Swift Hunter Build - Suggestions?

[Valluman]

As the title of the thread says, I am looking for a Swift Hunter build! I'm rather versatile when it comes to said suggestions as well. Mystic Ranger and Shooting Star (with the SotAO feat) are open as well; there's even a wizard in the party for the Shooting Star is that route is suggested. Alternative class features are good too. I have no real direction here, though I know the Animal Companion is kinda gimped, so unless there are ways to 'fix' the animal, I'd prefer to not have it.

Our base is a Human Scout.

[gorfnab]

Swift Hunter Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html)

Are you looking at Ranged or Melee?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Mystic Ranger doesn't even get an animal companion, but you can pick up Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) to get a stronger companion than a Ranger would normally have.

Scout 3 or 4/ Ranger 17 or 16 is fairly standard, though you'll want to dip a single level of Cloistered Cleric to get Travel Devotion, as well as Knowledge Devotion and either the Elf domain for Point-Blank Shot or the Undeath domain for Extra Turning. Travel Devotion allows you to move and full attack, so it's almost necessary unless you can get Pounce.

[Flickerdart]

A melee Scout at low levels can't get enough of Whirling Frenzy and Pounce provided by one level of Barbarian. Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Mystic Wildshape Ranger 15 is a very solid build. You are advised to arrange these levels as follows: Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Scout 4/Ranger 14. The reason is that you get two feats at 6th - the regular feat, for Swift Hunter, and the Scout bonus feat, for Improved Skirmish. Wildshape Mystic Ranger 10 is a more powerful start, but that's because of SotAO and it makes Skirmish kind of pointless.

[Grod_The_Giant]

you'll want to dip a single level of Cloistered Cleric to get Travel Devotion, as well as Knowledge Devotion and either the Elf domain for Point-Blank Shot or the Undeath domain for Extra Turning. Travel Devotion allows you to move and full attack, so it's almost necessary unless you can get Pounce.
It's a good option, but certainly not the only one. Pounce works if you're going for a melee build. Greater Manyshot is a decent ranged option. The best option at higher levels is probably the "10ft five foot step" with a DC 40 Tumble check (from Oriental Adventures). That or the training dummy from the Arms and Equipment guide.

The check isn't that hard to hit: grab Skill Focus, dip a level of exemplar, get the synergy bonus and a masterwork item, and we're talking a check result of 35 at 11th level (when taking ten). With a dex of 20 or more, you're golden. Alternately, an Item Familiar can double your bonus-- combine it with a Belt of Ultimate Athleticism (MIC) and you can probably hit your mark somewhere in the level 6-8 mark, depending on how high your Dex is and how much you spend on magic items.

[Valluman]

Oh darn, I forgot to mention they were an archer. I've looked at the Swift Hunter's Handbook, and I love it as a great resource, but I am unsure what kind of build I want to aim for.

The suggestion of Wild Cohort is actually pretty amazing; it solves the problem of the awful companion. I think I am leaning on something like 4 Scout and then either Shooting Star or Mystic Ranger; both offer nice ACFs and both get essentially all of the lovely features of the Ranger class, sans the Animal Companion. I am not a fan of the one level Cleric dip, though, I believe.

[Valluman]

Hopeful bump? Only one I'll be doing, as to not be spammy.

[Darrin]

Oh darn, I forgot to mention they were an archer. I've looked at the Swift Hunter's Handbook, and I love it as a great resource, but I am unsure what kind of build I want to aim for.


Dictum Mortum's handbook is a little thin on builds. I have some TWF Swift Hunter builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15034748&postcount=12) in the TWF OffHandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15034585), but you said archery, so here's some archery Swift Hunters:

Typical Swift Hunter Archer
Race: Human, Azurin, or Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 4. Swap Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 5.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot. Feat: Greater Manyshot. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6+4.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3)
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.


If you want to max out Skirmish, we can get up to 10d6 with Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 and Improved Skirmish:

10d6 Skirmish Swift Hunter Archer
Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: PB Shot, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot
3) Scout 1. Feat: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Dragon Devotee 1.
8) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 3d6AC+1/5d6AC+3
9) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Manyshot. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
10) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6AC+1/6d6AC+3
11) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 5d6AC+1/7d6AC+3
12) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Gr. Manyshot. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
13) Unseen Seer 3.
14) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 6d6AC+1/8d6AC+3
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot.
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 7d6AC+1/9d6AC+3
17) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
18) Ranger 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2)
19) Ranger 5. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4
20) Spellsword 1.


