How to Prevent Migrants?

[Xar Zarath]

As a 17th-20th level Wizard that has offered vital services to many kings in exchange for wealth, privacy etc, 2 kings has ordered that their prosperous nations be protected from illegal migrants. How do we do that?

Any methods are welcomed, though try not to lay so much cheese into it. Wealth is provided by the kings, so WBL doesn't really count so much.

The first nation is something like Switzerland, a mountainous kingdom

The second is something like Indonesia, since that kingdom is surrounded by ocean but have a land route to the continent/landmass.

[Demonic_Spoon]

For mountain kingdom, wall off all the passes, and make a portal that's keyed to only let through lawful citizens of the kingdom.

[JaronK]

Simple method: Use many castings of Unseen Crafter at high caster level to just build a moat around the kingdom, and throw in Wall of Stone to make a great wall on the other side of the moat. Use the crafters as needed to make gates wherever you want.

JaronK

[Baron Malkar]

Give the possible migrants a legal alternative to illegal immigration that is easier than doing it illegally. It is a sociological issue, not a magical one.:smallcool:

[Emperor Tippy]

Well start with a Simulacrum of a Spellweaver (MM2). It has 1,000 mile Telepathy. Give it the feat Mindsight.

Now it can find and detect any mind within a thousand miles.

Now get a couple of Simulacrums of Pit Fiends. Although anything with a good chunk of power and at-will greater teleport works. Ensure max ranks in Forgery, Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

Now declare the area within a mile of the border as an interdiction zone that no one is allowed to be in unless they are on the posted roads. Whenever a mind enters the interdiction zone the Spellweaver notices automatically, at which point it tells one of the Pit Fiends to check it out. The Pit Fiend goes invisible, greater teleports to the area, and then either heads down to question the unauthorized individual or calls for backup and starts killing the invaders with his buddies.

This can also detect teleports into the nation but doesn't help so much when someone just teleports into a city while invisible as all you find out is type and Int score, which makes tracking down the invader difficult at best usually.

Have an Ice Assassin of a level 20 Spell to Power Erudite with Hallow as one of his powers known go around the your cities throwing up a Hallow every round (and once out of PP use a Midnight Augmentation Bestow Power to regain PP and keep going). In addition to preventing creatures from being raised as undead in your cities and blocking mind control this also blocks most teleports as well.

After this point it gets steadily more absurd, for example you can Shapechange into a Zodar, Wish up a CL 100 trillion scroll of Wish replicated Fabricate, Shapechange into a Lilitu, and then use your scroll to put up an Adamatine sphere around the entire nation (including under ground).

[Xar Zarath]

What if the uses of Pit Fiend,Spellweavers regardless of whether they are Simulacrums or not incur the notice of NGO's similar to the Harpers, Pathfinders etc. (something like the UN-sort of)

I mean I want to keep them out with minimal losses but if I use these brutally efficient methods, it may only bring adventurers to help protect the so called "innocent" people.
Note: I want to keep them out without killing them all( at least not to the point where attention can be drawn:smallamused:)

[Juntao112]

As a 17th-20th level Wizard that has offered vital services to many kings in exchange for wealth, privacy etc, 2 kings has ordered that their prosperous nations be protected from illegal migrants. How do we do that?


Build a fence.

[Morithias]

Turn the kingdom into a tyrannical hellhole where no one would ever live willingly.

[Emperor Tippy]

What if the uses of Pit Fiend,Spellweavers regardless of whether they are Simulacrums or not incur the notice of NGO's similar to the Harpers, Pathfinders etc. (something like the UN-sort of)

I mean I want to keep them out with minimal losses but if I use these brutally efficient methods, it may only bring adventurers to help protect the so called "innocent" people.
Note: I want to keep them out without killing them all( at least not to the point where attention can be drawn:smallamused:)

Use Trumpet Archon Simulacrums instead with a couple dozen or so Ice Assassin Solar's and Great Wyrm Gold Dragons kept back in reserve to deal with real problems.

With Mindblank up (which all of that Ice Assassin force can cast) the only way to tell that they are Ice Assassin's instead of the real deal is to beat the Disguise check made when the Ice Assassin in created; and that Disguise check can be pushed through the roof (Surge of Fortune for a natural 20, 23 ranks, Moment of Prescience for +10 is a DC of 53 alone). A DC 20 Sense Motive check will tell you that something is off or wrong but it won't tell you what it is.

