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pestilenceawaits
2007-01-05, 02:50 PM
Out of all the ridiculous number of weapons out there which is your favorite and why? If you feel so inclined list your favorites by type.
as for me I really like the full blade from the arms and equipment guide it reminds me of the over sized final fantasy swords. ranged weapons I kind of like the harpoon which I discovered recently I love than it hurts going in and out and can be used to control the opposition. One handed would have to be either bastard sword or dire pick (with appropriate feats).

so my list is
1h Dire pick or bastard sword
2h Full blade
Ranged Harpoon

Skyserpent
2007-01-05, 02:55 PM
Spiked Chain. The only weapon that's WORTH an exotic proficiency feat. Tripping, Reach, no AoOp penalties, disarming and the ability to be made of adamantine. Spiked Chain please.

Are Fullblades even available in 3.5?

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-05, 02:57 PM
Spiked Chain. The only weapon that's WORTH an exotic proficiency feat. Tripping, Reach, no AoOp penalties, disarming and the ability to be made of adamantine. Spiked Chain please.

Are Fullblades even available in 3.5?

The book was 3.0 but they can be retrofitted pretty easily they aren't that much more powerful than a great sword kind of like a up sized 2 handed bastard sword.

Amiria
2007-01-05, 03:03 PM
Dwarven Warpike (from Races of Stone), also a weapon that is WORTH an exotic proficiency feat.

Tripping, reach, set against charge, 2d6/x3 slahing or piercing.

Better (exept at 5 feet) than the Spiked Chain and a less ridiculous weapon.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-05, 03:06 PM
I personally like punching daggers and claw-class weaponry. That x3 critical on a simple weapon is certainly very nice.

Skyserpent
2007-01-05, 03:06 PM
Dwarven Warpike (from Races of Stone), also a weapon that is WORTH an exotic proficiency feat.

Tripping, reach, set against charge, 2d6/x3 slahing or piercing.

Better (exept at 5 feet) than the Spiked Chain and a less ridiculous weapon.

Yes, Spiked Chains are ridiculous but so is MAGIC... Nonetheless yeah, Dwarven Warpike. Bad. Ass.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-05, 03:07 PM
Gnome Quick Razor (Races of Stone) for me. No, no particular reason, I just like the idea of the weapon.

Eldred
2007-01-05, 03:16 PM
The Warmace - its big, its heavy. Oh my, its not really good, but imagine getting hit by it. Hit an orc across the head and.... well, where's its head gone? :smallsmile:

Nerd-o-rama
2007-01-05, 03:18 PM
Fullbaldes aren't available in my games as such. If a player wants to use a fullblade, they can Monkey Grip a Large Greatsword; it's the same thing. And I will laugh and laugh at them.

Spiked Chains, Dwarven Warpikes, and Goliath Greathammers are all kinda uber, but they require Exotic Weapon Prof., so it makes sense. For more fairness, the best simple and martial weapons are:

Simple melee:
Morningstar: a versatile weapon that does good damage for a low, low price and no feat cost. Good for basher Clerics and backup for spellcasters.
Dagger: a humble weapon, but it's your best friend in a grapple or the throat of something with Swallow Whole. Plus, if you need a ranged weapon in a hurry, you can chuck it at someone.
Longspear: the only simple Reach weapon, it's great for low-level casters that want to keep the melee bashers at a distance. Or at least poke them when they close to attack range.

Simple ranged: Slings are the only projectile weapons you can use one-handed. Not great, but it can be useful. Basically anything is better than crossbows, most of the time.

Martial Melee: the good stuff.
Longswords are a classic, but pretty much even with the slightly cheaper Battleaxe and Warhammer. One-handed, I'd go with a Rapier for crit range and finessability.
Halberds and Scythes are good for multiple damage types and tripping. Scythes have a better crit range and slightly worse damage, but I honestly feel silly swinging a scythe around on the battlefield.
If you want to trip someone at range without spending a feat on EWP, a Guisarme is probably the way to do it.

Martial Ranged: Composite Longbows are, by a wide margin, your best bet for ranged weapon damage in the game.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-05, 03:25 PM
Dagger. I'm a stabbin' fiend! They're also the most well-rounded weapons in the game, save for their damage output (sigh).

Oversized great swords are excellent for damage-dealing, and rather impressive, scary weapons. They're also the most fun if you're an artificer with a lot of spare time and craft points left. Imagine being followed around by a couple intelligent, floating colossal greatswords. Oh man, that's the stuff.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-05, 03:31 PM
Full blades require an exotic weapon feat to use and actually do less damage than a large size great sword.

Machete
2007-01-05, 03:33 PM
Elven Courtblade(finessed) High Dex tastiness.
Bolas: Ranged trip, yes please.
Spear: Well rounded and eveyone can use them pretty much

Zephra
2007-01-05, 03:37 PM
rapier. definatly rapier. *poke, poke, poke the enemy full of holes!!*

clarkvalentine
2007-01-05, 03:38 PM
An allied wizard standing ten feet behind you.




What?

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-05, 03:38 PM
Full blades require an exotic weapon feat to use and actually do less damage than a large size great sword.

0.5 average damage or +2 to hit? I'll take +2 to hit, thanks.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-05, 03:41 PM
0.5 average damage or +2 to hit? I'll take +2 to hit, thanks.

That was my point though poorly made.:smallsmile: monkey gripping a great sword seems less effective to me.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-05, 03:43 PM
That was my point though poorly made.:smallsmile: monkey gripping a great sword seems less effective to me.

Monkey Grip is Power Attack's 'special' little brother who hangs around all the big kids like Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, bringing along his drooling friend Weapon Focus.

Thomas
2007-01-05, 03:56 PM
Elven courtblade. Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, a max-Dex Champion of Corellon Larethian build... I like it.

Darrin
2007-01-05, 04:14 PM
My personal favorite is the Bastard Sword, so much so that every single character concept I ever come up with somehow involves the Bastard Sword.

It's probably not worth the EWP feat just to do +1 more damage than a longsword, but I can't explain how much I prefer rolling 1d10 for damage rather than 1d8 or 2d6.

I'm still wetting my pants over the Oversize TWF feat in Complete Adventurer. I spent literally *days* trying to figure out how to eliminate the size penalty for TWF + Bastard Sword. Yeah, I know it's not optimal at all, but it makes me happy.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-05, 04:15 PM
d10s are prettier than d8s. More aesthetically pleasing.

Beleriphon
2007-01-05, 04:25 PM
I'm going to have to take the might greatsword for this one folk. If I want straight damage to hit ratio a power attacking greatsword wielder is hard to beat.

Icwer
2007-01-05, 05:11 PM
I do like the Kukri, although I have to admit I never played with one.
This because I just read more about the weapon and I never payed attention to it before:smalltongue:.
But, the day after tomorrow, my campaign continues so who knows...:smallbiggrin:.

tarbrush
2007-01-05, 05:18 PM
Monkey Grip is Power Attack's 'special' little brother who hangs around all the big kids like Shock Trooper and Leap Attack, bringing along his drooling friend Weapon Focus.

Thankyou for my new sig :)

Avicenex
2007-01-05, 05:35 PM
Scorpion whip from Sandstorm that does 1d43.

Favorite weapon that doesn't involve typos? Scythe. I just love that x4 critical, even if it is (statistically) a bad weapon.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-05, 05:37 PM
Scorpion whip from Sandstorm that does 1d43.

Favorite weapon that doesn't involve typos? Scythe. I just love that x4 critical, even if it is (statistically) a bad weapon.

Scythe with the 3.0 Weaponmaster was AMAZING. 9-20/x6 critical? Yes please. Ooh, and I'll whirlwind attack with it and kill everybody.

Pegasos989
2007-01-05, 05:40 PM
Scorpion whip from Sandstorm that does 1d43.

Favorite weapon that doesn't involve typos? Scythe. I just love that x4 critical, even if it is (statistically) a bad weapon.


Scythe is statistically one of the best martial weapons. Far superior to greatsword or greataxe after the first few levels.


Anyways, my favourite weapon must be falchion. No doubt about it.

The_Werebear
2007-01-05, 05:47 PM
Greataxe: It's just fun. I like 1d12. Plus, I tend to be a gambler when it comes to damage. I'll take the equal chance for a 12 and a 1, rather than have it gravitate towards the center like with a Greatsword.

Spiked Shields: Sheer versitility. For a fighter TWF build, it is the way to go. This usually is reserved for lower level campaigns though, as the +2 ac and lower damage output hurts it bad later on.

Whip: Bard Trip Build! Bweeeehehehehehehe.Even if it isn't horribly effective, it is a blast to trip someone over and over again, especially if you also disarm them while they are down. It gets even better when you prance away singing "Mock, mock, mock, the ineffective combatant!"

Grapple: Even though it can be countered by Freedom of Movement, many wizards will chose not to invest in a ring of it or a Cleric Lackey. The, you procede to own them. It also works well against other meleers, because they will not be able to attack you with their large weapons.

Disintigrate: Yes, there are better spells. But this can double as utility as well as blasty stuff. Nothing quite like disintigrating the rock under someone for an instant pit trap.

Truwar
2007-01-05, 05:57 PM
Scythe is statistically one of the best martial weapons. Far superior to greatsword or greataxe after the first few levels.



Scythe only holds it's ground against Greatswords & Greataxes when you do not take blow-through damage into account. Who cares that you did 80 points of damage to that guy who only has 40 hp? You just wasted 40 points of damage.

That being said, I DO have a softspot for multiplying my two-handed strength modifier by 4 (not to mention power attack bonus). :smallbiggrin:

And you will still gravitate towrds the center with a d12 in the longrun, it will just be a 6.5 dmg center instead of a 7 dmg center.

The_Werebear
2007-01-05, 06:10 PM
I'm not talking about averages though.

A d12 has an equal chance to come up on every number between 1 and 12.

A 2d6 will come up more frequently in the mid range, meaning less rolls of 2, but also less rolls of 12.

Dancing_Zephyr
2007-01-05, 06:12 PM
And you will still gravitate towrds the center with a d12 in the longrun, it will just be a 6.5 dmg center instead of a 7 dmg center.

