What ways does a Bone Knight improve a paladin ?

[CyberThread]

Just over all , just looking for info. What does a paladin enjoy, if they go to bone knight, instead of the normal pally PRC's?

[JaronK]

A special control pool and some undead based immunities, mostly. That should be obvious from reading the class though.

Cleric/PrC Paladin of Tyranny/Bone Knight with the Holy Mount feat is much better of course. But maybe that's not your aim.

JaronK

[CyberThread]

yeah not looking for a heavy spellcaster, actually want to stay limited with a low teir range of casting.

[shaikujin]

You gain the ability to still progress the iconic paladin abilities after becoming an ex-paladin (such as taking up non-paladin compatible levels, or becoming a fallen paladin)

:D


The bone armor becoming non-removable later on might be an issue though. I wonder what would happen if you add the "called" property to it and dismiss it...

[TroubleBrewing]

It gets actual class features, for one.

Remove Disease 1/week? Immunity to Fear? C'mon, Paladin. You can do better.

[CyberThread]

well am curious about that, can you double dip. Have blackguard enjoy the fallen paladin abilities, and then have bone knight milk it even more?

[shaikujin]

I believe you can.

Paladin 9/Blackguard 1/Bone Knight 1 :-

Paladin falls at level 9, retains only BAB, Saves, HD and proficiencies.

Blackguard 1 gains the following from ex paladin levels:
- Smite good +2/day,
- Lay on hands 1/day (can be used on fiendish servant, so might be considered a different type of Lay on hands)
- Sneak attack +1d6
- Fiendish summoning
- Undead companion

Bone Knight 1 gains back the following from Paladin levels
- Divine Grace
- Lay on Hands
- Aura of Courage
- Divine Health
- Paladin Spellcasting

What if we used PRC Paladin?

[CyberThread]

PRC Pally is possible, but that still requires knowing divine spells, which is usually...the cleric.


Hmm......I think this does a pretty good job of being a grey guard style character

[JaronK]

Note that a Paladin of Tyranny doesn't fall when he enters the Bone Knight PrC. That can be very useful.

JaronK

[CyberThread]

Paladin Conversion: If you were a paladin or ex-paladin before becoming a bone knight, you can never again advance levels as a paladin, since your association with the undead forever taints you. However, you retain (or regain) certain paladin abilities, including divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, and spellcasting. You cannot detect or smite evil or remove disease. You can use your lay on hands ability to cure living or undead creatures. You lose the service of your special mount (but see the summon skeletal steed ability, below).


Doesn't let you double dip if that was your intention,

[shaikujin]

Paladin Conversion: If you were a paladin or ex-paladin before becoming a bone knight, you can never again advance levels as a paladin, since your association with the undead forever taints you. However, you retain (or regain) certain paladin abilities, including divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine health, and spellcasting. You cannot detect or smite evil or remove disease. You can use your lay on hands ability to cure living or undead creatures. You lose the service of your special mount (but see the summon skeletal steed ability, below).


Doesn't let you double dip if that was your intention,


Can you elaborate what type of double dipping you are referring to?


You can't pick up Paladin levels any more. But you can pick up 9 levels of paladin (to get the blackguard bonus for having 9-10 levels of paladin), then fall.

Those 9 levels of Paladin will count for both Blackguard and Bone Knight. I thought this is the type of double dipping you were referring to.

[CyberThread]

Note that a Paladin of Tyranny doesn't fall when he enters the Bone Knight PrC. That can be very useful.

JaronK


This bit, is what I was talking about.I had thought he was saying you get paladin abilities twice over.

[Xuldarinar]

If you can manage this, I think it would be quite interesting, though it would require taint be in play: Paladin 9/Boneknight 1/Corrupt Avenger 1/Blackguard 5/Boneknight +4

If you lack Taint, and don't feel like converting the PrC at all, you could of course drop the CA level and tack on another BK level.

[CyberThread]

Hmm why pally level 9, the features sort of stop at level 5.

Also am confused by the class.

Do you "get back" paladn features, or does it also progress them, as if it was a level of paladin .

[shaikujin]

Hmm why pally level 9, the features sort of stop at level 5.

Also am confused by the class.

Do you "get back" paladn features, or does it also progress them, as if it was a level of paladin .


Not sure abt others, but I chose Paladin 9 to get the most out of Blackguard (don't need lvl 11 ability to swap out levels).

Blackguard 1 gives the following:
- Smite good +2/day, req 1 lvl of Paladin
- Lay on hands 1/day (can be used on fiendish servant, so might be considered a different type of Lay on hands), req 3 lvl of Paladin
- Sneak attack +1d6, req 5 lvl of Paladin
- Fiendish summoning, req 7 lvl of Paladin
- Undead companion, req 9 lvl of Paladin

If you don't like the latter 2 abilities, stop at lvl 5.

Boneknight then regrants several iconic lost Paladin abilities, and stacks with Paladin to determine the power of these abilities. Of particular note is spellcasting.

Edit: whoops, paladin abilities does not improve with boneknight levels except for mount.

Spellcasting is improved like most +1 divine spellcasting PRC

[Xuldarinar]

Hmm why pally level 9, the features sort of stop at level 5.

Also am confused by the class.

Do you "get back" paladn features, or does it also progress them, as if it was a level of paladin .

The fallen paladin entries of the Blackguard, not to mention the Corrupt avenger. Pending upon your ex-paladin levels, you gain additional class features.

1-2
3-4
5-6
7-8
9-10
11+

The blackguard, having 11+, is only for exchanging paladin levels for blackguard levels. Therefore, strictly for the purpose of fallen benefits, Paladin 9. If you were to go to 11, well… if you switched all you could you could be Ex-paladin 1/Blackguard 10, having the 1st group of fallen paladin bonuses.


Edit: …to expand, corrupt avengers gain at the same rate the following :

Tainted strike +1/day
Lay on Hands 1/day (damage equal to 1/2 Corruption score + CA level + paladin levels)
Tainted strike +1/day (total +2), Sworn Foe +2
Bonus tainted Feat
Death Knell. Tainted strike +1/day (total +3)

[CyberThread]

haha, where can we go with this, if we wan't to stay in the good alignment :P

[Xuldarinar]

For the most straight forward:
(Paladin or variant) 10/Boneknight 10?

What you could keep, would of course be based on the variant. You could permit you retain the equivalent for each variant.

Player's Handbook
Paladin [of Honor] (LG, what we know)

Unearthed Arcana:
Paladin of Freedom (CG)
Paladin of Slaughter (CE)
Paladin of Tyranny (LE)

Dragon Magazine #310
Anarch (CN)
Avenger (CG)
Enforcer (LN)
Sentinel (NG)
Incarnate (N)

Dragon Magazine #312
Anti-Paladin (CE)
Corrupter (NE)
Despot (LE)



Keep in mind, once you go bone knight, it doesn't matter what alignment you are. You could be a LG Anti-Paladin if you wanted for instance.