To Build A Bridge (3.5)

[Amphetryon]

If you're in my game, this is not the thread you're looking for. Move along; there's nothing to see here.

All clear? Okay, then.

My group's party (2nd level: Telepath, Monk -with full BAB if it matters, Bard, Shugenja), has a diplomatic mission that's gotten them an audience with the burgomeister of a territory nominally under their Duke's control. One of the tasks that will be set before them to show that they come as allies and not as a military takeover is arranging for a bridge to be reconstructed over a deep chasm in the desert, across which is an important food source for the desert people. Short of specific Craft/Profession Skills, is such a task a reasonable one for a group at this level? If yes, how would you go about it? If no, how might you modify the challenge?

I'm hoping to use it as a change of pace from the "see monster, kill monster, take loot" approach they were forced to adopt in the last campaign.

[Brookshw]

Very reasonable. Objective break down: obtain materials, workers, security. You could do a lot with this. They have to talk people into supplying materials, possibly have to protect/escort from hostile tribes in the area, or negotiate with said tribes. Maybe someone's opposed to a peace treaty and is actively working to sabotage the effort (supplies go missing, progress gets damaged etc) so now there's an investigation/mystery. Plenty you can do here.

[Vaz]

Yeah, definately. Giving them concessions, such as letting Inns on the route let them stay for free; and; assuming provisions are part of your game, free food, or a source of income could be an introduction to the game.

Perhaps a "Grey man in a grey suit" approaches them shortly following, and offers them a chance to work in "uncovering corruption"; which could be a double bluff; either he's a "mysterious benefactor" looking to plant evidence or have the "heroes/enablers" who provided the lifeline to the country verify his "honesty"...

If you're looking for some examples of non-combat heavy games, the Rokugan campaign setting book from AEG has the courtier class and examples of such usages; the Secrets of the Crane, Scorpion and Lion also have examples of courtier heavy "clans".

There are courtier unique abilities as well; these could provide a unique "reward" to the characters; if you don't have access to such books, I can PM you with details.

[Trinoya]

Easily applicable to their party level and size. Make sure to provide lots of different options or quests to achieve their goal so they have some agency in their choice of how to go about it. A good thing might be retrieval of a powerful magic item to help in the construction (something like the Lyre of Building) or maybe capture of a nearby stone quarry, or rescuing an engineer from an enemy camp. All sorts of fun and nifty options and not something that should be too over the top either ^__^

[Diarmuid]

This type of scenario is something that could be tailored to almost any level of character who couldnt simply cast a spell and *poof* there's a bridger there.

The actual building of the bridge is almost inconsequential. It's all the peripherals that can easily be customized for your group. One part could offer options of sneaky or diplomatic (do we steal the resources or do we negotiate a good deal for them), both options with their own pros/cons.

The security piece is also something where you could involve some amount of choice. Do they guard the supplies, the worksite, or both? Investing too heavily at one leaves the other vulnerable, but spreading yourself too thin could mean you lose both.

I think the key is working out what the strategy for the bad guys ahead of time, or at least setting up a chart for rolling it randomly so you're not simply countering what the party decides to do. In the case of randomness, the other choices/options the PC's take could apply modifiers to the rolls on later obstacles.

[Amphetryon]

This type of scenario is something that could be tailored to almost any level of character who couldnt simply cast a spell and *poof* there's a bridger there.

The actual building of the bridge is almost inconsequential. It's all the peripherals that can easily be customized for your group. One part could offer options of sneaky or diplomatic (do we steal the resources or do we negotiate a good deal for them), both options with their own pros/cons.

The security piece is also something where you could involve some amount of choice. Do they guard the supplies, the worksite, or both? Investing too heavily at one leaves the other vulnerable, but spreading yourself too thin could mean you lose both.

I think the key is working out what the strategy for the bad guys ahead of time, or at least setting up a chart for rolling it randomly so you're not simply countering what the party decides to do. In the case of randomness, the other choices/options the PC's take could apply modifiers to the rolls on later obstacles.