The average damage is 6.5 but the way the damage is spread out is different. A great axe has a 1 in 12 chance to get a 12, a greatsword, however has only a 1 in 36 chance to do so. The greatsword has a 1 in 6 chance to do 7 damage, which would mean that the damage does gravitate towards the middle.

On topic: Longspear.

Simu-ninjaed

Tibor
2007-01-05, 06:26 PM
Exotic weapon wise, I like the Goliath Greathammer when ever playing a basher type. It's great for Improved Sunder and just plain intimidating. Elven Courtblade for the finesse fighter, and spiked chain for those tripping builds.

Martial Weapons it's Falcion all the way.

And for simple weapons...well I don't think I've ever built a character that didn't have at least ONE dagger.

Ranged weapons, Composite Shortbow/Longbow.

Khantalas
2007-01-05, 06:32 PM
Tigerskull club.

Dark Knight Renee
2007-01-05, 07:23 PM
Rapier. Unless you have need of a light weapon specifically (graples, class features, whathaveyou) or are investing in Spiked Chain goodness(or cheese, if you like), Rapier is hands down the best finessable Core weapon. And I usually play finesse characters.

If an elf, especially a TWF elf, substitute Rapier for Elven Thinblade (and Elven Lightblade) from CW. Not really worth it if you're not an elven TWF, but if you are, you can get both with one feat.

Matthew
2007-01-05, 07:25 PM
Dagger. Best weapon in its category.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-05, 07:39 PM
Scorpion whip from Sandstorm that does 1d43.

Favorite weapon that doesn't involve typos?

Silly silly Avicenex...thats no typo. Typo implies that while it may be in every book that Wizard of the Coast produced Errata or a statement that fixed it. And unless that has changed recently, and I don't think it did, the Scorpion Whip does indeed do 1d43 points of damage. I'll take a scorpion whip with VT's Paragon enhancement any day of the week. And I'll argue that it does indeed do 1d43 (unless it was errataed.) till the end of the week if need be....even though everyone knows it should (but isn't) 1d4.



Other then that, my fave is the spring loaded gauntlet which sadly hasn't been updated to 3.5 yet.

Amphimir Míriel
2007-01-05, 07:43 PM
Spiked Chain
Dire pick
Full blade
Dwarven Warpike
Monkey Grip + Large Greatsword
Elven Courtblade
Falchion

Thank you guys for updating the my list of "Cheesy weapons not allowed in my game"
:wink:

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-05, 07:44 PM
Monkey Grip + Large Greatsword


If you're going to ban that you should ban Power Attack as well. :smalltongue:

Skizac
2007-01-05, 08:00 PM
Greathammer from MM4, the one listed with the Greathorn Minotaur. 1d12 19-20/x4 medium weapon. This seems too good to be true.

Knolan
2007-01-05, 08:06 PM
I like Talenta Sharrash (eberron) better... It's an exotic, scythe-like weapon. Damage is 1d10, it has reach of 10 ft and crit is 19-20 x4. Really nice to a fighter (even thought I don't like fighters very much).

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention, you can trip with it also.

Armads
2007-01-05, 08:10 PM
i like falchions...i saw my barbarian friend dish out a triple critical with it

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-05, 08:14 PM
Hmm... a keen thundering falchion could be a remarkably effective weapon, come to think of it. Crit 25% of the time with good damage... yeeeees...

Nerd-o-rama
2007-01-05, 08:28 PM
I like Talenta Sharrash (eberron) better... It's an exotic, scythe-like weapon. Damage is 1d10, it has reach of 10 ft and crit is 19-20 x4. Really nice to a fighter (even thought I don't like fighters very much).

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention, you can trip with it also.

Actually, it's crit range is 19-20/x2. Errata'd (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). It's actually not much better than a Guisarme, post-errata.

The White Knight
2007-01-05, 08:32 PM
Ha. I was wondering if that was errated. That was originally absurd.

Missing Shoe
2007-01-05, 08:35 PM
I like Kusari-Gamas for RP purposes. After watching Samurai Champloo I fell in love with it.:smallsmile:

danielf
2007-01-05, 08:38 PM
scyte, i love scyte x4 critical

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-05, 09:45 PM
Orbital lasers.

krossbow
2007-01-05, 09:49 PM
Fullblades are nice. Great for barbarians.


However, for cheese, the spiked chain.





I myself, as a bard, Like the greatness of whip daggers with arcane strike.

1d6. light weapon so you can dual wield, and a 15ft reach. Plus, since youre proficient in it as a bard (proficient in whips), you automatically have it.

Fawsto
2007-01-05, 09:54 PM
Hmmm... Lemme see

Best weapons that don't require a feat such Use Exotic Weapon:

- Sabre (Good Crit, but has small damage)
- Morningstar (Both Piercing and Crushing dmg at once, 1d8 dmg)
- Scythe (crit x4! C'mon,this kick ass!)
- Large Sword (the best for balanced 2handed fighting)

Require Exotic Feat:

- Thin Elven Blade (Its a sabre + a longsword! 1d8 with 18~20/ x2 crit!)
- Spiked Chain (best ranged weapon ever!)
- Bastard Sword (the classic!)
- Dagger whip (with the proper prestige class this weapon kicks even more ass than the spiked chain)


This is my opinion, I dont have access to many corebooks but these are my favourites as far as I know D&D weapons.

Leon
2007-01-05, 10:16 PM
Simple
Morning Star
Spear

Martial
Battle Axe
Greatsword
Halberd

Exotic
Elven Courtblade
Elven Thinblade
Nyss Claymore (Feat free if your a Nyss)
Katrena's Hook

Ranged
Composite Longbow

Other
Waraxe in the hands of a Dwarf

Hurlbut
2007-01-05, 10:18 PM
I like the Dwarven Warpike very much even if I haven't used it at all.

Legiao
2007-01-05, 10:24 PM
Come onnnnnnn,
Greatsword for the dmg 2d6 roxxx forever
And war Scythe for the style. By my cleric whose cause is the Death.
'' Sua hora chegou , esteja preparado para a colheita... ''
Trad.
'' Your time has come , be ready for the harvest ... ''

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-01-05, 10:26 PM
I have to go with the trusty Bastard Sword also. You can one hand it, you can 2 hand it, if youre willing to burn the feats; you can dual wield them... awesome.

geez3r
2007-01-05, 10:53 PM
Greataxe.

Why? My d12 is lucky. I've never rolled below a 5 on it, in RL anyways.

MeklorIlavator
2007-01-05, 11:18 PM
I like Kusari-Gamas for RP purposes. After watching Samurai Champloo I fell in love with it.:smallsmile:
A dual wielded spiked chain!

Scorpina
2007-01-05, 11:35 PM
Scythes are awesome, frankly...

I find myself using whips, shuriken and maces a lot even though they're not so great. That's what playing Clerics and Bards all the dang time will do for you.

erewhon
2007-01-06, 12:35 AM
Greathammer from MM4, the one listed with the Greathorn Minotaur. 1d12 19-20/x4 medium weapon. This seems too good to be true.

Whoah.

Is it a Two-hander? Is it an Exotic? Does it do "anything else" like trips, disarm bonuses, etc, etc?

If it's "yes, yes, no" to all those, then doubling the crit range compared to the Greatsword is pretty justified, although it is the first published weapon I am aware of with 8 pips of crit range. New territory! :)

Frankly, most Exotic Weapons are sadly underpowered. If I have to burn an entire Feat just to learn how to use the silly thing, I want it to be worth it.

Oh, and on-topic, I am a fan of the "Greatsword/Locking Gauntlet/Spiked Gauntlet" combo for steady-swinging hard-hitting bruisers, or Spiked Chain for the finessy types. Scythe is a tripping weapon and the rare crits are LEGENDARY. :)

If you have the feats, the Long Axe is a deceptively simple Exotic that is just darned useful, and can be rigged up with the same Locking Gauntlet/Spiked Gauntlet setup as the Greatsword.

A sling with alchemical ammo is surprisingly effective.

Avicenex
2007-01-06, 12:43 AM
I'm pretty sure there's a saying that usually holds true: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." But as I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of said weapon, that's just a guess.

To MelkorIlavator: Pity spiked chain is a two handed weapon. Makes it kinda difficult to dual wield...

On another note, how exactly do AoOs work with people dual wielding?
EDIT: Nevermind. I just looked at the rules again and answered that question.

clockwork warrior
2007-01-06, 01:11 AM
a little out of context, but i like the sword-ax from monte cooks arcana unearted.

it is just such a ridicules that its awesome, and it has the benefits of both a sword and an ax ( crits at 19/20 x3

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-01-06, 01:13 AM
are we talking straight weapons or ones that have enhancements on them?

Jack_of_Spades
2007-01-06, 03:13 AM
I like the Talenta Sharrash from Eberron.
Exotic Weapon
Must be used two handed
1d10 18-20/X4 Has reach.

I like that one a lot.

Amiria
2007-01-06, 03:37 AM
This came up a few posts above your own about the Talenta Sharrash:


Actually, it's crit range is 19-20/x2. Errata'd (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). It's actually not much better than a Guisarme, post-errata.

Jack_of_Spades
2007-01-06, 05:31 AM
Aw, dang, they didn't even give it a x3 instead.

Well, then I change my answer to the light pick, heavy pick, or scythe. I like x4 crits a lot.

endoperez
2007-01-06, 06:39 AM
Simple ranged: Slings are the only projectile weapons you can use one-handed. Not great, but it can be useful. Basically anything is better than crossbows, most of the time.


A sling with alchemical ammo is surprisingly effective.

Wow, two mentions of slings!

I'd like to do a quarterstaff/sling Druid or Ranger sometime. Magic Stone and Shillelagh wouldn't probably be enough, but I'd like to try.

Sir_Banjo
2007-01-06, 08:17 AM
Mercurial Greatsword. How exactly does that work anyways?

Matthew
2007-01-06, 08:20 AM
As far as I know, it doesn't...

Skizac
2007-01-06, 08:25 AM
Whoah.

