Assisting grapple confusion

[Scumbaggery]

So, I've been thinking about adding summoning spells to my character's repertoire. Thematically, Summon Undead pretty much nails it. As of this moment, he can summon two Wyvern Zombies.

Now, I realize that one of the greatest strengths of Summoning spells is making your new BFF grapple. This is exactly what I want to do, plus extra. The Wyverns are capable of flight, and have a Strength score of 21 according to the MM. My DM is also allowing me to change the Toughness feat out for something better, which in this case is Improved Grapple.

So with the ability to Fly and a Strength of 21, they should easily be able to pick up an individual person. What I have a question on is...


Move: You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged
in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This
requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual
check results to move the grapple.
Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned
opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple

How would this work if both of them were assisting each other to pull the same target into the air? Would the get any bonuses, or would this just be terrible mechanically speaking? For point of reference, I'd like for them to tear someone in half with this method.

[Urpriest]

So, I've been thinking about adding summoning spells to my character's repertoire. Thematically, Summon Undead pretty much nails it. As of this moment, he can summon two Wyvern Zombies.

Now, I realize that one of the greatest strengths of Summoning spells is making your new BFF grapple. This is exactly what I want to do, plus extra. The Wyverns are capable of flight, and have a Strength score of 21 according to the MM. My DM is also allowing me to change the Toughness feat out for something better, which in this case is Improved Grapple.

So with the ability to Fly and a Strength of 21, they should easily be able to pick up an individual person. What I have a question on is...



How would this work if both of them were assisting each other to pull the same target into the air? Would the get any bonuses, or would this just be terrible mechanically speaking? For point of reference, I'd like for them to tear someone in half with this method.

You should probably be allowed to intentionally fail a grapple check (not sure if RAW you can, however). If so, the wyverns intentionally allow the other wyvern to move the grapple, so that if they both use their turns moving the grapple they can move twice the distance.

Note that since they don't act simultaneously, tearing someone in half is still not an option.

[Scumbaggery]

I see. That will work then. Phase 1 complete.


Note that since they don't act simultaneously, tearing someone in half is still not an option.

I know that, functionally, turn-based combat is the easiest to manage. However, I think that combat itself is intended to be simultaneous. Would there be some way to abuse this via opposing Strength checks vs. the poor sap who is caught between them if both wyverns were to drop their initiative to the same score?

[Spore]

So, I've been thinking about adding summoning spells to my character's repertoire. Thematically, Summon Undead pretty much nails it. As of this moment, he can summon two Wyvern Zombies.

Summoning undead would greatly benefit my PF character. Care to give me the source of that feature so that I can add it to my reportoire?

[Scumbaggery]

Summoning undead would greatly benefit my PF character. Care to give me the source of that feature so that I can add it to my reportoire?

Spell Compendium, pg. 215.

[Crake]

Should note that improved grapple requires improved unarmed strike. Also zombies don't get feats iirc Nvm, saw that the toughness feat you were talking about was the free zombie one.

Might also want to note that zombie wyverns have clumsy maneuverability, so if they fail just 1 grapple check to move their opponent, they will immediately stall and fall to the ground

[TuggyNE]

How would this work if both of them were assisting each other to pull the same target into the air? Would the get any bonuses, or would this just be terrible mechanically speaking? For point of reference, I'd like for them to tear someone in half with this method.

No bonuses, and no way to tear someone in half. Each zombie is also limited to carrying 306 lbs (light carrying capacity for Large biped), which probably means they can really only manage about 400 lbs between them.

[Scumbaggery]

Should note that improved grapple requires improved unarmed strike. Also zombies don't get feats iirc Nvm, saw that the toughness feat you were talking about was the free zombie one.

Might also want to note that zombie wyverns have clumsy maneuverability, so if they fail just 1 grapple check to move their opponent, they will immediately stall and fall to the ground

Forgot about that. I'm actually okay with this, considering Improved Grab would be better.

[Scumbaggery]

No bonuses, and no way to tear someone in half. Each zombie is also limited to carrying 306 lbs (light carrying capacity for Large biped), which probably means they can really only manage about 400 lbs between them.

There must be a way! Dropping someone on their noggin from the air is simply not enough for me.

[Urpriest]

There must be a way! Dropping someone on their noggin from the air is simply not enough for me.

Arguably, if you can tear someone in half with help, you should be about half as effective at tearing someone in half on your own. Based on that, I'd just treat "efforts to tear the opponent in half" as grapple checks to deal damage, as that's what they'd be if you were using only one grappler trying to tear someone in half.