Weapons for Wizards

[KevlarTheD]

Hello Giants,

I'm making a wizard build who I'm hoping to stick into Abjurant Champion at level 11 (once his BAB is high enough). The only other prerequisite is proficiency with at least one martial weapon.

my character's race is Loresong Faen, so unfortunately they don't qualify for Ruathar. I'm gonna have to spend a feat on this. Whatever, I'll just take a Flaw. Noncombatant is also a hilarious Flaw to take in order to gain a weapon proficiency feat.

Now, I know I could just pick "longsword" and just never actually use one, but I'm wondering if there's a martial weapon worth taking that may be of some actual use, at some point, to a small-sized wizard.

Spiked Gauntlets don't count as Martial, unfortunately.

A polearm weapon such as a guisarme or ranseur to use as a 5-foot pole sounds good. It also provides reach, and the two examples I just gave allow the use of untrained trip or disarm attempts (again, with reach).

Armor Spikes are what have my attention currently. My mage wears thistledown armor (light, +1, no ACF) on which I could mount some spikes. I would never actually grapple anyone, but spiky armor is always cool AND it's a bit more characterful than "I'm proficient with something I never carry with me".

Is there a list of all martial weapons besides the commonly-googled SRD? Am I missing a very good option? Should I not worry and just take "longsword" or "dagger" and have done with it?

[HalfQuart]

Is there a list of all martial weapons besides the commonly-googled SRD?
I can answer this part quickly.... take a look at this Ginormous list of weapons for D&D 3.5 (http://rodriguezvaughn.com/geekspeak/index.php?topic=133.0).

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, the go to is a greatsword. You don't want to sword and board becuase you need a hand free. A THW allows you to take a hand off of it to cast and then wield it two handed to attack.

A lance is also a nice weapon due to the ability for a wizard to summon a cool mount + reach is always nice. Spiked armor is also a consideration. You can spike an armor with 0%ASF and have both hands free.

[Captnq]

How about The Complete Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871)?

[HalfQuart]

my character's race is Loresong Faen, so unfortunately they don't qualify for Ruathar.
Why is that? I'm not familiar with Loresong Faen, but there isn't a racial requirement for Ruathar.

[Captnq]

Personally, I'd go with the ol' spellcaster favorate.

+1 (Sorcerer's Hand, Splitting, Deathwand) Heavy Crossbow with a wand chamber and a Sword crossbow bayonet.

That will give you three wands at the ready, and every ray spell you cast is +1 to hit, +1 damage, and splits into two different rays that each do full damage.

The Great thing is, simple weapon profs for the Crossbow and the bayonet.

Or you can make a light crossbow version with a knife crossbow bayonet if you want to keep the whole thing one handed. It's the three wands you can load up with ray spells that make it work. Oh, and you can add quickloading so you can have an extradimensional space for 100 bolts, just in case you run out of charges (unlikely, but it might happen.)

[herrhauptmann]

Executioners Mace from Dungeon Magazine 135.

It's BP or BS damage. 2 handed. 2d6x3.
You can make it keen, you can use greater mighty wallop. It does all forms of damage. Now you just need to figure out alignment/material based DR. Metalline fixes that.
And there's another enchantment (Shadowstriking from ToM) which alters your weapon after hitting someone, so that you beat their DR on every shot after the second. Resets if you hit someone with different/no DR.

edited. Thanks to Big Fau for enchantment name.

[Big Fau]

And there's another enchantment which alters your weapon after hitting someone, so that you beat their DR on every shot after the second. Resets if you hit someone with different/no DR.

Shadowstriking, from ToM, not to be confused with the Shadow Striking property in the MiC (which does something different).

[Joe the Rat]

Go for a Halberd. Doubles as a walking staff. See if you can get the spear tip and axe head made with different metals.

I was going to suggest Dire Flail, because everyone would be happy that you aren't using such a ridiculous thing... but it does say martial, not exotic.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, the go to is a greatsword. You don't want to sword and board becuase you need a hand free. A THW allows you to take a hand off of it to cast and then wield it two handed to attack.

You can do that just as well with a longsword or other 1-handed weapon, and still have the option of using only one hand (so your other hand is free for a wand, for example).


Should I not worry and just take "longsword" or "dagger" and have done with it?

Well, a dagger isn't a martial weapon, so......



Also,

Hello Giants,

There is only one Giant here.

[herrhauptmann]

You can do that just as well with a longsword or other 1-handed weapon, and still have the option of using only one hand (so your other hand is free for a wand, for example).

That's actually a really good point. Especially at low levels where you may find yourself fighting while clinging to a cliff or rope.

[KillianHawkeye]

That's actually a really good point. Especially at low levels where you may find yourself fighting while clinging to a cliff or rope.