Could you clarify why the actual accomplishment of the assigned task is "almost inconsequential"? I would think its success would have an impact on their diplomatic mission, due to how it would affect the burgomeister's people.

[Diarmuid]

I mean the mechanics of building the bridge dont need to be included.

The PC's arent going to be rolling Craft: Bridge or Profession: Bridgemaker checks, leave that up to the workers and let the PC's do things they're actually skilled at: fight monsters, figure out puzzles, negotiate prices/terms, etc.

What the PC's do in their little assignments/missions will have impacts on how the project is completed. If the PC's procure MW tools for all the workers, then maybe the project can happen faster. If they cheap out on materials (buy from the shady guy offering great prices to shave some cost), maybe that increases the time it takes somewhat. If the PC's hire a very skilled worked to oversee the project, maybe the workers all get a +1-2 to their checks.

The actual goal isnt important. It could be anything, from building a bridge to gathering a crop, to mining for ore. Unless you've started them out as "peasants" and encouraged them all to take craft/profession skills, then the part the PC's play in this should be something actually tailored to their skillsets.

[Amphetryon]

I mean the mechanics of building the bridge dont need to be included.

The PC's arent going to be rolling Craft: Bridge or Profession: Bridgemaker checks, leave that up to the workers and let the PC's do things they're actually skilled at: fight monsters, figure out puzzles, negotiate prices/terms, etc.

What the PC's do in their little assignments/missions will have impacts on how the project is completed. If the PC's procure MW tools for all the workers, then maybe the project can happen faster. If they cheap out on materials (buy from the shady guy offering great prices to shave some cost), maybe that increases the time it takes somewhat. If the PC's hire a very skilled worked to oversee the project, maybe the workers all get a +1-2 to their checks.

The actual goal isnt important. It could be anything, from building a bridge to gathering a crop, to mining for ore. Unless you've started them out as "peasants" and encouraged them all to take craft/profession skills, then the part the PC's play in this should be something actually tailored to their skillsets.
No offense intended, but that just tells me tha it's a really bad goal/encounter design, regardless of other feedback. If the PCs' ability to achieve the primary goal established isn't important, I cannot fathom how that can justifiably be a good encounter design.

[Coidzor]

If you're in my game, this is not the thread you're looking for. Move along; there's nothing to see here.

All clear? Okay, then.

My group's party (2nd level: Telepath, Monk -with full BAB if it matters, Bard, Shugenja), has a diplomatic mission that's gotten them an audience with the burgomeister of a territory nominally under their Duke's control. One of the tasks that will be set before them to show that they come as allies and not as a military takeover is arranging for a bridge to be reconstructed over a deep chasm in the desert, across which is an important food source for the desert people. Short of specific Craft/Profession Skills, is such a task a reasonable one for a group at this level? If yes, how would you go about it? If no, how might you modify the challenge?

If they're just going out and building a bridge with only four people? No. They don't have the manpower to accomplish any kind of major architecture. A rope bridge they can do, sure, I don't believe you really need anything other than two people for that, or one if you know it won't be disturbed and you can climb up and down/have enough rope. If they're doing mundane skill checks, there's two few of them at this low of a level, if they're doing magic they're not high enough level for the relevant spells, but once they get those spells it's essentially trivial.

If they're going to oversee/arrange for workers or they have workers sent with them, then it's trivial aside from concerns like exploration/surveying the area, securing the work areas, making sure the materials get there, and making sure that building doesn't get interrupted or if it does get interrupted they can clear up the interruption.

Otherwise I'm not really sure what you're asking. :smallconfused:

[avr]

The ability of the PCs to build a permanent bridge is not the encounter. The obstacles in the way of building the bridge are the encounters.