Is it a Two-hander? Is it an Exotic? Does it do "anything else" like trips, disarm bonuses, etc, etc?

If it's "yes, yes, no" to all those, then doubling the crit range compared to the Greatsword is pretty justified, although it is the first published weapon I am aware of with 8 pips of crit range. New territory! :)

It's 2-handed, exotic, and it gives a +2 bonus to sunder attempts. After doing some googling, the consensus seems to be that the 19-20/x4 crit is a typo. The weapon is listed alongside the Greathorn Minotaur, which wields it. But if you look in the monster's stats, it only has a x4 crit. Removing the 19-20 would make the weapon exactly the same as the Goliath Greathammer from Races of Stone, which makes sense.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-06, 08:37 AM
I like:

Kukri (generally dual-wielded)
Heavy Pick
Spiked Chain
Composite Longbow

Goliath greathammers are awesome too, but I don't play many goliaths.

Matthew
2007-01-06, 08:38 AM
Isn't the Composite Great Bow better than the Composite Long Bow?

Ikkitosen
2007-01-06, 08:52 AM
Isn't the Composite Great Bow better than the Composite Long Bow?

Not at the cost of a feat - the Great Bow is Exotic, isn't it?

Matthew
2007-01-06, 09:00 AM
I don't know, only ever heard of it through hearsay, which was that it did 1D10 rather than Long Bow 1D8 or Short Bow 1D6. If it doesn't have any other special powers (apart from increased range increment) it's a bit silly to make it Exotic, but not unsurprisiing, I suppose.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-06, 09:17 AM
It's in CW, and it sucks. Slight increase in damage and range for a feat. No thanks!

Matthew
2007-01-06, 09:20 AM
Crazy. Might as well make the Great Sword Exotic (Why? Well, it's a really big sword). Oh well.

grinner666
2007-01-06, 11:33 AM
Silly silly Avicenex...thats no typo. Typo implies that while it may be in every book that Wizard of the Coast produced Errata or a statement that fixed it. And unless that has changed recently, and I don't think it did, the Scorpion Whip does indeed do 1d43 points of damage. I'll take a scorpion whip with VT's Paragon enhancement any day of the week. And I'll argue that it does indeed do 1d43 (unless it was errataed.) till the end of the week if need be....even though everyone knows it should (but isn't) 1d4.



Other then that, my fave is the spring loaded gauntlet which sadly hasn't been updated to 3.5 yet.

Find me a d43 anywhere and I'll let the scorpion whip do that damage in my campaign. I'll even let you use it. :smalltongue:

As to favorite weapons, it's really tough to beat the no-dachi (Japanese greatsword) for sheer style once you've seen Seven Samurai.

I've also always been fond of the wheel-lock horse pistol from 2E's A Mighty Fortress. So fond, in fact, that I ran a renaissance-tech campaign for quite a few years.

The_Werebear
2007-01-06, 12:47 PM
Find me a d43 anywhere and I'll let the scorpion whip do that damage in my campaign. I'll even let you use it. :smalltongue:



I found one right here

[roll0]

Amphimir Míriel
2007-01-06, 12:53 PM
If you're going to ban that you should ban Power Attack as well. :smalltongue:

Actually, I find that none of my players have managed to abuse Power Attack yet, so as long as I don't tell them about this forum, Im ok :smallwink:


I like Kusari-Gamas for RP purposes. After watching Samurai Champloo I fell in love with it.:smallsmile:

A dual wielded spiked chain!

Actually, a Kusari Gama is a two-handed weapon, basically it's a Kama + weighted chain... you use the kama section in your off-hand for close range slashing damage while flailing the chain section to do ranged bludgeoning attacks and to trip/disarm opponents... Nothing to do with the unrealistic cheese that is the spiked chain. (more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama)

grinner666
2007-01-06, 01:12 PM
I found one right here

[roll0]

Uh-huh. I play live. Sorry, try the next window over.

Khantalas
2007-01-06, 01:14 PM
Use caclulators.

Random function FTW.

Although who invented random function, and what use does it otherwise have, I really gotta ask.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-06, 01:34 PM
Find me a d43 anywhere and I'll let the scorpion whip do that damage in my campaign. I'll even let you use it.

The fact someone made an actual d100 should show you that for the enough money I can get the mighty d43 and use its awesome might! Fear the d43!

Khantalas
2007-01-06, 01:37 PM
I don't think you can make a dice with an odd number of sides.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-01-06, 01:39 PM
I think I'd have to go with a vorpal bastard sword.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-06, 01:42 PM
I don't think you can make a dice with an odd number of sides.

That you can do actually. I have a couple d3's.

Dragor
2007-01-06, 01:43 PM
I've always been a fan of big, big swords- the Bastard Sword and Greatsword have always been very appealing to me. It's more for roleplay than anything- just imagining a small Dwarf killing everyone with his huge f*** off sword is always a great thought.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-01-06, 03:30 PM
I'm fairly certain a regular, 43-sided polyhedron is impossible. Then again, so's a regular ten-sided polyhedron, technically, and we make due. And the aforementioned d3's have more than three sides, they're just irregular and designed to fall on one of three, like a coin falls on one of two sides.

And random functions are used for many, many things including statistics, scientific simulation, and cryptography.

TempusCCK
2007-01-06, 03:52 PM
Anyone use a computer to play? I could program a D43 into my dice roller in about five minutes.

Or... just roll 4D20 and 1D6 and divide by two(round up), you'll just have to treat a 3 as a natural 1 for the purposes of screwing up your players. That is of course, if you're a flexible DM who isn't too hung up on rules.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-06, 03:56 PM
I'd have to say my favorite weapon is a tie between a grand piano and a lute with which my Orc bard smashed people.

Good times, good times.

Zonac
2007-01-06, 09:17 PM
5 Words, er, actually, 3 words, a symbol, and a number: +2 keen vorpal scythe.

But since that's obviously overpowered, a regular keen scythe will do. Or a keen pick. Or a vorpal bastard sword. Or a wounding returning spear of inflict serious wounds.

Raool
2007-01-07, 01:16 AM
My favorite weapon is the mercurial longsword. Mostly because of its ability to gauge the monsters body temperature given a proper insertion into the monster in question. Infant style, if you catch my drift.:smallwink:

Scorpina
2007-01-07, 01:18 AM
...hmm, not sure how on topic this really is but has anyone ever used a Gnome Hooked Hammer? They seem vaguely nifty...

Tor the Fallen
2007-01-07, 01:51 AM
Use a d86 with two sets of the digits 1-43. :)

Mattarias, King.
2007-01-07, 01:56 AM
i gotta say plain old, reliable longswords myself. but that's mostly 'cause silly things happen with mine around. ^^;

Khantalas
2007-01-07, 02:29 AM
Use a d86 with two sets of the digits 1-43. :)

That doesn't make a d43 dice, more than a d6 makes a d3.

Telok
2007-01-07, 01:46 PM
That doesn't make a d43 dice, more than a d6 makes a d3.

You never saw the d10s that were also d20s?

Man, now I feel old. They have two sets of 0 to 9, one set has a + symbol next to it.

Edit: To make a d3 from a d6, fill in some spots.

Khantalas
2007-01-07, 01:49 PM
d3 means three-sided die. You can't have a three sided die.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-07, 01:56 PM
I believe mechanically speaking, dN means a die that can produce an even distribution of numbers from 1 to N, except in the case of a d1, which produces 0 and 1, evenly.

Khantalas
2007-01-07, 02:00 PM
Huh. My PHB says otherwise.

Although of course, you can use a substitute. I use my d12, divide the result by two, rolling up and getting the same results I'd get with a d6. Does it make my d12 six-sided?

mikeejimbo
2007-01-07, 02:03 PM
Huh. My PHB says otherwise.

Although of course, you can use a substitute. I use my d12, divide the result by two, rolling up and getting the same results I'd get with a d6. Does it make my d12 six-sided?

It doesn't make it six-sided, but it effectively makes it a d6.

Khantalas
2007-01-07, 02:04 PM
My PHB says:

"...six-sided die (d6)..."

What does yours say?

grinner666
2007-01-07, 02:10 PM
You guys have really, really gotten off the subject. :smallbiggrin:

mikeejimbo
2007-01-07, 02:24 PM
It doesn't matter what the PHB says, mathematically speaking.

Khantalas
2007-01-07, 02:25 PM
I've got a calculator that can give me a random number between 1 and 6, inclusive. Is that a die, too?

mikeejimbo
2007-01-07, 02:29 PM
No, but it's effectively a d6.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-07, 04:30 PM
Stop being pedantic about what is and isn't a die, equivalent or not, ya big pedants!

I think the best weapon ever is the verbal club.

Ramza00
2007-01-07, 04:40 PM
I dislike the spike chain, especially when there is a better weapon "historically" already in the original DMG (but not the PHB and thus the SRD). It is called the Kusari-Gama. It is also a 10ft reach weapon that can also strike within anywhere of its reach, it is slashing though and does 1d6 damage vs 2d4. Thing is according to RAW (but it makes you cringe historically), they are one handed light weapons thus you can dual wield them (and make a dual wielding dervish).

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-07, 04:58 PM
It's in the DMG? Where?

Tibor
2007-01-07, 05:02 PM
I think the best weapon ever is the verbal club.

If you'll excuse me I'll need to get a shirt that hasn't been sprayed with coffee.

Pegasos989
2007-01-07, 05:33 PM
d3 means three-sided die. You can't have a three sided die.

http://www.rpgshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=36734

Pegasos989
2007-01-07, 05:37 PM
It's in the DMG? Where?

Somewhere in the DMG are texts on adapting campaigns to diffrent eras and cultures, some firearms rules, etc... Somewhere near them are rules for a few oriental type weapons, including that one.

I am too lazy to look up a page number. :D

Blinkbear
2007-01-07, 05:43 PM
Probably somebody also mentioned, but my fave is falchion.

At 3.0: Improved Critical and Keen (As far as I remember, they stacked)
At 3.5: Power Attack for -X to hit and +2X to damage. Also of course improved critical.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-07, 05:46 PM
Ah, found it. I'm sorry I doubted you.

