Clerics worshipping deities of a race other than their own?

[Isamu Dyson]

Would you allow this? If so, what justification/s (if any) from the interested player are required?

[Psyren]

Being raised among them? Fascination with other cultures?

Race as a concept mattering to deities has always seemed silly to me anyway. These are beings with no set physical form, why do they care where the prayers come from? And half of them turned out to be masquerading to pick up the human vote anyway, such as Talos turning out to be Grummsh and Selune turning out to be Sehanine Moonbow.

[Isamu Dyson]

Some deities literally create entire races, such as Corellon Larethian and the elves.

[inexorabletruth]

I think the real question is, why would anyone forbid this? That would be like saying white people couldn't be Buddhists, or Jewish people couldn't be Christians.

If a certain god appeals to your character, either through backstory, personal alignment, or just random personal preference, it's only natural that they would worship that god or goddess or collection thereof. Sprinkle in a little extra devotion, and blamo: Cleric.

[KillianHawkeye]

I wouldn't forbid it, but I would at least want to know the in-character reason for it because it's supposed to be somewhat unusual.

[Spore]

And half of them turned out to be masquerading to pick up the human vote anyway, such as Talos turning out to be Grummsh and Selune turning out to be Sehanine Moonbow.

I like that concept anyway.

In one of our fan made worlds, the creator sees gods only as divine energy sources with different names from different peoples.

So the sun god Ra has about one dozen different names and you still get spells even if you don't particularly worship him. You just have to work in the deity's favor.

[Psyren]

I like that concept anyway.

I do too; it makes the racial deities more major players in the setting. It can also cause interesting crises of faith for the clerics who find out they were, say, worshiping Grummsh or Lolth the whole time.

In Golarion, there are no real racial deities - certain races lean towards one over the rest (e.g. Elves lean towards Calistria) but the pantheon isn't segregated or subdivided into racial pantheons.

[AuraTwilight]

Pfft yea like a God's going to turn down free worship.

[Isamu Dyson]

If the racial deity in question is evil, might not there be a greater chance that they are racist/xenophobic?

[Psyren]

Is the racial deity in question is evil, might not there be a greater chance that they are racist/xenophobic?

Some are - I don't see Zarus wanting non-human worshipers for instance. But others are okay with it as long as you acknowledge that their primary/chosen race are the ideal to be emulated. Lolth allows evil elves to worship her for instance.

[Alaris]

My first character in D&D was a Half Elf w/ Hot Pink Hair (Central Casting), Male... and worshiped Moradin, God of the Dwarves.

~.~ No, I don't know why... I hadn't been interested in D&D at the time and was kinda pushed into it by a few of my friends. I'm still trying to come up with a real reason for him worshiping Moradin...

[Dusk Eclipse]

D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook page 106:
A character may not be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is of the right race, but he may worship such deity and live according to that deity's guidance.

So no Dwarven Clerics of Corellon Larethian, but you may have a dwarven wizard who worships him.

Edit: This doesn't seem to be on the SRD.

[Ravens_cry]

I guess it depends on how anthropomorphic your gods are.
If the 'racial' gods are a local personification of a greater force, with every culture having their own version, I don't see the issue, except, perhaps, with other members of the clergy. The god themselves might not take issue.
On the other hand, an ascended member of some race probably don't want no stinkin' humans worshipping them up. You never know where their prayers have been!:smallyuk:

[123456789blaaa]

Being raised among them? Fascination with other cultures?

Race as a concept mattering to deities has always seemed silly to me anyway. These are beings with no set physical form, why do they care where the prayers come from? And half of them turned out to be masquerading to pick up the human vote anyway, such as Talos turning out to be Grummsh and Selune turning out to be Sehanine Moonbow.

Well that's why most dieites don't care that much about race. Racial dieites specifically create the races they are the racial dieites of. They are intrinsically tied to each other. For example, the Blood Queen is a personification of what it means to be an aboleth.

[CyberThread]

I was raised by wolves....


