What would you rather have?

[Morithias]

Need your opinions on something.

Which item would you rather have?

Gauntlets - +2 str, +2 dex, +10% experience points - Tied to Undead
Cloak - +3% gold, +3% XP, - Tied to Humans
Axe - +3 attack/damage, +20% gold - Tied to Bandits

Each item is part of a set whose set bonus is in essence a very powerful boost to it's group.

Edit: These are artifacts, they cannot be bought.

[Talya]

Need your opinions on something.

Which items would you rather have?

Gauntlets - +2 str, +2 dex, +10% experience points - Tied to Undead
Cloak - +3% gold, +3% XP, - Tied to Humans
Axe - +3 attack/damage, +20% gold - Tied to Bandits

Each item is part of a set whose set bonus is in essence a very powerful boost to it's group.

That would greatly depend on my character, both mechanically and in terms of "fluffiness."

[lunar2]

i want the item that is somehow making more gold appear out of nowhere. just for the sake of devaluing the currency.

[ryu]

Need your opinions on something.

Which items would you rather have?

Gauntlets - +2 str, +2 dex, +10% experience points - Tied to Undead
Cloak - +3% gold, +3% XP, - Tied to Humans
Axe - +3 attack/damage, +20% gold - Tied to Bandits

Each item is part of a set whose set bonus is in essence a very powerful boost to it's group.

Since XP is a river, and I craft rubberband anyway? I'd take the axe of stupidly high gold. This is of course on the assumption that your DM scales encounters tied somewhat to level. If not the gauntlets are AMAZING.

[ArcturusV]

My instinct is for the Axe of Filthy Lucre myself. Wealth is... more or less the most powerful resource you have in the game. I'd rather be level 2 with level 4 wealth, than level 4 with level 2 wealth, for example.

[starwoof]

Get the Axe of Extra Monies and buy the other two.:smalltongue:

[Morithias]

Get the Axe of Extra Monies and buy the other two.:smalltongue:

They're artifacts. They can't be bought. Or crafted. They're leftover items from a civilization from ages ago.

I mean you might be able to buy one at auction, for an insane amount of cash. Like 5 million gold.

[lsfreak]

Yea, extra monies, hands-down. None of the other stats even matter. XP certainly doesn't - it's not like levelgrinding to cap like in an MMO or anything. The +2str/dex on the gauntlets is by and large useless unless you're picking these up in the first five levels or so, and even then will go by the wayside rather quickly. Not particularly fond of the +3atk/dmg on the axe, assuming it's just a +3 weapon, but it's way better than the +2str/dex.

[TuggyNE]

What's the "tied to" mean? Only X can use it (bandits? really?)? Or it only applies against X?

[ArcturusV]

Good question Tuggy. Hmm... Minor powers/theme/desire to impact affairs related to?

[Morithias]

What's the "tied to" mean? Only X can use it (bandits? really?)? Or it only applies against X?

Basically it's part of an artifact set, that gives a large bonus to people, and groups commanded by the people who fall into the area.

For example a leader that finds the whole 'bandit' set...well...let's just say the town guard is going to have trouble with him.


Yea, extra monies, hands-down. None of the other stats even matter. XP certainly doesn't - it's not like levelgrinding to cap like in an MMO or anything. The +2str/dex on the gauntlets is by and large useless unless you're picking these up in the first five levels or so, and even then will go by the wayside rather quickly. Not particularly fond of the +3atk/dmg on the axe, assuming it's just a +3 weapon, but it's way better than the +2str/dex.

Noted....

What if it was +2 attack, +2 AC?

[awa]

that's a really good question it never occurred to me you might only get that bonus against those targets and in that case i would want a definition of bandit.
edit
double ninjaed

[Morithias]

that's a really good question it never occurred to me you might only get that bonus against those targets and in that case i would want a definition of bandit.

Not against those targets. The set gives a large bonus TO those targets.

