how a druid nerfs themself (3.x)

[Somensjev]

ok, i'm gonna be in a campaign soon, and i'm considering playing a druid, but, i'm the only experienced player (including the DM) so i was wondering, what are some fun ways to nerf myself?

(i thought of VoP, then remembered how few items a druid needs)

any help would be appreciated (i have no info about the character, except stats, and class)

[Demonic_Spoon]

ok, i'm gonna be in a campaign soon, and i'm considering playing a druid, but, i'm the only experienced player (including the DM) so i was wondering, what are some fun ways to nerf myself?

(i thought of VoP, then remembered how few items a druid needs)

any help would be appreciated (i have no info about the character, except stats, and class)

Be an Industrialist.

[ArqArturo]

Grab toughness at every feat level, and only raise Charisma.

[Somensjev]

Be an Industrialist.

no idea what you mean, i shouldn't be on this forum at 3:30 in the morning


Grab toughness at every feat level, and only raise Charisma.

perfect, now, what to do with that silly wildshape

[Fable Wright]

1. Limit Wildshape somehow. Either don't take Natural Spell, or only take utility forms like birds for flight and rats for scouting, or both.

2. Tone down your animal companion. Get a really big one with one attack per round. Pathfinder's Ankylosaurus is good for this. Then just have it Bull Rush people around, let people ride on it into a fight, and occasionally hit someone hard.

3. Subpar spell selection. Pick spells that look cool that you've never used before on the Druid spell list and see how well they do. Prepare half your spells as Cure spells and status removing conditions, with only a few battlefield control spells.

[Somensjev]

1. Limit Wildshape somehow. Either don't take Natural Spell, or only take utility forms like birds for flight and rats for scouting, or both.

2. Tone down your animal companion. Get a really big one with one attack per round. Pathfinder's Ankylosaurus is good for this. Then just have it Bull Rush people around, let people ride on it into a fight, and occasionally hit someone hard.

3. Subpar spell selection. Pick spells that look cool that you've never used before on the Druid spell list and see how well they do. Prepare half your spells as Cure spells and status removing conditions, with only a few battlefield control spells.

1. that's pretty much what i was gonna do
2. i've only ever really seen the wolf animal companion in combat, so not sure what's weak or not (not sure if pathfinder stuff is allowed)
3. never played a druid before, so should i just choose fun looking spells? or would i be too overpowered, and would have to go out of my way to find bad spells

(by the way, we start at lvl 7 and i rolled my stats (same ones i've been using for the past few threads))

[Kuulvheysoon]

Drop out of druid at 5th level and start taking Blighter levels?

[ArqArturo]

Drop out of druid at 5th level and start taking Blighter levels?

That is just cruel :smalltongue:.

[Somensjev]

That is just cruel :smalltongue:.

why is that so bad? :smallconfused:

[13_CBS]

Well, thanks to the sheer variety and power of their abilities, Druids can do the following well:

Combat (both Melee and Battlefield Control)

Stealth/Scout (shapeshift into something innocuous and/or tiny, sneak around/be an eagle, spot stuff)

Perhaps you could nerf yourself by focusing on one of the two, instead of blowing everyone else out of the water by rocking both roles? Forgoing Natural Spell, as others have said, will help with this.

[PersonMan]

why is that so bad? :smallconfused:

You lose everything (or at least your spellcasting) from the past 5 levels and become more or less useless for at least 1-2 levels, before your Blighter spellcasting makes you semi-helpful again.

[Somensjev]

You lose everything (or at least your spellcasting) from the past 5 levels and become more or less useless for at least 1-2 levels, before your Blighter spellcasting makes you semi-helpful again.

honestly, i'd probably still be the best character, and there's a full wizard playing :smallsigh:

[Demonic_Spoon]

no idea what you mean, i shouldn't be on this forum at 3:30 in the morning



why is that so bad? :smallconfused:
I don't think I can make it clearer than this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOAETOdo2c0)


Ex-Druids

A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies).