Dumbledore lives
2007-01-07, 05:46 PM
I personally like the something dagger from complete adventurer, it adds to sneak attack, is cheap, and is a simple weapon.

Ramza00
2007-01-07, 05:49 PM
It's in the DMG? Where?

Even though you already found it, I might as well post the page number. p144 is the weapon text, p145 is the table. It is an light one handed exotic weapon.

Amiria
2007-01-07, 05:50 PM
I personally like the something dagger from complete adventurer, it adds to sneak attack, is cheap, and is a simple weapon.

The Barbed Dagger from Complete Adventurer is an exotic weapon.

MeklorIlavator
2007-01-07, 05:56 PM
To MelkorIlavator: Pity spiked chain is a two handed weapon. Makes it kinda difficult to dual wield...

I was refering to the Kurisa Gama from the DMG(asian weapons). It is a spiked chain, but light and deals 1d6 instead of 2d4

JaronK
2007-01-07, 06:16 PM
Spiked Chain
Dire pick
Full blade
Dwarven Warpike
Monkey Grip + Large Greatsword
Elven Courtblade
Falchion

Thank you guys for updating the my list of "Cheesy weapons not allowed in my game"
:wink:

Damn. I hope that was sarcasm. Some of those weapons are not even worth the exotic weapon proficiency (Dire Pick, Full Blade). One's incredibly underpowered (Monkey Gripped... anything). Only the Elven Courtblade, Spiked Chain, and Dwarven Warpike are worth the feats, and the EC is only so for a few very specific build... and most of the best parts of the other two can be replicated without the EWP feat with a Guisarme and armour spikes.

You know, most people use fancy wacky weaponry not because it's powerful, but because they like the image of a dude with a crazy weapon running about saving the world. Not cheesy... roleplaying.

Anyway, my votes for best weapons are going to have to go to the Light Crossbow, the Rapier, and the Dagger... but I love skill monkeys, so there you go.

JaronK

Ramza00
2007-01-07, 06:28 PM
Wow, two mentions of slings!

I'd like to do a quarterstaff/sling Druid or Ranger sometime. Magic Stone and Shillelagh wouldn't probably be enough, but I'd like to try.

Greater Mighty Wallop (Wiz/Sorc 3 in Races of the Dragon) should give you an extra 10.5 damage. Spikes the upgraded version of Shillelagh (Druid/Cleric 3 in CDiv and Spell Compedium) an extra 10 damage and improved critical. Greater Magic Weapon an extra 5 damage. =25.5 extra damage.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-07, 06:45 PM
Are the stats for the Hoopak (kender staff-slingshot) available anywhere? I don't have any 3.X Dragonlance books :(

erewhon
2007-01-07, 07:50 PM
Wow, two mentions of slings!

I'd like to do a quarterstaff/sling Druid or Ranger sometime. Magic Stone and Shillelagh wouldn't probably be enough, but I'd like to try.

That's because slings RULE. :)

They're practically free, both to buy and to feed. I mean, they throws ROCKS. With a decent BAB, how hard is it to overcome that crushing -2 for improvised sling bullets? :)

Plus, you can throw alchemical fire, shock, bust out the skiprocks, enchant the bejabbers out of one if you got the cash, they can use all the fancy ranged feats just like bows can, etc, etc.

Sure, they have a small range increment. How many 1000 foot arrow duels have YOU been involved in? And if that really bothers you, get a warsling! :D

Slings are very, very nice indeed. :D

JaronK
2007-01-07, 08:07 PM
Yeah, put in a vote from me for the sling too... nearly every character I play has one, as they're free and you can do some very fun stuff with them.

JaronK

Reptilius
2007-01-07, 08:11 PM
I don't personally see why everyone doesn't like the spiked chain. I just fall on my knees in awe before it.

erewhon
2007-01-07, 08:23 PM
I don't personally see why everyone doesn't like the spiked chain. I just fall on my knees in awe before it.

Heh. :)

I find myself conflicted about the spiked chain. On the one hand, it is the only Exotic Weapon in the core rules I'd EVER burn a feat for. The other Exotics are just...not that good. The Dwarven Waraxe and Bastard Sword are just "meh" and the rest are worse than that. Double weapons? Puh-leeeze!

Now, as time moves on, ever-so-slowly, other decent Exotics are showing up, such as the nifty Long Axe and the scarey Warmace.

No, my biggest complaint with the spiked chain is the flavor of it. I can picture King Arthur with a bastard sword. I can envision Gael-Bolg as a Long Axe (yeah, it's a spear, sue me). But a big hunk of logging chain with railroad spikes and axe blades welded to it? Who uses that, Paul Bunyan?


So, in general, I only use the Spiked Chain as the power template for when I design new Exotics. Works very well, so far. :)

JaronK
2007-01-07, 08:30 PM
The Spiked Chain is good for a few specific purposes, and worthless outside of that. If you want to set up huge cleaves, as with a FB charger, it's good for the ability to hit a wide number of foes (the Drow Scorpion Chain does the same thing though). For trippers, it's a reach weapon that can trip, so it's good there too (but a Dwarf Warpike and a Guisarme can do the same, and the latter is martial). It's not going to be worth it for pretty much anyone else.

JaronK

erewhon
2007-01-07, 09:00 PM
I like:

Kukri (generally dual-wielded)
Heavy Pick
Spiked Chain
Composite Longbow

Goliath greathammers are awesome too, but I don't play many goliaths.

I was reading back in the thread, and this comment caught my eye.

First, please don't misunderstand, if you like GREAT BIG HAMMERS, more power to you. :) But why do people like the Goliath Greathammer?

Examining the stats, let's compare it to the King of Martial Weapons, the greatsword.

A greatsword costs you 50 gold, does 2d6 with 4 pips of critical, is single damage type slashing, and weighs eight pounds.

A greathammer costs a bit less, does the same effective damage, has 4 pips of critical, is a single damage type bludgeoning, but is almost four times as heavy! Weight counts, even for Goliaths. So far, these two weapons look close to even, with the greatsword being a bit ahead, as the cost difference isn't THAT much. So, for the cost of a feat, I get a whopping +2 on Sunder attempts?

That's just not very good, is it?

The Goliath Greathammer is yet another example of a badly under-powered, but cool, Exotic. Is it good for flavor? You betcha! But you'd be more effective with a size Large Long Axe. Way better.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-07, 09:13 PM
I definitely meant awesome in terms of "big bloke hitting things with huge hammer and making them go squish". As for a mathematical analysis...well, that comes second to the aforementioned squishing!

The_Snark
2007-01-07, 09:39 PM
I'm rather fond of Frostburn's glot and razor skipdisk, because the idea of using frisbees and bowling balls in combat has a certain appeal.

Heavy mace for nostalgic value, though.

Tibor
2007-01-07, 09:52 PM
I like the Goliath Greathammer for the coolness factor especially when adamantine. A Goliath walking through town with a hammer most people can't even lift is great. Some times flavor wins over optimization.

Missing Shoe
2007-01-07, 10:04 PM
Spike chains are cool and all but I'm still a bigger fan of Kusari-Gama. If anyone is interested on how it is actually used... linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9FI5ppsyM). To me, that is so much cooler than just picking up a chain with spikes on it.

the_tick_rules
2007-01-07, 10:11 PM
i agree spiked chain. a one feat investment gives you a very versatile weapon. ya know i read the warmace and the -1 ac it grants becuase the weight supposedly off-balances you. anyone notice the maul, at 2x the weight, did not carry the same rule, weird huh :smallconfused:

Fizban
2007-01-08, 04:51 AM
My random list:

Simple:
Club
Longspear
Heavy Sickle (Planar Handbook)
Heavy Mace
Sling (just noticed they're free)

Martial:
Heavy Pick
Scythe
Bastard Sword in 2 hands

Exotic:
None, cause they all suck. (read: the ones I like are actually worse than marital weapons).

magic8BALL
2007-01-08, 06:10 AM
Not much beats a warmace in two hands when you have levels in exotic weapon master. Thats 1d12 plus double strength (not strength and a half!). Of couse you're a goliath, and have monkey grip, so its now 4d6 plus double a huge strength... too bad its only 20/x2 on a crit... and gives a -1 to AC... actually... warmaces are pretty dodgy...

...pass me that dwarven waraxe over there...

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 06:33 AM
I like Lajatangs, 'cause they're awesome. Totally crap for anyone but a monk, and pretty crap for them too, but they look so cool!

I prefer the Drow Scorpion Chain over the spiked chain, as the damage change is hardly noticeable, but the higher crit range really helps.

Drascin
2007-01-08, 07:36 AM
Actually, it's crit range is 19-20/x2. Errata'd (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). It's actually not much better than a Guisarme, post-errata.

Yeah, I discovered that way too late, when I already had created and used a Sharrash-based meleer. And I'd like to add, it makes little sense to me that a weapon that is basically a long scythe has a crit multiplier of x2, but hey, rules are rules. Except when you get your DM to change it to 1d10 x4, like I did :smallwink:.

Aaaaanyway, on topic:

Kukri, Tangat, Shillelagh :smallwink:, and Sharrash (own version) for rather exotic weapons. Yah, I like criticals :P.

When limited to more normal weapons, composite longbow, dagger, scimitar and greatsword. Dwarven waraxe if dwarf.

Ambrogino
2007-01-08, 09:36 AM
5 Words, er, actually, 3 words, a symbol, and a number: +2 keen vorpal scythe.

If a weapon's vorpal you'll want it to have a high threat range, not a high crit modifier, since extra damage on criticals is meaningless. Keen vorpal Falchion.

Are there stat's for a Main Gauche anywhere? I'd imagine them to have the same stat's as Kukri's only piercing instead of slashing, but I've only ever seen daggers. I've always favoured Rapier and Main Gauche fighting. Spears are also great, and the valenar double-scimitar for a bizzare fantasy double weapon that's almost actually wieldable irl.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-08, 10:01 AM
Does anyone here use the variant weapon group feats you can get exotics that way while losing lots of other weapons and it improves the effectiveness of weapon focus etc.

