why is monstrous crab so infamous?

[lunar2]

it doesn't seem [i]that[i] bad, like maybe it should have been a CR 4 instead of a 3. but that's no worse than anything in the monster manual, many of which are off by one or two CRs.

[Boci]

+10 to hit, 2 attacks, autograpple on successful hit, +19 grapple modifier. Those are considered its worse features.

[lsfreak]

And large size. Gets an AoO when someone tries to attack, the person immediately ends up in a grapple because lawl+19mod. They'd never even get a hit off.

[tyckspoon]

Also its default tactic is 'scuttle out of the water, grapple a couple of prey creatures, and scuttle back into the water to drown and eat them.' Not a lot of low-level characters are equipped for dealing with its grapple capabilities and especially not for fighting or surviving underwater.

It's not a terribly difficult fight in open terrain - intelligent use of spells and ranged weapons will take it down easily. But it's not supposed to be encountered in open terrain; you run into it when it's hunting on the beach.

[LokeyITP]

It's also fast and immune to mind spells below 3rd or so. You see it first and you're fast and can do decent damage at range or your party's dead.

Here's the famous post about it: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21046 (warning: frank likes his profanity).

[Spore]

I am quite saddened that the crab has no attackable weak points for massive damage (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=attack%20its%20weak%20point%20for% 20massive%20damage). (As another trope some MMOs of the WoW era had crab elite mobs positioned in the starting areas that would crush new players :smallsmile:).

[Isamu Dyson]

Use a huge amount of butter the way you would a grease spell, and wait until the crab fails the appropriate roll to stay steady.

Then, you can jump (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/227/b/6/crab_battle_by_tavarezillustration-d5b6s2v.jpg) in for a (tasty) kill.

[Averis Vol]

Using a huge amount of butter the way you would a grease spell, and wait until the crab fails the appropriate roll to stay steady.

Then, you can jump in for a (tastyhopefully quick and painful) kill.

Fixed that. Seafood is dead to me ever since I learned crabs were spiders. :smalltongue:

[ZamielVanWeber]

Fixed that. Seafood is dead to me ever since I learned crabs were spiders. :smalltongue:

Spiders and crabs don't even share a subphylum. :smallconfused: They are pretty radically different.

Trust me: this thing can eat a prepped team for lunch. The ambush tactic it is designed for will simply end what would otherwise be sizable parties.

[Tvtyrant]

Fixed that. Seafood is dead to me ever since I learned crabs were spiders. :smalltongue:

In the same way that eating fish is cannibalism, as fish are humans.

[Scumbaggery]

In Soviet Faerun, crab eats YOU!

[Isamu Dyson]

Fixed that. Seafood is dead to me ever since I learned crabs were spiders. :smalltongue:

Sorry. I can't give up crab rangoon :smallcool:.

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http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/280/b/a/skyrim__the_crab_mount_by_blazbaros-d5h3ti4.png

[elonin]

Don't think grease will work. I don't know them mechanically but crabs have many legs which should give a huge bonus vs trip/slip attacks

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Also 'That Damn Crab', which is the monsterous crab with template-stacking. Makes for a surprising challenge. Moreso than the Tarrasque, anyways.

[Isamu Dyson]

Don't think grease will work. I don't know them mechanically but crabs have many legs which should give a huge bonus vs trip/slip attacks

+4, right?

[Crake]

+4, right?

+4 per set of extra legs, but I don't think that applies to balance checks?

[lsfreak]

+4 per set of extra legs, but I don't think that applies to balance checks?

Not even sure it's that. Afaik, bull rush, overrun and trip each have a clause about gaining a +4 bonus for having more than two legs. No bonus beyond just "more than two legs," nothing about Balance. The dwarven version doesn't even apply to overrun (I like to think the devs even forgot it existed, since everyone else does).

[Fax Celestis]

I may or may not have had something (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57301) to do with its infamousness.

[Dimers]

I may or may not have had something (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57301) to do with its infamousness.

I really love the "Feats: Toughness ..." on that thing. :smallbiggrin:

[BWR]

Everyone (http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1350/cekuonx.jpg)knows (http://www.steveargyle.com/gallery/artwork/?artwork_id=9)Crab (http://www.steveargyle.com/gallery/artwork/?artwork_id=10)are (http://www.drewbaker.com/l5r/group31.asp)hardcore (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080102212333/l5r/images/b/bb/Aoiko_Meets_Kisada.jpg)

[Chronos]

Quoth ShneekyTheLost:

Also 'That Damn Crab', which is the monsterous crab with template-stacking. Makes for a surprising challenge. Moreso than the Tarrasque, anyways.
No, "That Damn Crab" is just the base version, which is hugely overpowered for its CR. The one with the templates is "That Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab", as linked by Fax, which really loses a lot of its impressiveness, since the templates increase its CR to a much more sane level, and anything with epic templates piled on it is going to be nasty regardless of the base creature.

