Crusader Kings 2 Thread II: Sparkly Vampire Invasion

[Avaris]

This is the general discussion thread for Crusader Kings 2. Here we discuss the schemes, plots and dynastic squabbling marking our (attempted) rise to power in medieval Europe.

What is Crusader Kings 2?
Crusader Kings 2 is a grand strategy game developed and published by Paradox Interactive, and set during the Middle Ages. Here, you take control of a member of a dynasty and are tasked with guiding them to greatness... or ignoble defeat.

CK2 is notable both for the rich narrative possibilities provided through backstabbing and political manoeuvring (there is even a Game of Thrones mod) and for the continuing support and expansion of the game; at the time of writing there are 5 major expansions adding new and unique elements to the game, with a sixth recently announced!

The previous discussion thread can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276097). The playground has also completed a succession game running all the way through from 1066 to 1453, which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267622).

If anyone wants anything added to the first post, let me know!

As a first topic, weren't we planning on doing a second succession game at some point?

[Flickerdart]

We were, but at this point we should probably wait for the new DLC to hit.

As an aside, any word on what Sons of Abraham gives the Orthodox Church? Seems like all the good stuff is going to the Catholics and their various heresies.

[pffh]

We were, but at this point we should probably wait for the new DLC to hit.

As an aside, any word on what Sons of Abraham gives the Orthodox Church? Seems like all the good stuff is going to the Catholics and their various heresies.

I thought all heresies were getting something to distinguish them from the orthodoxy.

[Narkis]

As an aside, any word on what Sons of Abraham gives the Orthodox Church? Seems like all the good stuff is going to the Catholics and their various heresies.

We don't know yet. We do know they'll get something, and there are three more dev diaries so there's a good chance one of them will focus on Orthodoxy.

[Leecros]

We were, but at this point we should probably wait for the new DLC to hit.

As an aside, any word on what Sons of Abraham gives the Orthodox Church? Seems like all the good stuff is going to the Catholics and their various heresies.

at the very least, it is implied that there will be more events for all of the Abrahamic Faiths.

[Guancyto]

If Paradox stays true to their word, the Orthodox should at least get their own holy order what with everyone getting one.

[Grif]

If Paradox stays true to their word, the Orthodox should at least get their own holy order what with everyone getting one.

What would they model the holy order after though? As far as I recall, the ERE and other Orthodox nations never subscribed to the whole holy order thing.

[OrcusMcP]

As to what they'll model it on historically, not sure. Game-wise, though, it'll probably be something similar to the Varangians, some kind of dedicated Russian/Georgian/etc soldier of fortune company.

[Flickerdart]

As to what they'll model it on historically, not sure. Game-wise, though, it'll probably be something similar to the Varangians, some kind of dedicated Russian/Georgian/etc soldier of fortune company.

This is likely - they can reuse the "your son decides to take a stint in the Varangian Guard" events that already exist for Norse characters, and just make it a Diplomacy/Intrigue option you can inflict upon your kids instead.

[tonberrian]

So we now know what (at least one of) the Orthodox Holy Order(s) is - the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_the_Holy_Sepulchre).

Other cool holy order stuff. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?731783-Crusader-Kings-II-Sons-of-Abraham-Dev-Diary-2-Holy-Orders-Heresies-and-More)

[Flickerdart]

Apparently, Vatican clergy drop some sick loot.

http://i.imgur.com/62GfAWY.jpg

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oh yeah, that and the time where your ruler enters a wargaming tournament for other enthusiasts of pushing around little wooden pieces that turns out to be peasant kids in a shed.

[Flickerdart]

Oh yeah, that and the time where your ruler enters a wargaming tournament for other enthusiasts of pushing around little wooden pieces that turns out to be peasant kids in a shed.
Heh, yeah, I've gotten those a few times, but never seen the +2 axe before.

Edit: Weird stuff! Just as I've put together my Grand Principality of Scandinavia, I look to the south to see a Tengri Byzantium...a civil war immediately erupts, but the Tengri keep hold of power. Odd that the first Khan in the game isn't Magyar or Mongol, but Greek...

[Rockphed]

So, any new Sons of Abraham news? I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where to look. :smallfrown:

Also, whatever happened to OrcusMcP's "The Scotsman of Venice" playthrough? It was just starting to get interesting.

[Closet_Skeleton]

So, any new Sons of Abraham news? I cannot, for the life of me, figure out where to look. :smallfrown:

Also, whatever happened to OrcusMcP's "The Scotsman of Venice" playthrough? It was just starting to get interesting.

The paradox forums

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?731783-Crusader-Kings-II-Sons-of-Abraham-Dev-Diary-2-Holy-Orders-Heresies-and-More

Should be another developer diary in a day or two.

[OrcusMcP]

Also, whatever happened to OrcusMcP's "The Scotsman of Venice" playthrough? It was just starting to get interesting.

It'll be coming back, I'm so sorry. :smallfrown:

I've been in a massive flux the past 2 months due to getting engaged while also trying to not go broke and lose my job as well as having a big theatre directing gig land in my lap.

EDIT: I'm actually really excited about Sons of Abraham as far as that Let's Play is concerned, though.

[pffh]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?733198-Crusader-Kings-II-Sons-of-Abraham-Dev-Diary-3-Jews-Pilgrims-and-Events

Dev diary time.

[Flickerdart]

There's a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxPibemWjFM) too!

[Rockphed]

Quick Question time! When getting married, is it better to take the money or the prestige?

[pffh]

Quick Question time! When getting married, is it better to take the money or the prestige?

Depends. Early on the money is better 9 times out of 10 since you'll probably be a bit starved for cash. Later the money is still usually better but if you have a new ruler, are getting 300+ prestige AND you don't need the money for anything right now the extra prestige might boost your vassals opinion by one or two which makes it easier to prevent a civil war. But even so you can use the money to bribe a couple of dukes out of the faction so eh.

As time passes and your realm grows and your demense starts being fully built up to your tech level you'll often find yourself with a fair amount of excess money so when that happens I tend to take the prestige unless it's 500+ gold.

[tonberrian]

The amount of gold you recieve is proportional to your displayed monthly income. Which includes inheritences. So if, for instance, you have just inherited a wealthy patrician family, you've got a few weeks where you can land yourself a 5000+ gold dowry if you act fast.

[Flickerdart]

Spare sons are a great way to raise some quick funds if you pick it over Prestige. Have lots of kids, make lots of money!

Also, I find it interesting that in the new DLC, both Jews and holy orders will be available to loan you money, plus you can now badger the Pope for some. Seems like they really want to make big spending accessible to people, probably to make it easier to hire mercenaries and change the outcome of wars that would otherwise be obvious.

[pffh]

Spare sons are a great way to raise some quick funds if you pick it over Prestige. Have lots of kids, make lots of money!

Also, I find it interesting that in the new DLC, both Jews and holy orders will be available to loan you money, plus you can now badger the Pope for some. Seems like they really want to make big spending accessible to people, probably to make it easier to hire mercenaries and change the outcome of wars that would otherwise be obvious.

They are also reducing your normal income so it's harder to become very wealthy.

[Flickerdart]

They are also reducing your normal income so it's harder to become very wealthy.
Are they? Curious. I guess everyone's going to want a pet Merchant Republic handy now.

[Closet_Skeleton]

All Paradox games (apart from Vicky2 and maybe Hearts of Iron) have bad economic progression so that you either have too much money and no use for it or not enough to build things as they become available.

[IthilanorStPete]

Are they? Curious. I guess everyone's going to want a pet Merchant Republic handy now.

You mean they didn't before? I've always made a point of having at least one Republic as a vassal to help my income.

[Rockphed]

You mean they didn't before? I've always made a point of having at least one Republic as a vassal to help my income.

Why have more than 1?

[Flickerdart]

So, my Norse Principality is having some issues - vassals keep rising up even though the Patrician families themselves aren't. Should I hand out a Serene Republic to each one and sweep the troublesome Jarls under the carpet?

[IthilanorStPete]

Why have more than 1?

I like having lots of spare cash. :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

As long as you keep the republics geographically separate so that they don't start squabbling for trade zone control, having multiples is fine.

[AgentPaper]

I think I mentioned my Character Generator (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?701863-TOOL-Character-Generator) tool before, but I wanted to mention it again since I've just recently started updating it again. Specifically, it now has a full user interface, allowing you to click and drag around characters in the timeline, set their stats, traits, and so on, and visually see their relationships.

Most recently, I added the feature of being able to import and export directly from the game's character files, allowing you to easily create, load, and save them in a much nicer interface instead of doing everything manually.

I'm still working on some features, but it's come a long way since the last time I plugged it and hasn't gotten a lot of attention, so give it another look if you're into the modding scene.

[Sanguine]

Interesting...I shall find that very useful in my own modding endeavors.

[Flickerdart]

Curses! It seems that you can't transfer vassalage of dukes, even to a king who owns them de jure.

[IthilanorStPete]

Curses! It seems that you can't transfer vassalage of dukes, even to a king who owns them de jure.

You should be able to do that. Check to see if the duke or king is involved in any intra-realm wars, that might be the problem.

[Flickerdart]

You should be able to do that. Check to see if the duke or king is involved in any intra-realm wars, that might be the problem.
You can't transfer vassals to a King at war? Weird.

I solved my insurgent problem by murdering every dissident, though.

[Guancyto]

I solved my insurgent problem by murdering every dissident, though.

Spoken like a true Norseman.

[IthilanorStPete]

You can't transfer vassals to a King at war? Weird.

I know you can't when the vassals are the ones at war with the king in question. :smalltongue: Doing so when your entire country is at war is fine.

[Flickerdart]

I know you can't when the vassals are the ones at war with the king in question. :smalltongue: Doing so when your entire country is at war is fine.
The "transfer vassalage" screen literally listed no duke-level vassals except the Warchief of Jomsvikings. I don't think the patrician was at war with every single Jarl in the realm.

[Guancyto]

Wait, did you murder every dissident by single combat or by knives in the back?

This is very important.

[pffh]

The "transfer vassalage" screen literally listed no duke-level vassals except the Warchief of Jomsvikings. I don't think the patrician was at war with every single Jarl in the realm.

I think you can't transfer the duke if the duke OR anyone in the de jure duchy is at war over any part of the de jure duchy.

[Flickerdart]

I think you can't transfer the duke if the duke OR anyone in the de jure duchy is at war over any part of the de jure duchy.
I certainly hope that there aren't that many wars in my realm.


Wait, did you murder every dissident by single combat or by knives in the back?

This is very important.
They weren't knives so much as poop explosions, no.

But they really should have included duels in Old Gods. I mean, vassals constantly ask me for permission to duel, why can't I indulge myself?

[Guancyto]

They did! They're quite rare (I think they require a captial-R Rival?), but there are holmgång events for the norse.

The only time I got the opportunity, I made the mistake of forgetting that my ruler was Craven. The prestige loss from running away from the duel was... considerable.

[Flickerdart]

They did! They're quite rare (I think they require a captial-R Rival?), but there are holmgång events for the norse.
Interesting. I've seen the "is Rival" opinion modifier a few times, but I'm never sure of how to get it, or what it does aside from the disapproval.

[Guancyto]

I think it requires being educated in the same court, and is a childhood event. There's a decision as a child ruler where you meet another kid and either decide to wreak havoc together (which gets you a friend) or blame them for your misdeeds (which makes them a rival).

That's one way to get it, anyway, if there are others I don't know them.

(I've played a fair number of kid rulers. Byzantine/Roman Emperors always seem to have lousy non BttP sons unworthy of the Despot title and die early, leaving their 1-year-olds in charge...)

[pffh]

Members of rival merchant families in republics will also duel each other fairly frequently.

[IthilanorStPete]

The "transfer vassalage" screen literally listed no duke-level vassals except the Warchief of Jomsvikings. I don't think the patrician was at war with every single Jarl in the realm.

Well, they have to be de jure vassals of the king as well.

[Flickerdart]

Well, they have to be de jure vassals of the ing as well.
Really? But the Jomsvikings are in Wolgast, and I can still give them to the King of Norway...

[pffh]

Ah wait patrician yeah you are out of luck there. Can't transfer patricians unless they are the head of the republic and the king dude asks for them. Also since the jomsvikings are a titular title they can be transferred freely.

[Flickerdart]

Ah wait patrician yeah you are out of luck there. Can't transfer patricians unless they are the head of the republic and the king dude asks for them. Also since the jomsvikings are a titular title they can be transferred freely.
No no I want to transfer dukes to a king-level patrician, because they can't revolt and I'm tired of dealing with rebel dukes.

[IthilanorStPete]

No no I want to transfer dukes to a king-level patrician, because they can't revolt and I'm tired of dealing with rebel dukes.

Oh, it's a king-level patrician. That's probably the problem; as a titular title, I don't think you can transfer non-titular vassals to them.

[Flickerdart]

Oh, it's a king-level patrician. That's probably the problem; as a titular title, I don't think you can transfer non-titular vassals to them.
Republics aren't titular, are they? I mean, the Kingdom of Norway doesn't become titular just because it's now a Most Serene Republic.

Incidentally, why are patrician titles weird up north? Venice gets Doge and Serene Doge and so forth and we're dealing with lame Lord Mayors.

[Sanguine]

Because historically Doge was an Italian title, one which is etymologically descended from a Roman title. So, aside from the Byzantines for obvious reasons, people who speak non-Romance languages wouldn't use such a title. Or at least I assume that is the reason for the divide.

[pffh]

Do you know what time it is? Dev diary time (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?734411-Crusader-Kings-II-Sons-of-Abraham-Dev-Diary-4-Patch-2.0). The last one before the DLC release on monday.

[Farix]

Man you know a game is starting to mess with your morals when you see "women can now die in childbirth" and think 'about time.'

[IthilanorStPete]

Man you know a game is starting to mess with your morals when you see "women can now die in childbirth" and think 'about time.'

That was my reaction too. This game is rather odd sometimes. :smalltongue:

[Closet_Skeleton]

Because historically Doge was an Italian title, one which is etymologically descended from a Roman title.

Using the term 'historically' and 'Italian' is problematic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risorgimento).

Venice was not necessarily Italy until much later.


So, aside from the Byzantines for obvious reasons, people who speak non-Romance languages wouldn't use such a title.

English isn't a Romance language. Basque uses it as well.

You can mod German republics to use Burgomaster instead, that's a bit less boring.

[Sanguine]

Using the term 'historically' and 'Italian' is problematic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risorgimento).

Venice was not necessarily Italy until much later.

I will concede the point that my wording was rather poor.




English isn't a Romance language. Basque uses it as well.

Huh, I thought the English used the Lord Mayor title. Forgot about the Basque completely though.

[Artanis]

English isn't a Romance language.
This is true, but English does use a hell of a lot of Latin words. Something like 2/3 of the words in English are based in Latin, it's just that they're generally the bigger, less-used words.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Huh, I thought the English used the Lord Mayor title. Forgot about the Basque completely though.

English uses duke while other Germanic languages don't, that was what I meant. Whether or not Duke and Doge are actually different in Italian is confusing. Doge doesn't even appear to be the Ligurian or the Venetian spelling, they both appear to use something closer to the latin Dux.

Lord Mayor makes sense in England since its an English title.

[pffh]

DLC time. Just started my first ironman game as the republic of Amalfi with the goal of restoring the Roman Republic.

[Flickerdart]

DLC time. Just started my first ironman game as the republic of Amalfi with the goal of restoring the Roman Republic.
Don't you have to be Orthodox to do that? Or do you mean just straight up get the land, without the title?

