Evil aligned characters fighting DR/good

[GlorinSteampike]

So we're playing in an all evil character game, and we've proven a bit too much for our newbie DM without even trying. (I play a necromancer who does nothing but use level 1 cold spells and 1-2 zombies from the MM)

And, he's clever enough so he's throwing evil creatures with DR 10/good at us with Spell Resistance(a Vrock vs a level 6 party atm).

Now I know our cleric can still start memorizing Align Weapon to make our weapons Good aligned even if she isn't, but is there a more.. -evil- way to combat evil? I'd really like to find some kind of solution that uses dark or evil power instead of just aligning weapons for good, which seems appropriately out of character for a Priestess of Lolth.

[Lord Vukodlak]

An Evil cleric can't cast align weapon to overcome DR vs good because align weapon takes on the subtype of whatever your aligning it too.

[Helcack]

I would suggest the Dark Speech feat from BoVD, as long as they don't have too many HD it is pretty powerful.

[Magesmiley]

Now I know our cleric can still start memorizing Align Weapon to make our weapons Good aligned even if she isn't, but is there a more.. -evil- way to combat evil? I'd really like to find some kind of solution that uses dark or evil power instead of just aligning weapons for good, which seems appropriately out of character for a Priestess of Lolth.

You might try bullying them around with high Intimidate and Bluff skills. The best way to combat it in your situation is to turn it to your own ends.

But an evil priestess of Lolth using good to accomplish her ends? I think the spider goddess would be laughing merrily at the notion.

[GlorinSteampike]

An Evil cleric can't cast align weapon to overcome DR vs good because align weapon takes on the subtype of whatever your aligning it too.

Ah I did not catch that last bit.

And I'll have to check on the dark speech. The feat just says you get a bonus to a save and can use dark speech which is elsewhere in the book and I am AFB atm =/

[Equinox]

Mountain Hammer and its ilk overcomes all DR

[GlorinSteampike]

Mountain Hammer and its ilk overcomes all DR
We're not using ToB and the DM will definitely not let me boss every evil thing around. I already raise nearly everything we kill to be used as a minion.

[Ravens_cry]

Take the -1 to hit and use a good aligned weapon that you store on a minion/ally when not in use. 5% more chance to hit isn't worth the -whatever to damage for not being able to overcome that DR.

[Spore]

Take the -1 to hit and use a good aligned weapon that you store on a minion/ally when not in use. 5% more chance to hit isn't worth the -whatever to damage for not being able to overcome that DR.

Don't good aligned weapons give evil creatures temporary negative levels? Or is that just PF?

[Benthesquid]

A) Do more damage. More eeeevil damage!
B) Force a creature with the (good) subtype to fight for you using it's natural attacks, which are considered good aligned.
C) Manipulate a paladin into fighting it, then kill the Paladin once he's fulfilled his purpose.
D) In Pathfinder, enhancement bonuses can double for various properties to overcome damage reduction. A weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus counts as silver or cold iron for purposes of overcoming DR, a +4 weapon as adamantine, and a +5 weapon as having the necessary alignment I have no idea whether this is the case in 3.5.
E) If your objective isn't specifically to kill it, try circumventing the obstacle it presents in another manner. Convince it that your on the same side side. Sneak around it. Lure it into a trap. Put a dab of lavender in milk. Leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it. Feed it some innocents/unproductive party members. Bribe it.

[Ravens_cry]

Don't good aligned weapons give evil creatures temporary negative levels? Or is that just PF?
When wielded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holy), yes.

It bestows one negative level on any evil creature attempting to wield it. The negative level remains as long as the weapon is in hand and disappears when the weapon is no longer wielded.
You don't even need to store it elsewhere, just keep it sheathed until needed.
It sucks, but it's better than having to eat that DR.

[Prime32]

Polymorph into a creature with the good subtype. If that's not evil enough for you, then when you turn into an angel say you're turning into "a twisted mockery of angel" (heavily deformed, black wings that bleed everywhere, oversized mouth of needle teeth that's constantly screaming, etc.).