Man, if you're a wizard hanging from a rope or the side of a cliff and all you have to defend yourself with is a sword, then your day has gone seriously wrong at some point! :smallamused:

I would definitely advocate climbing away from the danger (if possible) rather than staying to fight in such a disadvantageous position. A low level wizard must sometimes know the better part of valor. Or learn to engage in a fight on your own terms rather than letting the enemy dictate the conditions of the battle.

[herrhauptmann]

Man, if you're a wizard hanging from a rope or the side of a cliff and all you have to defend yourself with is a sword, then your day has gone seriously wrong at some point! :smallamused:

You have NO idea.


I would definitely advocate climbing away from the danger (if possible) rather than staying to fight in such a disadvantageous position. A low level wizard must sometimes know the better part of valor. Or learn to engage in a fight on your own terms rather than letting the enemy dictate the conditions of the battle.
Yeah, but sometimes, the DM just wants to force the fight on you. (Mooncalf in heart of nightfang spire)
On those days, it's best to be prepared.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, yeah, sometimes you have no choice. Still, in those situations, I hope the wizard has something better to do than swinging a sword.

[Captnq]

Sigh.

Recommended Weapons:
Martial Light:
HELMET, HORNED
KNEE BLADE
RAZORED ARMOR
SPIKED ARMOR

Martial 1 handed:
CLOAK, WEIGHTED
FLAIL
RAPIER
SABER
SWORDCANE

Martial 2 handed
CLUB, HURL
ETHERBLADE
FALCHION
FLAIL, HEAVY
GREATAXE
GREATSWORD
HALBERD
LANCE
LANCE, FLIGHT
RANSEUR
RIPPER

Martial Ranged:
DART THRUSTER
SPIKE SHOOTER


Simple Weapons Ranged:
CROSSBOW, HEAVY
MISTER
SLING
SPRAYER

Simple Weapons 2handed:
CROSSBOW BAYONET, SWORD
LONGBOW, ELVENCRAFT

Simple Weapons 1 handed:
ASPERGILLUM, HEAVY
GAUNTLET, BATTLE

Simple Weapons light:
BLADE, CLOSE FIGHTING
BOOT BLADE
BOW BLADE
ELBOW BLADE

I suggest you review them all for your individual needs.

[herrhauptmann]

I suggest you review them all for your individual needs.
Isn't that copy-pasted out of the handbook/list you linked?

In that case, it really needs sources listed for the non-phb weapons.

[KevlarTheD]

Why is that? I'm not familiar with Loresong Faen, but there isn't a racial requirement for Ruathar.

I was under the impression it was human or half-elf only for some reason. That seems my best bet if I want to keep all my feats open, but it'd set my BAB back by 1, delaying abjurant champion by another level.

Horned helmet sounds fun, but I didn't see it on the list. Same as armor spikes, in any case.

Apologies to the Giant. He is the only Giant.

Thanks for all the help! I think I'll go with a greatsword. Two of my party members will already be using them for character reasons, so on the narrow chance I need to wield one of their weapons, I will be slightly less terrible with it.

[Captnq]

Isn't that copy-pasted out of the handbook/list you linked?

In that case, it really needs sources listed for the non-phb weapons.

Uhhhh... yes.

They are all in the handbook. Since the discussion was continuing on, I figured a list of everything that got 3 out of 4 stars or better that qualified needed to be put up because the suggestions were getting awfully predictable. The handbook has editorials, reviews, sources, suggestions, bookmarks, and spreadsheets. If you can't find what you are looking for, well... I don't know how to help you, then.

[HalfQuart]

I was under the impression it was human or half-elf only for some reason. That seems my best bet if I want to keep all my feats open, but it'd set my BAB back by 1, delaying abjurant champion by another level.
Ruathar is 2/3 BAB, so you could do Wizard 6/Ruathar 3 and then start Abjurant Champion at 10. That's a level earlier, not later than straight Wizard 10.

[HalfQuart]

Spellsword 1 is another good dip for +1 BAB and spellcasting.

Edit: Oh, right, but you need proficiency with ALL martial weapons and with armor.

[Lyndworm]

You might want to check out Complete Champion. There's a Wizard ACF in there that trades any of your bonus feats (at 5th, 10th, 15th, or 20th level) for the granted power of a domain. The War domain (Player's Handbook) will get you martial weapon proficiency and Weapon Focus with any martial weapon of your choice (if you don't worship a specific god). The Metal domain (Spell Compendium) will get you Martial Weapon Proficiency (as a feat, if it matters) and Weapon Focus with your choice of the light hammer or warhammer.


If that doesn't work for some reason, I second (or whatever number I am) Ruathar.


If you still don't like those, you could try the Dragonslayer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragonslayer/) PrC in Draconomicon. The prerequisites are a bit of a pain, but it grants proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with shields and tower shields. That will let you get into Spellsword, so you can maybe wear armor.