[khachaturian]

overthrow the evil bigots and install a new government based on tolerance

[Ansem]

overthrow the evil bigots and install a new government based on tolerance

The Dwarven blood shall remain pure!

[Spore]

Death to the dwarves then as well!

[Rabidmuskrat]

You could just go for the effects of what Tippy said without resorting to his means.

Basically, some kind of sensory unit that uses various detect spells or sight forms to detect the illegal immigrants in contact with interception parties. If these immigrants are high power and/or high speed, your interception parties could be kitted out with access to teleportation and/or disabling spells. However, if you are just trying to keep level 1 commoners out, a couple of groups of level 1 warrior, armed guards connected to the sensory unit with some communication spell should work just fine. Mounts are a bonus.

[Radar]

The Dwarven blood shall remain pure!
Pure ethanol! :smalltongue:

At any rate, the most efficient method was already proposed by Tippy (he is an emperor for a reason), but to avoid bloodshed even if the tresspassers are hostile, you can make your Solars use Wish to transport unwanted people away. It is also worth pointing out, that this system requires you to organise a nation-wide citizen evidence system. If telepathy is enough to distinguish specific people, then it would be quite easy (if a bit slow), to teach the Spellweaver who is who. Alternatively your Solars might use Zone of Truth and/or magic-boosted Sense Motive to question people at the border.

Plus, in their free time all those simulacra can do community work, which will definately improve the PR of the king.

[Xar Zarath]

overthrow the evil bigots and install a new government based on tolerance

I don't want to rule, just continue using my magic to better myself. The current deal where the kings pay me huge sums of money to help them is sufficient.

There may come a time where I will have to remove them, but that is far off from now...

[Xar Zarath]

You could just go for the effects of what Tippy said without resorting to his means.

Basically, some kind of sensory unit that uses various detect spells or sight forms to detect the illegal immigrants in contact with interception parties. If these immigrants are high power and/or high speed, your interception parties could be kitted out with access to teleportation and/or disabling spells. However, if you are just trying to keep level 1 commoners out, a couple of groups of level 1 warrior, armed guards connected to the sensory unit with some communication spell should work just fine. Mounts are a bonus.

The migrants are mostly commoners, escaping civil war/wanting a better life in a more stable, prosperous environment.
The kings themselves don't want them in, at the same time they don't want to use violent action...they want to be seen as good and "impartial" but they just don't want to dirty their own hands...

[eggynack]

The migrants are mostly commoners, escaping civil war/wanting a better life in a more stable, prosperous environment.
The kings themselves don't want them in, at the same time they don't want to use violent action...they want to be seen as good and "impartial" but they just don't want to dirty their own hands...
So, what you're saying is that Tippy's method is practically guaranteed to work then, because the force you're trying to stop is really easy to stop. Just have the random pit fiends turn people away instead of killing them, and life should be fine.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Oh Tippy's methods rarely, if ever, fail to work. The same way that a nuclear bomb would rarely fail to eliminate a termite infestation. It just feels a little... flashy?

[Telonius]

As a 17th-20th level Wizard that has offered vital services to many kings in exchange for wealth, privacy etc, 2 kings has ordered that their prosperous nations be protected from illegal migrants. How do we do that?

Any methods are welcomed, though try not to lay so much cheese into it. Wealth is provided by the kings, so WBL doesn't really count so much.

The first nation is something like Switzerland, a mountainous kingdom

The second is something like Indonesia, since that kingdom is surrounded by ocean but have a land route to the continent/landmass.

The Wizard suggests that the king offer a 500gp reward to any migrant who turns in their employer. The penalty for employing such a migrant is ratcheted up to such a level that no one would want to employ such a migrant.

EDIT: One really nice thing about this is that you can set the reward to something rather high, but you'll only need to pay it out a few times. Once in place, it's self-enforcing, needs little monitoring from the king, almost no expense for the bureaucracy, and no magical involvement whatsoever. It turns the shopkeepers from potential agents of Chaos to strong agents of Law. And best of all, it removes the reason the NPCs wanted to migrate to begin with.

[Xar Zarath]

Oh Tippy's methods rarely, if ever, fail to work. The same way that a nuclear bomb would rarely fail to eliminate a termite infestation. It just feels a little... flashy?

Therefore, I wonder if anyone has any suggestible methods that are less flashy?

