Grappling and Touch Spells

[Bellberith]

What are the rules on this?

ive seen other threads but none answered my core question. Which is does the person/people you are grappling with get AoO when you cast a touch spell while grappling.

Also are they denied their dex bonus to touch AC?

Do special abilities such as Dread necro special touches work aswell? also do they incur AoO?

(the question is both for the person you are grappling and others around)

Last one.... Will a previously charged touch spell be activated upon entering a grapple?

[Bellberith]

I really need to know the answer! =( i tried to do some research but just cant find it.

[Crake]

Grappling opponents do not provoke, and thus cannot take attacks of opportunity. Dexterity is not denied to opponents in a grapple, only to those outside of the grapple. Note that you cannot cast a spell with somatic components while grappling, only one with verbal components which you have material components already in hand for, and even that requires a concentration check equal to 20+spell level.

Supernatural abilities, such as the dread necromancer's touch never provoke.

Spells for which you hold the charge still need to be expended by making a touch attack in a grapple, which can be done by taking a normal attack roll at -4.

[Allanimal]

Sorry I don't have the answers right off, but these questions sounds like candidates for the (3.5 or pathfinder, as appropriate) simple rules questions threads. You will get a pretty quick response there, in general.

[Norin]

What are the rules on this?

ive seen other threads but none answered my core question. Which is does the person/people you are grappling with get AoO when you cast a touch spell while grappling.
Casting while in a grapple:

Cast a Spell

You can attempt to cast a spell while grappling or even while pinned (see below), provided its casting time is no more than 1 standard action, it has no somatic component, and you have in hand any material components or focuses you might need. Any spell that requires precise and careful action is impossible to cast while grappling or being pinned. If the spell is one that you can cast while grappling, you must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell. You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell.
I can not see anything about provoking AoO while trying to cast here.

Remember that getting your material components will make it all take longer:


Retrieve a Spell Component

You can produce a spell component from your pouch while grappling by using a full-round action. Doing so does not require a successful grapple check.




Also are they denied their dex bonus to touch AC?


Here:


You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)
So they get dex to ac agains you in the grapple, but not against anyone not engaged in the grapple.



Do special abilities such as Dread necro special touches work aswell? also do they incur AoO?

(the question is both for the person you are grappling and others around)

All of DN's touch attacks are SU, so i assume they can be used while in a grapple, yes. I'm not 100% positive though.




Last one.... Will a previously charged touch spell be activated upon entering a grapple?

Holding a charge of a touch spell and ending up in a grapple:



Holding the Charge

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Have a look at my emphasis there.

I would say maybe the spell goes off if you grapple. I mean, how would you grapple without touching your opponent?

[Curmudgeon]

I would say maybe the spell goes off if you grapple. I mean, how would you grapple without touching your opponent?
It could if an accidental discharge were possible for the spell. However, if it's a touch attack spell, it can only discharge with a successful attack roll. If you're grappling, that's the Attack Your Opponent option.

[Bellberith]

Thank you for the info guys.

It would make sense that the spell would automatically go off in a grapple but would that mean that theoretically you can auto hit on all touch spells by initiating a grapple with your opponent? that would seem a little broken balance wise even though it is correct logically.

[Norin]

Thank you for the info guys.

It would make sense that the spell would automatically go off in a grapple but would that mean that theoretically you can auto hit on all touch spells by initiating a grapple with your opponent? that would seem a little broken balance wise even though it is correct logically.

Nah, I would listen to Curmudgeon. That free dischage seems a bit silly when i think of it... :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Vukodlak]

Nah, I would listen to Curmudgeon. That free dischage seems a bit silly when i think of it... :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise it be discharging into the ground because your standing on it. To save on migraine medication I presume touch spells are delivered by your hand.

[Norin]

Otherwise it be discharging into the ground because your standing on it. To save on migraine medication I presume touch spells are delivered by your hand.

The part i pointed out in the text, how or when would you rule that to apply?

Not saying you are wrong, and i do agree, but the text is there for a reason.
The question is, what would it apply to?

I'm just curious. :smallsmile:

[Lord Vukodlak]

The part i pointed out in the text, how or when would you rule that to apply?

Not saying you are wrong, and i do agree, but the text is there for a reason.
The question is, what would it apply to?

I'm just curious. :smallsmile:

For when you touch someone with your hand obviously. So if your holding the charge on inflict critical wounds giving someone a hand up is probably a bad idea.

If I said "He touched my shoulder." Everyone would just assume he used his hand not his foot or stomach.

[Curmudgeon]

If I said "He touched my shoulder." Everyone would just assume he used his hand not his foot or stomach.
The problem is that the rules very explicitly state you can deliver a touch attack spell charge with a successful unarmed attack like a Snap Kick. There's nothing special about your hand for the purpose; your whole body is charged when you cast the spell.

[Bellberith]

id assume you ARE touching your opponent in some way with atleast 1 or more of your appendages. Most likely hands.

But that would be pretty OP to have a grapple focused character that casted touch spells and inititated a grapple to auto hit with all touch spells cast.

Also the somatic component on touch spells.... wouldnt that just be reaching for the person? and the verbal would be activating it? or are you like waving your hand and posing like a power ranger for the magic to work.

[TuggyNE]

Thank you for the info guys.

It would make sense that the spell would automatically go off in a grapple but would that mean that theoretically you can auto hit on all touch spells by initiating a grapple with your opponent? that would seem a little broken balance wise even though it is correct logically.

It's not free. You still have to make (wait for it) a melee touch attack to start grappling.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Your whole body is charged when you cast the spell.

If that was true the spell would discharge when someone touched you, or when you walked across the ground but it doesn't.

[Curmudgeon]

If that was true the spell would discharge when someone touched you, or when you walked across the ground but it doesn't.
You apparently missed the point: touch spells which work on willing targets can be accidentally discharged on any valid target. (The ground just doesn't happen to be a valid target for a lot of spells.) However, touch attack spells can only be discharged with a successful attack roll.