[pffh]

Don't you have to be Orthodox to do that? Or do you mean just straight up get the land, without the title?

Already taken care of by accident. The second person to inherit was Orthodox so I didn't have to bother with education or convert to lieges religion. So far I've sworn fealty to the Basileus and the Kingdom of Sicily is mine. My next goal is moving into Greece to gain enough electoral titles to maintain laws in my favour.

[OrcusMcP]

While there is a pretty serious issue regarding how much piety and therefore how much moral authority the Pope generates, Sons of Abraham makes playing Catholics fun again.

I just ran into an event chain with major The Omen references resulting in a genius Demon Child. Hell yeah!

I know I need to be updating my LP, shut up!

[Guancyto]

I was messing around to look at people's holy orders, events and mechanics, and I got this:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903265313403472300/5EA7924B535647C44EE5FA608DC548DAA563E1AA/
Yes, that is 1.6 million Mongols. Yes, it's a bug. Yes, it's awesome.

[Flickerdart]

I'm sad that they didn't do a DLC sale. Kind of wanted to pick up Aztec Invasion.

[Starsign]

I'm sad that they didn't do a DLC sale. Kind of wanted to pick up Aztec Invasion.

Same here. I have no DLC yet and I really want to get The Old Gods.

[Flickerdart]

Same here. I have no DLC yet and I really want to get The Old Gods.
Winter is coming, which means massive Steam sales. Paradox usually hits CK2 stuff with 50% to 75% off, so you should be happily swarmed with vikings in about a month.

[Grif]

Those who played the newest DLC, could you guys elaborate what the DLC exactly changes for Catholic rulers? (whether for good or worse) I'm a little hazy on the details.

[OrcusMcP]

Those who played the newest DLC, could you guys elaborate what the DLC exactly changes for Catholic rulers? (whether for good or worse) I'm a little hazy on the details.

-The Papacy now has a College of Cardinals to elect the new Popes, and if you can get your bishops into the College and eventually the Big Chair you can ask the Pope for favours(money, divorces, crusades, invasions) that you couldn't before.
-You can borrow money from Jews and Holy Orders(once they are there), people can take the vows or be forced to take the vows and join the Orders.
-You can go on pilgrimages much like how Muslims go on the Hajj.
-LOTS AND LOTS OF NEW EVENTS.
-Money gain is much slower, and being in the red is much harsher so as to make borrowing something you'll actually have to do.
EDIT: Also, Crusades(and jihads, etc) and Holy Orders are much more dynamic in their initial happening, rather than hard coded dates.

There are a couple of kinks to sort out as there always are.

I actually saw the AI King of France set up an Anti-Pope. I've never seen the AI do that ever. That was worth it, to me.

[Flickerdart]

Has anyone had trouble with activating Ironman mode? The button is greyed out for me, even when I unload the ruler designer (and I don't use mods).

I'm also kind of disappointed with the Khazar Jews. All you get is Passover (100 piety and prestige for 15gp seems kind of OP honestly) and really lazy "restore country" and "restore religion" things that Zoroastrians and Byzantines have had for ages now, which are also preposterously overpriced.

They really did shake up religion though - Iconoclasty just killed Orthodoxy (but only in Byzantium, leaving Bulgaria and Georgia at my mercy) and one of the Karlings got himself an antipope. There are also a lot of Manicheans popping up.

[pffh]

There are also a whole bunch of special events for the jews just like the other abrahamic faiths got.

[Flickerdart]

I haven't gotten any events and my first ruler is nearly dead already.

[Grif]

-The Papacy now has a College of Cardinals to elect the new Popes, and if you can get your bishops into the College and eventually the Big Chair you can ask the Pope for favours(money, divorces, crusades, invasions) that you couldn't before.
-You can borrow money from Jews and Holy Orders(once they are there), people can take the vows or be forced to take the vows and join the Orders.
-You can go on pilgrimages much like how Muslims go on the Hajj.
-LOTS AND LOTS OF NEW EVENTS.
-Money gain is much slower, and being in the red is much harsher so as to make borrowing something you'll actually have to do.
EDIT: Also, Crusades(and jihads, etc) and Holy Orders are much more dynamic in their initial happening, rather than hard coded dates.

There are a couple of kinks to sort out as there always are.

I actually saw the AI King of France set up an Anti-Pope. I've never seen the AI do that ever. That was worth it, to me.

Sounds good. Will be saving up for this DLC now. :smallbiggrin:

[Farix]

Ironman works fine for me but I just can't play it. It autosaves on a monthly basis so it's a constant stream of momentary pauses if you're playing a top speed. If they let it autosave on an annual or five year basis it would absolutely be worth it and while I understand why it's monthly saves the constant hitches to gameplay just aren't worth it.



On a side note: Antipopes everywhere.

[OrcusMcP]

I had anti-popes before Sons of Abraham made it cool. /hipster

The Omen event chain is so friggin amazing. Holy crap. When your demon spawn grows up, they immediately gain Genius, Possessed, Impaler, Voice of Satan, all kinds of sins, and they are likely to kill EVERYBODY.

[Flickerdart]

I had anti-popes before Sons of Abraham made it cool. /hipster

The Omen event chain is so friggin amazing. Holy crap. When your demon spawn grows up, they immediately gain Genius, Possessed, Impaler, Voice of Satan, all kinds of sins, and they are likely to kill EVERYBODY.

That sounds awesome. Is there a way to trigger event chains with console commands?

[Farix]

That sounds awesome. Is there a way to trigger event chains with console commands?

Yup, its just 'event #'

Did a search for the specific ID # of the Omen chain but couldn't find anything. Maybe 10101 but no guarantee (For reference on ID #'s (http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Cheats)).

[OrcusMcP]

Yup, its just 'event #'

Did a search for the specific ID # of the Omen chain but couldn't find anything. Maybe 10101 but no guarantee (For reference on ID #'s (http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Cheats)).

I think it's 30000 or something close to it, someone on the Paradox forums pointed it out.

[Hyena]

There is only one single thing that I want or can say about this so called "Sons of Abraham" DLC.
SGNIHT GNIVIL LLA EMUSNOC LIWW TEHPORP SIH REFICUL LIAH

[OrcusMcP]

There is only one single thing that I want or can say about this so called "Sons of Abraham" DLC.
SGNIHT GNIVIL LLA EMUSNOC LIWW TEHPORP SIH REFICUL LIAH

IA! IA! ANGRA MAINYU FTAGHN!

IT'S ALL FOR YOU!!!!

[Rockphed]

So, how about them wives dying in childbirth and having sickly babies?

[Hyena]

Have seen plenty of sick babies, but as much of half of them recovers. Haven't seen a single death by childbirth yet.

[Flickerdart]

I've seen some childbirth deaths (only in the events, never to my own wife) but no sickly babies yet.

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.

[Hyena]

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.
Meh, gonna use it anyway.

What annoys me severely is one theocracy/republic permitted -I want my norse papal states with landed godi back!

[IthilanorStPete]

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.

That's fair; Elective was pretty broken as it was.

[Rockphed]

I've seen some childbirth deaths (only in the events, never to my own wife) but no sickly babies yet.

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.

So now elective kings can hold 1 duchy without penalty? Or can they only hold the kingdom?

[Flickerdart]

I kind of want to play a 1066 start now and see what happens with the HRE, since historically the same family basically stayed in power the whole time.

[Grif]

I kind of want to play a 1066 start now and see what happens with the HRE, since historically the same family basically stayed in power the whole time.

Well, they didn't stay with the Salians. :smalltongue: (Or the Hohenstaufen, for that matter.) The whole stay in the family thing only happened after the Habsburg got their grubby hands on the throne.

[Flickerdart]

Are there any Habsburgs in CK2?

[Guancyto]

The Why You Should Play As Any Particular Character thread locates one at the Stamford Bridge start date.

Werner von Habsburg, Count of Aargau.

[Rockphed]

The Why You Should Play As Any Particular Character thread locates one at the Stamford Bridge start date.

Werner von Habsburg, Count of Aargau.

Someone should play as him, rise to the Holy Roman Emperor, and then breed the most inbred ruler of all time. OF ALL TIME!

[Grif]

Someone should play as him, rise to the Holy Roman Emperor, and then breed the most inbred ruler of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Bonus points if you manage to acquire the Duchy of Austria and expand it to its historical borders in 1453. (or 1444 if you're going for EU IV).

[Guancyto]

Fired him up for the lulz.

I dunno about acquiring Austria (that's an exceedingly small de jure, no way the Duke of Austria could ever be powerful), but I did happen to buy the Duchy of Upper Burgundy off the Kaiser. I guess he went into the red a bit buying mercenaries putting down all those Italian revolts, and the Cathar revolts, and the Lollard revolts, and the...

Have a plan in place to acquire Hungary, though. It just requires a truly ridiculous amount of murder.

[Leecros]

Have a plan in place to acquire Hungary, though. It just requires a truly ridiculous amount of murder.

Sounds like a good plan to me.:smallsmile:

[Grif]

Fired him up for the lulz.

I dunno about acquiring Austria (that's an exceedingly small de jure, no way the Duke of Austria could ever be powerful), but I did happen to buy the Duchy of Upper Burgundy off the Kaiser. I guess he went into the red a bit buying mercenaries putting down all those Italian revolts, and the Cathar revolts, and the Lollard revolts, and the...

Have a plan in place to acquire Hungary, though. It just requires a truly ridiculous amount of murder.

Nothing against adding the non de jure territories to Austria. It should be your primary title at all times. :smallbiggrin:

[Sanguine]

Nothing against adding the non de jure territories to Austria. It should be your primary title at all times. :smallbiggrin:

The problem with that is that if you inherit Hungary, Austria can no longer be your primary title.

[pffh]

You could rename Hungary to Austro-Hungary if you have the customization dlc (or edit the save file).

[IthilanorStPete]

The problem with that is that if you inherit Hungary, Austria can no longer be your primary title.

No need to go after Hungary, that can wait until EU4. Historically, Hungary was independent for quite a while, then got occupied by the Ottomans, then became part of the Hapsburg empire.

[Closet_Skeleton]

No need to go after Hungary, that can wait until EU4. Historically, Hungary was independent for quite a while, then got occupied by the Ottomans, then became part of the Hapsburg empire.

Two Habsburgs ruled Hungary before then, starting with Albert of Hungary (1438-9) and his very short rule rule and then his son Ladislaus Posthumous.

[Rockphed]

So get one of your younger sons to inherit it. You must remain true to the goal of horrible inbreeding!

[Elemental]

Have a plan in place to acquire Hungary, though. It just requires a truly ridiculous amount of murder.

I've had a few plans like that. Unfortunately, my kings have never had the good fortune to inherit directly and so have had to make do with more indirect methods of "claiming inheritances".
Though I was indeed fortunate that my current King, may he live forever but not really because I want to get rid of his not-so-holiness Agapetus II and his possible successors and said plan requires the King to die shortly after, inherited claims on half of Scotland when his mother died. The job still required a half dozen people to die.

But even so, my imperialist ambitions have slowed considerably. Primarily because my collected kingdoms are getting too big and too spread out and partly because the latest patch has changed a few things and I'm still adjusting. Mostly to the reduced levies and taxes I've been getting and the greater penalties for bankruptcy.


In any case... Does anyone here have any good suggestions as to how I can get claims quickly? Most of my territory was gained by crusade and holy war, and I appear to have hit a road block despite a relatively easy take over of France. Or is this to be expected with dealing with members of your own religion?
I ask primarily because I kind of expected England to be easy because there is no England and hasn't been for centuries, but I'm stuck in Essex and Bedford. Maybe I should play matchmaker with my vassals/cousins and the Anglo-Saxon Earls and Dukes?

[tyckspoon]

In any case... Does anyone here have any good suggestions as to how I can get claims quickly? Most of my territory was gained by crusade and holy war, and I appear to have hit a road block despite a relatively easy take over of France. Or is this to be expected with dealing with members of your own religion?


Find people who have claims on the counties/duchies you want to take over, invite them to your court, make them a landed vassal (I think you can get away with as small as a Barony for this), and then push their claim. As long as you're winning them a lower-level title than the highest you hold (ie, if you're a King, you can win a Duchy this way.. although it often makes for a bit of an uppity vassal) then they'll take over the target title as your vassal, so it joins your realm.

It does get a lot harder to expand in ways that gives you the titles directly to hold or distribute as you wish. It's not too hard to expand via vassal claims if you're not overly picky about who becomes your vassal. (And if they do turn out to be too troublesome, you can always kill them and hope their heir is more compliant. Or push them into open rebellion, crush them, enjoy an opinion boost with the *rest* of your vassals for putting down a rebellion, and get a tyranny-free revocation of one of their titles to hand out to somebody more grateful.)

[snoopy13a]

I've seen some childbirth deaths (only in the events, never to my own wife) but no sickly babies yet.

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.

I've had a few sickly babies. And I've had monks (i.e., family members I've forced to take the vows) run off and get married :smalleek: . No respect for the vows . . .

[Selrahc]

Also, looks like Elective Succession was heavily nerfed - a -15 penalty to opinion of every elector per elector title beyond the first is pretty heavy stuff.

I must confess, I try and limit my Duke+ titles to the minimum possible already, so this doesn't seem like a particularly good nerf to the player. Bet it kicks AI electoral realms in the teeth a bit though...

[Starsign]

I must confess, I try and limit my Duke+ titles to the minimum possible already, so this doesn't seem like a particularly good nerf to the player. Bet it kicks AI electoral realms in the teeth a bit though...

That is very nice as the HRE starts out in Elective. In my vanilla 1.111 game, it just refused to fall apart on it's own. Even after a few assassinations and a switch to Gavelkind, it still flourished. And then the Emperor of Brittania inherited it somehow and now there's a massive Great Britain blob in Europe.

Has there been any changes in culture over at the HRE? I remember practically the entire empire being all of German culture which helped it's stability.

[Farix]

You people are luckier than me apparently, lost a couple wives to childbirth and a couple to typhus/pneumonia on the same day as childbirth (registered as death by disease). Kids keep getting sick to but so far no deaths.

[Artanis]

Wanna see something hilarious? Check the causes of death on all the old historical characters (e.g. the Roman Emperors).

[Sanguine]

Wanna see something hilarious? Check the causes of death on all the old historical characters (e.g. the Roman Emperors).

They all seem to have died of natural causes. What exactly am I supposed to find hilarious?

[Artanis]

They all seem to have died of natural causes. What exactly am I supposed to find hilarious?
They all said "Died in childbirth" for me.

[Flickerdart]

I must confess, I try and limit my Duke+ titles to the minimum possible already, so this doesn't seem like a particularly good nerf to the player. Bet it kicks AI electoral realms in the teeth a bit though...
It mostly screws up new Empires - when you have to have two Kingdom titles to create one (and probably also two Duchy titles, because why not) you're suddenly slapped with a -45 opinion penalty when the Empire is created, even though you had 0 penalty before.


Wanna see something hilarious? Check the causes of death on all the old historical characters (e.g. the Roman Emperors).
Who's descended from the Emperors?

[IthilanorStPete]

Who's descended from the Emperors?

Look at the history for the Byzantine Empire.

[Elemental]

Find people who have claims on the counties/duchies you want to take over, invite them to your court, make them a landed vassal (I think you can get away with as small as a Barony for this), and then push their claim. As long as you're winning them a lower-level title than the highest you hold (ie, if you're a King, you can win a Duchy this way.. although it often makes for a bit of an uppity vassal) then they'll take over the target title as your vassal, so it joins your realm.

