the Oradin ? There's a guide somewhere around here. You might step on the cleric's toe though, depending on how he's built.

Person_Man

2013-10-25, 02:36 PM

Which of the two would you recommend, normal or synthesist?

Do you prefer to stand in back with a ranged weapon/spells/magic items while your Eilodon fights on the front line supported by other Summons as needed, or do you prefer to fight on the front line supported by Summons as needed?

The first option is usually safer and gives you an action advantage. The second option is better if you have low ability scores and/or your DM is going to be targeting you a lot regardless of where you stand in combat.

Is there any way to increase the casting ability of the Synthesist to give it more to do while the Eidolon whacks things?

Mine the splat books for additional Summon Monster options. There are a bunch of them, especially if you allow 3.5 material.

Karoht

2013-10-25, 02:48 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of allowing an angel or saint to possess you for a while, but this is sort of in line with what I had in mind for the Summoner to begin with.Sure, that works.

Which of the two would you recommend, normal or synthesist? Is there ny way to increase the casting ability of the Synthesist to give it more to do while the Eidolon whacks things?I know this was pointed at Person Man and not me, but I'll chime in.

Synthesist is useful because you basically get to be a tougher to kill caster, with all the melee capability. Sadly, you can't really do both at the same time. Hence why I suggested that you throw battlefield control spells (create pit, fog spells, etc), and wait for a suitable target. Then murder that target. Then find another one.
If you just go with normal Summoner, the Eidolon can be walking around murdering things while you do what you like. Shoot a crossbow or cast spells.

The other advantage of the Synthesist is, you only need one set of equipment really, and you aren't constrained with item slots the way one is with a regular summoner + eidolon.

Finally, as crazy as this sounds, the Synthesist is really flexible in a fight. Eidolon Surge gives you extra evolution points. For 2 points, you can be immune to fire for example. If you are a Synthesist, great, you're immune to fire. If you are a normal summoner, it means your Eidolon is immune to fire, and you are not. You will be forced to make a choice between protecting your Eidolon and protecting yourself, where the Synthesist doesn't have that problem.

As far as multiclassing with Paladin, it means that your features just go that much farther. That Charisma to saves now protects the both of you, not just you the summoner. Healing is easier because there is only one body, effectively one giant pool of hit points to worry about.

In my opinion, the Synthesist is easier to play than the regular Summoner, but you have more choices and better action economy as a regular Summoner.
Just my opinion mind you.

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 03:02 PM

stack

2013-10-25, 03:12 PM

I wouldn't call the maser summoner a poor choice overall. You just relegate the eidolon to utility aft level 1 and summon-spam in combat. Free augment summons is nice, toss in good summons (if good) or be a half-orc for ferocious summons. You are still squishy and need your stats reasonable, but its plenty viable.

Ninjaxenomorph

2013-10-25, 03:25 PM

Paladin-Sorceror can work if you are using it to go into Dragon Disciple. I would not recommend it, however.

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 04:53 PM

I wouldn't call the maser summoner a poor choice overall.

I didn't :smalltongue:
I said it was "generally a poor choice", mainly due to people wanting Eidolon face-smashing.

Spore

2013-10-25, 05:13 PM

I didn't :smalltongue:
I said it was "generally a poor choice", mainly due to people wanting Eidolon face-smashing.

Sadly they are weaker. While your Eidolon can be built to deal with both masses of enemies AND one single BAMF. They eidolon and summons of the master summoner will sometimes miss ALL attacks on the evil overlord.

Renegade Paladin

2013-10-25, 06:09 PM

I'm actually having an argument with a friend that says exactly the opposite, that the paladin in 3.5 is stronger than the PF one :smalleek:.

Anyways, I'd suggest a Bladebound Magus, because the Magus is just awesome.
Your friend is nuts.