At 2nd level they don't have the manpower or the magic to build the bridge themselves. Diplomacy, corruption, local monsters or sabotage are encounters that they may be able to do something about.

[Averis Vol]

Well, If they're building a bridge, theres a few things that could play into it.

Lets assume theres two general paths*:

Building a bridge of wood
Building a bridge of stone


If you're making one out of wood, you of course have to find a source. In the nearby forest they inevitably meet the woods defenders who, instead of murdering the party for attacking their forest, offer a deal. They have a problem within their sacred ruins. If the PC's deal with it, then they will gather the strongest fallen trees they have and bring them to the work site. There will be marginally too little, so near the end of the process, they will have to go back and negotiate. This will be hard to do, as all the fallen trees have been given already, so it is only a given that bargaining will have to go down. This can be anything from services rendered in the future, with a blood bond to seal it, or a promise of trade and pay from the burgomeister in return for their aid.

If they must find stone, then it is only certain that they will have to find a good source, and in the desert, that may be hard. Have a fissure in the ground somewhere that leads down into the earth whereupon the party finds a tribe of svirfneblin that run a rock quarry.

Again let negotiations begin.

If they work through it successfully then the gnome leader will lend them X miners and give the party his blessing to find a place and start mining. This leads to multiple potential problems.
for example: they must find a good place to mine from. the workers can help to a degree, but maybe getting the the place requires traversing dangerous ground, and the gnomes won't follow until a safe route is established. They lend the party a pick just in case and send them off. you could have the area littered with ancient subterranean traps, a few bits of combat, before they find a small corridor that with successful checks, they can hear the gnomes through. Once the route is established they leave the gnomes to their work and return to the leader and give directions for where to have the stone delivered. If you need more crunch in this, have a problem arise in the mineshaft and let the PC's figure out how to fix it.

hope this helps. the amount of different things that could happen is staggering, so anything is within the realm of possibility, and these are jsut sort of push off ideas.

[relytdan]

Averis Vol - had a similar idea
other than the various potential encounter issues holding up bridge construction would be in fact getting the related materials - potential encounters at those sites and in route with materials -
Encounters being set aside for this,

the OP is this reasonable for the PC's; build a bridge across a Desert Chasm (across which is an important food source for the desert people)


(environmentally its dry with occasional rain, size of chasm would make construction methods vary)
then my answer is yes its possible for just the PC's to do so and would probably happen faster with workers ect in the materials department.

wood while a choice may no last long enough, depending how permanent / long this bridge is to last. wood does dry rot especially so with potential rain and eventually it would need to be replaced.

Iron/Steel as D&D uses it in weapon and armor construction is available, it could last as long as a stone bridge, but it has potential for rust / decay where we are presuming at least some rain.

Stone a better choice, may not be easy to get to the build site but once set properly should last, depending on the chasm size, it more than likely would need a center to ground style support. and unless the chasm gets flash floods that could knock it out, would last practically forever.

[ArqArturo]

You get witches. But you have to make sure that they are witches.

[Diarmuid]

The ability of the PCs to build a permanent bridge is not the encounter. The obstacles in the way of building the bridge are the encounters.

At 2nd level they don't have the manpower or the magic to build the bridge themselves. Diplomacy, corruption, local monsters or sabotage are encounters that they may be able to do something about.

This is my thought also. Pcs rolling a bunch of skill checks to see if they can successfully build a bridge doesn't sound like a very interesting goal/encounter in my opinion. If that's what you want to do, and that's what your players would enjoy, that's perfectly fine.

I just prefer more heroic, "shaping" encounters/goals is all.

[ArqArturo]

Reminds me, somehow, to a lot of stories built around very famous monasteries and houses in Europe during the Goth and Renaissance periods.

Perhaps the party could work, in a way, as patrons of the stonemasons, architects, and stonecutters working on the bridge, maybe even getting a few workers from different areas, to insure that this is not just the work of a single region, but something that all will benefit.