Darrin
2007-01-08, 10:18 AM
I don't think you can make a dice with an odd number of sides.

Don't you dare say that!

http://www.dicecollector.com/DUNUSUAL.HTM

No d43, though. You could probably do a d86 double-pyramid numbered 1-43 twice, but it would probably take 2.6 days for it to stop rolling...

Ping_T._Squirrel
2007-01-08, 10:40 AM
As a DM, I never liked the look or feel of a spiked chain... So you will not find one in my campaign and if someone does go and make one, I will consider it an improvised weapon and not that attrocity that is in the manual right now.

That said, I like the scythe simple because you occasionally do 80-100 damage with it. That's a tough fort save for nearly anything.

Skizac
2007-01-08, 12:31 PM
If a weapon's vorpal you'll want it to have a high threat range, not a high crit modifier, since extra damage on criticals is meaningless. Keen vorpal Falchion.

In 3.5, the vorpal quality only triggers on a natural 20. If your vorpal weapon is 18-20/2x and you roll a 19, it's just a regular critical.

erewhon
2007-01-08, 12:51 PM
I like Lajatangs, 'cause they're awesome. Totally crap for anyone but a monk, and pretty crap for them too, but they look so cool!

I prefer the Drow Scorpion Chain over the spiked chain, as the damage change is hardly noticeable, but the higher crit range really helps.

Er?

I'm not so sure crits do as much as people think they do.

Let's take three identical fighters. One has a falchion, one has a greatsword, one has a scythe. They have identical careers, take identical feats, etc. Let's assume that in a given period of time, they make 1000 melee attacks, and hit with 700 of them. The guy with the greatsword does 4900 points of damage on average, while the falchion and scythe both do 3500 base.

The guy with the falchion scores 150 threats. On re-rolls, he confirms 22.5 of them. (If I can multiply in my head.) He gets an extra 112.5 damage from crits, for a total of 3612.5.

The guy with the greatsword scores 100 threats. On re-rolls, he confirms 10 of them. He gets an additional 70 damage from crits, for a total of 4970.

The guy with the scythe scores 50 threats. On re-rolls, he confirms 2.5 of them. He scores 37.5 damage from criticals, for a total of 3537.5 damage.

Now, do you see why I call the Greatsword the King of Weapons? :D

KoDT69
2007-01-08, 01:00 PM
How about a rubber chicken filled with the alchemists fire? The enemy regardless of INT score could just be shocked that you would dare swing a rubber chicken then *BOOM* Burn baby burn!

CuthroatMcGee
2007-01-08, 01:02 PM
My personal preferences are the pike (come on! Set vs. charge, trip, 1.5 damage, and 2 kinds of damage? What's not to like!), the repeating heavy crossbow because it sounds so scary, a bastard sword wielded either way, and the siangham. I don't know why the siangham, but i like it.

Ramza00
2007-01-08, 01:08 PM
In 3.5, the vorpal quality only triggers on a natural 20. If your vorpal weapon is 18-20/2x and you roll a 19, it's just a regular critical.
Since you already cut off the person's head getting another 4x damage is kinda meaningless. It doesn't matter if you are using a x4 weapon or an x2 weapon if you vorpal goes off.

TempusCCK
2007-01-08, 05:04 PM
Spike chains are cool and all but I'm still a bigger fan of Kusari-Gama. If anyone is interested on how it is actually used... linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9FI5ppsyM). To me, that is so much cooler than just picking up a chain with spikes on it.

I don't use spiked chains in my campaigns because in real life (and in my head) they would be so damn impractical. The best you could hope to accomplish is swinging it around alot and keeping them away for a while. I watched that video for the kusari-gama and that looked pretty impractical too, it's so long, once someone closed distance it would pretty much just be a nuisance.


Someone might think it's bad to let real-life perceptions and reality interfere with their game, but I honestly do think that the spike chain in 3.5 is a horribly overpowered weapon.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-01-08, 05:20 PM
Out of curiosity, do you also eliminate the Scythe and Double weapons? 'Cause I would if I was going for realism.

I mean, Dire Flail? How could you not injure yourself with that?

TempusCCK
2007-01-08, 05:38 PM
I could see using a double weapon with the proper technique, maybe like the orc double axe, but a dire flail would only be non-injuring moving tornado style, which is honestly, too silly for me even to consider.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-08, 05:39 PM
Out of curiosity, do you also eliminate the Scythe and Double weapons? 'Cause I would if I was going for realism.

I mean, Dire Flail? How could you not injure yourself with that?

You are aware that farmers used scythes as improvised weaponry in the middle ages, yes? Just like they used sledgehammers, pitchforks, grain threshers, and other farming implements.

Jimp
2007-01-08, 05:46 PM
My favourite weapon would have to be the shikomi-zue from Oriental Adventures. I love it for stealthy characters who tend to dabble in the social scene. It basically looks like a normal walking stick, but can be treated as a staff in battle AND you can twist it to reveal a blade.
One of my favourite PCs was an Assassin who used a spell-storing one. Was almost king by default until the campaign kinda died out.
Also, I'm aware that it's not exactly stastically optimal :P

Rigeld2
2007-01-08, 05:58 PM
Not much beats a warmace in two hands when you have levels in exotic weapon master. Thats 1d12 plus double strength (not strength and a half!). Of couse you're a goliath, and have monkey grip, so its now 4d6 plus double a huge strength... too bad its only 20/x2 on a crit... and gives a -1 to AC... actually... warmaces are pretty dodgy...

...pass me that dwarven waraxe over there...

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip dont stack.

Deepblue706
2007-01-08, 06:02 PM
Sword-chucks, yo.

Ramza00
2007-01-08, 06:30 PM
I don't use spiked chains in my campaigns because in real life (and in my head) they would be so damn impractical. The best you could hope to accomplish is swinging it around alot and keeping them away for a while. I watched that video for the kusari-gama and that looked pretty impractical too, it's so long, once someone closed distance it would pretty much just be a nuisance.

Someone might think it's bad to let real-life perceptions and reality interfere with their game, but I honestly do think that the spike chain in 3.5 is a horribly overpowered weapon.
The previous video had far too long of chain to be practical.
Something with a shorter chain is more practal such as these videos.

The kusarigama has a handle that is between 30-40 cms (11.8-15.8 inches), a blade on the handle of 15 cms (5.9 inches), and a chain that is 2 meters to 2.5 meters though it can get as long as 3.5 meters (6.5, 8.2, 11.5 feet).

The thing you have to understand about the kursai gama is that it effectively has two different attacks with two different distances, either one by itself is ineffective but together its deadly.

The chain has more range than a sword, and a person with a sword is not going to be wanting to block the chain/ball due to the fact that if he does there is a good chance the chain wraps around the sword, if this happens the solider is dead. If the chain wraps around the sword, the ball would provide enough weight to break the weapons/balance of the sword swing. During this time the person with the kursai gama would rush in and get within short range distance. At this time the longer blade of the sword is actually less effective than the smaller weapon of the kursai gama, which is like a dagger small and able to make vital strikes. You can do a similar tactic instead of wrapping around the opponents weapon you go for there legs and pull them forward making them loose there balance.

Thus the swordsmith has to stay out of range of the chain, yet close enough that he is able to charge as soon as the person with the kursai gama misses for if he misses that is his oppurtunity to strike. It is effectively a game of can the person with the kursai gami trap the weapon of the swordsmith first, if not he looses the charge, if he is successful he wins the charge.

Two better video of the kursai gama are these. You get a better since of how the battle goes because they are at near real life fighting speed instead of half speed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2244058180608921644&q=kusari-gama&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3875023065027167843&q=kusari-gama&hl=en
The length of the chain, is dependent on what discipline and thus techniques you use with the kursai gama. These techniques determine how you attack with the kursai gama. Regardless it wasn't very useful in a large battlefield for you didn't have the ability to control your enviroment that well and the chain would just get in the way. Additionally the kursai gama is used most effectively against single targets and thus there are the most disciplines devoted to use it in this way though there is one discipline if I recall that is designed to fight multiple opponents with this weapon.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-08, 07:57 PM
The main problem with the spiked chain is the picture in the PHB. It's ridicuously heavy and spiky all over, so you'd be prone to hurting yourself. Complete Warrior has a much better image, of an orc using one vs. a hag. You'd be hitting your opponent with the heavy, sharp ends of the weapon, for the most part.

I may be misremembering from some bad movie, but isn't there a martial art variant that uses ropes with weights? Using your body to set up a lot of momentum that you then hit your opponent with?

Thexare Blademoon
2007-01-08, 08:13 PM
Plenty of discussion on "best" has already come up, so I'll just go with favorites...

Simple:
Dagger (I don't get mad. I get stabby.)
Quarterstaff

Martial:
Scimitar
Rapier
Longsword
Light Flail
Halberd

Exotic:
Say what you want, but I like double-ended weaponry. Two-bladed sword, dire mace, orcish double axe... but there's a point where I say "I'm sorry, I just don't see how this works," and that's the Dire Flail. See, I like to be able to envision a character actually using a weapon, and the Dire Flail makes even less sense than most double weapons I've seen...

TempusCCK
2007-01-08, 08:17 PM
Eh, those videos were almost as bad as the first, like I said, the best you could hope for was to swing it around alot and hope that nobody gets close enough to use a real weapon. If they get within range to strike with something like a longsword, you're pretty much screwed. No way that chain can make a swing at that distance (not unless you're reasonably prepared, and you probably won't be), and now they've got the drop on reach with a longer blade.

Nah, you can keep your fancy impractical chain stuff.

Catharsis
2007-01-08, 08:53 PM
The guy with the falchion scores 150 threats. On re-rolls, he confirms 22.5 of them. (If I can multiply in my head.)
Apparently not. If 70% of the melee attacks hit, he has a 70% chance of confirming his threats, yielding 105 crits. That's 10.5% of his swings! Total damage is 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 5 = 4025. For the greatsword, 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 7 = 5390. I'm not calculating this for the scythe because I don't like it. ;)

These numbers are greatly misleading, though. The actual damage values are not 5 and 7, there are bonuses too. At Level 1 with a two-handed Strength bonus of 6, the total damage output is 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 11 = 8855 for the falchion, 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 13 = 10010 for the greatsword. Much less difference now. At level 8, with a Strength bonus of 9 and an enhancement bonus of 2, it's 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 16 = 12880 for the falchion and 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 18 = 13860 for the greatsword. The difference in expected damage stays the same, but the higher the base damage, the less relevant it is.