If you want to fit in Crossbow Sniper:

Crossbow Sniper Swift Hunter Archer
Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion), Human: PB Shot, Bonus: Track. Wild Empathy -> Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion). Favored Enemy: Undead.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot.
3) Scout 1. Feat: Rapid Reload. Skirmish 1d6
4) Fighter 1. Bonus: Weapon Focus: Light Crossbow.
5) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Crossbow Sniper (PHBII). Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance -> Head Endurance (Sandstorm ACF). Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
9) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Bonus: Manyshot (Complete Champion), Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Animal Companion -> Distracting Attack ACF (PHBII) or Spiritual Guide ACF (Complete Champion).
10) Ranger 5. Favored Enemy: Undead again or Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
11) Dragon Devotee 1.
12) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (pick at least 2 divination spells, such as true strike and detect undead).
14) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 5d6AC+2/7d6AC+4
15) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+4
16) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: hunter's eye (PHBII spell)
17) Unseen Seer 3.
18) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4

[magotter]

Darrin's got some good build advice above, but I thought I'd plink down my own two coppers, as I had two builds of my own that vary from his a bit.

First, the Straight Build, which is more likely to get approved by a DM. Unlike other people, though, I simply love a cloistered cleric dip. I always take Oghma as my patron deity, both for access to the domains I need, but also thematically a reason to go seeking Adventure and Knowledge. Knowledge Devotion can give great boosts to attacking strength, and the travel devotion ensures you're going to have zero issue skirmishing every round of every combat and still being able to full attack. 12 Charisma will ensure you have enough to do it all day long, and really is the only caveat to either of these builds.

The Second is the Cheese build. It's crossbow focused, aiming to get Crossbow Sniper. Multiclassing all over means XP penalties, but the class comes out much better in terms of damage. However, unlike the two levels of Highland Stalker Darrin recommends at the high end of the build, I go with my cleric dip and a level in Underdark Fighter for Hit-and-Run (Lose Heavy Armor and Tower Shield Proficiency, gain +2 to Initiative and Dex to damage against Flat-Footed within 30'. In other words, Sudden Strike essentially for free). Additionally, I use multiple Ranger ACFs in the cheese build: Arcane Hunter, since the bonus against casters applies to so many monster/enemy types. Spell-less Ranger track from PHB2 because it gives needed bonus feats, and Distracting Attack in order to apply Hit-and-Run often.


Straight Build:
(1) Scout 1, feat: Point Blank Shot
(2) Cleric 1, Cloistered Cleric ACF, Domains: Fate, Travel, Knowledge. Bonus Feat: Knowledge Devotion
Take Knowledge: Local as a class skill.
(3) Ranger 1, Arcane Hunter ACF, feat: Travel Devotion. Bonus Feat: Track
Favored Enemies (in order): Undead, Elementals, Constructs, Aberrations
(4) Scout 2
(5) Scout 3
(6) Scout 4, Feat: Improved Skirmish, Bonus Feat: Swift Hunter
(7+) Ranger X, (take Ranger up to 20 from here), Bonus Feats: Rapid Shot (Ranger 2), Manyshot (Ranger 6), Imp. Precise Shot (Ranger 11). For Feats, take Imp. Rapidshot at Level 12, and you got free choice at levels 9, 15, and 18.
Total Prowess: Skirmish gives 7d6 damage, +7 AC. 18 BAB, 12/13/8 Saves


Cheese Build:
(1) Scout 1, feat: Point Blank Shot
(2) Cleric 1, Cloistered Cleric ACF, Domains: Fate, Travel, Knowledge. Bonus Feat: Knowledge Devotion
(3) Ranger 1, Arcane Hunter & Spell-less Ranger & Distracting Attack ACF, feat: Travel Devotion
(4) Scout 2
(5) Scout 3
(6) Scout 4, Feat: Improved Skirmish, Bonus Feat: Swift Hunter
(7) Fighter 1, Underdark Fighter ACF, Bonus Feat: Darkstalker (in order to help proc Hit-and-Run a lot)
(8) Ranger 2, Bonus Feat: Rapid Shot
(9) Ranger 3, Feat: Weapon Focus: Crossbow
(10) Ranger 4, Bonus Feat: Crossbow Sniper
(11) Ranger 5
(12) Ranger 6, Feat: Point Blank Shot, Bonus Feat: Manyshot
(13) Dragon Devotee 1
(14) Dragon Devotee 2
(15) Dragon Devotee 3, Feat: Improved Rapid Shot
(16) Dragon Devotee 4
(17) Unseen Seer 1
(18) Unseen Seer 2, Bonus Feat: Silent Spell
(19) Unseen Seer 3
(20) Unseen Seer 4
Total Prowess: Skirmish gives 9d6 damage, +4 AC, 16 BAB, 15/11/10 Saves
plus Dex to Damage with crossbow, and high frequency of making enemies flat-footed. Good luck getting all the tons of ACFs past your GM.



Unless you are single-mindedly focused on delivering as much hurt as physically possible, I really prefer the straight build for a few reasons: Better AC, easier to craft, easier to get past the average GM, fewer books that you need to constantly reference, higher BAB, and definitely less feat intensive.

[Talya]

I highly recommend using the Mystic Ranger in a Swift Hunter build. Even with the delayed casting from multiclassing, the very good ranger spell list comes online much, much earlier for you. Add in Sword of the Arcane Order and Magical Training, and you'll be one hell of a ranged gish without realy sacrificing anything from standard ranger in a skirmish build.

Also, be sure to check the ranger spells from Champions of Ruin.