Become a Language Teacher

[gooddragon1]

-Don't summon more than 1 monster per battle.
-Don't use wildshape forms with more than 20 in a stat.
-Keep your animal companion set to wolf.
-Use major buff spells like animal growth only for big boss battles and life or death situations.

Also: Business Cat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNhycX0XCJ0)

[RaviStrife]

Lol....that is perhaps the best ue of this video I've ever seen.

[Somensjev]

I don't think I can make it clearer than this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOAETOdo2c0)



Become a Language Teacher

... i want to do this... :smallamused:

[Twilightwyrm]

Take the Spontaneous Rejuvenation and Shapeshift ACFs from the Player's Handbook Book II. Alternatively, take the Aspect of the Dragon from Dragon Magic, or Aspect of Nature ACF from Unearthed Arcana. Taking these will give you better in-combat healing (which is fairly suboptimal, but which your other party members will appreciate), and more limited versatility in "wildshape". Taking the Elemental Companion ACF, so you have a useful, but less overwhelmingly powerful companion. At this point it is a simple matter of preparing helpful, but not super potent spells, in the same way that a Wizard attempting the same thing would.

[Grod_The_Giant]

For an actually-valid option, take the Shapeshift ACF from the PHB 2. You trade your animal companion and wild shape for a more limited form of shapeshifting-- gaining specified stat boosts, natural weapons, and so on-- usable at-will as a swift action. It's fun, less complicated to keep track of, significantly less powerful, and still thematic. If you miss having a companion, you can get back a weaker version by taking the Wild Cohort feat. (Google it; it's from a web enhancement).

You can also take the Spontaneous Divine Caster option from Unearthed Arcana (also available on the SRD), to turn yourself into... well... a spontaneous caster. That drops you a tier right there.

Take both, avoid the most broken spells, and you should be fine.

EDIT: Oh, and take Spontaneous Rejuvenation (PHB 2) and avoid summon spells.

[Kuulvheysoon]

For an actually-valid option, take the Shapeshift ACF from the PHB 2. You trade your animal companion and wild shape for a more limited form of shapeshifting-- gaining specified stat boosts, natural weapons, and so on-- usable at-will as a swift action. It's fun, less complicated to keep track of, significantly less powerful, and still thematic. If you miss having a companion, you can get back a weaker version by taking the Wild Cohort feat. (Google it; it's from a web enhancement)

As a bonus, Natural Spell specifically doesn't work with Shapeshift Druids.

[Coidzor]

Be a shapeshift variant Druid. Lose animal companion and wild shape in exchange for a weak buff which makes you unable to cast.

Trade away wildshape for some monk and ranger bonuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid)

Lose Animal Companion and spontaneous summoning and gain rage and fast movement. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) Which also prevents casting while you do it.

Get rid of features that would make a T3 or T4 class on their own and replace them with abilities from T4 and T5 classes.


no idea what you mean, i shouldn't be on this forum at 3:30 in the morning

Cease to revere nature and you lose casting and all druid class features and become an ex-druid. Wear metal armor and you lose casting and some/all class features for 24 hours or so.


2. i've only ever really seen the wolf animal companion in combat, so not sure what's weak or not (not sure if pathfinder stuff is allowed)
3. never played a druid before, so should i just choose fun looking spells? or would i be too overpowered, and would have to go out of my way to find bad spells

Wolf is one of the better ones. At low levels.

Depends on how badly the other players play and how badly the other characters are built.


Wild Cohort reference link for earlier. (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) It's fairly nifty.

[sonofzeal]

- Don't dump physical scores. Design your character without Wildshape in mind.

- Don't use any of the workarounds to get armor (or equivalent, like the "Luminous Armor" spell) in wildshape. This alone prevents you from stealing the show there, since you'll be far more fragile than the Fighter.

- Buff allies before yourself.

- Keep your Animal Companion off of the base list.