[HalfQuart]

If you still don't like those, you could try the Dragonslayer (http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragonslayer/) PrC in Draconomicon. The prerequisites are a bit of a pain, but it grants proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with shields and tower shields. That will let you get into Spellsword, so you can maybe wear armor.
The problem with Dragonslayer is that he's trying to qualify for Abjurant Champion and Dragonslayer has the same +5 BAB requirement.

[herrhauptmann]

The problem with Dragonslayer is that he's trying to qualify for Abjurant Champion and Dragonslayer has the same +5 BAB requirement.

So set one back by a level.
The problem isn't the 5 bab, it's the feat prereqs. Combat casting, dodge, and iron will? Ouch. Especially since most people don't know that stronger alternates to Dodge exist and can be used in place for prereqs. (Or that those prereqs don't always work correctly with other feats that require you to specify a dodge target)

[Lyndworm]

The problem with Dragonslayer is that he's trying to qualify for Abjurant Champion and Dragonslayer has the same +5 BAB requirement.
I'm aware of that; that's one of the painful prerequisites I mentioned. It would delay Abjurant Champion a level, but gives Aura of Courage, full BAB, and a d10 hit die as well as qualifies him for a Spellsword dip without losing any effective Wizard levels.

It's not a great option, but it's (in my opinion) worth considering.


So set one back by a level.
The problem isn't the 5 bab, it's the feat prereqs. Combat casting, dodge, and iron will? Ouch. Especially since most people don't know that stronger alternates to Dodge exist and can be used in place for prereqs. (Or that those prereqs don't always work correctly with other feats that require you to specify a dodge target)
Combat Casting is already required for Abjurant Champion, so it's a non-issue. The other two are painful, but Iron Will might be able to be bought from the Otyugh Hole (in Complete Scoundrel).

[Endarire]

What about taking Otherworldly or Militia, regional feats from Player's Guide to Faerun? Both grant you (indirectly and directly, respectively) proficiency with all martial weapons.

Alternatively, go Dragonslayer (Draconomicon) for full martial weapon proficiency.

[Slipperychicken]

Man, if you're a wizard hanging from a rope or the side of a cliff and all you have to defend yourself with is a sword, then your day D&D session has gone seriously wrong AWESOME at some point! :smallamused:


I noticed you misspelled the word "awesome", so I fixed it.


Seriously, swordfighting while dangling from a rope on a cliffside is the kind of thing normal people think of when they hear the word "adventuring".

[Raezeman]

Why don't you just take elf for the race of your wizard (or one of those elf sub-races that don't give constitution penalty, like wild elf), they got proficiency with the longsword and composite longbow for free!

[KillianHawkeye]

I noticed you misspelled the word "awesome", so I fixed it.


Seriously, swordfighting while dangling from a rope on a cliffside is the kind of thing normal people think of when they hear the word "adventuring".

Sorry, but no. Realize that we are talking about a Wizard here, not some Fighter or Swashbuckler to whom swordfighting and dangling from ropes is par for the course. The wielder of magical forces so powerful and inscrutable is hardly worthy of the description "normal."

I'll kindly ask you to keep your so-called "fixes" to yourself in the future.

[herrhauptmann]

I'm aware of that; that's one of the painful prerequisites I mentioned. It would delay Abjurant Champion a level, but gives Aura of Courage, full BAB, and a d10 hit die as well as qualifies him for a Spellsword dip without losing any effective Wizard levels.

It's not a great option, but it's (in my opinion) worth considering.

Thinking out loud:
Wiz 10 (for bab 5)/ Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword+AC6
I don't think the aura of courage is really worth it, the character will have a high will anyway.
Getting the free access to weapons/armor is a nice way to skip a warrior dip, as you said. (I'd recommend paladin, ranger, or barbarian in most cases. Skills and real class features beat a feat in most cases.)



Combat Casting is already required for Abjurant Champion, so it's a non-issue. The other two are painful, but Iron Will might be able to be bought from the Otyugh Hole (in Complete Scoundrel).

Dragonslayer doesn't require combat casting. At least not in the one linked.
I was just pointing out 3 feat taxes in one sentence, not the dragonslayer specific ones. I'll try to change how I list things in the future.
Of course, 3 feat taxes isn't as bad (I guess) if you're trying to get them inside of 10 levels rather than 5 or 6. Gives you room to take a "1st level only feat" without needing a flaw. (I don't like flaws, and they're not always allowed)

[Lyndworm]

I don't think the aura of courage is really worth it, the character will have a high will anyway.
Nah, it's not great. I was only mentioning it because, hey, class feature! Also, it's often considered a very flavorful (if not very useful) ability.


Dragonslayer doesn't require combat casting. At least not in the one linked.
I was just pointing out 3 feat taxes in one sentence, not the dragonslayer specific ones. I'll try to change how I list things in the future.
No, no... that's not your fault. I just honestly thought that Dragonslayer needed Combat Casting. I'm not totally sure how I did that, but I don't think it was your fault at all.