Best Reach Weapon, if Spiked Chain were unavailable?

[ThreeDSix]

So, everyone knows that the Spiked Chain is by far the best reach weapon.
If it were not avaliable for selection - say, a wizard went back in time and erased the first person to stick spikes on a chain from existance - what would your choice for Reach Weapon of Choice be?

[Snowbluff]

Spinning Sword. :smalltongue:

In Core, I would choose LANCE!

[starwoof]

I would also choose a lance, unless it is pathfinder, in which case I would say glaive-guisarme (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/glaive-guisarme) to counter all of the people that choose lance.

[Snowbluff]

I would choose Lance if someone chose that, since -2 is hardly a penalty on a DC 5 check. Readying against a charge is fine, except that the mounted charger is able to Triple, rather than double damage.

[ArqArturo]

I would also choose a lance, unless it is pathfinder, in which case I would say glaive-guisarme (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/glaive-guisarme) to counter all of the people that choose lance.

What about the Guisarme-Glaive (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html)? :smallbiggrin:.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The non-spiked variety, found in... OA, I think. Same concept, just deals slightly less (bludgeoning) damage.

[Snowbluff]

ON a similiar note, the Scorpion Chain. Which is a spiked chain for drow that does slashing damage.

[The Viscount]

Duom is probably my favorite, since it allows you to hit adjacent enemies as well as those 10ft away.

[Person_Man]

My picks:

Boomerang: Eberron Campaign setting pg 119: This weapon actually sucks. It deals less damage then most other thrown weapons. When it misses, you can make an attack roll to catch it. However, proficiency with this weapon qualifies you for the uber Boomerang Daze feat (Races of Eberron pg 108) forces anyone who takes damage from your boomerang to Save or be Dazed (one of the most powerful effects in the game) for 1 round, and Boomerang Ricochet (also RoE pg 108) which lets you hit a second adjacent target with your boomerang (potentially Dazing both) after you hit the first.

Kaorti weapons: Fiend Folio web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a): Any weapon can be made out of kaorti, which gives it a crit multiplier of x4. You need an EWP for a kaorti version of a weapon (even if it is already exotic). Combine with any high crit range weapon, and your average damage goes way up. Of course, this is a ridiculously exotic weapon, as you need to convince an Evil Outsider to make it for you (or accept the +4 LA to be a Kaorti yourself).

Pincer Staff: Underdark: Gives you a free Grapple attempt when you hit your enemy. Also, as long as your enemy can’t reach you, they can’t attack you or do anything other then attempt to move or escape from the grapple. (There's also the mancatcher in Comp Warrior, but it deals less damage).

Razor Net: Dragon Compendium, p. 115: Using a net is a ranged touch attack (maximum range of 10 feet) that imposes a -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dex, 1/2 movement, and you can’t charge or run (no Save), and you can use a trailing rope to prevent enemies from moving away from you. The razor net does all the same thing, and also deals 1d6 damage.

Spinning Sword: Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136. Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. But like all one handed weapons, it can also be used with two hands if you want it to.

[Darrin]

Duom is probably my favorite, since it allows you to hit adjacent enemies as well as those 10ft away.

It is also a martial weapon, not exotic. At least, according to Dragon Compendium.

[animewatcha]

Spinning Sword: Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136. Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. But like all one handed weapons, it can also be used with two hands if you want it to.

Unfortunately, you can't apply the str x 1.5 to it.

If drag mag were allowed, I would say meteor hammer / rope dart from 319. Same benefits of spiked chain except proficiency allows monks to use flurry with it ( so if willing to expand on it via houserule etc, other things with language of 'special monk weapons' ), less weapon based damage than spiked chain in exchange for 15 ft reach ( instead of 10 ). So at large you would have 30 ft reach, etc.

[The Viscount]

It is also a martial weapon, not exotic. At least, according to Dragon Compendium.

This is true, another reason why I like it so much. Exotic wasn't the question, only reach.

[ArqArturo]

I always thought the best reach weapon was the Big Dumb Fighter.

But, for me, Ranseurs win the game by tripping.

[JaronK]

Spiked Chains aren't very good anyway. Armor Spikes + Guisarme does the same thing without needing a feat.

But the answer depends on what the character does. The Pike (KoK weapon) is a martial weapon with a 15' reach, so that's good if all you want to do is hit things. The Guisarme is a martial weapon with reach and can trip, so it's perfect for trippers. There's a variety of one handed reach weapons available which are great if you can only use one hand for one reason or another.

JaronK

[ArqArturo]

But the answer depends on what the character does. The Pike (KoK weapon) is a martial weapon with a 15' reach, so that's good if all you want to do is hit things. The Guisarme is a martial weapon with reach and can trip, so it's perfect for trippers. There's a variety of one handed reach weapons available which are great if you can only use one hand for one reason or another.

Heheheh.

Ok, I'm letting my inner child back to my subconscious.

