[3.X] OA Samurai vs CW Samurai.

[Yael]

Excluding tier lists, which one you like the most?

OA, I chose you!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Oh, I dunno... I think they both have their charms. Mechanically, the OA Samurai has the advantage, but the CW Samurai can be pretty scary if you build him right...

*whistles innocently*

[satorian]

I find building a workable CW Samurai far too intimidating a project to undertake.

[eggynack]

They're both pretty awful. OA samurai has the "advantage" of being a crappy fighter variant, which is something that the CW samurai can't claim. CW samurai has more unique abilities, which are terrible. Since power level essentially can't be a consideration here, because they're both the worst, uniqueness might just grant the CW samurai the edge.

[Yael]

So, Fighter vs OA/CW Samurai?

[eggynack]

So, Fighter vs OA/CW Samurai?
Fighter, easy. Fighter outfighters the OA samurai at fightering, and outintimidates the CW samurai at intimidating. Also, the fighter gets dungeoncrasher, which is really neat. I mean, I get that you said that this isn't about tier, but I start asking the question, "To what extent can this class allow me to fill the role I'm trying to fill?" it becomes worth considering.

[Dimers]

I very much appreciate OA Samurai for actually having skills. And skill points. It could have no class features at all and still be more attractive to me than CW Samurai or Fighter.

Ideas just being from another part of the world I don't care one way or the other about -- i.e. I'm no Japan fan man -- but I do like interesting mechanics, so the whole concept of Iaijutsu Focus also has me favoring OA Samurai.

[Coidzor]

Zhentarim Fighter gets Swift action Demoralization and full attacks, whereas, IIRC, CW Samurai is using Move action Demoralization and single attacks, but at a higher intimidate bonus, all else being equal. :smallconfused:

[ArcturusV]

I'd go with the OA Samurai, compared to the CW one. I like the ability to have my own customizable magic weapons. Which doesn't SOUND like a huge boon, until you play a campaign where the DM isn't going Monty Haul on the loot or availability of magic items and magic men willing to make exactly what you want. But yes, gods, skill points. Plus Iajutsu as a class skill which makes the OA Samurai a MUCH better damage dealer than any fighter variants short of stacking up both Thug and Sneak Attack variant. Even then I'm not sure if the OA samurai wouldn't end up on top. But yeah. There's a reason in my homebrew fixes I give Mundane characters at least 4 Skill Points per level. There's a HUGE difference between 2 and 4. Much more than between 4 and 6, or 6 and 8.

Compared to Fighter? I might still take the OA samurai. More skill points. Less bonus feats, free magic enchanting however. Trading out heavy armor for the ability to inflict some serious damage. It's a close tie in my mind, but I'd probably want to roll up an OA Samurai over a Fighter.

[Diovid]

Do note that the CW Samurai had this little update (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x). But it might unfair to take that into consideration.

[137beth]

PF Samurai is better than either 3.0 or 3.5 samurai:smallbiggrin:

Between OA and CW samurai...I can't really say, I'm not a fan of either as far as interesting mechanics, and obviously power isn't what's being considered.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Zhentarim Fighter gets Swift action Demoralization and full attacks, whereas, IIRC, CW Samurai is using Move action Demoralization and single attacks, but at a higher intimidate bonus, all else being equal. :smallconfused:

To be fair, CW Samurai also gets spammable area-effect demoralize (Mass Staredown), wheras skill tricks (Never Outnumbered) can only be used once per encounter. Therefore CW Samurai does have the advantage in area-effect lockdown (all opponents within 30'), wheras Zhent Fighter gets the advantage in single-target lockdown due to only consuming a swift action.

Of course, as you point out, a CW Samurai only gets a single standard action while locking down, so it's pretty much the only contribution your character can make to a fight if that is what he is doing. Wheras a Zhent Fighter can still get his full round of attacks, including charging, tripping, or doing something else relevant that turn.

But, if all you need is a lockdown so your allies can mop up...


I find building a workable CW Samurai far too intimidating a project to undertake.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.jpg

[Coidzor]

To be fair, CW Samurai also gets spammable area-effect demoralize (Mass Staredown), wheras skill tricks (Never Outnumbered) can only be used once per encounter. Therefore CW Samurai does have the advantage in area-effect lockdown (all opponents within 30'), wheras Zhent Fighter gets the advantage in single-target lockdown due to only consuming a swift action.

Of course, as you point out, a CW Samurai only gets a single standard action while locking down, so it's pretty much the only contribution your character can make to a fight if that is what he is doing. Wheras a Zhent Fighter can still get his full round of attacks, including charging, tripping, or doing something else relevant that turn.

But, if all you need is a lockdown so your allies can mop up...

Ah, I always forget about Mass Staredown. :smallredface:

Thank you. :smallsmile:

[Talya]

They're both pretty awful. OA samurai has the "advantage" of being a crappy fighter variant, which is something that the CW samurai can't claim. CW samurai has more unique abilities, which are terrible. Since power level essentially can't be a consideration here, because they're both the worst, uniqueness might just grant the CW samurai the edge.

OA samurai is an awesome 1-2 level dip for anyone building a samurai. It's far better than fighter.

Compare:
4 skills/level
High fort AND will save
Ancestral Daisho scales with CHARACTER LEVEL, not class level.
Iajutsu Focus as a class skill (this dovetails BEAUTIFULLY into Warblade).

I love the OA samurai. Unlike the fighter, it gets an actual class feature. Sadly, like the fighter, it gets no class features from levels 2-20. Which just means you can multiclass out and continue advancing the only class feature it gets.