Personally, I prefer the falchion over the greatsword for sheer not-everybody's-taking-it value.

Norsesmithy
2007-01-08, 11:23 PM
Ramza00, I am sorry, but in both of those videos the swordsmen would inexplicably pause whenever an attempt to disarm or entangle is made. They stood still when their legs were attacked, they ceased attacking when the chain was aimed at their swords, this simply is poor realism. I think that the unarmoured Kurisagama user would have been royally ****ed if this wasn't true.

erewhon
2007-01-08, 11:50 PM
Apparently not. If 70% of the melee attacks hit, he has a 70% chance of confirming his threats, yielding 105 crits. That's 10.5% of his swings! Total damage is 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 5 = 4025. For the greatsword, 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 7 = 5390. I'm not calculating this for the scythe because I don't like it. ;)

LOL! :) Scythe hater! :D

Sure, catch me in my error before I got a chance to fix it, sheesh! :)

Yes, I got my head addled and calculated the confirm roll as if you needed a second crit. <sigh>

Your numbers are correct. My defense is, they still show the greatsword with a punishingly huge advantage. :D




These numbers are greatly misleading, though.

I beg to differ. :)


The actual damage values are not 5 and 7, there are bonuses too. At Level 1 with a two-handed Strength bonus of 6, the total damage output is 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 11 = 8855 for the falchion, 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 13 = 10010 for the greatsword. Much less difference now. 1155 points of damage with an 18 strength, versus 1365 without. I wouldn't call that "much less difference" I'd call that "inching slowly and painfully toward still being way in second place. :D Yes, the percentage is different as well, because the basis is much larger.

At this rate, the falchion would pull even at about, what, Str 40? :D

More importantly, the "blowthrough issue" starts coming into play when you start getting such massive bonuses. IE, when the occasional crit hammers home, it's exactly as likely to be against that pesky orc as it is the BBEG. The last 30+ points of the orc crit is wasted damage.


At level 8, with a Strength bonus of 9 and an enhancement bonus of 2, it's 1000 * (70% + 10.5%) * 16 = 12880 for the falchion and 1000 * (70% + 7%) * 18 = 13860 for the greatsword. The difference in expected damage stays the same, but the higher the base damage, the less relevant it is.
Not so much. The falchion is doing less damage for the majority of its hits and only inching toward parity on the more common big hits. Granted, as critical dealers go, the falchion is a darn good one, as it only has a 2x modifier and as big a range as can be gotten. Thus, it gets lots of crits and they are not inordinately huge, lowering the "blowthrough" issue.

If you look at the scythe (sorry! I like it!) the numbers with your final case become: 1000 swings, 700 hits, 50 threats, 35 criticals. Avg damage is 5+2+9 = 16, but those criticals are huge 64 pointers. Base damage is 10,640, and the 35 crits add 2240, for a total of 12,880. The scythe appears to match the falchion exactly, but because of the "lumpiness" of the output, it's really not very even at all. Since the crits come when they may, a large portion of that crit output will be lost.

And even if it wasn't, the greatsword is STILL ahead in damage output by almost a thousand points!

"King of Weapons." :D



Personally, I prefer the falchion over the greatsword for sheer not-everybody's-taking-it value.And there, in a nutshell, is the only reason that matters. Happy curvy carving to you! :D

Turcano
2007-01-09, 12:27 AM
You are aware that farmers used scythes as improvised weaponry in the middle ages, yes? Just like they used sledgehammers, pitchforks, grain threshers, and other farming implements.

And routinely served as cannon fodder against people with real weapons. :smalltongue:

Anyway, I'm a fan of greatswords, longswords, and rapiers, depending on party role. I'm old-fashioned like that.

Ontomancer
2007-01-09, 03:38 AM
You're all wrong. The best weapon ever was the original printing of the Mercurial Greatsword in Sword and Fist: 2d8 slashing, x4.

Yes, it was fixed in almost no time and no longer exists in 3.5, but for a brief, shining period there, I had an Air Genasi Fighter using the old monkey grip rules in that same book (the ones with no prohibition on dual-wielding monkey gripped weapons) to use two of the damn things at once. Sure, he had a -6 to attack with both, but screw it! each one could hit for 64 with no strength bonuses on a maxed crit, and by the time he was shelved, he could attack 5 times on a FAA.

Yeah, he pretty much broke the campaign when he soloed a Green Dragon in 5 rounds (Air Genasi not having to breathe = gg breath weapon), but it was fun while it lasted. For me.

A close second would be the Bladed Gauntlet from the same book (1d6 slashing, 17-20 x2). Man that book got hit with some errata in a hurry, didn't it?

As for legal weapons in the game, i gotta go with the halberd. Piercing or slashing damage, 1d10 x3, can set it against a charge, trip with it, and you can take Spinning Halberd from CW to smack people with the blunt end. Plus, in reality it's an incredibly versatile weapon, combining all the best aspects of a spear, axe, and quarterstaff, and has complex combat disciplines built around it that I sadly have no links for.

axraelshelm
2007-01-09, 03:56 AM
glaive or any pole arm just because i like them in real life and in game after a few feats from the dragon compandium. i now have a reach of 15 and i can fight up close all in one weapon.

Kaerou
2007-01-09, 05:23 AM
I like shortswords and spears.

yes i know.. nothing crazy awesome, they're simple weapons that i prefer concept wise than swinging around chains and horribly pointy things that are as liable to hurt me as my opponent.

petak
2007-01-09, 05:28 AM
I have a daggerspell shaper with a nice pair of wounding daggers.. a modfier of CON per round isnt totally bad. He is matched up with a goliath with a goliath hammer. He once critted a lvl 1 kobold, SPLAT!

Pienterekaak
2007-01-09, 08:24 AM
Sword chucks!!
the perfect weapon

Chris_Chandler
2007-01-09, 10:13 AM
I tend to gravitate toward similar weapons, but characters will sometimes dictate different styles.

Conceptually speaking I like the:

Quarterstaff (whirling big stick of doom! It's the classic)
morningstarr (an excellent second weapon)
dagger (small and versatile)
shortsword (paired for twf goodness)
rapier (a good light-fighting choice)
greatsword (my flavor of "big smashy")
Halberd (more versatile than the greatsword)
Guisarme (for when the Halberd just can't get there - with spiked guantlets)r
Composite Longbow (just plain good)
Heavy Crossbow (excellent for the "one shot and go" tactic with a closing tank)


I'm really not all that fond of wasting a feat (esp. with non-fighters) just so I can use one single weapon, and pretty much every exotic weapon doesn't make it worth my while. I conceptually like the dwarven warpike, and some of the "monk style" weapons are interesting, but most exotics make me wince. The double weapons are goofy/insult my suspension of disbelief, and the spiked chain is just cheesy. I'll kludge together the guisarme/guantlet every time rather than deal with this monstrosity.

Now, I've had plenty of characters make odd choices in regard to weapon selection. It's almost always a stylistic choice. In the end, the weapon was almost always the "right choice" for the character, even if it might not have been the best mechanical decision.

Catharsis
2007-01-09, 11:26 AM
Your numbers are correct. My defense is, they still show the greatsword with a punishingly huge advantage. :D
We haven't even touched Improved Crit/Keen yet. You just know a falchion wielder will go for that. So, at 8th level:

1000 * (70% + 21%) * 16 = 14560 for the falchion and 1000 * (70% + 14%) * 18 = 15120. That's a 3.7% advantage for the greatsword. Not worth the style and the satisfaction of those extra crit events. :smallamused:

Amphimir Míriel
2007-01-09, 11:29 AM
Damn. I hope that was sarcasm. Some of those weapons are not even worth the exotic weapon proficiency (Dire Pick, Full Blade). One's incredibly underpowered (Monkey Gripped... anything). Only the Elven Courtblade, Spiked Chain, and Dwarven Warpike are worth the feats, and the EC is only so for a few very specific build... and most of the best parts of the other two can be replicated without the EWP feat with a Guisarme and armour spikes.


I was only half-kidding. The Spiked Chain is indeed currently banned in my campaign, and since we only play Core + Psionics we don't see any of the others.
Call me a freak, but I have issues with poorly conceived, impossible weapons...



You know, most people use fancy wacky weaponry not because it's powerful, but because they like the image of a dude with a crazy weapon running about saving the world. Not cheesy... roleplaying.


Mhmmm... ok, if your reason for it is roleplaying I might allow a wacky weapon...

...as long as it's not spiked chain! :smallwink:

No, seriously though, I might include the Spiked chain if the player really wanted to, but then I would rule that in the case of a natural 1, the weapon hits the owner for half the regular damage (or something like that).



Anyway, my votes for best weapons are going to have to go to the Light Crossbow, the Rapier, and the Dagger... but I love skill monkeys, so there you go.


See? There you go! Three excellent (yet "kosher") weapon choices!


As a DM, I never liked the look or feel of a spiked chain... So you will not find one in my campaign and if someone does go and make one, I will consider it an improvised weapon and not that attrocity that is in the manual right now.

That said, I like the scythe simple because you occasionally do 80-100 damage with it. That's a tough fort save for nearly anything.


I don't use spiked chains in my campaigns because in real life (and in my head) they would be so damn impractical. The best you could hope to accomplish is swinging it around alot and keeping them away for a while. I watched that video for the kusari-gama and that looked pretty impractical too, it's so long, once someone closed distance it would pretty much just be a nuisance.

Someone might think it's bad to let real-life perceptions and reality interfere with their game, but I honestly do think that the spike chain in 3.5 is a horribly overpowered weapon.

Wow, I'm not the only one! I was starting to think I'm being too strict...