*hint hint...plot point*

[ericp65]

Mielikki is known to have some elves among her followers, as well as humans. Some deities are cross-racially friendly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Most deities are cross-race friendly, the "problem" onky arises when someone wans to worship a racial deity (like Moradin, Corellon Larethian or Zarus) as a member of a different race than your own, which is explicitly not permitted by RAW.

[Sugashane]

Would you allow this? If so, what justification/s (if any) from the interested player are required?

I absolutely would, though they would have to present a reason (even just a fluff background) to worship them, rather than just going for a domain.

I had a human who was a follower of Moradin. He was raised by a dwarf (like Wulfgar) and came to respect the structure in the Dwarves' way of life, and being a melee combatant he also respected their natural sturdiness. They might have to prove themselves to the deity in some way, but the ruling against it has always been thrown out in the games I have played in or run.

[navar100]

In Pathfinder while Golarion doesn't have racial deities per se, the PC CG elf Mystic Theurge does worship the LG deity Torag who has a strong affiliation with dwarves. Originally the character was a wizard, but the player was willing to go Mystic Theurge because the party at the time had no healer. As adventures happened the party kept finding relics in reference to Torag. The character took it as a sign and began to worship Torag.

[Isamu Dyson]

They might have to prove themselves to the deity in some way, but the ruling against it has always been thrown out in the games I have played in or run.

Consider this: some clergy might not take kindly to an "outsider" being among their ranks of worshipers :smallfrown:.

[Fax Celestis]

Starting to think you posted this to argue instead of to get an answer.

[TuggyNE]

Starting to think you posted this to argue instead of to get an answer.

But surely no one would ever post merely to confirm their preconceived notions! :smalleek:

[tadkins]

Bahamut would be a pretty common racial deity that is worshipped by outsiders, wouldn't he? He's a dragon deity but appeals to a lot of non-dragons.

[Ravens_cry]

I absolutely would, though they would have to present a reason (even just a fluff background) to worship them, rather than just going for a domain.

I had a human who was a follower of Moradin. He was raised by a dwarf (like Wulfgar) and came to respect the structure in the Dwarves' way of life, and being a melee combatant he also respected their natural sturdiness. They might have to prove themselves to the deity in some way, but the ruling against it has always been thrown out in the games I have played in or run.
Or Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson. That might be a better example, as Wulfgar was basically an adult by his original tribe's standards at the time he was 'adopted'.

[Isamu Dyson]

Bahamut would be a pretty common racial deity that is worshipped by outsiders, wouldn't he? He's a dragon deity but appeals to a lot of non-dragons.

Wasn't there an officially published human Paladin that worships Bahamut?

[Ravens_cry]

Wasn't there an officially published human Paladin that worships Bahamut?
Worships, yes, but Paladins don't get their powers from gods specifically but a greater force of Good and (to a lesser extent) Law.

[Jeff the Green]

I think the real question is, why would anyone forbid this? That would be like saying white people couldn't be Buddhists, or Jewish people couldn't be Christians.

Well, there are real religions that don't accept converts, and so essentially are "race" or ethnicity specific, in as much as race is a real thing. They're really rare nowadays, though—I can only think of one that still has a significant following. They're rare because once proselytization was invented those religions took over.

If you imagine religion as a cancer (not a value judgement on religion; just a useful model for how things spread), a tribe-/city-/ethnicity-/nation-specific faith is your garden-variety tumor. It can be transmitted parent-to-child (in the form of genes predisposing to cancer), but unless the people who 'have' it reproduce a lot it's not going to go far.

Proselytizing religions, which account for most worshippers in the modern world, are devil facial tumor disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_facial_tumour_disease). It's transmitted vertically like non-proselytizing religions, but also horizontally, person-to-person.

So, I suspect that there's a good chance of there existing faiths that are race-specific in your garden-variety D&D world, even leaving out overtly racist deities like that one in RoD. People are tribal and clannish; their first instinct is to define 'us' as 'the people I grew up with' and 'them' as 'everyone else'. It takes fairly unique people to change 'us's definition to 'people who have the same outlook and goals as I do, regardless of what they look like.'