[Saidoro]

Therefore, I wonder if anyone has any suggestible methods that are less flashy?
His method of detection is probably the best you're likely to get, and it shouldn't raise too many eyebrows on its own. You can use Formian Queens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/formian.htm#queen) instead of Spellweavers if you want something less obscure, though they have a shorter range. Once you have your detection system set up you can really intercept trespassers however you like, the formian or spellweaver can coordinate teams of mortals and communicate the location of the trespassers just as well as they can coordinate pit fiends. It won't work as well, but it should still work well enough.

An alternate, more humane, solution would be to set up a permanent teleportation circle somewhere inside the war-torn lands which leads to a kingdom somewhere else in the world which has agreed to accept refugees.

A third solution would be to cast immunity to fire on yourself, plane shift to Hell, find a nice deep lava pit, briefly(a minute or so should be more than enough) open Gates from the bottom of the lava pit to wherever the various warring sides have their main command centers(determine with scrying if needed), and then planeshift back to the material and let everyone know that there will be no more of this "war bull****".

[Valwyn]

Give the citizens IDs? Research a variant of Insignia of Alarm (Races of Destiny 166) that instead of acting as a beeper, it allows you to find them within the city. If you don't have an insignia when you enter/leave the city, an alarm goes off. To prevent theft of the insignias, make it into a sort of invisible stamp on their hands. Should be faster than papers.

[Coidzor]

Set up checkpoints, anyone who doesn't satisfy the requirements gets sent to a refugee camp in a place of your choosing where they're groomed to be part of your tippyverse?

[Xelbiuj]

Arcane Mark plus some sort of sn system. When they go to get it renewed, they can also pay their taxes. :D

[Malroth]

Teleport to the country on the other side of the war from you and fiind 15 cubic feet of rock to PAO into 15 cubic feet of gold, watch as all the refugees now go the other direction and it becomes some other country's problem.

[Keneth]

and throw in Wall of Stone to make a great wall

The Chinese tried that already. It didn't work. :smalltongue:

[mostlyharmful]

Or take a page from Switzerlands book? turn all nations surrounding you into dependants by reliable, neutral banking services and thus ensure that they enforce your bourders for you? If Germany, France or Italy (I know they're not the only ones but for the sake of discussion) fail to prevent migrant through them then the Swiz system has penalties in place for their economy.

Combine that with an ID system to stop the few that get through and all you'll get are holidaying billionaires that want to ski and deposed dictators with suspiciously heavy hand lugage. Job done.

[Grollub]

are you trying to stop all border traffic? or just the random crossings?

I guess either way.. you can use a spell from Birthright Campaign world. I don't recall the name of it, but it was designed to close off each country/ border with an impenetrable wall of mist.

If you want "legal border traffic" you just need to drop the wall of mist at designated times. You will still get the "random crossings" during those "vulnerable" times, but with border patrols on high alert could minimize that.

Otherwise... I would just suggest kill all the migrants. As many as you can, make it so unpleasant for them they won't want to come to your country.

Either way, just make sure its public knowledge whatever you decide to do, it's the king's idea. Last thing you probably want is the reverse adventure, where you are the BBEG and the group of murder-hobo's come a-knockin.

[holywhippet]

Level 17 - 20? Just use the genesis spell to create a demiplane to put the refugees. Expand as required.

[Spuddles]

Create a make-work program for migrants.

Flood the kingdoms with cheap autonomous labor- undead or constructs- pushing the value of menial labor to 0. No more commoners.

[A Tad Insane]

Prismic barrier the entire border, except of checkpoint, which immigrant first have to pass through an amf, then a circle of truth. Add standard non magic security measures from there

[Icewraith]

You have two simple options:

1: Destroy all intelligent life in the offending region of emigrants.

2: Annex the offending region of emigrants. Repeat until you have achieved world domination or only touch borders with countries that can afford to police their own borders. If you end up with a border on any section of coastline this basically defaults to world domination.

Alternatively, you can section off the regions hiring you from the material plane and make travel to the new demiplane only possible from a series of controlled portals. This one probably requires DM adjucation and/or epic magic.

You could also destroy the governments of the two nations that hired you, on the basis that there can't be illegal emigration if the region is no longer governed by laws. This one will probably make future comissions unlikely, however.

[Coidzor]

The migrants are mostly commoners, escaping civil war/wanting a better life in a more stable, prosperous environment.
The kings themselves don't want them in, at the same time they don't want to use violent action...they want to be seen as good and "impartial" but they just don't want to dirty their own hands...

Stabilize their home countries by eliminating the factions that won't play ball with you. Get rid of the civil war/instability and they won't want to leave so you won't have to keep stopping them from entering.

