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View Full Version : Hexer (3.5 Base Class)(PEACH)



gooddragon1
2013-10-27, 10:06 PM
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TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-28, 07:38 PM
Looking over the class, I can't really find much wrong with it. It's a nice support class.

Just a few things.

Maybe it's just me, but this class seems to help people just as much as hinder them, so I'm not sure about the name Hexer, because Hexes typically don't help people. But that could just be me.

For shifting aura, maybe specify that you gain (points invested X 10) feet increase in movement speed. Because as it stands now. I could say "I have have a movement speed of 30ft, so with 1 point invested, I gain 10ft of movement." or I COULD say "I have a movement of 6 squares, so I gain 10 squares extra movement with 1 point invested." obviously anyone who says the latter is silly and incorrect because movement speed is always in terms of feet, but still ...


As far as smite goes, I don't feel like the name fits the theme of the class. Maybe change the name to something like "Woeful Strike"? And then mention that is a treated as being the Smite class feature for the purpose of Smite related feats.

gooddragon1
2013-10-28, 07:55 PM
Looking over the class, I can't really find much wrong with it. It's a nice support class.

Just a few things.

Maybe it's just me, but this class seems to help people just as much as hinder them, so I'm not sure about the name Hexer, because Hexes typically don't help people. But that could just be me.

For shifting aura, maybe specify that you gain (points invested X 10) feet increase in movement speed. Because as it stands now. I could say "I have have a movement speed of 30ft, so with 1 point invested, I gain 10ft of movement." or I COULD say "I have a movement of 6 squares, so I gain 10 squares extra movement with 1 point invested." obviously anyone who says the latter is silly and incorrect because movement speed is always in terms of feet, but still ...


As far as smite goes, I don't feel like the name fits the theme of the class. Maybe change the name to something like "Woeful Strike"? And then mention that is a treated as being the Smite class feature for the purpose of Smite related feats.

Yeah, the hexes are mainly an alteration of reality for the purpose of this class which can be good or bad.

Suggested changes implemented. I just couldn't think of a good name besides smite.

Zaydos
2013-10-31, 05:20 PM
Looking over the class.

Nothing seems to broken, although the aura of balance is probably notably stronger than the other two. The passive buffing is interestingly different from a bard's but can't be as optimized and the lowered ceiling lets it work.

The hexing ability itself has the problem of scaling. Even at low levels a variable +1 to pretty much everything is fine, but even at high levels a +10 is too much. I'd suggest slowing it to 1/3rd level due to the ease with which you can reassign it. The offensive use is actually less problematic since a save negates and although some of these are powerful for at-will effects they stop short of a save or lose (although may enable those).

Overall I'd say it looks like it might be a rather fun static buffer with the ability to wade into melee as some active ability.

gooddragon1
2013-10-31, 05:24 PM
Looking over the class.

Nothing seems to broken, although the aura of balance is probably notably stronger than the other two. The passive buffing is interestingly different from a bard's but can't be as optimized and the lowered ceiling lets it work.

The hexing ability itself has the problem of scaling. Even at low levels a variable +1 to pretty much everything is fine, but even at high levels a +10 is too much. I'd suggest slowing it to 1/3rd level due to the ease with which you can reassign it. The offensive use is actually less problematic since a save negates and although some of these are powerful for at-will effects they stop short of a save or lose (although may enable those).

Overall I'd say it looks like it might be a rather fun static buffer with the ability to wade into melee as some active ability.

Thank you for this. I had thought the +10 might have been a problem but didn't think of the warlock scaling as a solution.

EDIT: On second thought I'll probably just go with 1/3rd progression. It's a bit lower but it can still work. Still, thanks for confirming my suspicion on the +10.

EDIT: Just realized that's what you suggested in the first place. d'oh.

No dead levels yay!

Balanced some of the servant's abilities. Also gave it something (very minor) if it runs out of energy at low levels (can act as a mirror).

ngilop
2013-11-04, 06:47 PM
HOLY MOLY!! i think this class is awesome! its balance is great, middle of the road and themattically appropiate.