[Tvtyrant]

You could always play it like I played my first Druid; as a lancer riding the fury into battle. Halfling druid with a riding dog while wielding a lance, then a Deinonychus or Tiger (exotic saddle.) Then move up to megaraptor or smilodon, and then dire tiger or tyrannosaurus, and finally horrid dire tiger.

Other possibilities are allosaurus instead of Megaraptor, and fleshraker instead of any of them (it is that good.)

Prep healing spells and hit them with the lance and use pouncing mount. If you wanted to be really iconic but low power you could go zen archery tiger rider, shooting full attacks at a distance and letting your mount deal with melee.

[joebobjoe]

Now you see I am also building a similar character. Going for changeling druid who will take both substitutions from PH2 and intentionally limiting myself to a portion of the spell list. However my character's main plan for high levels is to take a single level of Warshaper from Complete Warrior and use that and his at will limitless duration shapeshifting to turn into a ball of pain and death from sprouting a theoretically limitless number of natural weapons each as a move action (plan on going around pretending to be a dragon). Anyone got any suggestions for feats? I have the progression mostly figured out but have no clue what to do with feats. Effectively I want my character to be able to imitate dragons decently while not being dragon blooded. Planning on trying to see how far I can get as the combat monster of the party with a D8 hit die and a medium BaB.

[Spore]

Do not nerf yourself. But focus on buffing your party, control the environment together with the DM. Spread your strengths out. Make him adaptable.

[Coidzor]

Do not nerf yourself. But focus on buffing your party, control the environment together with the DM. Spread your strengths out. Make him adaptable.

And then there's that. Playing more as a buffer/Druidic GOD (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1570.0)

[Xerlith]

Get Druidic Avenger variant to lose Animal Companion... Then grab this.


Gain
Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger).

Lose
Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions).

[Captnq]

You want Self Nerf? As In, Lousy Options?

Okay...

First of all... Natural Spell goes RIGHT out the window.

GO TO GROUND (Class feature Sub)
IRON CONSTITUTION (Class feature Sub)
URBAN COMPANION (Class feature Sub)
VOICE OF THE CITY (Class feature Sub)
All useful in a city, but otherwise, VERY NERF

ASPECT OF THE DRAGON (Class feature Sub)
you give up wild shape for SUCKY POWERS.

SPONTANEOUS AFFLICTION (Class feature Sub)
Give up the power to spontaniously summon critters to spontanously make people make a saving throw or... get... er... sickened for a few rounds? (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Cha modifier)???
OH MY GOD, THAT SUCKS!!!

Take the Half-Orc Racial Substitution level for the first level. *Snicker*

Hey, maybe just for the theme of it, be a wasteland druid.

Oh, HERES a "good" one.

DRUID
The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in
exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter.
Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk,
including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk),
favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track
feat (as ranger).
Lose: Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all
versions).

Monk Druid! heh. Then multiclass into monk and ask if it stacks.

Here is a list of the weakest Spellcaster PrCs you could go into:
Black Flame Zealot
Entropomancer
Master of Shrouds
Arboreal Guardian
Brimstone Speaker
Eye of Lolth
Gray Guard
Moon Guardian
Prestige Ranger
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Warpriest

If you Go With The Urban, Sickening, half-orc, Draconic Druid, I'd go with Warpriest. It just seems to fit.

I also would consider:
Runescarred Berserker

But some other suck-tastic choices are:
Mortal Hunter
Pious Templar
Prime Underdark Guide
Scaled Horror
Shade Hunter
Slayer of Domiel
Soldier of Light
Templar
Temple Raider
Thayan Slaver
Vassals of Bahamut
Vigilante
Windrider
Ocular Adept

oh, and these are HORRIBLE:
Bone Collector
Cultist of the Shattered Peak
Harper Scout
Knight of the Middle Circle
Merchant Prince
Telflammar Shadowlord

There. That should make for a very interesting, yet completely crippled PC.

[Gnaeus]

Do not nerf yourself. But focus on buffing your party, control the environment together with the DM. Spread your strengths out. Make him adaptable.