Plus you get to loot the other country's coffers, or at least the coffers of the suicidal segments of the powers that are vying for control of it.

[Venusaur]

Make a demiplane for them, where you rule as emperor.

[Xar Zarath]

Make a demiplane for them, where you rule as emperor.

Sorry, not interested. Better things to do with my time:smallredface: "wink" "wink"

[Xar Zarath]

Stabilize their home countries by eliminating the factions that won't play ball with you. Get rid of the civil war/instability and they won't want to leave so you won't have to keep stopping them from entering.

Plus you get to loot the other country's coffers, or at least the coffers of the suicidal segments of the powers that are vying for control of it.

Im not interested in their problems. I just getting paid to stop them from coming over. Butchering them wont be good PR, at the same time I don't see a need to protect them, its their problem...:smallsigh:

[Xar Zarath]

Annex the offending region of emigrants. Repeat until you have achieved world domination or only touch borders with countries that can afford to police their own borders. If you end up with a border on any section of coastline this basically defaults to world domination.

Seems like too much work, since my goal is not world domination...


Alternatively, you can section off the regions hiring you from the material plane and make travel to the new demiplane only possible from a series of controlled portals. This one probably requires DM adjucation and/or epic magic.

You could also destroy the governments of the two nations that hired you, on the basis that there can't be illegal emigration if the region is no longer governed by laws. This one will probably make future comissions unlikely, however.

Don't want to destroy the kingdoms either or their governments, since under them I get paid handsomely and I dont have to deal with adventurers, since the kings keep npc would be-adventurers off my back

Looking for humane,efficient methods with minimal death...

[Coidzor]

Im not interested in their problems. I just getting paid to stop them from coming over. Butchering them wont be good PR, at the same time I don't see a need to protect them, its their problem...:smallsigh:

Their problem is your problem though. Dealing with the power groups at play is trivial for you, and setting up the "rightful heir" to unify the country is good PR for you and also, as stated before, profits you by plundering the warchests of the factions you've eliminated.

And then you've got another country that's paying you part of their taxes. Rinse and repeat. (http://youtu.be/ag50ct3EBxQ?t=57s)


Don't want to destroy the kingdoms either or their governments, since under them I get paid handsomely and I dont have to deal with adventurers, since the kings keep npc would be-adventurers off my back

Looking for humane,efficient methods with minimal death...

What's more efficient, using your army of angel simulacrums to prop up a "rightful" king who owes you money or stretching them out along the borders of two kingdoms?

[Icewraith]

Seems like too much work, since my goal is not world domination...



Don't want to destroy the kingdoms either or their governments, since under them I get paid handsomely and I dont have to deal with adventurers, since the kings keep npc would be-adventurers off my back

Looking for humane,efficient methods with minimal death...

I never said they were GOOD options, just simple ones that would completely and permanently solve the stated problem. :)

This sort of thinking may be why my players avoid using the wish spell, and are very careful about their wording even when doing things within the stated normal limits of the spell.

With that said, Tippy's suggestions are good ones (in a high-op game), only you'll probably have to alter the mental state of whatever telepathic creature you end up using so that it doesn't get bored and enslave the populace instead of pinging people crossing the border and dispatching the demon squad. I suggest altering it so that the creature is the type of intelligence that would enjoy watching the little soap operas of everyday lives and not interfering (while doing its job and performing life-sustaining tasks like eating etc.) 24/7.

[amalcon]

The most humane, efficient approach is going to be simply giving the migrants somewhere better to go. A 17th-level spellcaster should be able to create an almost utopian community somewhere. Do that, and convince the migrants to go there instead. In D&D, it's actually easier to do that than systematically monitoring or isolating an entire country.

[Coidzor]

The most humane, efficient approach is going to be simply giving the migrants somewhere better to go. A 17th-level spellcaster should be able to create an almost utopian community somewhere. Do that, and convince the migrants to go there instead. In D&D, it's actually easier to do that than systematically monitoring or isolating an entire country.

Plus it should only take a solar simulacrum or two to devote to running and maintaining that, and you should have those to spare.

[XmonkTad]

A permanent Gate to Excelsior (city in outlands that links to Celestia) would be a very attractive destination for a war-torn refugee. If PR is a big deal, create a special "autonomous zone" in a small area on your border and put the gate there. The refugees never enter your kingdom, but you can still take credit for taking care of the refugees in a humane way.

Of course, if you're not good to your own citizens, they might start using that gate too. If that starts happening, a dispel can get rid of the gate.