There could be sabotage as well, and that's where the encounters start.


Stone a better choice, may not be easy to get to the build site but once set properly should last, depending on the chasm size, it more than likely would need a center to ground style support. and unless the chasm gets flash floods that could knock it out, would last practically forever.

The Ancient Romans actually were pretty good at building in general, and they actually built bridges in deep chasms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alc%C3%A1ntara_Bridge), so it's plausible; and, to boot, you could maybe use a mix to help with the stone (rough work in the bottom, as well as a wider base, for stability during dry times, and a more refined body, especially in the arch, to help distribute weight).

I'm an architect, btw :smallbiggrin:.

[Amphetryon]

This is my thought also. Pcs rolling a bunch of skill checks to see if they can successfully build a bridge doesn't sound like a very interesting goal/encounter in my opinion. If that's what you want to do, and that's what your players would enjoy, that's perfectly fine.

I just prefer more heroic, "shaping" encounters/goals is all.

Could you provide examples of 'more heroic, "shaping" encounter/goals' that are not combat centered or based on rolling a bunch of skill checks but still make the Characters' abilities matter, rather than the Players' abilities or the abilities of a bunch of semi-random NPCs?

[Diarmuid]

I'm confused. You want encounters that aren't combat oriented or that use skil checks?

Some of the examples I mentioned could be done completely role-play.

[Legendxp]

Originally posted by Diarmuid
I mean the mechanics of building the bridge dont need to be included.

The PC's arent going to be rolling Craft: Bridge or Profession: Bridgemaker checks, leave that up to the workers and let the PC's do things they're actually skilled at: fight monsters, figure out puzzles, negotiate prices/terms, etc.

What the PC's do in their little assignments/missions will have impacts on how the project is completed. If the PC's procure MW tools for all the workers, then maybe the project can happen faster. If they cheap out on materials (buy from the shady guy offering great prices to shave some cost), maybe that increases the time it takes somewhat. If the PC's hire a very skilled worked to oversee the project, maybe the workers all get a +1-2 to their checks.

The actual goal isn't important. It could be anything, from building a bridge to gathering a crop, to mining for ore. Unless you've started them out as "peasants" and encouraged them all to take craft/profession skills, then the part the PC's play in this should be something actually tailored to their skillsets.

This, listen to this. This guy knows what he's talking about. From the looks of it you're disagreeing with him, but I believe listening to what he says will be extremely beneficial. Just flat out BUILDING a bridge isn't fun at all. Hiring/protecting the workers and helping out around the construction site will prove way more entertaining.

Also, is this across a rocky canyon or something? (Because its nearly impossible to build anything in sand, though not as difficult in rock)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, let's break this challenge down for the players, shall we?

First off, there is clearly a demand for the bridge to be built, therefore there must be a problem with implementation. Does the area not have any competent architects or engineers? Is there a lack of building supplies? Is some hostile force destroying bridges or otherwise not wanting this bridge to be built?

A group of adventurers makes for a poor engineering corps, but a nation or at least a tribe should have access to such skills. Therefore, their best use of adventurers is to remove any obstacles which are keeping them from constructing the bridge in question.

Now then, local materials and manpower could be a diplomatic quest. Finding the locals, and convincing them to help. They may need to offer deals, might need to deal with local problems (hey, more plot hooks!), or somehow convince them that this is in their best interests. I'd figure a Bard is more than capable of the 'party face' task convincing them, particularly with a Telepath backing him up.

Finding someone with the knowledge of building the bridge might be an interesting side-quest to this. Convincing him to do so is likely also a plot-point, with either payment, concessions, solving problems for him, or otherwise managing to get him on board. Assuming no one in the group has the right skills.