Edit: Ah! Someone mentioned sword-chuks... I think the spiked chain is just as ridiculous

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-09, 11:39 AM
There seems to be two camps developing spiked chainers and anti-spiked chainers (my blanket terms for those who like bizarre exotics and those who don't) I like some of the weird stuff I would be more interested in them for role playing purposes than anything else. I have never used a spiked chain but I have seen some old martial arts movies where they used chains. And as silly as they were it seemed like a pretty cool weapon some of the exotics are a little silly and I agree with many of you on the dire flail and Gyrspike.

Missing Shoe
2007-01-09, 11:56 AM
Eh, those videos were almost as bad as the first, like I said, the best you could hope for was to swing it around alot and hope that nobody gets close enough to use a real weapon. If they get within range to strike with something like a longsword, you're pretty much screwed. No way that chain can make a swing at that distance (not unless you're reasonably prepared, and you probably won't be), and now they've got the drop on reach with a longer blade.

Nah, you can keep your fancy impractical chain stuff.

Ramza00, I am sorry, but in both of those videos the swordsmen would inexplicably pause whenever an attempt to disarm or entangle is made. They stood still when their legs were attacked, they ceased attacking when the chain was aimed at their swords, this simply is poor realism. I think that the unarmoured Kurisagama user would have been royally ****ed if this wasn't true.

First, I believe these movies were simply to show what it is capable of doing, thus why they left themselves open.

Second, I think someone has been tainted by Hollywood.:smalltongue: The sad fact is the stuff you saw in those videos are more realistic than what you see in movies or tv (kill bill for example). I'm sure I dont have to tell you that those fights are choreographed. In actual fights, you dont know what your opponent is going to or when. Combat tends to move a lot slower and people make mistakes. Someone leaving their legs open is completely viable.

Think about if you had never seen of one of these weapons before and you were facing an opponent wielding one while you had a longsword. Swinging chains cause an amazing distraction, and if your not ready for it, this weapon could get the best of you. (one reason the flail is such a nasty weapon in real life, plus it can negate shield cover by sneaking around it)

And as Ramza said, you werent planning to take out armies with this weapon. This is an obvious rogue weapon. So if your favorite class is barbarian, this isnt the weapon for you.

I dont expect to woo you over but hopefully you will admit this weapon has potential.:smallsmile:

TempusCCK
2007-01-09, 01:41 PM
It's the exact opposite of a Hollywood taint, that's the kind of thing you put into Hollywood to make it look cool, (Kill Bill anyone?) not the kind of thing you'd use if you were actually trying to win a fight.

Besides, you can't claim that having never seen a chain before would intimidate you into failure, it's not that amazing, any young adventurous child has at some point swung a jumprope around in a way that would be similiar in some way shape or form to what you'd be doing with a spike chain. Anyone with a brain won't be too amazed to fight, because logically the formula comes out to:

Big spinny thing being used as a weapon, therefore probably made of some hurty-type material, let's not get hit by that.

Anyone with any brains as a warrior would also have some sort of range weapon, and it's a helluva lot easier to put away a sword and throw something/shoot something than it would be deal with such a long chain when switching. In which case you're completely screwed, unless you have a shield, but if you're using a spiked chain you don't.

Morty
2007-01-09, 02:50 PM
You are aware that farmers used scythes as improvised weaponry in the middle ages, yes? Just like they used sledgehammers, pitchforks, grain threshers, and other farming implements.

Yeah, but these scythes were altered so there were more like house-made glavies. It was mentioned in some other threads.

Pegasos989
2007-01-09, 03:00 PM
BTW, on a topic of Greatsword vs. Falchion

First, let's have a 13th level build.

Human barbarian 11/Fighter 2
STR 16(base)+2(levels)+8(rage because of feats)+4(item) = 30
Feats: Power attack, Improved sunder, Improved bull rush, Power critical, Leap attack, Improved critical, Shock trooper, Combat brute, Reckless rage
+3 weapon (greater magic weapon from a friendly spellcaster)

So Greatsword damage would be 2d6 +18 (17/x2) and falchion 2d4 +18 (15/x2). For simplicity, I will just refer to greatsword as 25 and falchion as 23.


Situation 1 - Normal fight. Falchion wins by 1.4%
Now, let's start counting everything on 100 attacks. Assume that 70% of them hit and due to power critical, 90% of threats are confirmed.
This means that greatsword has 30 misses, 18 criticals and 52 normal hits.
Falchion has 30 misses, 27 criticals and 43 normal hits.
Greatsword deals 2200 damage, Falchion deals 2231.

Situation 2 - charge. Falchion wins by 6.4%
With +2 to attacks, we will have 80% hits and 100% confirms. With power attacking with leap attack and shock trooper, we will get extra 36 points of damage, thus having greatsword deal 61 and falchion dealing 59.
Greatsword 20 misses, 20 criticals, 60 hits.
Falchion 20 misses, 30 criticals, 50 hits.
In 100 charges, Greatsword deals 6100, falchion 6490

Situation 3 - Full attack with power attack for -2: Falchion wins by 3.4%
It is +6 damage with combat brute. Now 60% of attacks hit, 80% of crits get confirmed. Greatsword deals 31 damage, falchion 29
Greatsword 40 missess, 16 crits, 44 hits
Falchion 40 misses, 24 crits, 36 hits
Greatsword 2356, Falchion 2436



So whenever you have high damage mod (high levels), falchion wins. If you have low one, greatsword would win.


EDIT: Oh, just realized that my build has a feat or two to much so this wouldn't work in a level or two more. Also, in charge, they would each deal +3 damage (so falchion would win even more). However, those are minor things not affecting too much. The result stays - with high mods - those you start getting after 10 with well built (=a bit min/maxed) character, falchion is better. I could demonstrate it with paladin (whose smite is multiplied) or other class too but well, this already shows it.

Prince_of_Blades
2007-01-09, 03:37 PM
Personal favorite: the dagger. There is so much stuff you can do with it!

For falchion vs. greatsword:

If both weapons have a flat bonus of 39 points of damage, average damage is equal. However, keen or improved critical reduces the necessary bonus to 19. Going to have to check how power critical affects that bonus.

Norsesmithy
2007-01-09, 04:55 PM
Think about if you had never seen of one of these weapons before and you were facing an opponent wielding one while you had a longsword. Swinging chains cause an amazing distraction, and if your not ready for it, this weapon could get the best of you. (one reason the flail is such a nasty weapon in real life, plus it can negate shield cover by sneaking around it)
I can see the potential of a combo chain and kama weapon, but I think that the best method (and perhaps the historical method) would be to use it like a flail in one hand and a kama (or axe) in the other.

The fact is that real fights, whether armoured sparing, a bar fight, or a knife fight are the opposite of what you think. They aren't slow, if you hesitate at all you die. I have been in two real fights with people who intended to kill me, and I won both, thankfully without killing them myself, and I can tell you that that sort of fight is far faster than any hollywood fight that pretended to be realistic.

When a man comes at you with a weapon that you are unsure of its capabilities, you need to not wait and see what he does, but rather use the weapons/techniques that you know on him first.

Missing Shoe
2007-01-09, 05:07 PM
Besides, you can't claim that having never seen a chain before would intimidate you into failure, it's not that amazing, any young adventurous child has at some point swung a jumprope around in a way that would be similiar in some way shape or form to what you'd be doing with a spike chain. Anyone with a brain won't be too amazed to fight, because logically the formula comes out to:

Big spinny thing being used as a weapon, therefore probably made of some hurty-type material, let's not get hit by that.

You are thinking of the wrong kind of distraction. Its not an awe inspiring distraction, its a "Ok, not only do I have to pay attention to his body movements and the movements of his sharp thingy as normal, but now there is this constant moving chain that can be used to disable, trip, reach, etc". Its the same as fighting someone with two weapons. It doesn't sound that difficult when talking about it, but put in the situation, that extra threat makes combat increasingly difficult. Same concept as flanking to a point.

The best suggestion I can make is to actually pick up a martial art or even gather some friends, make some foam weapons (internet has all the instructions) and actually participate in combat. Then maybe you will understand what I mean by the swinging chain being a distraction in combat:smallsmile:



Anyone with any brains as a warrior would also have some sort of range weapon, and it's a helluva lot easier to put away a sword and throw something/shoot something than it would be deal with such a long chain when switching. In which case you're completely screwed, unless you have a shield, but if you're using a spiked chain you don't.This argument is hardly valid. You are assuming that they are sufficient distance apart that the warrior would have time to switched to a ranged weapon and shoot before entering melee. In this case, the other person would not be using their kusari-gama. It was only used in melee situations, specifically when they could use reach. It would be just as easy to drop their weapon and throw something. But I'm going to stop there because the argument you brought up is too situational to be discussed really. It more comes down to what other things are the people carrying.



The fact is that real fights, whether armoured sparing, a bar fight, or a knife fight are the opposite of what you think. They aren't slow, if you hesitate at all you die. I have been in two real fights with people who intended to kill me, and I won both, thankfully without killing them myself, and I can tell you that that sort of fight is far faster than any hollywood fight that pretended to be realistic.

Believe me, I understand what you mean, but it seemed fast because you were in it. Outsiders perceive it as slower because they have more time to analyze. The difference between the real fight and hollywood is they make their fights fast to the outsiders as well because people these days have attention spans that can only be measured in nanoseconds. :smalltongue: Actual beginner level sword fighting is much slower than anything ive seen in recent movies. More advanced sword fighting is not incredibly faster, just more precise and accurate than beginners. Anyone in kill bill, for example, is obviously epic level. And sadly, epic levels hardly happen in real life.

Norsesmithy
2007-01-09, 06:07 PM
You misunderstand me, and I realise I may not have been perfectly clear, but he main fight I talk about when I say fights are fast is a fight I was in with a methhead, where he stabbed me with a fillet knife. The fight was in slow motion to my perception, I was able to get a arm between my face and the knife, despite the fact that I was almost incredulous at the weight and sluggishness of my arm. I then grabbed his knife hand with my right arm, and shattered his arm by twisting. Witnesses, including my brother say that he was down before my blood hit the ground. (warning, hyperbole)

Then I curb stomped him when he tried to get the knife with his other hand.