[Talya]

The +2str/dex on the gauntlets is by and large useless unless you're picking these up in the first five levels or so, and even then will go by the wayside rather quickly.

That's only true if it's an enhancement bonus. If it stacks with enhancement bonuses, all bets are off.

[Morithias]

That's only true if it's an enhancement bonus. If it stacks with enhancement bonuses, all bets are off.

Precursor Artifacts stack with anything. Even each other.

Yes, that means someone who has all 3 items would have +13% experience, and +23% gold.

[lsfreak]

That's only true if it's an enhancement bonus. If it stacks with enhancement bonuses, all bets are off.

Completely true. I just assumed enhancement, since other bonuses are rare to nonexistent. If it's just a flat +2 untyped bonus, the gauntlets could be useful to a melee provided the axe is just a +3 weapon. Still though, that amount of extra money from the axe is likely to be able to make up for way more than the extra 1AC, 1 attack and 2 damage of the gloves.

+2 attack +2 AC might be a bit better. But still, an extra 20% gold is huge. Like someone else said, short of extra actions money's probably the best thing to get more of (and with hirelings, it effectively gives you extra actions). The cloak is such a small bonus that it's not really worth it at all, and it's primarily the gold half of it that would sway me, not the XP.

Honestly, my first thought though it that these stats - bonus XP and gold rewards - don't really belong in D&D as I envision it. They're too video gamey for me... in Diablo, no one questions where gold comes from, and thanks to level-grinding extra XP would be highly desired. In D&D, there's at least some vague notion of loot making sense, and an item that rewrites reality to add gold because some particular person is looting the place stretches it for me. And extra XP doesn't really do anything because challenges are supposed to be tuned to the party; like I said, it's not a rush to level cap so you can do the fun stuff.

[ArcturusV]

Well, the loot makes sense to me in so far as various "Luck" things tend to in DnD. Rather than just making gold coins shoot out your axe or something it involves cosmic coincidence, that guard you just slain had an extra gold ring on him worth that +20%. Or you find a gem on the ground where it fell out of the altar, that your teammates just missed in the search, etc.

I presume it's more like that, as opposed to just shooting gold out your butt.

[Talya]

Generally I'd take the axe, so long as I can gain the gold benefit without actually killing stuff with it. (Like... "Can I use this +5 sword of uberkilling cheesiness and keep the axe on my belt and get the bonus gold?")

[GreenETC]

Gold is almost always worth more than anything. I've sold incredibly powerful items my DM has made just so I could get more gold to spend on stuff I want.

[Morithias]

Alright then.

It's clear the Axe is considered the best by far too much of an amount.

I must be over-estimating the value of XP.

Very well then.

Thank you for your time.

[ArcturusV]

Mostly because of how XP works, even with the bonus you never really "Get ahead". At least not for long.

If I had +10% XP, eventually yes I'll be a level higher than my teammates. However that means they will start earning a lot more XP than the +10% that I earn. They'll catch up. I won't really "get ahead" unless you're using some non-standard variant with fixed XP values rather than XP based off the CR of the challenges you face.

So the XP doesn't factor in as a big benefit. It only really means that effectively 1-2 challenges per level you'll be +1 level over your teammates. But the advantage won't last much longer than that.

Also keep in mind that wealth can buy most of the benefits of leveling. Additional HP, Attack Bonuses, Save Bonuses, Spells, Class Features, etc, can all be gained by spending wealth in various ways. So you get the effect of "extra levels" while still leveling just as fast as your teammates, making you just flatly more powerful than they are as compared to being more powerful than them for just 1-2 encounters.

[Morithias]

What if the XP bonus was...group based?

As in as long as SOMEONE is wearing the item, the whole party gets the bonus?

[ArcturusV]

Might become the item that is passed around to whoever is unlucky enough to have it. I mean the bonuses on it aren't... baaaaad. But it's not really "Artifact worth". Your barbarian for example would probably rather have some +6 Strength off Gauntlets of Ogre Power compared to a +2 str, +2 Dex.