Getting all the supplies together can be a logistical nightmare. We're looking at how many workers? All of whom need to eat and, more importantly, drink. You did mention this is in a desert, right? Fortunately, the Shugenga should probably have Summon Food and Drink on his list, which will mitigate that problem. Setting up convoys would be a matter of going back to the original quest giver and going "Okay, we've got the guy to build it, we've got the work crew, we need some supplies heading along these routes. We can't be everywhere at once, could you see fit to send an armed caravan with the supplies needed to build your bridge?".

Then there's the actual construction itself, which can take a while. And if there's anyone wanting to be a saboteur... it is up to the party to find and stop him.

The Monk should make a pretty darn good sentry, actually, if he's got spot/listen, and with Evasion and a high touch-AC and retaining his Dex bonus to AC even when flat-footed, it's going to be tough for a saboteur to get the jump on him at this level. Even if it's a Rogue, he still won't be able to get off a sneak attack without a flank, and area-effect stuff for reflex/half (acid flasks and such) are not likely to work on him either. And since he does have a full BAB, he can probably get away with closing and Flurrying. Between the Telepath and the Shugenga, you should be able to lock down any attempts.

So instead of just one quest of 'build a bridge', you now have a whole chain of quests to get this done. Which gives the players a variety of challenges, not all of them necessarily challenges one can apply a boot to head to solve.

[Averis Vol]

This is my thought also. Pcs rolling a bunch of skill checks to see if they can successfully build a bridge doesn't sound like a very interesting goal/encounter in my opinion. If that's what you want to do, and that's what your players would enjoy, that's perfectly fine.

I just prefer more heroic, "shaping" encounters/goals is all.

They're level two, they don't get to be heroic. They're lucky they even get to exist; for right now, they should be comfortable in going around doing the small things they can.

[Amphetryon]

I'm confused. You want encounters that aren't combat oriented or that use skil checks?

Some of the examples I mentioned could be done completely role-play.

I said I wanted encounters that weren't combat oriented, since they'd had an overabundance of those in the previous campaign, which was a straight dungeon-crawl, and I am always leery of encounters that rely on Player skill, rather than Character skill, as that sounds extremely metagame-y to me (leading to situations where the Player with the quickest mind, or most outgoing personality, solves things, rather than the Character with those traits). You said that "Pcs rolling a bunch of skill checks to see if they can successfully build a bridge doesn't sound like a very interesting goal/encounter".

I am asking how you would create encounters within these parameters, which became established via the process of elimination within this thread.

[Darrin]

My first idea was to use Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments, but even that can't make a very big bridge... maybe a 20' foot span, if only 5' thick.

One of the tribes has an old shaman who can mix up a fresh batch of pigments, but he's all out of ingredients. He hires the PCs to fetch them. He needs five colors: red, yellow, white, blue, and black.

Red Ochre: The PCs are directed to collect this red powder from the Auspicious Termite Mounds. The mounds are black, but if you dig inside you can find a blood-red powder. However, this understandably tends to upset the termites, which attack in swarms. The swarms are slow enough for the PCs to withdraw, but there are too many swarms appearing for them to safely dig into the mounds and get at the red ochre. To complicate things, a local tribe of Bhukas consider the termite mounds to be sacred, and also get upset about any damage to the mounds. The Bhukas demand reparations from the PCs for trespassing on sacred grounds and whatnot, but can be mollified and talked down to a more reasonable payment. But what's really bothering the Bhuka is a harpy that has been preying on their scouts. If the PCs track down and dispose of the harpy, the Bhuka will be extremely pleased, and will show the PCs how to safely harvest the red ochre: do it at night, when the termites are less active, and coat your body with a camphor-based oil, which prevents the swarms from entering your space.