It does get a lot harder to expand in ways that gives you the titles directly to hold or distribute as you wish. It's not too hard to expand via vassal claims if you're not overly picky about who becomes your vassal. (And if they do turn out to be too troublesome, you can always kill them and hope their heir is more compliant. Or push them into open rebellion, crush them, enjoy an opinion boost with the *rest* of your vassals for putting down a rebellion, and get a tyranny-free revocation of one of their titles to hand out to somebody more grateful.)

Well, I'm not too picky about who my vassals are, hence the Irish duke of Toledo and the half of the French aristocracy who remained in place after my totally "legal" annexation. So I'm more than willing to press the claims of whomever has them, so I could try another round of invitations. The difficulty here is in acquiring the baronies to give them. But then, I suppose I could just build new castles when I next have sufficient funds available. Shame the economy's taken a down turn since the patch and I've had to rely on mercenaries at the same time.

And widespread murder? Why didn't I think of that earlier! Should get rid of that damnable independence faction in a jiffy, and hopefully with less effort than warfare. Fortunately, the King is old so should not have to weather the potential backlash for long.

[Artanis]

Well, I'm not too picky about who my vassals are, hence the Irish duke of Toledo and the half of the French aristocracy who remained in place after my totally "legal" annexation. So I'm more than willing to press the claims of whomever has them, so I could try another round of invitations. The difficulty here is in acquiring the baronies to give them. But then, I suppose I could just build new castles when I next have sufficient funds available. Shame the economy's taken a down turn since the patch and I've had to rely on mercenaries at the same time.

And widespread murder? Why didn't I think of that earlier! Should get rid of that damnable independence faction in a jiffy, and hopefully with less effort than warfare. Fortunately, the King is old so should not have to weather the potential backlash for long.
Just use the two problems to fix each other: let the Faction rebel, then give their shattered, corpse-filled castles to invitees with useful claims that you want to press.

[tyckspoon]

Fortunately, the King is old so should not have to weather the potential backlash for long.

If you're expecting to change rulers soon anyway you could just go on a revocation spree to free up the landed titles you need. If you need to force the change after that, send your aged king to lead war parties and take a direct hand in hunts until somebody maces him in the head or a boar maims him.

[Elemental]

Damn King won't die! I've racked up a truly insane amount of tyranny, no one likes me, the realm is always on the brink of civil wars I solve solely through assassination and execution, I get almost no troops and money, and now the Byzantines have invaded on behalf of my second son's claim on the Kingdom of Syria.
Perhaps I shouldn't have married the Queen of Armenia... Oh, and I'll lose France on the succession too. And I only just noticed because my two eldest sons look almost identical. Fortunately, all my personal holdings are in kingdoms with primogeniture succession, so that's no issue.

Also, Cathars, Lollards and Waldensians! Oh my!
Any significant benefit in becoming a heretic? Even though I'm currently rather weak, I used to be the equal of any other realm, and will be again if the succession isn't a disaster.

[Grif]

Any significant benefit in becoming a heretic? Even though I'm currently rather weak, I used to be the equal of any other realm, and will be again if the succession isn't a disaster.

Free (holy) wars on other fellow heretics. :smalltongue:

[Artanis]

Does anybody know where I can find a list of what each Heresy brings? Like I know that Cathars can have female priests, but I can't find much in the way of specifics beyond that.


Also, whoever said that CKII warps your sensibilities was right. It freaked me out when I realized that I had just thought, "Yes! I'm depressed! Now I can die whenever I want!"

[Hyena]

Cathars have absolute general equality, by which I mean women can lead armies, women can be priests and absolute cognatic law is unlocked. Fraticelli and iconoclast now can create their religious heads.
That's pretty much it.

[snoopy13a]

Damn King won't die! I've racked up a truly insane amount of tyranny, no one likes me, the realm is always on the brink of civil wars I solve solely through assassination and execution, I get almost no troops and money, and now the Byzantines have invaded on behalf of my second son's claim on the Kingdom of Syria.


You could always try making the courtier that hates you the most spymaster. Of course, that might backfire if you're trying to suppress factions and the like.

As a side note, there's now an event where a Joan of Arc-esque woman comes to your kingdom. So, right now, my Marshall is a Cathar woman with 33 martial!

And a quick question about heresies. You can only attack heresies of your own religion, right? For example, a Catholic can attack Lollards and Cathars but not Monothelites or Nestorians?

[Elemental]

Free (holy) wars on other fellow heretics. :smalltongue:

If that extends to the parent religion, then I'm all for it.



Cathars have absolute general equality, by which I mean women can lead armies, women can be priests and absolute cognatic law is unlocked. Fraticelli and iconoclast now can create their religious heads.
That's pretty much it.

That sounds great actually. I knew there was a reason I invited all those Cathars to my court.



Also, whoever said that CKII warps your sensibilities was right. It freaked me out when I realized that I had just thought, "Yes! I'm depressed! Now I can die whenever I want!"

It is terrible. And I can't help wishing it would happen. But no, the King remains a decent individual. He's only just lost his kind trait, but I suspect that's unrelated.



You could always try making the courtier that hates you the most spymaster. Of course, that might backfire if you're trying to suppress factions and the like.

Hates me the most? Now, that would be a difficult decision to make. I'm surprised no one tried to kill the King yet. I'd say they all fear him too much, but I doubt the game takes that into account.
As for factions, the main one I need to worry about is the Independence faction. The various "random relation/Frenchwoman" for "random kingdom/France" factions I solve by arresting the person in question as soon as I'm presented with an ultimatum. They'll still go to war with me, even if that person is in prison and at my mercy. Strangely, they haven't caught on to that yet and the castle graveyard is filling up with French princesses and various cousins. Kinslayer or not, it makes no difference with the tyranny I've committed thus far.

[Talderas]

And a quick question about heresies. You can only attack heresies of your own religion, right? For example, a Catholic can attack Lollards and Cathars but not Monothelites or Nestorians?

There's 3 levels, essentially, to religion.

You have the religion group, which is broken down into Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Zoastrian, and Jewish.

Then you have the specific religion. I'm not going to break down the Pagan. Christian is Catholic, Orthodox, and Miaphysite. Muslim is Shia and Sunni. The other two groups have only one religion.

Each non-pagan religion (and reformed pagans) have their own heresies.

Christians
Catholic : Cathar, Fraticelli, Waldensian, Lollard
Miaphysite : Monophysite
Orthodox : Bogomilist, Nestorian, Monothelite, Iconoclast

Muslims
Sunni : Zikri, Yazidi, Ibadi
Shia: Bektashi, Druze, Hurufi

Zoroastrian
Zoroastrian : Mazdaki, Manichaean

Jewish
Judaism : Samaritianism, Karaite

If you are of the parent religion then valid Holy War targets are other religious groups and heresies of your religion. So Catholics may not attack Orthodox or their heresies. The exception to this is that Sunni Muslims can conduct Holy Wars against Shia Muslims.

If you are a heresy, you may Holy War your parent religion, other heresies of your parent religion, or other religious groups.

[Artanis]

Ugh, is there any way to make a bugged-out Grand Tournament end? The weekly "random noble has been maimed/killed/inconvenienced" popups are getting annoying.

[AgentPaper]

Ugh, is there any way to make a bugged-out Grand Tournament end? The weekly "random noble has been maimed/killed/inconvenienced" popups are getting annoying.

Not sure. You could try and look up the event ID of the event that is supposed to fire at the end, and then use the console to manually fire that event. That should clear whatever flag is causing so much loss of life and limb.

[JeminiZero]

IIRC, the Grant Tournament is cancelled if war is started...

[Artanis]

Not sure. You could try and look up the event ID of the event that is supposed to fire at the end, and then use the console to manually fire that event. That should clear whatever flag is causing so much loss of life and limb.
Thanks, I'll look into that.


IIRC, the Grant Tournament is cancelled if war is started...
The tournament ended, but it bugged out and the participants decided to stick around and keep stabbing each other anyways.

[Guancyto]

The exception to this is that Sunni Muslims can conduct Holy Wars against Shia Muslims.

Pagans can Holy War the same religion group as well. It's really just the Christians who get along, or at least have to pretend they get along for long enough to arrange the manure explosions.

[Artanis]

Looks like using the console to call even 70002 worked. Now to break out the shovels and get all the corpses out of the foyer...

[Talderas]

The tournament ended, but it bugged out and the participants decided to stick around and keep stabbing each other anyways.

I fail to see the problem. If your vassals want to stick around and stab each other to death.... isn't this a good thing? It just saves you the task of offing them later. Do you have vassals that you are particularly attached do that you don't want to see die?

[pffh]

I fail to see the problem. If your vassals want to stick around and stab each other to death.... isn't this a good thing? It just saves you the task of offing them later. Do you have vassals that you are particularly attached do that you don't want to see die?

It also kills your family. I remember reading a lets play that had that bug and every few years or so the realm had been completely purged.

[Artanis]

I fail to see the problem. If your vassals want to stick around and stab each other to death.... isn't this a good thing? It just saves you the task of offing them later. Do you have vassals that you are particularly attached do that you don't want to see die?
Out of ~30 popups I think I wound up with two vassals hurt and one dead, with all the rest being random courtiers, only a couple of which were even mine. Even if I'd wanted vassals dead, it wasn't worth putting up with "a useless noble from the court of the Baron of Nowheresville needs a bandaid" popups every few days.

[Flickerdart]

Aha! Now that the hotfix patch is out, I know what's wrong. I modified the game file that determines de jure territories ages ago, to allow Perm to form Russia. Now it won't let me do Ironman because the file isn't correct. Can someone dump the text for what that file should be?

[Sanguine]

Aha! Now that the hotfix patch is out, I know what's wrong. I modified the game file that determines de jure territories ages ago, to allow Perm to form Russia. Now it won't let me do Ironman because the file isn't correct. Can someone dump the text for what that file should be?

Is a fresh install an option? Because if you've been modifying the game files directly that's what I would suggest; especially since you seem to have forgotten about this change until now. That way you know you'll have gotten everything. In the future you should probably make any changes you may want in the form of mods. That way you can avoid this issue completely.

Also it seems Perm can form Russia, it even has a localized name. The devs must have changed it since your modifications.

[Flickerdart]

Is a fresh install an option? Because if you've been modifying the game files directly that's what I would suggest; especially since you seem to have forgotten about this change until now. That way you know you'll have gotten everything. In the future you should probably make any changes you may want in the form of mods. That way you can avoid this issue completely.

Also it seems Perm can form Russia, it even has a localized name. The devs must have changed it since your modifications.
Yeah, they changed it literally days after I altered that file. It's the only one I changed, though, so fixing it should bring Ironman up.

[Sanguine]

It's landed_titles.txt you altered right? Here's the section for the Empire of Russia (and all lower titles).


e_russia = {
color={ 147 164 104 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 547 # Kiev

culture = russian

allow = {
hidden_tooltip = {
OR = {
ai = no
culture_group = north_germanic
culture_group = east_slavic
culture_group = finno_ugric
}
}
}

finnish = Suomi
lappish = Suomi
ugricbaltic = Suomi
komi = Suomi
samoyed = Suomi
mordvin = Suomi

k_rus = {
color={ 87 144 50 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 414 # Novgorod

slavic_pagan_reformed = 500 # Crusade target weight
finnish_pagan_reformed = 300 # Crusade target weight
baltic_pagan_reformed = 100 # Crusade target weight

norse = Garðariki

culture = russian

allow = {
hidden_tooltip = {
OR = {
ai = no
culture_group = north_germanic
culture_group = east_slavic
culture_group = finno_ugric
}
}
}

d_beloozero = {
color={ 131 146 86 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 408 # Beloozero
finnish = "Chud"
samoyed = "Chud"
mordvin = "Chud"
lappish = "Chud"
komi = "Chud"

c_beloozero = {
color={ 133 148 90 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_belozersk = {
}
b_kirillobelozersky = {
}
b_fedosyevo = {
}
b_babayevo = {
}
b_kinilov = {
}
b_kaduy = {
}
b_khoklovo = {
}
b_glushkovo = {
}
}
c_zaozerye = {
color={ 134 150 90 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_zarechnaya = {
}
b_nazankha = {
}
b_kharovsk = {
}
b_afoninskaya = {
}
b_borisovskaya = {
}
b_konechnaya = {
}
b_pashuchikha = {
}
b_bolshaya = {
}
}
c_chud = {
color={ 138 154 94 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_totma = {
}
b_krbor = {
}
b_kamchuga = {
}
b_chunlovka = {
}
b_zalese = {
}
b_krutayaosyp = {
}
b_veldvor = {
}
b_zaytsevo = {
}
}
c_vologda = {
color={ 141 158 98 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_vologda = {
}
b_kadnikovskaya = {
}
b_sokol = {
}
b_uste = {
}
b_bolshayamurga = {
}
b_dvinitsa = {
}
b_motyn = {
}
b_staroye = {
}
}
}
d_novgorod = {
color={ 107 164 64 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 414 # Novgorod

swedish = "Holmgård"
norse = "Holmgarðr"
danish = "Holmgård"
norwegian = "Holmgård"

pagan_coa = {
template = 0
layer = {
texture = 2
texture_internal = 4
emblem = 0
color = 0
color = 0
color = 0
}
religion = "norse_pagan"
}

c_bezhetsky_verh = { # Ladoga
color={ 144 161 101 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

finnish = "Nevajärvi"

b_bezhetsk = { # Staraya Ladoga
swedish = "Aldeigjuborg"
norse = "Aldeigjuborg"
danish = "Aldeigjuborg"
norwegian = "Aldeigjuborg"
finnish = "Alodejoki"
}
b_spasnakholmu = {
swedish = "Spångsholm"
norse = "Spångsholmr"
danish = "Spångsholm"
norwegian = "Spngsholm"
}
b_sonkovo = { # Gorodishche
swedish = "Alaborg"
norse = "Alaborg"
danish = "Alaborg"
norwegian = "Alaborg"
}
b_kyasovagora = { # Duboviki
}
b_maksatikha = {
}
b_molokovo = { # Stolbova
}
b_rameshki = { # Diderino
}
b_obrosovo = {
}
}
c_torzhok = {
color={ 140 30 30 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_yamskygorodok = {
}
b_shcheremenski = {
}
b_kingisepp = {
swedish = "Jamborg"
norse = "Jamborg"
danish = "Jamburg"
norwegian = "Jamburg"
german = "Jamburg"
finnish = "Jaama"
samoyed = "Jaama"
mordvin = "Jaama"
lappish = "Jaama"
komi = "Jaama"
}
b_volosovo = {
}
b_konnovo = {
}
b_vistino = {
}
b_komarovka = {
}
b_vassakara = {
}
}
c_novgorod = {
color={ 149 166 106 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

swedish = "Holmgård"
norse = "Holmgarðr"
danish = "Holmgård"
norwegian = "Holmgård"

b_borovichi = {
norse = Nygarðr
swedish = Nygård
norwegian = Nygård
danish = Nygård
}
b_novgorod = {
swedish = "Holmgård"
norse = "Holmgarðr"
danish = "Holmgård"
norwegian = "Holmgård"
}
b_tikhvin = {
holy_site = slavic_pagan
holy_site = slavic_pagan_reformed
holy_site = finnish_pagan
holy_site = finnish_pagan_reformed
}
b_chudovo = {
}
b_okulovka = {
}
b_boldorki = {
}
b_pestovo = {
}
b_luga = {
}
}
c_pskov = {
color={ 151 167 107 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