My only suggestion would be to give the Hexer some spell like abilities that run off of their Hex Pool..

Like for 1 Hex point they can cast Bless/Doom and for 3 Hex points they can bestow curse, ect etc.

I think that would shore up the class and give them some customization.

gooddragon1
2013-11-07, 06:48 PM
HOLY MOLY!! i think this class is awesome! its balance is great, middle of the road and themattically appropiate.

My only suggestion would be to give the Hexer some spell like abilities that run off of their Hex Pool..

Like for 1 Hex point they can cast Bless/Doom and for 3 Hex points they can bestow curse, ect etc.

I think that would shore up the class and give them some customization.

Thanks for the review and I had thought about giving spells initially but I wanted to try and make it independent of most magic systems.

Also, I'm aiming for tier 3 or at least 4 and I think spell access might push it to much over.

Zaydos
2013-11-07, 06:54 PM
Besides Aura of Balance is already very similar to a Bless/Bane effect, and at-will permanent duration spells is iffy (unless the 3 points are invested until the spell ends in which case it would be odd at least).

gooddragon1
2013-11-07, 07:01 PM
So, without any changes, did I get to tier 3 with this class?

Rebonack
2013-11-07, 08:04 PM
The wording on the 2nd level Servant ability is a little bit obtuse. I would suggest rewriting that ability and working on making it a little bit clearer. Technically not a balance issue, but ease of comprehension is always a plus!

In terms of power this guy certainly falls somewhere between T4 and T3, though I'm not totally sure which. Maybe I'll be able to figure that out talking through it...

Primary Role: Support-skank. With passive combat healing and the ability to toss around some hefty boosts and penalties in a fashion unique from the Bard the Hexer has a well defined primary role on the party. HOWEVER as a buffer/debuffer the Bard beats out the Hexer due to access to a number of nasty hard disables and some scary optimization tricks.

Secondary Role: Melee-bopper. The Smite-esc skill hurts quite a bit and tying it to Con means that the Hexer should have the bulk to survive some action in combat. HOWEVER the Bard can pick up comparable damage with Arcane Strike whilst applying it to multiple attacks and being able to use it more often.

Secondary Role: Trap-monkey. The Hexer can find and disable traps! Combined with his ability to buff skill checks this makes for some great trap-finding prowess. This is the major advantage that the Hexer has over the Bard, though his low skill point gain really eats into his skill selection. The Factotum probably makes for a better Trap-monkey, however they lack the Hexer's nice buffing abilities assuming the Factotum doesn't feel inclined to blow some spell slots.

So where does this guy fall into the tiers? Well...

Cheesecake All Over the Ceiling Tier: Able to do EVERYTHING amazingly well to the point of being game-breaking. Can switch up their game-breaking combo on a day to day basis.
(Not here)
Cheesecake All Over the Floor Tier: Able to do EVERYTHING amazingly well to the point of being game-breaking. However, they're limited by spell selection.
(Not here)
Shot For the Moon and Hit a Satellite Tier: Able to do a few things amazingly well with some potential for breaking the game.
(Not here)
Everyone Tries to Make These Tier: Able to do one thing amazingly well while being okay at other things OR able to do all things really well without being amazing.
(Maybe here)
You're Special Just the Way You Are Tier: Able to do one thing amazingly well and falling flat on everything else OR able to do all many competently, though not standing out in any real way.
(Probably here)
Have You Tried Turning it Off and Back On? Tier: Not even good at doing the thing they're supposed to be good at OR they're so unfocused they have no idea what's going on.
(Not here)
Samurai Tier: Samurai Samurai Samurai Samurai Samurai
(Not here)

At the moment I would say that the Hexer is hovering a bit below the Bard in terms of their power. I would suggest either reinforcing their primary roll or expanding their secondary roles a bit. A few possibilities:

An expanded Skill List and skills per level would help them tremendously. One of the safest ways to improve the flexibility of a class is by giving them a better skill lost so they can contribute meaningfully to a wider range of issues.