Yellow Ochre: This is obtained at hot springs inhabited by a group of sulphur mephits. They're actually friendly if approached in a non-threatening manner, and will even help the PCs collect the yellow ochre. However, they are incorrigible pranksters, and keep giving the PCs the "wrong" shade of yellow. When the PCs are sent back to get the right shade, the mephits keep breaking out into fits of uncontrollable laughter. If attacked, the mephits use their knockout breath, haboob, and stinking cloud to escape. To get the mephits to show the PCs where the "right" shade can be collected, the PCs have to play a harmless prank either on themselves or the sulphur mephits (something like "pie in the face/can full of snakes" or from the "Three Stooges" repertoire should work). If the PCs talk to the locals about the mephits, the locals can give them hints or advice on what the mephits find particularly entertaining.

White Chalk: This can be easily obtained from a nearby community of kobolds who can mine it out of the cliff-face where they live. However, all mining has stopped because the king of the kobolds has tragically died, and no mining can take place until a successor is chosen. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a succession crisis... the king's brother has made an offer of marriage to the bereaved queen, it was accepted, and preparations for the marriage/coronation are underway, except there are some allegations of impropriety. Even worse, the king's son, who normally would be in line for the throne, is now moping around and acting crazy. The arrival of the PCs throws the balance of power between the two factions out of whack, as one side demands the PCs swear fealty to the king's brother as a show of political support, while the king's vizier implores the PCs to please quietly investigate the king's son and see why he's so depressed all of a sudden.

Blue Foxglove: Dryad in a nearby oasis can show the PCs where to harvest this rare plant, but the very distraught and teary-eyed dryad begs a huge favor first: she absolutely has to have this acorn planted next to a natural spring at the bottom of a nearby canyon, but there's a strict time limit... it has to happen before the full moon rises in three days. The PCs have to make some decisions on which routes are quickest as opposed to safest, and avoid unnecessary delays. Throw in some encounters designed to slow down the PCs (disease, weather, mirage mullah, necrotic flaywind, gotta throw a sandworm in there somewhere too). Make it close but make sure if the PCs sacrifice a bit they can make it just in time. As the moon rises over the canyon, the acorn sprouts a new sapling, and a young girl emerges. With a lot of giggling, she points out the blue foxglove they need is right there next to the spring. (If the PCs don't make it, the acorn splits, the girl emerges and then immediately dies, and the PCs have earned the lifelong enmity of an extremely pissed dryad.)

Black Sap: This has to be harvested from an ironthorn tree. However, this particular ironthorn tree is a really bad seed, and much craftier than a typical ironthorn. It's hidden itself among several other dessicated trees along a dried-out riverbed, and has set up some deadfall/pit traps. I'm not quite sure if a 2nd-level party could take this on, but there's a crusty old hermit the PCs could get some help from who can recognize the tree and give them some tips on how to take it down. Just as the PCs get close, they fall into some devious trap, and the hermit heroically sacrifices himself to rescue them, dramatically dying with some parting words of wisdom.

My second idea was two tribes living on opposite sides of the crevasse. Both tribes, working together (I was thinking wand of wall of sand + scroll of transmute sand to stone), could build a bridge, but there's a blood feud and the PCs stumble into a Romeo/Juliet sort of thing, as the chieftan's son and the rival chieftan's daughter are interrupted in a clandestine meeting in a secret grotto. The pair swear the PCs to secrecy, but the young prince gets captured trying to return to his tribe, and the princess sneaks out to beg the PCs to rescue him before he gets executed. Throw in a hothead thug suitor to the princess to heat things up or maybe a mischevious fey (local dryad/nymph) to charm the newly-freed prince and complicate the love triangle.

[Amphetryon]

My first idea was to use Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments, but even that can't make a very big bridge... maybe a 20' foot span, if only 5' thick.

One of the tribes has an old shaman who can mix up a fresh batch of pigments, but he's all out of ingredients. He hires the PCs to fetch them. He needs five colors: red, yellow, white, blue, and black.