My favorite way to do this:
L1 Feat: Brew Potion
L3 Craft Wondrous Items
L5 Craft Arms and Armor.

With a little downtime, you should be 1 level behind your fabulously equipped party. If other players are superbad, focus on items that have static buffs rather than use/day items that they will continue to use.

[Ruethgar]

I like to specialize druids in one area to lower their power and bring forcus to a character. But due to the power of a druid, this most often means not actually being a druid.

Melee Shifter: This removes the summons in place of minor healing and limits your spell casting with your forms, but you can charge fairly well and after level 6 you will be able to take a good amount of damage. Your unarmed attacks are decent and you have a pretty good full attack. Your shapeshifting is gimped, but it also allows you more creative freedom over what you look like rather than shaping into what is best for combat. Strength and Constitution are your primary stats.

Shapeshift Rejuvenation Druid 1/Spirit Lion Dashing Step City Brawler Barbarian 1/Pugilist Fighter 4/Martial Chaos Monk 2/Fist of the Forest 1/Druid 11
Note: If you want even more focus on melee, Totemist 2, replacing 2 druid levels will still get you decent shapeshift forms, lessen your spellcasting and give you some more natural attacks.

Beast Master: This gets you a very powerful animal companion at the cost of your own ability. The animal ends with +29 HD, +29 Natural AC, +14 Strength and Dexterity plus the Magebred Template and hopefully the Warbeast template as well. Your character on the other hand only gets 6th level spells and no wildshape, pushing you into a summoner roll and backup melee combatant.

Beast Master Fighter 1/ Focused Animal Druid 3/ Fighter 1/Beast Master 1/Vadalis Beastkeeper 10/Fighter 4
Take Wild Cohort on your Animal Companion.Mongoose Publishing Quintessential Fighter.
Beast Master(Fighter Background Archetype): Loose all fighter weapon and armor proficiency except shortbow, one spear(your choice), dagger and light armor. Gain animal companion at druid progression.
Storm: Caster focus to the exclusion of most else. This takes out all wildshape and animal companion for some storm focused abilities that are sub-optimal. It is great if you want to go for that whole master of nature's wrath feel. Spellcasting is always powerful, making it a druid's sole special ability may be a bit much though. Wisdom is your primary stat.

Storm Druid 20

[Captnq]

okay, Barbarian/Druid

With: Monk and Ranger For Druid Wild Shape

Urban Companion for Animal Companion so you got yourself a wuss.

Now You can EITHER:
Give up Spontanous Summon for SPONTANEOUS AFFLICTION. Your totem animal is the Skunk.
You give up Resist nature's lure for IRON CONSTITUTION
Which will help when you give up rage for FEROCITY. (+4 to str and dex, not str/con) as a barbarian. Iron con negates 1/2 the side effects of ferocity. (See? You get to claim SYNERGY! You're self-nerfing, while it APPEARS that you are Optimizing! Clever, eh?)

OR:

WHIRLING FRENZY (BARBARIAN)
A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn’t gain the
normal bonuses when he enters a rage.
Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a
rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2
dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves.
While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one
extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but
this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack
made that round.

I actually like the last one. A Barbarian/Druid (Monk)!

Take Two weapon fighting! Take stuff to give you multiple AoO. You'll have a half dozen attacks by the level 6 and you won't hit with any of them.

Monk Flurry of Blows! Barbarian Whirling Attack! Two Weapon Fighting! The negative just keep piling on!!!

And yet, it'll look like you are trying.

[Red Fel]

There are, as above posters have illustrated, hundreds of ways for any character, let alone a druid, to be mechanically nerfed. The 3.X library is a sprawling mess of byzantine rules and mechanics, and simply by grabbing a handful at random, you can effortlessly cripple your character.

Please, don't do that.

You want to nerf your character? You don't have to cut off his arms and legs. Just don't use them as vigorously as you might.