For extra bonus points: vagrants can be either sent through the gate, or put in charge of the autonomous zone. Now you've solved 2 problems.

[shadow_archmagi]

"Deputize" the first few waves of migrants to rove around the border and systematically slaughter the rest.

[Topus]

Found new communities around the borders, maybe some monastery with low level clerics enhancing the fruitfulness of the soil. Conscript brave and healthy people to become soldiers. Basically you can slowly expand the borders of the kingdom giving a place to this people.
Make them a sort of colony which pays some tribute to the king and trade with them.

[Xar Zarath]

Thanks guys, however the situation has changed somewhat.

My party has now returned, since this was my downtime for me to solo while they had their own things going. The paladin was a bit "concerned" with how I handled the situation. (Basically I made a refugee camp, since the amount coming in was quite prodigious indeed. Their care was handled by the monarchy of the 2 kingdoms I provide service for, which turned out to be zilch, revealed quite evilly by my DM)

The party now plans to head into the war torn countries to set things right, and they plan to go against armies with apparently blackguards, evil priests and mad druids. (Apparently its a 3 way fight that has gripped the 2 countries. Blackguards led by deathknights, evil priests serving shadow deity wanting the kingdoms to become slaves/servants and druids wanting to return the 2 countries to nature)

Now the paladin trusts me very little, but we do plan to forge ahead, the thing is we acquired this rather largish piece of land and the title etc and this very small country is sort of between the 2 kingdoms warring and the 2 peaceful ones. Paladin (leader) plans to forge on ahead and wants to relinquish title of the place but I want it, since I have future plans...:smallwink:

How do I protect my new country, besides the methods stated here? Its rather large, but small compared to the other kingdoms and is open country.

[Coidzor]

You know what Tippy said about keeping unwanted immigrants out?

That. Do that. Alternatively, set up a group of solar simulacrums to increase their numbers and set up patrols of 3 along X length of border, first around the main roads in and out, then secondary roads in and out, then tertiary, etc. until they've got the entire borderlands patrolled. Set up another group to increase their numbers and set up defenses and checkpoints and fortifications, or at least break up the terrain.

Also, since you have a kingdom, ponder why you didn't just absorb the refugees yourself and go bring them to your kingdom since apparently they were being starved where you left them. Allow them to set up the border communities and the like, recruit those who are willing to join the armies/militias of regular people in your little fiefdom. You can even set up a third group of solar simulacrums to help with irrigation projects and the like to make farming feasible in places where farming might not otherwise be feasible. They can also help feed them until they've got the farms/ranches up and running.

[Icewraith]

Thanks guys, however the situation has changed somewhat.

My party has now returned, since this was my downtime for me to solo while they had their own things going. The paladin was a bit "concerned" with how I handled the situation. (Basically I made a refugee camp, since the amount coming in was quite prodigious indeed. Their care was handled by the monarchy of the 2 kingdoms I provide service for, which turned out to be zilch, revealed quite evilly by my DM)

The party now plans to head into the war torn countries to set things right, and they plan to go against armies with apparently blackguards, evil priests and mad druids. (Apparently its a 3 way fight that has gripped the 2 countries. Blackguards led by deathknights, evil priests serving shadow deity wanting the kingdoms to become slaves/servants and druids wanting to return the 2 countries to nature)

Now the paladin trusts me very little, but we do plan to forge ahead, the thing is we acquired this rather largish piece of land and the title etc and this very small country is sort of between the 2 kingdoms warring and the 2 peaceful ones. Paladin (leader) plans to forge on ahead and wants to relinquish title of the place but I want it, since I have future plans...:smallwink:

How do I protect my new country, besides the methods stated here? Its rather large, but small compared to the other kingdoms and is open country.

OK, so you went ahead and accidentally started option two. It's difficult to stop doing option two once you've started without resorting to option one.

[Radar]

*Practical solution*
Solar simulacra. Is there any problem, they can't solve? :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Solar simulacra. Is there any problem, they can't solve? :smallbiggrin:

He's a wizard with 9th level spells that's being asked to reshape the world around him. This is one of the more reasonable uses of them because one is still tying at least one hand behind one's back, possibly two.

[XmonkTad]

Xar, sounds like you need to train up a conscript army of your own? Walling off an entire kingdom will be tricky. The best way to defend the kingdom will be to have the people defend themselves. I say make them tough. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232822

That's always a fun guide.

Or do something Tippy-drastic.