[Fax Celestis]

No, "That Damn Crab" is just the base version, which is hugely overpowered for its CR. The one with the templates is "That Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab", as linked by Fax, which really loses a lot of its impressiveness, since the templates increase its CR to a much more sane level, and anything with epic templates piled on it is going to be nasty regardless of the base creature.

On page seven of the thread is That Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab which is pretty terrifying for a CR 33.

[Haldir]

Let's no forget that it's habitat is water. If the DM wanted to snipe a party member, he'd just need to hide one in the next body of water and drown the poor fool. I like to think this is why it was designed.

[Spuddles]

Also its default tactic is 'scuttle out of the water, grapple a couple of prey creatures, and scuttle back into the water to drown and eat them.' Not a lot of low-level characters are equipped for dealing with its grapple capabilities and especially not for fighting or surviving underwater.

It's not a terribly difficult fight in open terrain - intelligent use of spells and ranged weapons will take it down easily. But it's not supposed to be encountered in open terrain; you run into it when it's hunting on the beach.

Yes, but when it does that, it takes a -20 to grapple checks. So it "only" has a +9 grapple when using its tactics as written.

[Spuddles]

In the same way that eating fish is cannibalism, as fish are humans.

I know the point you're making, but humans are fish is accurate, phylogenetically.


Don't think grease will work. I don't know them mechanically but crabs have many legs which should give a huge bonus vs trip/slip attacks

You dont grease the ground, you grease the poor fellow in its claws!


+4 per set of extra legs, but I don't think that applies to balance checks?

I thought the +4 per set of legs was a PF rule? I dont even know anymore.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yes, but when it does that, it takes a -20 to grapple checks. So it "only" has a +9 grapple when using its tactics as written.
Where are you getting that penalty from? :smallconfused:


You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#ifYoureGrappling)

[herrhauptmann]

I thought the +4 per set of legs was a PF rule? I dont even know anymore.
More than 1 set of extra legs doesn't matter in 3.5. Now a lot of the extra legged creatures are also big, which grants additional +4's, and many have high strength scores. Generally resulting in a nearly untrippable creature.
PF? No idea.

[Telok]

The crab is considered powerful by melee combat characters who get surprised by it and then try to stand still and punch it to death.

It has no ranged ability, no stealth ability, no intelligence, and no skills. Simply digging a pit, covering it with a tarp, and staking out a goat for bait will sucessfully defeat this monster. Adventurers shouldn't be killing these things, commoners can do it pretty easily.

[Jack_Simth]

Where are you getting that penalty from? :smallconfused:Improved Grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab), so that it can just waltz on back into the water at full speed, rather than having to fight for every inch.

[LogosDragon]

The crab is considered powerful by melee combat characters who get surprised by it and then try to stand still and punch it to death.

It has no ranged ability, no stealth ability, no intelligence, and no skills. Simply digging a pit, covering it with a tarp, and staking out a goat for bait will sucessfully defeat this monster. Adventurers shouldn't be killing these things, commoners can do it pretty easily.

Correction: It is considered powerful by characters who might still be walking along beaches to reach their destinations. Y'know, like the 3rd level characters this thing is supposed to be designed to fight, since there's likely no access to Flight and even less access to reliable Flight. And I'd like to see which wizard you're playing that succeeds on its grapple against the giant crab that popped out and initiated when you had no idea it would be there.

[Story]

The crab is considered powerful by melee combat characters who get surprised by it and then try to stand still and punch it to death.

It has no ranged ability, no stealth ability, no intelligence, and no skills. Simply digging a pit, covering it with a tarp, and staking out a goat for bait will sucessfully defeat this monster. Adventurers shouldn't be killing these things, commoners can do it pretty easily.

Sure if you're prepared it's easy, but its stated tactics is to ambush you on the beach.

[Urpriest]

Improved Grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab), so that it can just waltz on back into the water at full speed, rather than having to fight for every inch.

Improved Grab still imposes a -20 penalty to hold the opponent without being grappled oneself. That said, the crab can just move the grapple as was pointed out earlier. Anyway, one thing to be careful about: the monstrous crabs in Stormwrack are not That Damn Crab. That Damn Crab is the one from the web enhancement, and is significantly deadlier.

[Jack_Simth]

Improved Grab still imposes a -20 penalty to hold the opponent without being grappled oneself.Context:
I was answering a post from Grod_The_Giant asking where a particular penalty came from. The listed penalty had been noted by Spuddles as -20.

So... yeah, I'm very well aware.

