Binder: Anything you can do, I can do better

[Xuldarinar]

Both a challenge and a question.
How many different classes (Base or prestige) can binders simulate, and what classes can binders not only simulate but are better at doing the class's job?

For instance, a binder could simulate and exceed a paladin using: Andras, Buer, Kas (Dragon 341), and Tenebrous.

[Person_Man]

Once you get access to Zceryll (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) and enough alternate Summon Monster lists from splat books and Monster Manuals, pretty much anything.

[mabriss lethe]

Andromalius and Malphas give you access to a decent bit of precision damage.

I'm afb right now, but I believe Karsus lets you use wands and scrolls as a wizard, so that can be a help.

[The Viscount]

At lower levels, Ronove makes you comparable to or better than a monk, considering you have feather fall instead of slow fall and telekinetic thrust.

[Psyren]

Naberius makes you an excellent face. Malphas makes you a great scout.

Andromalius + Malphas + Marchosias makes you a decent assassin. Combine with Otiax to gain an at-will touch-attack to apply your precision damage to.


At lower levels, Ronove makes you comparable to or better than a monk, considering you have feather fall instead of slow fall and telekinetic thrust.

Ronove's thrust is a joke - the hand has a strength SCORE = your binder level, so you have to get all the way to level 10 before it doesn't even have a penalty.

Also, no potions at lower levels is a bit of a drag.

[The Viscount]

While you will almost certainly fail the bullrush attempt, it's still no-save automatic damage, which is extremely useful at low levels, and the mage hand like effect is great. I find it endlessly amusing that Ronove grants you some abilities faster than a monk does, granting increased speed 2 levels earlier, magic strike 3 levels earlier, and feather fall 19 levels earlier than slow fall any distance.

No potions is indeed a pain, but her binding DC is low enough that you have a good chance of making it.

[A Tad Insane]

If you become an anima mage, you are better than just about anyone, except for some other full caster prc (flicking initiates of the seven veil)

[Xuldarinar]

If you become an anima mage, you are better than just about anyone, except for some other full caster prc (flicking initiates of the seven veil)

Well, that is a given, and due to the adaptation mentioned in it's entry you can really adjust it to theurge with any other 'casting' class.

[limejuicepowder]

Savnok is pretty tanky, much better than a fighter at very low levels. The summoned full plate, besides being extremely easy to take on and off as needed (no need to drown, or fail easy skill checks), is far more expensive then anything the fighter can afford.

I'm AFB and I can't remember, but doesn't Savnok also give the "switch places with an ally" ability? That's very nifty even if the range is only 5 or 10 ft at low levels.

[stack]

Savnok is pretty tanky, much better than a fighter at very low levels. The summoned full plate, besides being extremely easy to take on and off as needed (no need to drown, or fail easy skill checks), is far more expensive then anything the fighter can afford.

I'm AFB and I can't remember, but doesn't Savnok also give the "switch places with an ally" ability? That's very nifty even if the range is only 5 or 10 ft at low levels.

Especially if you can also bind Malphas. Swap places with the crow (raven? don't recall). Gets you a lot of places.

[Xuldarinar]

Given there are no vestiges that give access to certain subsystems, but there are feats associated with them, would it be wise for binders to take such feats? Maneuvers, Meldshaping, and Truenaming all come to mind.

[limejuicepowder]

Given there are no vestiges that give access to certain subsystems, but there are feats associated with them, would it be wise for binders to take such feats? Maneuvers, Meldshaping, and Truenaming all come to mind.

Maneuver dips are good for pretty much any non-casting class, so yes to that one (though it's not especially good for a binder - a class with weaker natural abilities will see much more improvement from them).

I'm not familiar, at all, with Incarnum so I can't really comment on that. The few things I have heard make it sound pretty awesome though. I've got a guess that it's similar to maneuvers in that any class can benefit however, and again a class that is naturally weaker will get more out of it.

Truenaming.....let's see, the class that does it natively is considered largely unplayable, so I don't think I'll be spending feats to poorly imitate an unplayable class. Just my gut reaction.

[The Viscount]

Binder might get some use out of Incarnum, especially since it can plug one of binder's biggest deficiencies, the lack of flight until very late into the game.

[Metahuman1]

Binder dipping an initiator class even if it's just for a level can also help it stretch itself out longer in combat with more potent ability's, by allowing you to initiate maneuvers when your 1/5 round ability's are recharging.

I particularly like Crusader for this cause of there recovery mechanic. You can pretty much count on having something cool and useful to do every round of combat.