Give them some hard disables as they level up. Curse and Greater Curse would fit the flavor quite well and are both potent save-or-lose spells that can shut down problematic foes in a hurry.

Hope that helps!

gooddragon1
2013-11-08, 12:21 AM
The wording on the 2nd level Servant ability is a little bit obtuse. I would suggest rewriting that ability and working on making it a little bit clearer. Technically not a balance issue, but ease of comprehension is always a plus!

In terms of power this guy certainly falls somewhere between T4 and T3, though I'm not totally sure which. Maybe I'll be able to figure that out talking through it...

Primary Role: Support-skank. With passive combat healing and the ability to toss around some hefty boosts and penalties in a fashion unique from the Bard the Hexer has a well defined primary role on the party. HOWEVER as a buffer/debuffer the Bard beats out the Hexer due to access to a number of nasty hard disables and some scary optimization tricks.

Secondary Role: Melee-bopper. The Smite-esc skill hurts quite a bit and tying it to Con means that the Hexer should have the bulk to survive some action in combat. HOWEVER the Bard can pick up comparable damage with Arcane Strike whilst applying it to multiple attacks and being able to use it more often.

Secondary Role: Trap-monkey. The Hexer can find and disable traps! Combined with his ability to buff skill checks this makes for some great trap-finding prowess. This is the major advantage that the Hexer has over the Bard, though his low skill point gain really eats into his skill selection. The Factotum probably makes for a better Trap-monkey, however they lack the Hexer's nice buffing abilities assuming the Factotum doesn't feel inclined to blow some spell slots.

So where does this guy fall into the tiers? Well...

Cheesecake All Over the Ceiling Tier: Able to do EVERYTHING amazingly well to the point of being game-breaking. Can switch up their game-breaking combo on a day to day basis.
(Not here)
Cheesecake All Over the Floor Tier: Able to do EVERYTHING amazingly well to the point of being game-breaking. However, they're limited by spell selection.
(Not here)
Shot For the Moon and Hit a Satellite Tier: Able to do a few things amazingly well with some potential for breaking the game.
(Not here)
Everyone Tries to Make These Tier: Able to do one thing amazingly well while being okay at other things OR able to do all things really well without being amazing.
(Maybe here)
You're Special Just the Way You Are Tier: Able to do one thing amazingly well and falling flat on everything else OR able to do all many competently, though not standing out in any real way.
(Probably here)
Have You Tried Turning it Off and Back On? Tier: Not even good at doing the thing they're supposed to be good at OR they're so unfocused they have no idea what's going on.
(Not here)
Samurai Tier: Samurai Samurai Samurai Samurai Samurai
(Not here)

At the moment I would say that the Hexer is hovering a bit below the Bard in terms of their power. I would suggest either reinforcing their primary roll or expanding their secondary roles a bit. A few possibilities:

An expanded Skill List and skills per level would help them tremendously. One of the safest ways to improve the flexibility of a class is by giving them a better skill lost so they can contribute meaningfully to a wider range of issues.

Give them some hard disables as they level up. Curse and Greater Curse would fit the flavor quite well and are both potent save-or-lose spells that can shut down problematic foes in a hurry.

Hope that helps!

"able to do all many competently, though not standing out in any real way."

I think I'm okay with this definition. Not great, but able to contribute, and not something that will make DM's shirk away in fear of imbalance. Personally, after reading about a DM worried about save or lose on turn 1 in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313093) if I were to include a hard hitter it would be more like:

50% chance to do nothing, 50% chance to act normally for duration equal to hex point investment (max investment equal to a standard hexing). So like 7 rounds by 20th level of not save or kill/lose but save or have a 50% chance to lose a turn each round. Multiple uses would probably have a separately tracked duration but no cumulative effect.

Thanks for showing me that list though and giving me ideas about how to boost it's power. I'm going to playtest it tomorrow and if they say it's too weak I'll bring up these ideas. Though I feel like if you shoot for tier 3.5 or 4 DM's won't be as worried about the homebrew wrecking their game. I want a class that players and DM's can look at and say: "Not broken but can always contribute in a meaningful way."