The other more recent fight was a spill over from a bar fight at a wedding reception.

Irregardless, a real fight, for blood, not points (like all modern sword fights) is going to be fast and vicious. I have also fought "point fights" against recreational swordsmen, like ARMA men, and though they tend to be faster and more realistic than kendo practitioners, they are still slower than men who have actually experienced combat, whether it be a bar-fight with chair legs, knife fight, marine hand to hand training, or, I presume, a real sword fight.

TempusCCK
2007-01-09, 11:58 PM
You can't say that having reach will make it distracting because you have to watch more than one thing, because for a chain to be effective in combat you need to have a proper amount of space and distance to swing it.

If they swing and you avoid, you don't have to worry about their body becoming a distraction for at least the few seconds it would take them to close the distance, and that's more than enough time, assuming you've avoided the chain, get back out of range for any close melee attack.

Trip and disarm aren't a problem because they're the worst things about the use of chains in D&D, how exactly do you trip someone who's watching your big spinny chain? Swing for his legs, he jumps, swing for the middle of his legs, you jump back (assuming that you're of moderate intelligence, enough to know to stay away from the heavier parts of the chain). Hell, even if someone did swing for your legs and you were able to move far enough within it's reach, it would just do a lazy loop, which someone can just step out of.

Don't even talk to me about disarming, that's so inconcievable in a real fight the thought of it being considered viable in anything other than in an RPG makes me ashamed for humanity. A weapon is smaller and a more difficult target than a person, especially if the person is moving, and a chain actually hitting it, let alone wrapping around it enough to be able to pull on it is, as I've said, completely inconcievable.

Makes for great story and great fung-fu legend, but it scores a big fat zero practically.

Also, the reason why it would be more practical to drop a sword and draw a range weapon is because of the sheer mass of weapon you're dealing with. You're telling me that 3 foot of steel is just as easy to handle quickly as 5-10 feet of chain? (Anyone else smell something? I think it's poop, mouth-poop.) For something that size and shape, to use it with any amount of speed you need to have built up some momentum with it already, meaning, swinging it, and to just drop it when you see your opponent go for a range weapon would be bad news, like, chucking it off into the distance. Unless of course someone here is under the perception that a length of heavy metal chain can be used accurately and speedily by just moving your arms and body.

Missing Shoe
2007-01-10, 01:32 AM
You can't say that having reach will make it distracting because you have to watch more than one thing, because for a chain to be effective in combat you need to have a proper amount of space and distance to swing it.

If they swing and you avoid, you don't have to worry about their body becoming a distraction for at least the few seconds it would take them to close the distance, and that's more than enough time, assuming you've avoided the chain, get back out of range for any close melee attack.

Again, try to put yourself in the situation. Just think of how much you need to pay attention to to be an effect swordfighter. Now on top of it, add a weapon that is flexible and is constantly moving. Its a lot more to take in than you are giving it credit for.

Ever seen people use the 'step step' rule in sword fighting? your opponent steps, you step. Thats the concept that is used in most sword fighting when taking offense, its no different with this weapon.



Trip and disarm aren't a problem because they're the worst things about the use of chains in D&D, how exactly do you trip someone who's watching your big spinny chain? Swing for his legs, he jumps, swing for the middle of his legs, you jump back (assuming that you're of moderate intelligence, enough to know to stay away from the heavier parts of the chain). Hell, even if someone did swing for your legs and you were able to move far enough within it's reach, it would just do a lazy loop, which someone can just step out of.
Ever played a fighting game? There is a concept they use that is semi realistic. When someone starts swinging a weapon around, they build up momentum. Its hard to stop. If you are in mid swing, its not the easiest to stop your swing and jump - in any direction, especially without falling. The tactic with any trip or disable is wait till they reach the point in which they cannot easily return and take advantage of it...just like they were practicing in the videos.

As for the lazy loop, thats why it was such a well designed weapon. The weight at the end doubles as a way to secure the loop. You start by swinging the chain to build momentum. When the opportunity arises you use the force you built up to loop around your target. The goal is to have the chain wrap around itself, so when you tug, the weight prevents it from moving easily. Even if it a little lose, it slows the ability to react, whether it be stepping or use of the arm, thus leaving an open spot for the kama to be used...just like in the videos.



Don't even talk to me about disarming, that's so inconcievable in a real fight the thought of it being considered viable in anything other than in an RPG makes me ashamed for humanity. A weapon is smaller and a more difficult target than a person, especially if the person is moving, and a chain actually hitting it, let alone wrapping around it enough to be able to pull on it is, as I've said, completely inconcievable.
Ever watched some good ol jackie chan? You know that move he does where he grabs the gun and takes it and returns to a position where he has it pointing at them? That is an actual move, that is easier than one would think to pull off. A sword provides a standard target to wrap around, to actually wrap around it is the easy part. Hitting it is the challenge - yes you are right. However, the key, again, is to wait for the right opportunity. If they are focusing on the kama the chain can catch them off guard.

Once you have it wrapped around the weapon, the rest is easy. The thing about the human body is, it cant move in every possible direction. To prove my point: clench a fist in your right hand. Now place your thumb of your left hand on the backside of your right, between the pinky and ring finger. With all you left hand fingers, grasp your right hand thumb. Now push with a considerable amount of force with your left thumb, while pulling with your fingers. If done correctly, it should get much harder to maintain a fist and a lot of pressure is put on the wrist. Same concept with a chain. Pull their weapon so they bend a way they're not suppose to bend. For example pull the sword down and left. This concept is abuse extensively in self defense martial arts (that, and the fine art of groin hitting).



Makes for great story and great fung-fu legend, but it scores a big fat zero practically.

Also, the reason why it would be more practical to drop a sword and draw a range weapon is because of the sheer mass of weapon you're dealing with. You're telling me that 3 foot of steel is just as easy to handle quickly as 5-10 feet of chain? (Anyone else smell something? I think it's poop, mouth-poop.) For something that size and shape, to use it with any amount of speed you need to have built up some momentum with it already, meaning, swinging it, and to just drop it when you see your opponent go for a range weapon would be bad news, like, chucking it off into the distance. Unless of course someone here is under the perception that a length of heavy metal chain can be used accurately and speedily by just moving your arms and body.To drop the weapon after you have it spinning you simply thrust the weight of the chain forward towards the target. If they are close enough, it startles them, possibly hits them. Even if they arent close enough to be hit, the chain loses its momentum when the chain becomes tight. Swinging it forward can be done before they even have the weapon drawn. Although, most likely instead of dropping it, the user would probably grab the sword that was thrown down and take cover - especially if the other person is trying to draw a bow. Now if the other person is forced into melee they are truly screwed.

[hr]

I'm done arguing this topic however. Over the past few posts I have driven my point in over and over, and there really isnt much more to say. Switching to a ranged weapon is to situational to consider, there is a millions factors - what type of ranged weapon, is there cover, is it readied, how far away are they, bla bla. Stepping out of melee isnt easy when the enemy moves with you. Assuming they started in melee, the opponent wont be able to instantly escape. If they started with a lot of distance between them, they wouldnt draw the kusari-gama. Tripping and disarming is a real, whether you believe it is or not. Jumping out the way sounds easy enough on paper but doing it when you are swinging the sword is harder than they make it look.

From here on out the arguments are just going to be rehashes of the previous statements. And you are already taking up a insultive tone with the whole 'poop' thing, which greatly takes away from any point you were trying to make. People result to insults when they are running out of arguments. The only thing worse is trying to compare them to hitler.

You dont have to admit it is a viable weapon, but thats all I'm trying to state. It's as effect as any other dual wielding weapon, it just does something more than cut people.

Avicenex
2007-01-10, 02:32 AM
I'm going to go ahead and agree with Missing_Shoe, who seems to know what he's talking about concerning viable combat. Because my two cents is vorporal or something.

For all the people who ban the spiked chain (or any weapon) because its "not balanced" or "unrealistic," that's silly. I don't care what the fighter's reach is, you can't beat the casters with him. Melee classes really don't need any nerfing. And if you're going with "unrealistic," you might as well ban all magic, eliminate 90% of the monster manual, and burn your books if the thing you find most inconcievable to the point of outlawing is spiked chains.

Also, I've been hearing a whole bunch of shrill screaming lately, and a news report just came on announcing a castastrophic blow to the catgirl population....

Matthew
2007-01-10, 11:05 AM
I don't know, getting rid of Spiked Chain because it strains Suspension of Disbelief or damages Versimillitude, seems perfectly sensible. If it doesn't, no need. I would rather kill a Cat Girl, given the choice.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-01-10, 03:16 PM
Let's see... my favorite weapons:

-The kukri: If I have Martial weapons, chances are there's a kukri somewhere on my person. Yay not being exotic anymore!

-Javelins: I don't know why, but I've become rather fond of throwing pointed sticks. Especially if my character is low level, poor, and still needs something to chuck before closing to melee.

-Battleaxe: Just because I like taking Battleaxe lessons at the rec center.

-Quarterstaff: So humble... so classy.

-Greatclub: If I'm a barbarian, I usually wail on people with a log. It's a kind of therapy for me.

cupkeyk
2007-01-11, 06:24 PM
Falchion, dealing triple your strength modifier in damage fifteen percent of the time is awesome. That's not even keen nor with any special nifty stuff like power attack or whatever.

Hurlbut
2007-01-11, 06:53 PM
Falchion, dealing triple your strength modifier in damage fifteen percent of the time is awesome. That's not even keen nor with any special nifty stuff like power attack or whatever.Uh? a x3 for Falchion? When about all of the sword type weapons in the Core book are x2?

Fax Celestis
2007-01-11, 08:27 PM
Uh? a x3 for Falchion? When about all of the sword type weapons in the Core book are x2?

Two-handing it makes it triple your STR mod about 15% of the time, yes, since THF adds 1.5x your STR bonus.

Hurlbut
2007-01-11, 08:49 PM
You can argue the same for any other two hand weapons and one hand weapons as well.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-11, 08:51 PM
True enough. But that's the only intention I think he could mean.