[Urpriest]

Context:
I was answering a post from Grod_The_Giant asking where a particular penalty came from. The listed penalty had been noted by Spuddles as -20.

So... yeah, I'm very well aware.

Oh I see, I had misread and thought you were on the other side of that argument.

[Psyren]

+10 to hit, 2 attacks, autograpple on successful hit, +19 grapple modifier. Those are considered its worse features.

Also vermin type, which shuts out lots of low-level staples like enchantments and patterns.

[Isamu Dyson]

By the way, which race would best know how to cook with monstrous crab?

I have a potential low-level adventure in mind...

[JaronK]

I had to fight a Huge Monsterous Crab with an E6 party of three a while back... if it weren't for the Kobold launching Manyjaws at it, my Crusader would have been toast.

The big issue is it's just really tough for lower level parties who don't seriously optimize.

JaronK

[ZamielVanWeber]

I may or may not have had something (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57301) to do with its infamousness.

It is funny how many people forget that the crab has see invisibility as an SLA.

[gooddragon1]

I am quite saddened that the crab has no attackable weak points for massive damage (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=attack%20its%20weak%20point%20for% 20massive%20damage). (As another trope some MMOs of the WoW era had crab elite mobs positioned in the starting areas that would crush new players :smallsmile:).

Firstly, the quoted post is very important. However, such an update would cost approximately 599 US dollars.

Secondly, if it doesn't have a climb speed... warlock with spider climb invocation and eldritch blast ftw.

[Mithril Leaf]

By the way, which race would best know how to cook with monstrous crab?

I have a potential low-level adventure in mind...

Half-Ogre Proto Wild Anthropomorphic Baleen Whales. :smallamused:

[Telok]

Sure if you're prepared it's easy, but its stated tactics is to ambush you on the beach.

Seriously? No skills, mindless, a 14 Dex and a 10 Wis. It's hide check is at -2, it's spot check is the d20 roll, and there's almost no bloody cover on a beach. The only people who should have problems are stupid fighter types in heavy armor. Even just taking withdraw and full run movements inland should let you escape it pretty well.

The only people who should have problems are stupid fighters who insist that melee combat is the only option in the game.

[georgie_leech]

"Ambush" does not necessarily mean attacking from a Hidden position. It can also mean a Run action being taken from the near by surf from 160 feet away, followed by Charges to stay in range if you try to flee. A base Land Speed of 40 is more than most characters have at level 3.

[limejuicepowder]

Seriously? No skills, mindless, a 14 Dex and a 10 Wis. It's hide check is at -2, it's spot check is the d20 roll, and there's almost no bloody cover on a beach. The only people who should have problems are stupid fighter types in heavy armor. Even just taking withdraw and full run movements inland should let you escape it pretty well.

The only people who should have problems are stupid fighters who insist that melee combat is the only option in the game.

Actually the crab's speed is 40, which is 33% faster than the average lightly armored character, and 100% faster than the heavily armored ones. This means that a full run won't even get a 20-foot speed character out of it's charge range. I think it's reasonable to assume the crab won't give pursuit too far from the beach, but a single round of movement isn't very far.

The only conceivable way the crab could hide is in the surf, which would actually be a pretty good hiding spot. The DM would have to make a call on what kind of hide bonus this would give, but I think it'd be substantial. As far as the crab seeing the players.....well he's got to get lucky with the rolls sometimes, right?

This actually can be broken in to 2 scenarios (warning, this gets a little metagamy). In 1), the DM wants the players to fight the crab and the spot check becomes irrelevant; a "nice" DM at least gives the players a chance to spot the crab hiding in the surf; one who was hell-bent on a TPK doesn't even give that, ruling that the surf is full cover. Either way, the crab comes charging out of the water like the nightmare it is.

In 2), the crab is just a denizen of the beach. The DM rolls his spot check, with the result determining if the crab attacks the players or not. At this point though, logic dictates that he isn't the only one, and thus it becomes a numbers game: do the players walk around the beach long enough for one of the crabs to succeed on a spot check? Even if the crab needs a 20 (it really should be a lot less than that, since the players aren't even hiding; it's just a matter of the crab looking through the water), if the players walk near 8 crabs there's a 40% chance one will attack. If the spot check is lower than that (and I think it probably should be), the chance of being ambushed by a crab goes up dramatically.

Overall, it comes down to this: the crab's stats are so overwhelming to most level 3 characters that the 10 ft radius of it's reach is a circle of death. If the PC's want to survive this thing, one of two things must happen: they see the danger the crab poses on site and execute a flawless plan that doesn't involve a single character get within 10 ft of the crab (despite the crab being faster than them), or they benefit from extreme circumstantial luck.

I think that all points to this crab being a total beast that is almost guaranteed to kill at least one party member.