Red Ochre: The PCs are directed to collect this red powder from the Auspicious Termite Mounds. The mounds are black, but if you dig inside you can find a blood-red powder. However, this understandably tends to upset the termites, which attack in swarms. The swarms are slow enough for the PCs to withdraw, but there are too many swarms appearing for them to safely dig into the mounds and get at the red ochre. To complicate things, a local tribe of Bhukas consider the termite mounds to be sacred, and also get upset about any damage to the mounds. The Bhukas demand reparations from the PCs for trespassing on sacred grounds and whatnot, but can be mollified and talked down to a more reasonable payment. But what's really bothering the Bhuka is a harpy that has been preying on their scouts. If the PCs track down and dispose of the harpy, the Bhuka will be extremely pleased, and will show the PCs how to safely harvest the red ochre: do it at night, when the termites are less active, and coat your body with a camphor-based oil, which prevents the swarms from entering your space.

Yellow Ochre: This is obtained at hot springs inhabited by a group of sulphur mephits. They're actually friendly if approached in a non-threatening manner, and will even help the PCs collect the yellow ochre. However, they are incorrigible pranksters, and keep giving the PCs the "wrong" shade of yellow. When the PCs are sent back to get the right shade, the mephits keep breaking out into fits of uncontrollable laughter. If attacked, the mephits use their knockout breath, haboob, and stinking cloud to escape. To get the mephits to show the PCs where the "right" shade can be collected, the PCs have to play a harmless prank either on themselves or the sulphur mephits (something like "pie in the face/can full of snakes" or from the "Three Stooges" repertoire should work). If the PCs talk to the locals about the mephits, the locals can give them hints or advice on what the mephits find particularly entertaining.

White Chalk: This can be easily obtained from a nearby community of kobolds who can mine it out of the cliff-face where they live. However, all mining has stopped because the king of the kobolds has tragically died, and no mining can take place until a successor is chosen. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a succession crisis... the king's brother has made an offer of marriage to the bereaved queen, it was accepted, and preparations for the marriage/coronation are underway, except there are some allegations of impropriety. Even worse, the king's son, who normally would be in line for the throne, is now moping around and acting crazy. The arrival of the PCs throws the balance of power between the two factions out of whack, as one side demands the PCs swear fealty to the king's brother as a show of political support, while the king's vizier implores the PCs to please quietly investigate the king's son and see why he's so depressed all of a sudden.

Blue Foxglove: Dryad in a nearby oasis can show the PCs where to harvest this rare plant, but the very distraught and teary-eyed dryad begs a huge favor first: she absolutely has to have this acorn planted next to a natural spring at the bottom of a nearby canyon, but there's a strict time limit... it has to happen before the full moon rises in three days. The PCs have to make some decisions on which routes are quickest as opposed to safest, and avoid unnecessary delays. Throw in some encounters designed to slow down the PCs (disease, weather, mirage mullah, necrotic flaywind, gotta throw a sandworm in there somewhere too). Make it close but make sure if the PCs sacrifice a bit they can make it just in time. As the moon rises over the canyon, the acorn sprouts a new sapling, and a young girl emerges. With a lot of giggling, she points out the blue foxglove they need is right there next to the spring. (If the PCs don't make it, the acorn splits, the girl emerges and then immediately dies, and the PCs have earned the lifelong enmity of an extremely pissed dryad.)

Black Sap: This has to be harvested from an ironthorn tree. However, this particular ironthorn tree is a really bad seed, and much craftier than a typical ironthorn. It's hidden itself among several other dessicated trees along a dried-out riverbed, and has set up some deadfall/pit traps. I'm not quite sure if a 2nd-level party could take this on, but there's a crusty old hermit the PCs could get some help from who can recognize the tree and give them some tips on how to take it down. Just as the PCs get close, they fall into some devious trap, and the hermit heroically sacrifices himself to rescue them, dramatically dying with some parting words of wisdom.