[ArcturusV]

Side note on dark speech: You probably couldn't take it at your level anyway. Dark Speech has a requirement of BASE will save of +5. Unless you dipped a lot I suppose then you could have taken it at level 6. But it has a few handy powers. In particular Halcack was probably referring to the ability to awe creatures with it. It's only really effective on creatures with 10 HD or less, so by the time you pick it up it tends to be of marginal use for that ability. Or at least you're on the clock for how long it'll be helpful. It does have other useful abilities worth picking up however.

[Psyren]

Vrocks have a whopping DR 10/good. Your melee should just be power attacking through it.

[GlorinSteampike]

Vrocks have a whopping DR 10/good. Your melee should just be power attacking through it.

Unfortunately we're the opposite of optimized. My necromancer does the 2nd most melee damage with 16 str. My Skeleton familiar being the highest lol. We have a shuriken rogue, an awakened ferret bard, a control sorc who can't beat it's SR(nor can I usually) and a lolth cleric.

Thanks for the help guys. I don't think we quite have the resources available to really do anything except see if my skeleton's DR can withstand his lol

[Psyren]

We have a shuriken rogue, an awakened ferret bard, a control sorc who can't beat it's SR(nor can I usually) and a lolth cleric.

♪ ♫ "I smell a sit-com!" ♩ ♬

[Dayaz]

...If you can argue it, learn the 2nd level spell that hides you alignment. I've argued that if your alignment is hidden, the sword can't give you a neg level if it doesn't know your evil and been allowed it.

Then you are an evil guy, tricking a good/holy weapon into working as if you were a good character. Y'know, because evil.

[hamishspence]

That seems a bit iffy.

However, one can use the Emulate An Alignment function of the Use Magic Device skill, to emulate an alignment that can safely wield the weapon.

[Dayaz]

That seems a bit iffy.

However, one can use the Emulate An Alignment function of the Use Magic Device skill, to emulate an alignment that can safely wield the weapon.

Like I said, I had to argue it. At the time it was really important, so I made the argument.

[Ravens_cry]

That seems a bit iffy.

However, one can use the Emulate An Alignment function of the Use Magic Device skill, to emulate an alignment that can safely wield the weapon.
That works too. It's what it's there for. It might even make for an interesting back story for an intelligent weapon. For centuries it was wielded by an Evil user, but it was always convinced of its wielder's righteousness, coming up with justifications for their reprehensible actions. After that user died and they twigged to what was really happening, they begged to be destroyed by their next user, but that user died fighting something, and so it was forced to wait.
When the PC's find it, they find a weapon who wants to die and is very cynical.

[Psyren]

Undetectable Alignment protects you from divination - but a Holy/Unholy sword isn't using divination, it's just plain reacting to you.

[Dayaz]

That works too. It's what it's there for. It might even make for an interesting back story for an intelligent weapon. For centuries it was wielded by an Evil user, but it was always convinced of its wielder's righteousness, coming up with justifications for their reprehensible actions. After that user died and they twigged to what was really happening, they begged to be destroyed by their next user, but that user died fighting something, and so it was forced to wait.
When the PC's find it, they find a weapon who wants to die and is very cynical.

...Okay, I'm using this in a story. This would work far too well with a character I'm writing a story/book about. Is it okay with you if I take it?

[Ravens_cry]

...Okay, I'm using this in a story. This would work far too well with a character I'm writing a story/book about. Is it okay with you if I take it?
Go right ahead; I am honoured.:smallredface:

[Angelalex242]

For that matter, how does the Blood War work?

It's safe bet all the devils sensibly have cold iron weapons, and all the demons have silver weapons...

But neither side can have GOOD weapons...

No wonder the blood war takes so damn long!

[Spore]

Unfortunately we're the opposite of optimized. My necromancer does the 2nd most melee damage with 16 str. My Skeleton familiar being the highest lol. We have a shuriken rogue, an awakened ferret bard, a control sorc who can't beat it's SR(nor can I usually) and a lolth cleric.