It's just screaming out for some minor powers to round it out, otherwise it'll lag behind a stat boost gauntlet on a stat someone wants to focus on, or some other item. It'd probably be thrown off onto the character who would least likely use it, like a Wizard or Sorcerer.

[Story]

Hey, a +2 dex that stacks with everything is useful on a caster, even if it isn't the most earthshattering thing. Dex is usually a tertiary or secondary stat for casters, since it boosts initiative. (Also AC and to hit, but that's a lot less important).

I think XP is more valuable if you consider it in the context of spending it to get items crafted more cheaply, or spending it on XP costing spells or LA buyoff or something. Though it's still hard to value.

[lsfreak]

Again, the problem is what gaining levels means in D&D.

In a video game, extra XP means you get abilities faster, more hit points, and all that good stuff. It means you can take on harder scenarios, and get to a level cap where the "real" stuff happens. If there is no real cap, you're still likely killing stuff faster, or gaining the stats needed to make a conversation option available, or getting to the point where you out-level a boss and can kill it easier.

In D&D, gaining extra XP doesn't really change much. You level faster, but when you level, things get harder with you. There's no inherent goal to hit level X so that you can go on raids, or so you can get more stats before you face the boss, or head to more difficult areas, because it's built into the system that challenges more or less scale with you. The only thing that really crosses over is getting new abilities faster, which is always fun, but while this adds more options in terms of what you can do, you're not usually one-upping the non-PCs because they got stronger too.

[PersonMan]

Again, the problem is what gaining levels means in D&D.

Yep.

The entire group getting more XP doesn't really matter, apart from the enjoyment of getting new levels faster. It's like Track. If the DM wants you to be level X by a certain time, you'll be that level, with or without bonus XP, so getting bonus XP from an in-game item it just an odd way of speeding up your progression. The DM can just as easily say something like "XP gains go up by 50% because I want you all to level faster".

[The Insanity]

Is this LoL/DOTA inspired?

[Chronos]

"Gold find" isn't necessarily a computer-game-only trait: It shows up, for instance, on Tolkien's seven dwarvish rings, and it's hard to get much more classic fantasy than Tolkien.

[AzureKnight]

if i were stuck with the gauntlets i would be depresses expecially at higher levels, maybe since they are artifacts, more power could be released as the wearer advances in kevek?

JAust in idea but +1 at levels 1-5, + 2 levels 5-10, +3 levels 11-15, +4 levels 16-20, and cound continue into epic levels, then id shank my granny to keep those puppies lol

[Zero grim]

I would choose either of the money earning ones and then give all my money to a friend then take it back off them, keep doing that forever until i was king/god, bonus XP is actually hurts players, the faster you level up the less chance you have for loot or making connection or establishing yourself, so you'll level up soon and acquire harder enemies with less of the other resources you need.

Id want something more like:

Gauntlets: +2 to str+dex, +4 bonus on saves against effects that would make you lose a level/reduce XP costs by 5%

Cloak: humans are automatically one step friendly towards you/you sell items for more buy for less

Axe: +3 to hit/damage, when you kill an enemy with this axe the axe creates a ruby worth 50g per HD of the enemy.

[Story]

I would choose either of the money earning ones and then give all my money to a friend then take it back off them, keep doing that forever until i was king/god, bonus XP is actually hurts players, the faster you level up the less chance you have for loot or making connection or establishing yourself, so you'll level up soon and acquire harder enemies with less of the other resources you need.


That is easily fixed. Just spend all your XP on crafting. If you have some left over, transfer it to NPC crafters in exchange for a bit of extra gold. If worst comes to worst, just burn it on XP costing spells.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That is easily fixed. Just spend all your XP on crafting. If you have some left over, transfer it to NPC crafters in exchange for a bit of extra gold. If worst comes to worst, just burn it on XP costing spells.
Agreed. 10% extra XP on, oh, an Artificer? I know experience is a river and all, but there's something to be said for never even starting to fall behind.