german = "Pleskau"

b_ostrov = {
}
b_pskov = {
}
b_pechory = {
}
b_gdov = {
}
b_porkhov = {
}
b_dedovichi = {
}
b_svyatogorki = {
}
b_soltchi = {
}
}
c_velikiye_luki = {
color={ 154 170 110 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_velikiyeluki = {
}
b_sebezh = {
}
b_nevel = {
}
b_opochka = {
}
b_bely = {
}
b_usvyaty = {
}
b_loknya = {
}
b_staryatoropa = {
}
}
c_toropets = {
color={ 157 173 113 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_staryarussa = {
}
b_valday = {
}
b_toropets = {
}
b_demyansk = {
}
b_shimsk = {
}
b_dno = {
}
b_lychkovo = {
}
b_kresttsy = {
}
}
}
d_rostov = {
color={ 124 137 89 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 574 # Rostov

c_pereyaslavl_zalessky = {
color={ 163 179 119 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_pereyaslavlzalessky = {
}
b_sergiyevposad = {
}
b_aleksandrov = {
}
b_strunino = {
}
b_karabanovo = {
}
b_kubrinsk = {
}
b_kupanskoye = {
}
b_khmelniki = {
}
}
c_rostov = {
color={ 166 180 122 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

swedish = "Radstofa"
norse = "Radstofa"
danish = "Radstofa"
norwegian = "Radstofa"
komi=Merya
mordvin=Merya
samoyed=Merya
finnish=Merya
lappish=Merya

b_sarskoyegorodishche = {
komi=Merya
mordvin=Merya
samoyed=Merya
finnish=Merya
lappish=Merya
}
b_spasoyakovlevsky = {
}
b_rostov = {
swedish = "Radstofa"
norse = "Radstofa"
danish = "Radstofa"
norwegian = "Radstofa"
}
b_petrovskoye = {
}
b_gavrilovyam = {
}
b_borisoglebsky = {
}
b_karash = {
}
b_shurskol = {
}
}
c_uglich = {
color={ 169 183 125 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_uglich = {
}
b_pertoma = {
}
b_kashin = {
}
b_kalyazin = {
}
b_ustscheksna = {
}
b_myshkin = {
}
b_tikhmenevo = {
}
b_novynekouz = {
}
}
}
d_tver = {
color={ 169 183 125 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 570 # Tver

c_tver = {
color={ 172 186 128 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_tver = {
}
b_torzhok = {
}
b_ostashkov = {
}
b_bezhichi = {
}
b_tvergorodok = {
}
b_vyshnyvolochyok = {
}
b_zubtsov = {
}
b_udomelski = {
}
}
c_vyazma = {
color={ 175 189 131 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_vyazma = {
}
b_dukhov = {
}
b_yelnya = {
}
b_gzhatsky = {
}
b_dorogobuzh = {
}
b_vyazkholm = {
}
b_ugra = {
}
b_safonovo = {
}
}
}
d_yaroslavl = {
color={ 178 192 134 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 572 # Yaroslavl

c_kostroma = {
color={ 181 195 137 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_kostroma = {
}
b_sudislavl = {
}
b_plyos = {
}
b_nerektha = {
}
b_apraksino = {
}
b_kosmynino = {
}
b_zavolzhsk = {
}
b_nekrasoskoye = {
}
}
c_yaroslavl = {
color={ 184 198 140 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_timerevo = {
}
b_yaroslavl = {
}
b_tolga = {
}
b_romanov = {
}
b_semibratovo = {
}
b_karabikha = {
}
b_putyatino = {
}
b_volgostroy = {
}
}
}
d_vladimir = {
color={ 180 200 90 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 582 # Vladimir

c_galich_mersky = {
color={ 190 204 146 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_galichmersky = {
}
b_levkovo = {
}
b_gradmersky = {
}
b_buy = {
}
b_chistyebory = {
}
b_susanino = {
}
b_kadyy = {
}
b_isaevo = {
}
}
c_gorodez = {
color={ 193 207 149 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_gorodez = {
}
b_feodorovsky = {
}
b_kitezh = {
}
b_puchishche = {
}
b_pravdinsk = {
}
b_lukh = {
}
b_gorkovskoye = {
}
b_sokolskoye = {
}
}
c_nizhny_novgorod = {
color={ 196 210 152 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

komi=Ashli
mordvin=Ashli
samoyed=Ashli
finnish=Ashli
lappish=Ashli
cuman=Ashli
pecheneg=Ashli
mongol=Ashli
turkish=Ashli
avar=Ashli

b_nizhnynovgorod = {
komi=Ashli
mordvin=Ashli
samoyed=Ashli
finnish=Ashli
lappish=Ashli
cuman=Ashli
pecheneg=Ashli
mongol=Ashli
turkish=Ashli
avar=Ashli
}
b_sarov = {
}
b_bor = {
}
b_kstovo = {
}
b_knyaginino = {
}
b_vasilyeva = {
}
b_balakhna = {
}
b_bogorodsk = {
}
}
c_suzdal = {
color={ 199 213 155 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

swedish = "Sursdalar"
norse = "Sursdalar"
danish = "Sursdalar"
norwegian = "Sursdalar"

b_suzdal = {
swedish = "Sursdalar"
norse = "Sursdalar"
danish = "Sursdalar"
norwegian = "Sursdalar"
}
b_bogolyubovo = {
}
b_suzstarodub = {
}
b_suzivanovo = {
}
b_kovrov = {
}
b_seredaupino = {
}
b_teykovo = {
}
b_lezhnevo = {
}
}
c_vladimir = {
color={ 202 216 158 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_vladimir = {
}
b_yuryevpolsky = {
}
b_volochok = {
}
b_undol = {
}
b_petuschki = {
}
b_sudogda = {
}
b_sobinka = {
}
b_kosterevo = {
}
}
}
d_moskva = {
color={ 207 222 123 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 575 # Moskva

c_mozhaysk = {
color={ 228 168 7 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_volgamozhaysk = {
}
b_shakhunya = {
}
b_yaransk = {
}
b_vakhtan = {
}
b_varnavino = {
}
b_kiknur = {
}
b_tonshaevo = {
}
b_uren = {
}
}
c_moskva = {
color={ 220 235 176 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_moskva = {
}
b_rogozhi = {
}
b_kaluga = {
}
b_serpukhov = {
}
b_belyov = {
}
b_mozhaysk = {
}
b_rzhev = {
}
b_klin = {
}
}
}
}

k_ruthenia = {
color={ 147 164 104 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 547 # Kiev

culture = russian

slavic_pagan_reformed = 500 # Crusade target weight
baltic_pagan_reformed = 100 # Crusade target weight
tengri_pagan_reformed = 100
finnish_pagan_reformed = 100

allow = {
hidden_tooltip = {
OR = {
ai = no
culture_group = north_germanic
culture_group = east_slavic
}
}
}

norse = Könugarðr
swedish = Könugård
norwegian = Kønugård
danish = Kønugård

d_kiev = {
color={ 129 187 125 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

dignity = 10 # Counted as having 10 more counties than it does
capital = 547 # Kiev

norse = Könugarðr
swedish = Könugård
norwegian = Kønugård
danish = Kønugård

pagan_coa = {
template = 0
layer = {
texture = 2
texture_internal = 1
emblem = 0
color = 0
color = 0
color = 0
}
religion = "norse_pagan"
}

c_korsun = {
color={ 102 102 22 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_korsun = {
}
b_kaniv = {
}
b_cherkassy = {
}
b_smila = {
}
b_zolotonosha = {
}
b_uman = {
}
b_zhuravky = {
}
b_mirov = {
}
}
c_kiev = {
color={ 106 106 26 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

norse = Könugarðr
swedish = Könugård
norwegian = Kønugård
danish = Kønugård

b_kiev = {
norse = Könugarðr
swedish = Könugård
norwegian = Kønugård
danish = Kønugård
}
b_yuriev = {
holy_site = slavic_pagan
holy_site = slavic_pagan_reformed
}
b_iskorosten = {
}
b_vyshhorod = {
}
b_ovruch = {
}
b_zhitomir = {
}
b_malyn = {
}
b_fastiv = {
}
}
}
d_galich = {
color={ 224 112 130 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 536 # Galich

c_terebovl = {
color={ 104 104 24 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_terebovl = {
}
b_pochayivlavra = {
}
b_bratslav = {
}
b_kremenets = {
}
b_borschiv = {
}
b_vinnytsia = {
}
b_buchach = {
}
b_zalischyky = {
}
}
c_galich = {
color={ 254 255 215 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_galich = {
}
b_lvov = {
}
b_dubno = {
}
b_vasyliv = {
}
b_kolomyia = {
}
b_ternopil = {
}
b_buzhsk = {
}
b_brody = {
}
}
c_peremyshl = {
color={ 254 255 218 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_peremyshl = {
}
b_jaroslav = {
}
b_sanok = {
}
b_lubaczow = {
}
b_grodek = {
}
b_rzeszow = {
}
b_volkrosno = {
}
b_jaslo = {
}
}
}
d_volhynia = {
color={ 204 155 121 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 535 # Vladimir Volynsky

c_vladimir_volynsky = {
color={ 255 255 223 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_vladimirvolynsky = {
}
b_kovel = {
}
b_kholm = {
}
b_ivanichy = {
}
b_hrubieszow = {
}
b_torchyn = {
}
b_cherven = {
}
b_luboml = {
}
}
c_beresty = {
color={ 255 255 225 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_beresty = {
}
b_bielsk = {
}
b_kobryn = {
}
b_kamyanyets = {
}
b_mielnik = {
}
b_lublin = {
}
b_wlodawa = {
}
b_parczew = {
}
}
}
d_turov = {
color={ 166 85 87 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 552 # Turov

c_turov = {
color={ 166 89 91 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_turov = {
}
b_dubrovitsya = {
}
b_mazyr = {
}
b_slutsk = {
}
b_zhytkavichy = {
}
b_bobruisk = {
}
b_petrykaw = {
}
b_yelsk = {
}
}
c_pinsk = {
color={ 166 93 95 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_pinsk = {
}
b_lutsk = {
}
b_porkhovo = {
}
b_biaroza = {
}
b_stepan = {
}
b_kosava = {
}
b_luninets = {
}
b_dabuchin = {
}
}
}

d_vitebsk = {
color={ 196 33 55 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 417 # Vitebsk

c_minsk = {
color={ 174 43 43 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_minsk = {
}
b_maladzyechna = {
}
b_borisow = {
}
b_kletsk = {
}
b_berezino = {
}
b_nesvizh = {
}
b_valozhyn = {
}
b_kapyl = {
}
}
c_orsha = {
color={ 174 47 47 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_orsha = {
}
b_novolukomi = {
}
b_talachyn = {
}
b_sianno = {
}
b_shklou = {
}
b_kopys = {
}
b_horki = {
}
b_larynouka = {
}
}
c_vitebsk = {
color={ 174 51 51 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_vitebsk = {
}
b_sakolniki = {
}
b_haradok = {
}
b_drazdy = {
}
b_ruba = {
}
b_liozno = {
}
b_stryzhava = {
}
b_baroniki = {
}
}
}

d_smolensk = {
color={ 226 241 182 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 568 # Smolensk

c_smolensk = {
color={ 229 244 185 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

swedish = "Smaleskja"
norse = "Smaleskja"
danish = "Smaleskja"
norwegian = "Smaleskja"

b_smolensk = {
swedish = "Smaleskja"
norse = "Smaleskja"
danish = "Smaleskja"
norwegian = "Smaleskja"
}
b_velizh = {
}
b_demidov = {
}
b_krasnoi = {
}
b_przhevalskoye = {
}
b_rodnya = {
}
b_yartsevo = {
}
}
c_roslavl = {
color={ 239 242 185 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_roslavl = {
}
b_pochinok = {
}
b_chocimsk = {
}
}
c_mstislavl = {
color={ 232 247 188 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_mstitslavl = {
}
b_krychaw = {
}
b_mogilev = {
}
b_bychaw = {
}
b_chavusy = {
}
b_zhlobin = {
}
b_chachersk = {
}
b_rahacou = {
}
}
}
d_chernigov = {
color={ 150 235 91 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 554 # Chernigov

c_lyubech = {
color={ 238 253 194 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_lyubech = {
}
b_rechytsa = {
}
b_gomel = {
}
b_brahin = {
}
b_loyew = {
}
b_zlynka = {
}
b_klimovo = {
}
b_novozybkov = {
}
}
c_chernigov = {
color={ 242 255 197 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_chernigov = {
}
b_kozelets = {
}
b_nizhyn = {
}
b_borzna = {
}
b_horodnia = {
}
b_gorodets = {
}
b_sosnytsia = {
}
b_mglin = {
}
}
}

d_novgorod-seversk = { # Called Bryansk in-game
color = { 120 155 40 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 567 # Novgorod Seversky

c_novgorod_seversky = {
color={ 19 128 77 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_novgorodseversky = {
}
b_starodub = {
}
b_glukhov = {
}
b_rysk = {
}
b_putivl = {
}
b_trubchevsk = {
}
b_sevsk = {
}
b_semenivka = {
}
}
c_bryansk = {
color={ 223 238 179 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_bryansk = {
}
b_pochep = {
holy_site = baltic_pagan
holy_site = baltic_pagan_reformed
}
b_orel = {
}
b_karachev = {
}
b_dyatkovo = {
}
b_klynov = {
}
b_belev = {
}
b_mtsensk = {
}
}
}

d_ryazan = {
color={ 110 115 45 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 580 # Ryazan

c_pronsk = {
color={ 22 131 80 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_pronsk = {
}
b_yelets = {
}
b_tula = {
}
b_mikhaylov = {
}
b_skopin = {
}
b_ryazhsk = {
}
b_sergijewskoje = {
}
b_bogoroditsk = {
}
}
c_murom = {
color={ 208 222 164 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

swedish = "Moramar"
norse = "Moramar"
danish = "Moramar"
norwegian = "Moramar"

b_murom = {
swedish = "Moramar"
norse = "Moramar"
danish = "Moramar"
norwegian = "Moramar"
}
b_moramar = {
}
b_melenki = {
}
b_vyksa = {
}
b_kulebaki = {
}
b_vilya = {
}
b_mordovshchikovo = {
}
b_lipnya = {
}
}
c_ryazan = {
color={ 211 225 167 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_ryazan = {
}
b_solotcha = {
holy_site = finnish_pagan
holy_site = finnish_pagan_reformed
}
b_grodets = {
}
b_spassk = {
}
b_korablino = {
}
b_rybnino = {
}
b_sasovo = {
}
b_klepiki = {
}
}
c_kolomna = {
color={ 214 228 170 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_kolomna = {
}
b_glukhovichi = {
}
b_zaraysk = {
}
b_bronnitsy = {
}
b_ramenskoye = {
}
b_egorevsk = {
}
b_peski = {
}
b_cherkizovo = {
}
}
}

d_pereyaslavl = {
color={ 232 200 115 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 555 # Pereyaslavl

c_pereyaslavl = {
color={ 235 205 118 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_pereyaslavl = {
}
b_myrhorod = {
}
b_hadyach = {
}
b_chornukhy = {
}
b_hrebinka = {
}
b_lokhvytsia = {
}
b_boryspil = {
}
b_velykisorochyntsi = {
}
}
c_chortitza = {
color={ 234 194 88 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_ltava = {
}
b_chortitza = {
}
b_baszmacka = {
}
b_lubny = {
}
b_alexandrowsk = {
}
b_rasumowka = {
}
b_vosnesjensk = {
}
b_khorol = {
}
}
}
}