Thanks for the help guys. I don't think we quite have the resources available to really do anything except see if my skeleton's DR can withstand his lol

That sounds like a job for Diplomacy!

"Be my underling and the world will bend to out knees!"

[ben-zayb]

For that matter, how does the Blood War work?

It's safe bet all the devils sensibly have cold iron weapons, and all the demons have silver weapons...

But neither side can have GOOD weapons...

No wonder the blood war takes so damn long!
The most common tactic, was for Devils to shower the demons with fire damage. But demons are infinite so they just sort of pop right back in.

As for the OP: what about dealing Vile damage? Or energy damage, since your party seems laid back enough to apply fiery burst on their weapons.

[GlorinSteampike]

Unfortunately being a necromancer, and having an evil cleric and the DM's aversion(as most DM's have) to letting NPCs just join the party/help them out in any way diplomacy or any other form of control is just going to be bad for us in the end. It will for all intents and purposes go against our Gentleman's agreement if I just go around controlling everything(as I very well could for the most part)


As for the OP: what about dealing Vile damage? Or energy damage, since your party seems laid back enough to apply fiery burst on their weapons.

Unfortunately we don't have the resources at the moment. We can't beat its SR reliably and the game has been on hiatus for 2 weeks. I believe this saturday we'll be back at it and I'll look into acquiring some form of energy damage. I'm kicking myself for not grabbing a bigsby spell. Right now my spells are all debuffs/control spells with a lot of setup, or cold damage aoe that won't hurt my undead or myself.

[KillianHawkeye]

D) In Pathfinder, enhancement bonuses can double for various properties to overcome damage reduction. A weapon with a +3 enhancement bonus counts as silver or cold iron for purposes of overcoming DR, a +4 weapon as adamantine, and a +5 weapon as having the necessary alignment I have no idea whether this is the case in 3.5.

That is absolutely not the case in 3.5 D&D.

[Psyren]

For that matter, how does the Blood War work?

It's safe bet all the devils sensibly have cold iron weapons, and all the demons have silver weapons...

But neither side can have GOOD weapons...

No wonder the blood war takes so damn long!

Somehow I doubt that 10 damage lost per hit was slowing all the Balors and Bebiliths to a crawl :smalltongue:

[demigodus]

For that matter, how does the Blood War work?

It's safe bet all the devils sensibly have cold iron weapons, and all the demons have silver weapons...

But neither side can have GOOD weapons...

No wonder the blood war takes so damn long!

If you have DR/evil, your natural attacks ignore DR/evil

[beforemath]

You could summon Dire Weasel after Dire Weasel to drain away his Constitution.

You could buy the Rogue a wand of Blindness/Deafness, and he could snipe the Vrock at max range (~130 ft) until he's eventually blind and deaf.

You could take the extra time to set up a Magic Circle Against Chaos and laugh at him raging about his impotency for about 60 minutes.

You could use Flame Arrow on the Shuriken Rogue and have the rest of the team pelt him with Alchemist's fire (I think 3.5 resistance is on a per-round basis and not per-attack). Maybe a roll or two will get lucky.

You could catch him in the Web spell.

You could make him slip up with the Grease spell.



So, yeah... Talking might be the best option.

[kardar233]

Somehow I doubt that 10 damage lost per hit was slowing all the Balors and Bebiliths to a crawl :smalltongue:

Horned Devils and Pit Fiends have Regeneration that's only bypassed by Good Silver weapons or [Good] spells. That is.... problematical.

[TuggyNE]

If you have DR/evil, your natural attacks ignore DR/evil

True, but remember that the only things with DR/evil are [Good] Outsiders and a rare few PCs with good-restricted magic items.

Fiends have DR/good.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you have DR/evil, your natural attacks ignore DR/evil

Actually, that's completely false. That works for DR/magic and DR/epic, but not for any other type of DR.

[hamishspence]

True.

It's alignment subtypes, that grant ability to overcome the relevant DR:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#evilSubtype

A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).

Same with the other 3.