Use wildshape, but don't turn into a dinosaur. Use spells, but don't cheese them. Take a PrC, but not Planar Shepherd.

Basically, just don't outshine the party. Take tactical decisions instead of power ones. Use spells that provide a passive, useful benefit to other party members, or spells that debuff your enemies, rather than focusing on spells that turn you into Gaea's Wrath incarnate.

Alternatively, focus fire. Become extremely good at one thing, and rubbish at anything else. It stinks, but it works. Druids are powerful in part because of their versatility. Focus on shapeshifted combat, or healing spells, or offensive spells, or one thing to the extreme. You can even outshine the party at that one thing, provided they can outshine you in other areas.

That's it. That's all you have to do. If you prove yourself useful in combat, if nobody has to die because you pulled your punches, and if your partymembers can have their time in the spotlight, you've done it. Mission accomplished. And it didn't require you to gouge out your eyes or do anything drastic.

[Coidzor]

Beast Master: This gets you a very powerful animal companion at the cost of your own ability. The animal ends with +29 HD, +29 Natural AC, +14 Strength and Dexterity plus the Magebred Template and hopefully the Warbeast template as well. Your character on the other hand only gets 6th level spells and no wildshape, pushing you into a summoner roll and backup melee combatant.

Beast Master Fighter 1/ Focused Animal Druid 3/ Fighter 1/Beast Master 1/Vadalis Beastkeeper 10/Fighter 4
Take Wild Cohort on your Animal Companion.Mongoose Publishing Quintessential Fighter.
Beast Master(Fighter Background Archetype): Loose all fighter weapon and armor proficiency except shortbow, one spear(your choice), dagger and light armor. Gain animal companion at druid progression.

Storm: Caster focus to the exclusion of most else. This takes out all wildshape and animal companion for some storm focused abilities that are sub-optimal. It is great if you want to go for that whole master of nature's wrath feel. Spellcasting is always powerful, making it a druid's sole special ability may be a bit much though. Wisdom is your primary stat.

Storm Druid 20

Source on Storm Druid and Focused Animal Druid?

[Beardbarian]

Just be a battlefield controller and make your party control your wildshape

-Ok, we have to spy that guy
-Why you don't wildshape yourself into a cat?
-YOU ARE A GENIUS!

Pro:
You are still powerful and useful for the party
Your teammates will feel so smart because "that was my idea"

[Ruethgar]

Source on Storm Druid and Focused Animal Druid?

Dragon 328 p87 and 347 p91 respectively. The more powerful alternatives that do similar things are Winter Warden(Storm) in 311 p60 and Totem Druid(Focused Animal) 335 p87

[Winthur]

Just be a battlefield controller and make your party control your wildshape

-Ok, we have to spy that guy
-Why you don't wildshape yourself into a cat?
-YOU ARE A GENIUS!

Pro:
You are still powerful and useful for the party
Your teammates will feel so smart because "that was my idea"

This.
Play a really timid goofy children's cartoon like character who has enormous powers at his disposal but is so shy and afraid that he needs to be reminded he can use them, and then when in a mortal danger situation he suddenly becomes competent.

[Somensjev]

Just be a battlefield controller and make your party control your wildshape

-Ok, we have to spy that guy
-Why you don't wildshape yourself into a cat?
-YOU ARE A GENIUS!

Pro:
You are still powerful and useful for the party
Your teammates will feel so smart because "that was my idea"

this seems fun



and i want to be nerfed, not useless :smalltongue:

[Spore]

This.
Play a really timid goofy children's cartoon like character who has enormous powers at his disposal but is so shy and afraid that he needs to be reminded he can use them, and then when in a mortal danger situation he suddenly becomes competent.

This is cringer, my fearless friend. :eek:

[Iryanmadayana]

This is cringer, my fearless friend. :eek:
...ohgod, yes. Make a shapeshifter druid, use your magic for healing and maybe some wilderness utility, but not for combat. Instead, function as the mount for the party fighter.

I now want to do this...