My second idea was two tribes living on opposite sides of the crevasse. Both tribes, working together (I was thinking wand of wall of sand + scroll of transmute sand to stone), could build a bridge, but there's a blood feud and the PCs stumble into a Romeo/Juliet sort of thing, as the chieftan's son and the rival chieftan's daughter are interrupted in a clandestine meeting in a secret grotto. The pair swear the PCs to secrecy, but the young prince gets captured trying to return to his tribe, and the princess sneaks out to beg the PCs to rescue him before he gets executed. Throw in a hothead thug suitor to the princess to heat things up or maybe a mischevious fey (local dryad/nymph) to charm the newly-freed prince and complicate the love triangle.

I'm not sure how this is intended as a response to my original queries, unless it's intended to imply the original encounter design is inappropriate or lacking. Could you clarify how this pertains to the questions at hand?

[Darrin]

I'm not sure how this is intended as a response to my original queries, unless it's intended to imply the original encounter design is inappropriate or lacking. Could you clarify how this pertains to the questions at hand?

I'm not sure what you mean by "questions at hand"? I thought you were looking for "encounters that weren't combat oriented" that involved building a bridge.

If I didn't provide what you were looking for (or at least get somewhere near the neighborhood of it), then I'm completely befuddled about what exactly you're looking for.

[Amphetryon]

I'm not sure what you mean by "questions at hand"? I thought you were looking for "encounters that weren't combat oriented" that involved building a bridge.

If I didn't provide what you were looking for (or at least get somewhere near the neighborhood of it), then I'm completely befuddled about what exactly you're looking for.

I'm sorry that my verbiage in the opening post leads to the conclusion that I'm asking for encounters other than the one I posited; I'll endeavor to be clearer in future.

The post directly preceding your initial one in this thread was asking a direct question of a specific individual; again, if that was unclear, I can only promise to try to be clearer in future.

[Darrin]

I'm sorry that my verbiage in the opening post leads to the conclusion that I'm asking for encounters other than the one I posited; I'll endeavor to be clearer in future.


Ok, I read back through all the posts, and I agree with Diarmuid: If the encounter is "go build a bridge" and they have to use Craft: Stonemason or Knowledge: Engineering rolls to build it themselves, then this is an inappropriate encounter for their current level. It's also not particularly interesting or heroic. As a player, my first impulse would be to say "**** the bridge, let's go kill something. Kill things = gold = buy bridge."

So I tried to reframe the problem into something that might work better for a 2nd level party:

1) Higher-level shaman can build a bridge with a magic item. But he needs ingredients to make that happen. Shaman gives PCs shopping list, PCs go collect plot coupons.

2) Two local tribes collectively have the resources to build the bridge (via higher-level casters or just a bunch of unemployed stonemasons), but are currently feuding. PCs are thrown into the middle of the feud. If they fix the feud, bridge gets built.

In both cases, the resources to build the bridge are beyond the current capabilities of the party. I'd rather see the party tackle a smaller project: convince stakeholder X to help build the bridge, stop the Whatchamacallits from attacking the stonemasons, go get the MacGuffin that's holding up construction, etc.

To go back to your original questions:



Short of specific Craft/Profession Skills, is such a task a reasonable one for a group at this level?


No. Unless one or more of the PCs specifically made an Expert Stonemason or has a "Royal Architect Who Moonlights as a Freelance Adventurer" concept, I don't see why 2nd level characters would have any capability or interest in the construction business. The players don't take Power Attack and magic missile to build bridges, unless the players came to you beforehand and begged, "OMG we are so sick of combat, can we please do a campaign with more civil engineering and political intrigue?"



If yes, how would you go about it?


A group of low level adventurers might be able to get their hands on a magic item, such as Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments, or some scrolls with multiple wall of sand + transmute sand to stone spells. If used for the stated purpose and not immediately swapped into GP to buy "Kill Things Harder" equipment, those items are disposable and shouldn't create any long-term power imbalances for a low-level party.



If no, how might you modify the challenge?


Reframe the challenge into a "find A, B, and C" problem (collecting pigments) or "convince stakeholder X to do Y" problem (feuding tribes).