And I've been looking at Bladebound Magus myself, just because the mysterious intelligent weapon is awesome-looking. :smallbiggrin:

Blyte

2013-10-25, 07:01 PM

I'd suggest witch.

you'd fill the arcane slot and be able to pitch in on the healing, as barbarians and rogues can be taxing on a healer.

samsaran with the alternate racial trait, if it's allowed.

Nightgaun7

2013-10-25, 07:05 PM

I'd suggest witch.

you'd fill the arcane slot and be able to pitch in on the healing, as barbarians and rogues can be taxing on a healer.

samsaran with the alternate racial trait, if it's allowed.

Sell me on the witch class. What makes it awesome?

grarrrg

2013-10-25, 09:29 PM

Sell me on the witch class. What makes it awesome?

Well, start with a Wizard, the casting, the saves, the familiar, etc...

Beat the ever loving snot out of people with your HairBeard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/white-haired-witch).

Use Hexes for a large variety of things without using spells slots (doesn't work with White-Bearded archetype though, as that trades away ALL Hexes).

Go Half-Orc and be the ONLY CON-based caster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc) in the game.

Step on the Cleric (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch)'s toes and go Hedge Witch for Spontaneous Cures (this one can be taken with Scarred Witch Doctor).

But seriously.
Beard Grappling or CON casting should be plenty incentive.

Craft (Cheese)

2013-10-26, 02:23 AM

A Witch makes a perfectly good Debuffer/Controller character (which your party lacks) with just her Hexes. That you get tier 1 spellcasting on top of that just makes things even better.

grarrrg

2013-10-26, 01:09 PM

A Witch makes a perfectly good Debuffer/Controller character (which your party lacks) with just her Hexes. That you get tier 1 spellcasting on top of that just makes things even better.Beard Grappler

Fixed that for you :smallwink:
Yeah, I'm kinda messing around at this point...

ArqArturo

2013-10-26, 01:49 PM

Fixed that for you :smallwink:
Yeah, I'm kinda messing around at this point...

It has to be a Dwarf, too.

grarrrg

2013-10-26, 02:02 PM

It has to be a Dwarf, too.

Well, duh, that goes without saying.

Andvare

2013-10-26, 03:48 PM

I know it hasn't been mentioned yet, so I'm not sure if people know this or not, but:
While a Summoner's Eidolon is 'out' he can NOT use his Summon Monster SLA.
So in order to have BOTH out, you would have to cast Summon Monster from one of your Spell Slots.
The only Archetype that gets around this is Master Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/master-summoner). Which is generally a poor choice, as you get a 1/2 progression Eidolon for the deal.

Actually, the First Worlder is supposed to be able to do that trick as well.
No it isn't called out specifically, and yes that means it is (yet another) piss poorly written rule, but it is stated by James Jacobs over at the Paizo board that that was the intention.

On the other hand, this means that the First Worlder is suddenly a strong archetype. Very strong. Silly strong, as the eidolon is still a fine skill monkey) and the archetype has no limits on how many summons it can have out at once. Stupidly strong. Paizo really needs to look up the word balance in the dictionary.

Edit: Also, while the First Worlder's eidolon will have the same BAB as the Master Summoner, it will have more of everything else, including HPs. And it will still be able to deal an insane amount of damage, even if it's BAB isn't that great.

Edit: The post in question. (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mmn3?Inner-Sea-Magic#29)

Blyte

2013-10-26, 04:26 PM

Go Half-Orc and be the ONLY CON-based caster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc) in the game.

Step on the Cleric (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch)'s toes and go Hedge Witch for Spontaneous Cures (this one can be taken with Scarred Witch Doctor).

definitely a strong option.. I really miss playing my old 3.0 con based psion.

but if you don't really want to be the "witch doctor" type, the non-archetype witch is pretty darn strong as well.

the witch has great reusable utility power in its' hexes.. and they scale up fantastically in the upper levels, especially with the twin hex + accursed hex feats.

they have a very strong spell list, and they advance at the same pace as a wizard.