k_perm = {
color={ 204 188 127 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 886 # Perm

finnish_pagan_reformed = 500 # Crusade target weight
slavic_pagan_reformed = 100 # Crusade target weight
tengri_pagan_reformed = 50

culture = komi

# Creation/usurpation trigger
allow = {
hidden_tooltip = {
OR = {
ai = no
culture_group = finno_ugric
}
}
}

d_perm = {
color={ 234 208 137 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 886 # Perm

c_perm = {
color={ 237 211 140 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_perym = {
}
b_perm = {
holy_site = finnish_pagan
holy_site = finnish_pagan_reformed
}
b_gorodki = {
}
b_yagoshikha = {
}
b_lysva = {
}
b_cherdyn = {
}
b_chemuska = {
}
b_biser = {
}
}
c_votyaki = {
color={ 197 162 67 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_achit = {
}
b_sarana = {
}
b_ufimskiy = {
}
b_bisert = {
}
b_arti = {
}
b_atig = {
}
b_shalya = {
}
b_shamary = {
}
}
c_yamalia = {
color={ 240 214 143 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_polnovatvozh = {
}
b_obdorsk = {
}
b_lapytnangk = {
}
b_ituyakha = {
}
b_urengoi = {
}
b_nazym = {
}
b_baygul = {
}
b_kaek = {
}
}
c_komi = {
color={ 243 217 146 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_inta = {
}
b_vorkuta = {
}
b_ustkolom = {
}
b_usttsilma = {
}
b_aykino = {
}
b_vorgashor = {
}
b_kharp = {
}
b_khalmeryu = {
}
}
c_chelyabi = {
color={ 246 220 149 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_chelyabinsk = {
}
b_ustkatav = {
}
b_asha = {
}
b_chebarkul = {
}
b_kaslinsky = {
}
b_kyshtym = {
}
b_miass = {
}
b_satka = {
}
}
c_khantia = {
color={ 249 223 152 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_chanty = {
}
b_beloyarskiy = {
}
b_igrim = {
}
b_berezovo = {
}
b_pnobe = {
}
b_nyagyn = {
}
b_djinesh = {
}
b_sherkala = {
}
}
}
d_hlynov = { # Ugra
color={ 134 145 31 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 401 # Hlynov

c_hlynov = {
color={ 116 131 71 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_hlynov = {
}
b_egra = {
}
b_glazkar = {
}
b_izkar = {
}
b_kambarka = {
}
b_sarapul = {
}
b_mozjga = {
}
b_wotka = {
}
}
c_zyriane = {
color={ 195 160 65 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_kungur = {
}
b_kordon = {
}
b_suksun = {
}
b_kukushtan = {
}
b_gari = {
}
b_lek = {
}
b_ergach = {
}
b_posad = {
}
}
c_ugra = {
color={ 119 134 74 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_ukhta = {
}
b_sosnogorsk = {
}
b_yarega = {
}
b_vodnyy = {
}
b_nizhodes = {
}
b_vuktyl = {
}
b_kadzherom = {
}
b_voyvozh = {
}
}
c_syrj = {
color={ 122 137 77 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_syktyvkar = {
}
b_pyras = {
}
b_yugydyag = {
}
b_mikun = {
}
b_emva = {
}
b_ezhva = {
}
b_sindor = {
}
b_zheshart = {
}
}
c_veliky_ustug = {
color={ 125 140 80 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_velikyustug = {
}
b_gleden = {
}
b_krasavino = {
}
b_luza = {
}
b_pinyug = {
}
b_podosinovets = {
}
b_maromitsa = {
}
b_oparino = {
}
}
}

d_bjarmia = {
color = { 81 50 20 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

capital = 396 # Bjarmia

culture = komi

c_romny = {
color={ 128 143 83 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_romny = {
}
b_ugol = {
}
b_vozhega = {
}
b_marinskaya = {
}
b_yuchka = {
}
b_bykovskaya = {
}
b_kholuy = {
}
b_vysokaya = {
}
}
c_trans-portage = {
color={ 103 118 58 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_kargopol = {
}
b_solovetsky = {
}
b_shenkursk = {
}
b_konosha = {
}
b_nyandoma = {
}
b_plesetsk = {
}
b_samoded = {
}
b_obozerskiy = {
}
}
c_north_dvina = {
color={ 106 121 61 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_kholmogory = {
}
b_nikolokorelski = {
}
b_solvychegodsk = {
}
b_novokholmogory = {
}
b_antonievosiysky = {
}
b_koryazhma = {
}
b_usolsk = {
}
b_archangelsk = {
}
}
c_bjarmia = {
color={ 109 124 64 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_okladnikowa = {
}
b_okulovsky = {
}
b_kusnezowa = {
}
b_kamenka = {
}
b_pinega = {
}
b_mezen = {
}
b_kimzha = {
}
b_lampozhnya = {
}
}
c_samoyeds = {
color={ 100 115 55 }
color2={ 255 255 255 }

b_verkhmgla = {
}
b_yazhma = {
}
b_sukhanikha = {
}
b_arkhipovo = {
}
b_vizhas = {
}
b_tarasova = {
}
b_chizha = {
}
b_kiya = {
}
}
}
}
}

[Flickerdart]

Well, this is dumb. I pasted in that text. Didn't work. So I reinstalled the game. Not only did that not work, but now I'm missing button graphics for main menu buttons!

[Starsign]

So with VIET 1.5.1 finally out, I got around to playing as a West African Pagan in 867. Due to the more Ireland-like structure it has, it's been rather fun. That is until the Idrisids from above went from 4.5k troops to 11k in around 30 years. I think the AI now knows how to handle decadence better.

Speaking of whcih, after getting stomped flat in an attempted attack on the Idrisids (they were fighting two other Muslim dynasties so I thought it was worth I try) I went, "why hasn't PI fixed the lack of defensive attrition for West Africans yet?" Then I went on the forums and learned that it was never fixed because West African Pagans are not designed to have defensive attrition.

I am not amused. :smallannoyed:

[Manticoran]

If you're playing West Africans, or interested in doing so, I recommend the Somewhat More Historical Map mod, it really fleshes out that whole area.

[Rockphed]

So with VIET 1.5.1 finally out, I got around to playing as a West African Pagan in 867. Due to the more Ireland-like structure it has, it's been rather fun. That is until the Idrisids from above went from 4.5k troops to 11k in around 30 years. I think the AI now knows how to handle decadence better.

Speaking of whcih, after getting stomped flat in an attempted attack on the Idrisids (they were fighting two other Muslim dynasties so I thought it was worth I try) I went, "why hasn't PI fixed the lack of defensive attrition for West Africans yet?" Then I went on the forums and learned that it was never fixed because West African Pagans are not designed to have defensive attrition.

I am not amused. :smallannoyed:

Wait, what? Then what are they supposed to have? Are they just there as a stomping partner for the western muslim nations?

[Leecros]

Wait, what? Then what are they supposed to have? Are they just there as a stomping partner for the western muslim nations?

I think that does pretty much sum up what they are, yes.

[Artanis]

Wait, what? Then what are they supposed to have? Are they just there as a stomping partner for the western muslim nations?
Pretty much, yeah. There's a couple others like that in the game too (the Miawhatsits below Egypt come to mind).

[Flickerdart]

Pretty much, yeah. There's a couple others like that in the game too (the Miawhatsits below Egypt come to mind).
The Miaphysites are actually competent, though - if you can surge north and take Egypt in the middle of an Abbasid civil war, you've got sea access and your Pope reinstated and can form the Empire of Abyssinia. You can also marry Christians for allies, and use mercenaries. With West Africa, marriage to anyone else is out of the question, you have a single rubbish merc you share with everyone else in Africa, and the Umayyads roflstomp the Idrisids pretty quick and then sit around having ridiculous stability.

[Leecros]

I agree with Flickerdart, i usually see the Miaphysites do pretty well. Not usually well enough to actually make gains, but well enough to survive the sunni's.

[Flickerdart]

The biggest thing helping the Ethiopians is probably that the Abassids tend to have absurd decadence (I've seen it hit 100% more than once) which results in crippling civil wars. Umayyads seem to manage their decadence pretty well.

[Talderas]

Yeah, they changed it literally days after I altered that file. It's the only one I changed, though, so fixing it should bring Ironman up.

Why didn't you set this up as a mod?

[Starsign]

Despite West Africa's... impossibly skewered condition, I found that it is left quite alone so far in my game. The Idrisids have a Content ruler (in VIET, certain traits like Content make you unable to announce any war that isn't a de jure or a claim on the behalf of someone else) but seemed more interested in expanding east before then. The Umayyads also seem content to simply stay in Al-Andalus (aka Spain, which VIET allows me to rename to a number of options) so I'm keeping a watch on them both while I work on improving the Kingdom of Mali (West Africa in VIET is separated into 3 kingdoms, Mali, Songhay, and Jolof. Taking two of the three allows me to form the Mali Empire)

Another cool thing in VIET is that it expands provinces westward to allow for coastal provinces, so I don't need to force my way upward to expand. West African Ireland anyone? :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

Another cool thing in VIET is that it expands provinces westward to allow for coastal provinces, so I don't need to force my way upward to expand. West African Ireland anyone? :smalltongue:
Can you handle the vikings who have similar designs?

[Artanis]

Speaking of Vikings, I just had my most intense war ever in CKII. I started as a Cathar Countess in Old Gods Ireland (spear-stabbing in wars over gender equality leads to far too many euphamisms to pass up :smalltongue: ), and Ivar Doomstack had picked off C.Ulster shortly before passing away and shortly after I became Queen of Ireland. So when his son joined his Jorvik ally in munching on what was left of England after depleting his levies putting down a peasant revolt, I declared a Holy War For Ulster, spent 3 years' income on mercenaries, raised every levy I could find in my 8-county "Kingdom", and started assaulting every depleted holding I could get to.

The result was me wiping out over 6000 Jorvik troops as they filtered to the front piecemeal and the warscore ticking to 100% just four days before a 5K stack ran down and wiped out the shattered remains of my forces :smallbiggrin:

[Starsign]

So playing Crusader Kings 2, I've realized something about the 2.0 patch. Is it just me or are uprisings (specifically successor revolts, rebel attacks, and decadence wars) absolutely terrifying if they happen to someone? I've dealt with three successor revolts and each of them have had around 10k troops when I can muster 7k at most in Mali. (with a ruler at 7/7 demease and 18 Martial) All of them were pretty much game-ending without having to assassinate the successor in question.

Decadence wars seem even worse. I saw the Abbasids, who held the Arabian Empire and Spain, get completely floored by a 180k doomstack of rebels due to the Abbasid ruler's 100% decadence. I was completely terrified when I saw how bad it got. :smalleek:

[pffh]

Yeah they forgot to change the number of event troops with the levy change. So now you can get rebellions in single counties that field more men than entire empires.

[Artanis]

So I seem to have stumbled upon something very interesting. It appears that a child's education trait is determined by who is tutoring them when they come of age, not who is tutoring them for the other 9.99 years. So you can have somebody with good traits tutor them until the day before their 16th birthday, then switch tutors to a Midas Touched or whatever and get the good education on them.

Granted, 2 occurances is not the largest sample size, but twice now children have had their guardians die within a month of coming of age and they both wound up with education corresponding to the new guardian, not the old one.

[Guancyto]

Your sample size is small but your conclusions are accurate because that's exactly what happens.

Educate your child yourself and then fob them off on your courtiers for their bar mitzvah (a few years late but it's to be expected) and you'll rule the world in no time!

[Cristo Meyers]

So playing Crusader Kings 2, I've realized something about the 2.0 patch. Is it just me or are uprisings (specifically successor revolts, rebel attacks, and decadence wars) absolutely terrifying if they happen to someone? I've dealt with three successor revolts and each of them have had around 10k troops when I can muster 7k at most in Mali. (with a ruler at 7/7 demease and 18 Martial) All of them were pretty much game-ending without having to assassinate the successor in question.

Decadence wars seem even worse. I saw the Abbasids, who held the Arabian Empire and Spain, get completely floored by a 180k doomstack of rebels due to the Abbasid ruler's 100% decadence. I was completely terrified when I saw how bad it got. :smalleek:


Yeah they forgot to change the number of event troops with the levy change. So now you can get rebellions in single counties that field more men than entire empires.

No kidding.

...I think I'll wait for that to get fixed before starting up again. Rebellions were irritating enough.

[wiimanclassic]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

[IthilanorStPete]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

All of the above. :smalltongue: More seriously speaking, I'd rank them from most to least as follows:
1. The Old Gods. Opens up the pagans + 200 more years of game time.
2. Sword of Islam. There are a lot of Muslims. Decadence is kind of broken* at the moment, but there's a rework coming soon.
3. Legacy of Rome, mainly because retinues are universally applicable and ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't add much in the way of events and decisions, and Orthodox characters are playable without it, but mending the Great Schism and restoring the Roman Empire are pretty cool.
4. The Republic. The merchant republics don't have a lot of variety, and their gameplay is pretty straightforward.
5. Sunset Invasion. Extremely non-serious, ahistorical, and generally ridiculous. It can be fun, but it's easily the least necessary of the DLCs.

*Broken as in non-functional. You give your family lands to stave off decadence buildup, but that will inevitably lead to decadence spiraling out of control and doomstacks of Decadence Revolts getting spawned. The only way to keep decadence under control is abusing the free imprisonment/execution of male family members.

[Driderman]

So, should I get Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, The Republic, or The Old Gods? Which would add the most for their current steam sales price?

The Old Gods is mandatory, everything else is optional :smallbiggrin:

[Starsign]

The Old Gods is mandatory, everything else is optional :smallbiggrin:

I agree with this, though Legacy of Rome is my second choice because Retinues are great (by which I mean broken if you know how to use them :smalltongue:) and very helpful for the more struggling areas (such as Mali)

[Avaris]

Where would people put Sons of Abraham in the DLC pile?

[Flickerdart]

Where would people put Sons of Abraham in the DLC pile?
It's around Legacy of Rome level, possibly even below. Spices up playing Catholics and adds Jews, but doesn't add that much to others. I think it's still discounted right now, though, so there's that.

[IthilanorStPete]

It's around Legacy of Rome level, possibly even below. Spices up playing Catholics and adds Jews, but doesn't add that much to others. I think it's still discounted right now, though, so there's that.

It's not discounted at the moment - hasn't been since it came out.

[Starsign]

I need some advice for CK2. I'm playing as Mali and I've managed to get the North African territories that have Mountain terrain. (so I finally have some sort of defense) However I've come across a problem; I need Marrakech to reform West African Pagan (I'm using the VIET mod, so I need 4 holy sites to reform) but taking it allows Jihads to form, which I'm pretty sure will completely destroy me by 1035.

So my question is, how do I handle Jihads as a pagan? I'd wish I could reform other pagans but I don't know how to do that when they are all over the place. So what alternatives do I have?

[Sanguine]

Well I'm not entirely sure what VIET has done with the West Africans but I'll give you my two cents.

Once you reform the religion you should get a Holy Order, this will be very helpful as Holy Order have no upkeep when you are defending against Infidels. If VIET adds any mercenaries for the region it would be a good idea to wait and save up money for mercs before you take Marrakech. But this is the most important thing, if you can't win it's not the end of the world, you will lose your lands in Mauritania but that's it, Mali will be untouched and you'll have a 30 year grace period before they can call another Jihad, during which time you can build up your nation to the point where you can defend against a Jihad.

[Starsign]

Well I'm not entirely sure what VIET has done with the West Africans but I'll give you my two cents.

Once you reform the religion you should get a Holy Order, this will be very helpful as Holy Order have no upkeep when you are defending against Infidels. If VIET adds any mercenaries for the region it would be a good idea to wait and save up money for mercs before you take Marrakech. But this is the most important thing, if you can't win it's not the end of the world, you will lose your lands in Mauritania but that's it, Mali will be untouched and you'll have a 30 year grace period before they can call another Jihad, during which time you can build up your nation to the point where you can defend against a Jihad.

I'll add some information about West Africa in VIET. First there are new coastal provinces (though the ports don't exactly work yet) and starts out fragmented in most bookmarks. Secondly now there are three mercenaries rather than one. Thirdly certain areas now have an increased tax, so they're more worthwhile to take. Just benefits all around, which is how I've managed to head north in the first place.

That is good advice too, thanks. :smallsmile: Considering that I can call Great Holy Wars once Jihads are in place, I think I'll definitely have some land from them that I can have. (such as Andalusia and Portugal) Thanks for the advice. I'm sure I'll take use of it. :smallsmile:

Now how can I convert pagans across the map? I'd like to convert the dying Norse, the huge Finnish, the numerous Slavics, the Tengri Golden Horde when they come, and the VIET-added East African Pagans, but I don't know how to do that. (and I don't think that I can do it with my court chaplain) Any advice?

[JeminiZero]

How much time do you have to prepare? If you know that the Muslims are going to launch Jihad by a certain date, then the best way to prepare for it is to:
a) Weaken the Muslims
b) Strengthen yourself.

To this end, if you holy war and expand aggressively, and subjugate most Muslim territories, they will be less able to launch Jihad come 1035. :smallbiggrin:

[Starsign]

How much time do you have to prepare? If you know that the Muslims are going to launch Jihad by a certain date, then the best way to prepare for it is to:
a) Weaken the Muslims
b) Strengthen yourself.

To this end, if you holy war and expand aggressively, and subjugate most Muslim territories, they will be less able to launch Jihad come 1035. :smallbiggrin:

Well they'll get it, at latest, around 1187. Plenty of time, but there are other ways for Jihads to start. (for example, Catholics taking Jerusalem)

As a Defensive Pagan, I have a couple problems with conquering. First of all I use the Conquest CB to gain territories, so that's pretty much one province at a time. Secondly Many of VIET's unique West African traits apply to the culture group of West Africa, not the religion. Since I'm expanding north, I could end up with a ruler/heir that is Berber culture, meaning I lose these features. This includes the succession laws not Gavelkind. (I really don't want to have Seniority) Now it is much easier to reform culture to that of my province, but it's really a toss-up and last 10 years if I can do that before my heir is killed.

BTW, anyone know how to get a lot of Piety? Reforming is more difficult in VIET, I need 4 holy sites, 60% Moral Authority (which I think is easily doable) and 2000 piety. Anyone know how in the world I'm gonna get that much? :smalleek:

[Sanguine]

Well based on my own experience with Reformed Norse you can't send your priest to convert other pagans like a christian can, which is annoying. But you do still have two options.

The first is holy war: A non-zealous pagan*, or Zoroastrian, who is being holy warred has the option to convert to his attackers religion. They don't always do it, but sometimes they do. Unfortunately due to the West Africans being so isolated this probably won't be viable for quite some time.

The second is marriage: An unreformed pagan with a wife or concubine of a different religion can convert to said religion by event. Now in vanilla this doesn't allow you to convert to a different kind of paganism, but I believe VIET changed that. Even if it doesn't though marriage is still a viable option. You simply use strategic marriages and assassination to ensure that a member of your religion inherits the realm. Also there is always the off chance the the foreign rulers will let the West Africans you marry into their courts educate their children, though you can't control this.

As for piety. Fighting heretic and infidels is always a good way to rack some up. Also if your priest converts a province that will get you a little, but it has to be your priest or you don't get it. Other then that there is just having the right traits and picking the right options for events, plus anything VIET might have added for the West African religion.

Edit: Also Temples! Temple vassals give you piety. Build up your temples and you get even more.


*They might have to be unreformed for regular holy wars, but I know at least with Crusades reformed pagans will sometimes convert.

[JeminiZero]

So reading around, it seems that legitimizing a bastard child only occurs during a specific event.

Does anybody know what causes/encourages it to trigger?

[IthilanorStPete]

So reading around, it seems that legitimizing a bastard child only occurs during a specific event.

Does anybody know what causes/encourages it to trigger?

If you have a bastard child, legitimizing them should be available as a decision in the Intrigue panel. According to ckiiwiki, the only requirements are being the liege or above of your bastard and 20 piety.

[Artanis]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world :smalleek:

I somehow eked out a win due to some ridiculously good generals and the AI's tendency to split up and start assaulting everything, but it still cost me half my military. :smallannoyed:

[Grif]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world :smalleek:

I somehow eked out a win due to some ridiculously good generals and the AI's tendency to split up and start assaulting everything, but it still cost me half my military. :smallannoyed:

Ew. Does that mean the game is broken (again) for the time being?

[Flickerdart]

Sooo...just ran into the "Event troops are ridiculously huge" issue when a relative tried to take my throne with a plucky band of adventurers that was the third largest military in the entire goddamn world :smalleek:
Maybe there were a lot of repressed peasants and landless hopefuls sitting around at the time? :smalltongue:

[Narkis]

Ew. Does that mean the game is broken (again) for the time being?

Indeed it is. Woe betide you should a rebel faction get reinforced by event.

[Flickerdart]

To be fair, this is a pretty good anti-blobbing measure that makes it harder for the player to win everything forever and can break up AI blobs. It's just frustrating.

[pffh]

And with the levy change republics are back as overpowered since mercenaries and retinues are just as strong as before.

[Starsign]

And with the levy change republics are back as overpowered since mercenaries and retinues are just as strong as before.

Well to be fair, mercenaries generally become underpowered later on in CK2 back in 1.111 due to the amount of troops you get. I find that they become more valuable in 2.0 because they make a bigger difference.

And retinues were always unbalanced. Money should never be a factor in the upkeep for them. :smalltongue: Being able to raid with them is hilariously wonderful.

[Artanis]

Well to be fair, mercenaries generally become underpowered later on in CK2 back in 1.111 due to the amount of troops you get. I find that they become more valuable in 2.0 because they make a bigger difference.

And retinues were always unbalanced. Money should never be a factor in the upkeep for them. :smalltongue: Being able to raid with them is hilariously wonderful.
My favorite retinue trick was to tell them to move into an enemy's territory, then declare war the day before they arrive :smallamused:

[JeminiZero]

If you have a bastard child, legitimizing them should be available as a decision in the Intrigue panel. According to ckiiwiki, the only requirements are being the liege or above of your bastard and 20 piety.
Can't seem to find it there though... maybe it is blocked by one of my ruler's traits (http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll145/JeminiZero/CK2-Miscellaneous/2013-12-08_00003-King_Edern_of_Wales.jpg)?

[VonFenris]

You can either legitimize a bastard at birth or later by event if you've acknowledged him, as far as I knwo there's no way back from denouncing the child.

[Talderas]

All of the above. :smalltongue: More seriously speaking, I'd rank them from most to least as follows:
1. The Old Gods. Opens up the pagans + 200 more years of game time.
2. Sword of Islam. There are a lot of Muslims. Decadence is kind of broken* at the moment, but there's a rework coming soon.
3. Legacy of Rome, mainly because retinues are universally applicable and ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't add much in the way of events and decisions, and Orthodox characters are playable without it, but mending the Great Schism and restoring the Roman Empire are pretty cool.
4. The Republic. The merchant republics don't have a lot of variety, and their gameplay is pretty straightforward.
5. Sunset Invasion. Extremely non-serious, ahistorical, and generally ridiculous. It can be fun, but it's easily the least necessary of the DLCs.

How I would rate them....

1. The Old Gods - Opens up the Pagans for play extends the time that you can play by going forward. Buck for buck, Old Gods provides the single largest boost to the game.
2a. Legacy of Rome - Retinues.
2b. Sword of Islam - Opens up the Muslims for play, decadence helps keep the AI Muslims in check.
3. Sword of Abraham - Significantly expands play for Catholic nations. Enables Judaism.
4. Republic - Opens up Republics for play.
5. Sunset Invasion - Provides the Aztec invasion in the west to provide a challenge similar to what the Mongols provide in the east.

--


My favorite retinue trick was to tell them to move into an enemy's territory, then declare war the day before they arrive :smallamused:

That's a trick to make mercenaries more useful in later game. Hire them in preparation for the declaration of war and order them into the opponent's territory. Declare war sometime after they've started for the province. It doesn't need to be the day before, it just needs to sometime after the start but before the arrive. This lets the mercs act as a force that prevents the AI from raising levies in that province because the merc stack is likely larger than what the AI could raise in the province and even if it's smaller, the moral of the AI is going to be so low the mercs should be able to trounce a larger force. That reduces the overall stack the AI gets and your retinue stack may or may not be large enough to eradicate anything else the AI could muster.

[Artanis]

That's a trick to make mercenaries more useful in later game. Hire them in preparation for the declaration of war and order them into the opponent's territory. Declare war sometime after they've started for the province. It doesn't need to be the day before, it just needs to sometime after the start but before the arrive. This lets the mercs act as a force that prevents the AI from raising levies in that province because the merc stack is likely larger than what the AI could raise in the province and even if it's smaller, the moral of the AI is going to be so low the mercs should be able to trounce a larger force. That reduces the overall stack the AI gets and your retinue stack may or may not be large enough to eradicate anything else the AI could muster.
Huh. I always figured that Mercenaries counted as levies when it came to being allowed to declare war, so I never thought to try that.

[Talderas]

Huh. I always figured that Mercenaries counted as levies when it came to being allowed to declare war, so I never thought to try that.

Only raised levies prevent you from declaring war. You used to be able to declare war with mercenaries in provinces you didn't own.

[Starsign]

That's a trick to make mercenaries more useful in later game. Hire them in preparation for the declaration of war and order them into the opponent's territory. Declare war sometime after they've started for the province. It doesn't need to be the day before, it just needs to sometime after the start but before the arrive. This lets the mercs act as a force that prevents the AI from raising levies in that province because the merc stack is likely larger than what the AI could raise in the province and even if it's smaller, the moral of the AI is going to be so low the mercs should be able to trounce a larger force. That reduces the overall stack the AI gets and your retinue stack may or may not be large enough to eradicate anything else the AI could muster.


Huh. I always figured that Mercenaries counted as levies when it came to being allowed to declare war, so I never thought to try that.

I actually never tried that either. I knew you could keep retinues raised, but not mercenaries. Considering Mali has a really awful starting position, having soldiers ready to invade from the get-go is a huge boon. I'll keep that in mind. (having 18 gold a month means that I should be able to easily keep up in profit while paying for mercenaries)

And I'll probably need mercenaries since I've got an Adventurer from France coming my way. :smalleek:

[Talderas]

I actually never tried that either. I knew you could keep retinues raised, but not mercenaries.

I can see why people wouldn't. Mercenaries are expensive so they get ditched after a war is done and there isn't much incentive to hire the mercenary and eat possible maintenance costs.... aside from the having them start invading while you declare war....

[Flickerdart]

And I'll probably need mercenaries since I've got an Adventurer from France coming my way. :smalleek:
Park your Spymaster in his province, and drop assassins on his head until he's a smear on the pavement.

[Starsign]

I can see why people wouldn't. Mercenaries are expensive so they get ditched after a war is done and there isn't much incentive to hire the mercenary and eat possible maintenance costs.... aside from the having them start invading while you declare war....

Yeah, but I'll give it a try and see how it goes.


Park your Spymaster in his province, and drop assassins on his head until he's a smear on the pavement.

Well at 350 gold a pop, (prince of France after all) I don't think I'm dropping more than one, and that's if I have that much right now due to all the managing I'm doing.

Also I notice the 2.0.2 Beta patch is out for CK2. Plenty of changes (such as lowered event troops) with one I'm... less happy with. (West African Pagans now can't go past Low CA, what.)

[Flickerdart]

(West African Pagans now can't go past Low CA, what.)
Unreformed pagans are supposed to be capped at low crown authority.

[Starsign]

Unreformed pagans are supposed to be capped at low crown authority.

Actually I believe it refers to Reformed West African Pagans too as they already had that restriction when unreformed.

[Sanguine]

Well I was just crusading over on the opposite side of the map. Not really doing anything just sitting in a single province giving my sons and vassals the crusader trait. But because I was literally the only person to join I am now King of Finland. I don't want Finland. I was more than happy with my lands in Jerusalem and Syria. I don't need or want or want land in Europe, especially not Finland. Seriously the crusade target had like three christian neighbors, why did none of them join.

[tonberrian]

Well I was just crusading over on the opposite side of the map. Not really doing anything just sitting in a single province giving my sons and vassals the crusader trait. But because I was literally the only person to join I am now King of Finland. I don't want Finland. I was more than happy with my lands in Jerusalem and Syria. I don't need or want or want land in Europe, especially not Finland. Seriously the crusade target had like three christian neighbors, why did none of them join.

Never join a crusade you don't plan to win.

[Flickerdart]

Well I was just crusading over on the opposite side of the map. Not really doing anything just sitting in a single province giving my sons and vassals the crusader trait. But because I was literally the only person to join I am now King of Finland. I don't want Finland. I was more than happy with my lands in Jerusalem and Syria. I don't need or want or want land in Europe, especially not Finland. Seriously the crusade target had like three christian neighbors, why did none of them join.
Wait, you're a Christian king in Asia? Tell me more of this marvel - whenever I start on the bookmark with Jerusalem, I get roflstomped by every Muslim in the region within a week.

[JeminiZero]

You can either legitimize a bastard at birth or later by event if you've acknowledged him, as far as I knwo there's no way back from denouncing the child.
Problem is I don't know what happened at birth. This bastard was born to my heir while he was under AI control. Maybe he denounced him... oh well, I guess I'm stuck.

Never join a crusade you don't plan to win.
It is actually worth joining just for the Crusader Trait. My advice would be: Always join, but never FIGHT a crusade you don't plan to win. :smalltongue:

[Sanguine]

Wait, you're a Christian king in Asia? Tell me more of this marvel - whenever I start on the bookmark with Jerusalem, I get roflstomped by every Muslim in the region within a week.

I didn't actually start from a bookmark, I started from the 15th of July 1099, the earliest date with the Kingdom of Jerusalem. I don't know how the two starts compare, but this was my experience.

I lost a lot before I figured out how to survive, a lot. Almost immediately after you unpause the game both Caliphs will declare a Jihad for Jerusalem and the Pope will declare a Crusade for Andalusia. With just your levies and your vassals the Knights Hospitalier you could fight off either Jihad, but you can forget about fighting off both. And by the time you have enough piety to hire the Knights Templar they will inevitably be crusading in Andalusia. However the King of Jerusalem has a decision to vassalize the Knights Templar for 500 gold, which I didn't use the first several times because I had nowhere near that much money. However if you immediately borrow money from both the Templars and the Jews you'll have more then enough money. Then with both Holy Orders as your vassals you should be able to fight off both Jihads, and once you've done that surviving is pretty easy, especially if the Crusade for Andalusia succeeds, as then you won't be the only high priority Jihad target.



On the matter of Finland. I didn't fight in the Crusade, I just sat in a single province giving people the Crusader trait. The Pope won it all on his own, and since I was literally the only person to join I got the Kingdom.

[JeminiZero]

If you really don't want the land, can't you simply give it away? I vaguely remember you could gift entire Kingdoms to the Pope. Alternatively, just give the duchies to various Kinsmen (to boost Family prestige), and then grant them independence.

[Sanguine]

Yeah, I'm probably just going to give the Kingdom away to a younger son or distant kinsman. Maybe my secret bastard son, I mean my nephew, yes my nephew. This wasn't a huge deal, just a minor annoyance. I mostly just brought it up because it was so weird. I've never before seen a crusade where not even a single AI joined.

[Tehnar]

Well I was just crusading over on the opposite side of the map. Not really doing anything just sitting in a single province giving my sons and vassals the crusader trait. But because I was literally the only person to join I am now King of Finland. I don't want Finland. I was more than happy with my lands in Jerusalem and Syria. I don't need or want or want land in Europe, especially not Finland. Seriously the crusade target had like three christian neighbors, why did none of them join.

Give the title to someone and grant them independence. Spread your dynasty around a bit.

[Talderas]

Yeah, I'm probably just going to give the Kingdom away to a younger son or distant kinsman. Maybe my secret bastard son, I mean my nephew, yes my nephew. This wasn't a huge deal, just a minor annoyance. I mostly just brought it up because it was so weird. I've never before seen a crusade where not even a single AI joined.

So what you're saying is that this particular king of Jerusalem is into some of that Zoroastrian action?

[Sanguine]

So what you're saying is that this particular king of Jerusalem is into some of that Zoroastrian action?

Not so much no. He had an affair with his brothers wife which resulted in a child which his brother thought was his.

[JeminiZero]

So I've been running the King of Wales (starting as Count of Glamorgan) with a paint-the-map-your-dynasty approach. My usual tactic is to marry in the eldest princess to one of my non-heir princes, and then plot to kill all her brothers. I've also been scattering branches off by marrying male members off to Baroness and Countess and Duchess, and Princesses matrilineal to heirs outside their father's court (since the actual title holder will usually refuse) where available.

On one hand, good fences make for good neighbours: sticking to de-jure Wales, and expanding slowly into Ireland means that aside from host invasions and uprisings, nobody has tried attacking us.

On the other hand... SO MUCH WAR!

I managed to plant Kinsmen on the thrones of Navarra-Brittany, Castile-Leon, France-Aquitaine, Hungary and Norway. Then civil war breaks out ALL OVER THE MAP! There is virtually non-stop civil war in France-Aquitaine and Hungary.

And while I was busy with those two, Castile-Leon became just Castile as the Dukes of Leon revolted and wanted another queen instead... Ironically one of those Dukes was also a Kinsman, so he was opting to be ruled by another stranger instead of his distant cousin.

Norway was lost completely, when the Dukes rose up against the queen AND called the !@#$%^ HRE into the fight. Honestly, we might actually have stood a chance against the HRE if the rest of the dynasty wasn't trapped in civil wars, and was willing to support their Kinswoman for Norway (we have France-Aquitaine and half of Hispania on our side after all)... but that would have been one scary war with one third of western Europe going up against another third .

I also managed to place two Kinswomen as Duchesses in England, and one of them was 2nd in line to the throne, behind the only child of the current elderly queen. Needless to say, the child promptly dies in a suspicious accident, leaving my Kinswoman next in line.

What happens next is mind-boggling, half of England rises up in civil war to install a weak claimant on the throne. Despite benefitting from the current system and being slated to inherit it, BOTH my Kinswomen decides to join them, making it 3/4 of England! I may have to assassinate this claimant to end the war inconclusively, so that they don't overthrow the system, and don't wind up imprisoned.

I am also trying to figure out how to reinstate a Kinsman on the throne of Norway. The original ex-queen has passed on, and her two sons now have a Duchy each, and a weak claim on the throne. Any ideas? Is my only option waiting for her sons to start a civil war to place themselves on the throne, and then join in?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Maybe my secret bastard son, I mean my nephew, yes my nephew.

I got my daughter in law pregnant once. My son had no idea that the person he thought was his son was actually his half brother.

[Cristo Meyers]

I got my daughter in law pregnant once. My son had no idea that the person he thought was his son was actually his half brother.

My favorite so far was having a bastard son with the daughter of a rebel countess that my king's father had killed.

Kinda sad that the only time making a move actually worked rather than sending the prospective mistress running away screaming was with a woman who hated my guts.

[Flickerdart]

I got my daughter in law pregnant once. My son had no idea that the person he thought was his son was actually his half brother.
Does he inherit as though he was his son, or yours - and does the game label him as a son or grandson for you?

[Talderas]

Does he inherit as though he was his son, or yours

This cuckold bastard child would be considered an heir of the son and daughter-in-law until such time that the ruler acknowledged him as his son in which case he would become the heir of the ruler and daughter-in-law.

At least if I understand mechanics correctly.


does the game label him as a son or grandson for you?

Ruler + Daughter in Law = Son

I'm not going to attempt to comment on what they child would be labeled as if it was a ruler + ruler's child.

[Leecros]

My most amusing situation of that nature was when i was playing as the Duke of Brittany and he slept with the Countess of Lyon during a feast after her husband insulted the food. This was the same duke that went after his daughter at one point...although nothing ever came of that.



Lustful is such an amusing trait. :smallbiggrin:

[Talderas]

Lustful is such an amusing trait. :smallbiggrin:

Lustful + Attractive Ruler & Lustful + Attractive Daughter is not a good combination. :smallfurious:

[tonberrian]

Oh hey new patch. Thanks for lowering event troops.

[Cristo Meyers]

Oh hey new patch. Thanks for lowering event troops.

The newest version of the Game of Thrones mod is also supposed to come out today.

Anyone that ever read the books or watched the show and thought "you know, I could just stab Danaerys..."? Well, now you can get your chance!

[Sanguine]

The newest version of the Game of Thrones mod is also supposed to come out today.

I thought it was tomorrow.

[Cristo Meyers]

I thought it was tomorrow.

...

...it is. My sense of time is all screwed up from being in bed sick most of the weekend.

[Flickerdart]

This cuckold bastard child would be considered an heir of the son and daughter-in-law until such time that the ruler acknowledged him as his son in which case he would become the heir of the ruler and daughter-in-law.

At least if I understand mechanics correctly.



Ruler + Daughter in Law = Son

I'm not going to attempt to comment on what they child would be labeled as if it was a ruler + ruler's child.
So he's listed as your son, but inherits as your grandson? That seems like it would be confusing to someone who doesn't know he's a secret bastard.

[tonberrian]

From what I understand, unless the father realizes it, your bastards are for all intent and purposes the son of the other guy. If he does realize it, the child gains the Bastard trait, and you can choose to legitimize him or not. If you do, he becomes your dynasty, but otherwise he doesn't and can't inherit. I think.

[Leecros]

I thought it was tomorrow.

It's tomorrow somewhere in the world....:smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

Sons of Abraham can't go on sale soon enough for me. I just finished reading about someones...escapades...with one of the event trees.

Meet Sebdann, child of Satan (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?736028-From-Holy-Kingdom-to-Unholy-nightmare-Why-this-is-the-best-DLC-yet&)

I have to admit, I'm amused :smallbiggrin:


It's tomorrow somewhere in the world....:smallbiggrin:

I blame the Sudafed. Any drug that claims "causes drowsiness" and yet causes me to wake up every 3 hours is shifty in my book.

[Leecros]

Meet Sebdann, child of Satan (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?736028-From-Holy-Kingdom-to-Unholy-nightmare-Why-this-is-the-best-DLC-yet&)


Well, that would explain why one of my Crusader Kings II videos titled Demon Child shot up to my most viewed video shortly after the release of the Sons of Abraham expansion.

Sadly, there's likely a lot of disappointed people out there. Since all that happened was that i was talking about how creepy the Celtic Portrait for female children looks with her bright green eyes and stiff look compared to the more traditional portraits.

[JeminiZero]

Sons of Abraham can't go on sale soon enough for me. I just finished reading about someones...escapades...with one of the event trees.

Meet Sebdann, child of Satan (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?736028-From-Holy-Kingdom-to-Unholy-nightmare-Why-this-is-the-best-DLC-yet&)

I have to admit, I'm amused :smallbiggrin:
It does make me wonder though, could this event fire for the AI? It would be amusing to see the entire Karling Blob mysteriously die off when the Spawn of Satan appears in their midst, while you laugh at them from the relative safety of the British Isles.

A few years down the road though, the 3 witches are gonna come knocking on your front door.

[Cristo Meyers]

It does make me wonder though, could this event fire for the AI? It would be amusing to see the entire Karling Blob mysteriously die off when the Spawn of Satan appears in their midst, while you laugh at them from the relative safety of the British Isles.

A few years down the road though, the 3 witches are gonna come knocking on your front door.

I don't see why it wouldn't also fire for the AI. One of the flags, if I remember what I read (I kinda got caught up in a Jon Snow GoT AAR) checks for other cursed children in the world, not just your family.

God help you if it fires alongside the Jeanne D'arc event. That one also fired in the events just prior to the hellspawn I linked to. I don't know how it works exactly...all I know is at the end there was an Irish woman with somewhere around 121 Martial. :smalleek:

[Grif]

Man. That thread just got me excited again for CK2. :smallbiggrin:

[Talderas]

So he's listed as your son, but inherits as your grandson? That seems like it would be confusing to someone who doesn't know he's a secret bastard.

First of all, we're talking about a cuckold. That's a situation where the husband of a wife does not realize that the child she bore is not his. The husband of this situation believes the child to be his own and until other evidence surfaces the child is legally his.

In order to support this, there's three values that are required among three characters [your ruler (A), your son (cuckolded, B), your bastard (C)]. There's also the daughter-in-law (D) and your wife (E). Every character should have a value that is set with their parents. So B should have A and E set for parents while C has A and D set as parents.

Each character should have a list of values of children and whether such a child is legitimate. So A would have a list of B (legitimate) and C (illegitimate) while B would have a list of C (legitimate) for children. Basically, a child should be set as legitimate whenever a character's wife gives birth to a child. However the child would need to be flagged as illegitimate in order to legitimize the bastard.

[JeminiZero]

God help you if it fires alongside the Jeanne D'arc event. That one also fired in the events just prior to the hellspawn I linked to. I don't know how it works exactly...all I know is at the end there was an Irish woman with somewhere around 121 Martial. :smalleek:
Actually, I imagine having the Spawn of Satan rise up in a neighbouring territory, who proceeds to invade you, and you getting Jeanne D'arc in response would make an interesting story (since they are separate event chains). The Three Witches vs the Maid of Oriel. :smallbiggrin:

[Artanis]

121 Martial
:smalleek:

That...how...what...

:smalleek:

[Cristo Meyers]

:smalleek:

That...how...what...

:smalleek:

That was pretty much my reaction too. Near as I can tell your personal Jeanne D'arc starts of with a high martial and the ability to lead armies and her martial only increases as she gets older. The one in the story I linked I think started at 30-something, next I saw it at 99, and was at around 121 when she died.

[JeminiZero]

So here is a random story from my Kingdom of Wales paint-the-map-your-dynasty game. I married my designated heir (who was a genius) to the daughter of some Swedish Duke. They has a bunch of children, but only the first one inherited genius... but he was also inbred as well. (I have no idea WHY, I make it a point to practice outbreeding, that was the first time I was marrying in folk from Sweden. Its not like this particular pairing had bad genetics or anything since ONLY the first child was inbred... AND genius).

Anyway, it came to pass that I found out this inbred genius kid was next in line for the Duchy of Östergötland, Västergötland and Novogrod, should the current King of Sweden die without any children... Shortly thereafter, the King of Sweden died in a suspicious accident, and my inbred genius grandkid went off to assume control of his duchies.

However, just as the boy hit 16, he "died an inbred freak", which is to say, presumably from natural causes. Surprisingly enough, the duchies passed on to my designated heir who joined the Kingdom of Sweden... taking two of my counties along with him.

Anyway, I decide to leave things be for now, since the Kingdom of Wales would pass to him when my current character died, and I would take control of him and regain my counties. So I kept playing until King Deiniol passed on. He died as he had lived: in the middle of yet ANOTHER war bailing out a family dynasty Kingdom, this time the Kingdom of Castile from an Almoravid invasion.

Anyway, when I assumed control of my heir, I found he was waging de jure wars to claim one of the counties (Torzhok) in Novogrod which was not yet his vassal. This particular county was owned by the Teutonic Order, so it wasn't exactly a pushover. But strangely enough, we were ALSO hostile with the Kingdom of Sweden, apparently because the King has ALSO launched a war to claim that same county.

Thinking nothing much of it at the time, I fought it out with both the Teutonic Order and the Kingdom of Sweden, until I had crushed the order underfoot, and usurped the county of Torzhok. But after that was concluded, the war with the Kingdom of Sweden was still ongoing. I decided to check what exactly was going on.

I digged a little more and apparently the King of Sweden had launched his war, in order to claim Torzhok FOR my heir. They were presumably allies until my previous King of Wales died, and my heir suddenly became independent. If I won, the county would of course remain mine. But checking terms for peace, if I surrendered, since the King originally launched his war to gain the county for my current character, I would keep the county ANYWAY.

Since further conflict made no sense, I promptly surrendered to save both of us any further trouble.

[Grif]

Aha. Just read the latest patch.

Looks like they rebalanced the event troops. Sweet. Will look to getting the Sons of Abraham this Christmas and restart a new CK2 campaign. Probably one of the minor German counts under the Karlings (or 1066 start).

[Castaras]

Ohai guys!

I'm busy in a game with my boyfriend. He's the King of England, I'm the King of Wales. However, we're wanting to consolidate our kingdoms together so we can rule britannia.

I'm pretty sure, if we can get the majority of the isles under our rule, we can make an Emperor title and have the other be a vassal. Can any of you confirm this to be the case? Also, is there a way of doing a similar such thing sooner?

[Narkis]

Ohai guys!

I'm busy in a game with my boyfriend. He's the King of England, I'm the King of Wales. However, we're wanting to consolidate our kingdoms together so we can rule britannia.

I'm pretty sure, if we can get the majority of the isles under our rule, we can make an Emperor title and have the other be a vassal. Can any of you confirm this to be the case? Also, is there a way of doing a similar such thing sooner?

That's right. If you click on "find title" below the minimap and search for Britannia, it'll show you what exactly the requirements are. The only other potentially faster way is to usurp an already existing Emperor title, but that approach has issues of its own.

[OrcusMcP]

Ohai guys!

I'm busy in a game with my boyfriend. He's the King of England, I'm the King of Wales. However, we're wanting to consolidate our kingdoms together so we can rule britannia.

I'm pretty sure, if we can get the majority of the isles under our rule, we can make an Emperor title and have the other be a vassal. Can any of you confirm this to be the case? Also, is there a way of doing a similar such thing sooner?

Well, are you and he both kings and married to each other? If so, then your kid/heir should have territory to create the title.

Or is it that one of you can create and the other can't? The simpler solution may be that one of you (likely your boyfriend with England) create the empire of Brittania (likely by conquering Scotland and some of Ireland) and then offering vassalization to the lesser one.

[Flickerdart]

Ohai guys!

I'm busy in a game with my boyfriend. He's the King of England, I'm the King of Wales. However, we're wanting to consolidate our kingdoms together so we can rule britannia.

I'm pretty sure, if we can get the majority of the isles under our rule, we can make an Emperor title and have the other be a vassal. Can any of you confirm this to be the case? Also, is there a way of doing a similar such thing sooner?
A king cannot vassalize another king. You also need two or more kingdoms to create an empire. The easiest way would be to intermarry your families until an heir would inherit either the country or a claim on it, and then the rest of pretty straightforward.

[JeminiZero]

Can any of you confirm this to be the case? Also, is there a way of doing a similar such thing sooner?
I'm not sure if console works in multiplayer games. If it does, you can cheat to give one of you the Empire title, then the other can swear fealty to him. That would be the quickest way IF console worked.

[HamHam]

So I decided I wanted to try playing CKII -> EUIV game, and thus wanted to do one of the countries you can only get by converting. Israel was tempting but I ended up having to go with Rome because a real Roman Empire running around into the modern day is just too awesome.

So I'm playing Byzantium, using the Old Gods 800s start and I was making alliances with my neighbors by marriage as usual but then something crazy happened. My first heir had been betrothed to a Princes from Italy at the very start of the game, and now he was Emperor (my first having died early in the starting war with the Muslims) after a Regency that started when he was 0 years old, and suddenly my infant son has a duchy in Italy. And dragged me into a war of independence against Italy. But then the King of Italy died, and through some chain of events I still don't get my son (who was seriously still only like 5 at this point) became King of Italy.

And then he died.

Meaning I inherited Italy (and a big chunk of Germany). Only problem was that I now had literally no heir to my dynasty, and if I died it all went to some nephew in Bulgaria.

Luckily I have managed to get an heir since, but I'm gonna need to get busy so there are some backups.

[Flickerdart]

Meaning I inherited Italy (and a big chunk of Germany). Only problem was that I now had literally no heir to my dynasty, and if I died it all went to some nephew in Bulgaria.

Luckily I have managed to get an heir since, but I'm gonna need to get busy so there are some backups.
Watch out for Karlings. They're gonna want that land back.

[IthilanorStPete]

So I decided I wanted to try playing CKII -> EUIV game, and thus wanted to do one of the countries you can only get by converting. Israel was tempting but I ended up having to go with Rome because a real Roman Empire running around into the modern day is just too awesome.

I'm going to do that for my first big 867-1821 game once I get Sons of Abraham, though I'm thinking of starting as a low-level Catholic nobleman.

[Leecros]

I wish they set up some way to add some more powerful enemies into a CKII -> EUIV game. By the time you go from the 800's all the way to the 1400's you're probably the most powerful family in Europe + The Middle East + N. Africa. Then it's usually just a task of running around and kicking enemies that get in your way and while there's a chance of being crushed by coalitions, it probably won't happen.

In my opinion, that's one of the few actual advantages to the Sunset Invasion. With the Sunset Invasion you'll have a couple of powerful enemies over in the Americas with the potential to become very powerful in certain situations...The drawback though...It's across the ocean.

There isn't really a viable solution outside of simulating the whole Old World or taking some considerations into account to keep the EUIV game challenging. Such as large empires rising in India and Asia with better tech and that just sounds like a way to get more flak about aehistoricality, like they got with Sunset Invasion. Sadly, it's just a thing one has to live with unless you feel like doing a lot of modding(something i'm too lazy to do :smalltongue:)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I wish they set up some way to add some more powerful enemies into a CKII -> EUIV game. By the time you go from the 800's all the way to the 1400's you're probably the most powerful family in Europe + The Middle East + N. Africa.

Only if you play to become powerful. My style of play works perfectly, only expanding when my character would want to expand. All roleplay-y. By the time I get to the endgame, any EEU IV nation will be a proper challenge, and I play the same way in all my PI games so it works out.

[Leecros]

Only if you play to become powerful. My style of play works perfectly, only expanding when my character would want to expand. All roleplay-y. By the time I get to the endgame, any EEU IV nation will be a proper challenge, and I play the same way in all my PI games so it works out.

Well, part of it is really a flaw with the game itself as well. It's typically quite easy to gain power in Crusader Kings II as long as you start with an established religion. It's very easy to inherit a kingdom as even a count. Simply marry your son to a daughter of the king(they usually won't have a problem with it unless they're the heir or within 1 or 2 steps of it. Especially if it's the kingdom you're in). Then assassinate away until she's the rightful heir. If you're dealing with the Karling Blob, then marry your daughter matrilineally and do the same thing. Since the Karlings have Agnatic. In all reality intrigue shouldn't be THAT easy to pull off. One shouldn't be able to easily murder entire families if you have the gold, intrigue, and/or diplomacy. On top of that, a King would never...unless heavily pressed...marry their son or daughter into a count's family. There's a reason incest was so prevalent amongst royal families and it was for this very reason; to keep titles and claims within the family. However, the AI doesn't do interfamily marriages too well and is too stupid to take advantage of the players' gung-ho marriage strategies. The game tries, it really does... With it's "---- Would prefer to marry Xlinealy" and "----Desires Better Alliance", but the AI doesn't always handle that where it should. Personally i think a base "--Prince/Princess or Child of a ruler" would be a good start to preventing players from taking advantage of the AI. That and make intrigue a bit more complicated. Perhaps some sort of malus if you assassinate from a specific family line too much. For example: Assassinate Prince A will make assassinating Prince B harder and so on and so forth until the family is effectively on high-alert for 10 or 20 years due to so many deaths.

Woah...where did that rage/rant come from? I am the same guy who has over 700 hours in Crusader Kings II and think it's an awesome game...right? ....Yes?
Oh wait, it's because of that silly Hellenic game that's making me rage against every flaw i see in the game...


Playing the Hellenics is harrd everybody...Especially when the game or your own ignorance or simply forgetting certain mechanics work against you...

[Flickerdart]

Making assassinations harder would be more realistic, but not anywhere near as fun.

[Talderas]

Making assassinations harder would be more realistic, but not anywhere near as fun.

For fun... do an Old Gods start.

Next, enable character IDs on mouseover of portrait.

Then open the Karling dynasty window.

Issue the command kill ###### for every living member in the dynasty.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Again, that is only applicable if you DO those. My Count is a kind virtuous man who is loyal to his liege. So I play him like that. A few generations of loyal pacifists make an interesting game. You CAN go from count to emperor in 3 generations, but that's only if you play the game, rather than play the character. Had a character who's liege was replaced by a stronger family, but he LIKED the old king, and tried to reinstate the old dynasty. Would have made more game sense to take it for myself when I had the chance, but it made more character sense to stay loyal to the old king. More interesting story too.

[Flickerdart]

That's not nearly as satisfying as building your own empire to dwarf theirs, systematically absorbing every Karling kingdom by pressing random claims, usurping the titles, and then stamping the family out of existence.

[Castaras]

That's not nearly as satisfying as building your own empire to dwarf theirs, systematically absorbing every Karling kingdom by pressing random claims, usurping the titles, and then stamping the family out of existence.

Depends on the style of play. I'm bored already of trying to just take everything. After I get to the stage where I'm just marching on everyone it gets boring. Most fun parts are succession when I get claimants getting angry.

I need to try Gwyn's suggestion, sounds like lots of fun. :smallbiggrin:

[OrcusMcP]

It is a MASSIVE exercise in restraint to try playing a loyal vassal, but as with everything in CK2 it is just as fun.

[Leecros]

That's not nearly as satisfying as building your own empire to dwarf theirs, systematically absorbing every Karling kingdom by pressing random claims, usurping the titles, and then stamping the family out of existence.

There's certainly various styles to play and i, myself do attempt to roleplay...a little bit... It makes things interesting from time to time. For example i got the Gate of Hell event chain and actually sacrificed my firstborn son Daughter, because that was at least in my mind, what a pagan would do.

Unfortunately it's quite a difficult thing to do it constantly when every character, vassal, and lowborn is trying to do everything they can to take your land away. They're constantly trying to fabricate claims, plotting murders, organizing factions, and all such things in an attempt for themselves to become more powerful.

[HamHam]

So things were going great, I was steadily making my way toward the Holy Land when the Emperor dies, causing half the subservient kingdoms to go to one son, and the other half to the other. So the new Emperor ends up with Greece and the eastern provinces, and his brother gets Italy. And some dude who I think was an uncle or something got Lotharingia (because it was Seniority). It was fine at first, he was able to complete the conquest of Jerusalem (only Alexandria left to go before the Schism can be repaired). But during the Crusade certain parties had begun to plot to put the brother on the throne instead. And as soon as it ended, the Count of Beirut (seriously, what?) made their demand that the King of Italy be made Byzantine Emperor.

The King of Lotharingia remained loyal, but various Dukes and Counts throughout the Holy Land, Anatolia, Greece, and other places joined the rebellion (in addition to most of Italy). With the Imperial Army still in Jerusalem, the Emperor had to call on the Varangian Guard (who are stupid broken by the way, costing half as much as mercenary companies half their size) and his home levies to start attacking the rebels in Greece. The aforementioned Army meanwhile went to work putting down the belligerents in the Holy Land.

A force was raised in Lotharingia as well, but was soon routed by the more numerous Italian forces.

But then a bunch of Franks and others demanded independence, which the Emperor was forced to grant as the war of succession required his full focus.

Then the King of Lotharingia died, and the title passed to the King of Italy, uniting them in rebellion.

And then the Emperor died, mysteriously, and his son was forced to take over the war against his uncle.

Loyalist forces had managed to lock down the Holy Land, and were on their way to doing the same in Anatolia. The rebels meanwhile were slowly taking provinces in Savoy and central Italy. This war would more than likely last a long time. But the damn heavens had sensed weakness and after rolling over many of the rebellious vassals who now lacked the protection of the Empire, they straight up declared a Jihad to retake Armenia. The land would almost certainly end up being sacrificed to the infidel horde as no troops could be spared.

Then the King of Italy died from some conveniently poisonous wine, ending the war so that all the soldiers of the Empire can be turned toward repelling the invasion.

I am left with a nephew on the throne of Italy though who may need to meet the same fate as his father sooner rather than later.

[tonberrian]

So on a terrible whim, I've modded all the muslim religions to have a maximum of 40 wives.

[Leecros]

So on a terrible whim, I've modded all the muslim religions to have a maximum of 40 wives.

I estimate the muslim world disintegrating into various factions sometime between 1 and 100 years from the time you did that...

[Artanis]

So on a terrible whim, I've modded all the muslim religions to have a maximum of 40 wives.
I forsee a LOT of decadence revolts.

[HamHam]

In the Glorious Year of Our Lord 964 the Roman Empire has been reborn! All hail Emperor Leon VII the Glorious!

The religious situation is getting kind of weird. Ireland and Poland are now the only major Catholic hold outs since I repaired the Schism, but Hungary not only went Tengri, it has now created Reformed Tengri and have their own Holy Order. It has also blobbed over all of what would be Crimea. If they absorb Cumania this could get interesting.

Meanwhile the Norse have taken over Scotland and made Norway into a Kingdom and taken a big chunk out of England. Also Flanders apparently. And Denmark.

The Slavs aren't doing bad for themselves either.

Islam on the other hand is losing everywhere it seems.

Politically, France has pretty much unified it's territory, Asturias is slowly taking over Spain, the eastern German duches are a mess of independent states, with Bavaria as the largest.

Poland is currently ruled by an old queen... who has a Slavic Pagan heir who isn't even a Piast. Well, that should turn out interestingly.

I still have lots of the Mediterranean I need to retake. And apparently a rising Pagan Hungarian empire to deal with in the north.

[IthilanorStPete]

In the Glorious Year of Our Lord 964 the Roman Empire has been reborn! All hail Emperor Leon VII the Glorious!

The religious situation is getting kind of weird. Ireland and Poland are now the only major Catholic hold outs since I repaired the Schism, but Hungary not only went Tengri, it has now created Reformed Tengri and have their own Holy Order. It has also blobbed over all of what would be Crimea. If they absorb Cumania this could get interesting.

Meanwhile the Norse have taken over Scotland and made Norway into a Kingdom and taken a big chunk out of England. Also Flanders apparently. And Denmark.

The Slavs aren't doing bad for themselves either.

Islam on the other hand is losing everywhere it seems.

Politically, France has pretty much unified it's territory, Asturias is slowly taking over Spain, the eastern German duches are a mess of independent states, with Bavaria as the largest.

Poland is currently ruled by an old queen... who has a Slavic Pagan heir who isn't even a Piast. Well, that should turn out interestingly.

I still have lots of the Mediterranean I need to retake. And apparently a rising Pagan Hungarian empire to deal with in the north.

Sounds like a pretty interesting game; I'd love to see some screenshots of the map. You certainly were able to reform the Empire quickly, but the ERE starts in a strong position in 867.


Oh, and in perhaps the funniest bit of historical alteration I granted Venice to a bunch of Jews.

EDIT: Hah! Excellent.

[HamHam]

Oh, and in perhaps the funniest bit of historical alteration I granted Venice to a bunch of Jews.

EDIT:

SCREENSHOTS!

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_1.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_1.png.html)

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_2.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_2.png.html)

The most annoying thing so far about this I've discovered is that their stupid heathen religion lets them send raiders into my country without declaring war and it is super annoying.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_4.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_4.png.html)
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_3.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_3.png.html)

Seriously, you have like three different religions at war over it. And the Orthodox and Catholics in the south are further divided into a bunch of minor kingdoms.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_5.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_5.png.html)

But the Emperor decided to dedicate his twilight years to consolidating Imperial territory, through diplomacy or war as needed. So my 10k man doomstack of 7k retinues and 3k Vikings (who again I only have to pay 3 gold a month for) just went around declaring war on any one or two county minors I couldn't persuade with gifts of money. A convenient civil war in France also helped.

He also had this bizarre plan after his wife died to assassinate his lover's (the Duchess of Athens) husband so he could marry her, but then after she turned him down and married some other dude. So he decided to marry himself a 17 year old Princess of Italy.

It was a very nice wedding.

Immediately after which he keeled over dead of a broken heart. Or possibly typhoid.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/HamHamJ/ck2_6.png (http://s438.photobucket.com/user/HamHamJ/media/ck2_6.png.html)

Admittedly that doesn't help much with all the vassals that immediately want to revolt.

[Rockphed]

It is a MASSIVE exercise in restraint to try playing a loyal vassal, but as with everything in CK2 it is just as fun.

I find playing a vassal much more rewarding than playing an independent Lord.

[Flickerdart]

I find playing a vassal much more rewarding than playing an independent Lord.
I can think of nothing less exciting. In a game where you sit around and wait for something to happen, why would you want to restrict the number of things you can do?

[Rockphed]

I can think of nothing less exciting. In a game where you sit around and wait for something to happen, why would you want to restrict the number of things you can do?

Is the king of bohemia restricted more or less than an independent count? I would rather be the king of bohemia than the holy Roman emperor, though not by much. Which is not to say that becoming Lord of all I survey is not rewarding, just that once I attain the purple things get lots more complicated for not a lot more reward. Also, it can be nice to be able to attack enemies without fear that I will get ganged up on the next time I show weakness.

[Leecros]

I can think of nothing less exciting. In a game where you sit around and wait for something to happen, why would you want to restrict the number of things you can do?

I dunno, i rather liked my one King of Arabia game where i wore the crowns of Arabia, Syria, Persia, and Egypt. I was still a vassal to the emperor though...But the emperor couldn't really do anything, but as much as i allowed him to. It was an interesting change of pace.