[Artillery]

Guisarme. Its martial and can be used for tripping. It with a spiked Gauntlet is the poormans Spiked Chain.

[Snowbluff]

Oh, I forgot about War Spikards. These things can shoot crossbow bolts at people you hit, dealing the damage of the weapon. Add some poisons, splitting ammo, and mighty wallop, it's a cool weapon for a few feats. NO reach, but they fit the exotic weapon slot.

[JaronK]

I don't understand. What's wrong with the longest pole arm being a KoK weapon? I mean, I know you need two hands just to wield that particular KoK weapon, but the ability to safely tap even Huge creatures with your KoK weapon is pretty cool, I'd say.

That's the great thing about KoK. It lets you tap the really big creatures safely, even from 15' away.

JaronK

[Fax Celestis]

I'd actually vote halberd, but only because it's a trip, reach weapon, and with Spinning Halberd it qualifies for Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, and Slashing Flurry. Take Short Haft or Improved Unarmed Strike for kicks.

did u c wut i did thar

[Amphetryon]

I'd actually vote halberd, but only because it's a trip, reach weapon, and with Spinning Halberd it qualifies for Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, and Slashing Flurry. Take Short Haft or Improved Unarmed Strike for kicks.


Halberd isn't a Reach weapon in 3.5. :smallconfused:

My typical choice, barring Spiked Chain, is the Guisarme.

[Chronos]

Quoth JaronK:

I don't understand. What's wrong with the longest pole arm being a KoK weapon?
He was pronouncing "KoK" phonetically.

[Fax Celestis]

Halberd isn't a Reach weapon in 3.5. :smallconfused:

My typical choice, barring Spiked Chain, is the Guisarme.

It...what...

MY LIFE IS A LIE

I blame the poncy elves.

[JaronK]

He was pronouncing "KoK" phonetically.

Yes, and I was playing along. You will note that every line of my response was full of innuendo!

JaronK

[Snowbluff]

It...what...

MY LIFE IS A LIE I know how you feel. It tore my life apart. :smallfrown:


I blame the poncy elves.
Pfft... people don't use the word "ponce" enough.

[ArqArturo]

Yes, and I was playing along. You will note that every line of my response was full of innuendo!

JaronK

I didn't reply because everyone at the office thought I was watching some show on the laptop, because I was laughing so much :smallamused:.

You actually made my day less gloomy today, good sir.

[macdaddy]

Lucern hammer.

Its blunt, so it works with greater mighty wallop :)

[gorfnab]

Kusari-gama (DMG 144-145) :smalltongue:

[lsfreak]

It...what...

MY LIFE IS A LIE

I blame the poncy elves.

Unlike many of the questionably-designed stuff, though, my highly limited understanding of halberd fighting is actually that they wouldn't normally be reach weapons in 1v1 fighting. http://youtu.be/-TzdtyMC7ek?t=1m19s

[Chronos]

Wow, what was that thing that just whooshed right over my head?

[Curmudgeon]

Lucern hammer.

Its blunt, so it works with greater mighty wallop :)
Yes, I see your smiley there, but for those who don't know you're kidding:
http://www.algonet.se/~enda/images/lucernehammer.jpg
That "hammer head" is just a cluster of 4 spikes. In fact, the entire weapon is a collection of spikes.

[Snowbluff]

Unlike many of the questionably-designed stuff, though, my highly limited understanding of halberd fighting is actually that they wouldn't normally be reach weapons in 1v1 fighting. http://youtu.be/-TzdtyMC7ek?t=1m19s
Still, as a polearm, it should have some property. Glaives and other similar weapons are not much longer. :smallfrown:


That "hammer head" is just a cluster of 4 spikes. In fact, the entire weapon is a collection of spikes.

Yeppers. Also, equipping a Leo Ring gives you a bonus on counter hits, thanks to the pierce damage. Dark Souls.

[amalcon]

Definitely the Guisarme. The Guisarme is actually the best reach weapon even over the spiked chain, because it's not exotic. In exchange for threatening adjacent (which only really matters for Mage Slayer Stand Still lockdown tactics, and there you can get it back with Armor Spikes) and disarming bonus (half of Improved Disarm), you save a feat and get a better damage type (Slashing is good against zombies, and qualifies for Slashing Flurry).

The Spiked Chain isn't even the best exotic reach weapon; that honor belongs to the Dwarven Warpike. This thing is basically a reach Greatsword, but you can both trip and set against a charge. Again, the only things you lose over Spiked Chain are threatening adjacent and the disarming bonus. For general use, those don't matter. As a bonus, a Dwarf can get proficiency by trading out their Urgosh proficiency.

If the goal is the best approximation of the Spiked Chain, the only options are the OA Blunt Chain, the Kusari-Gama from the DMG, and the Spinning Sword. The two last are nice because they are not two-handed, and thus can be dual-wielded. This leads to one of the few decent TWF Ranger setups (the reach TWF tripper configuration has pretty good crowd control). The blunt chain is used to good effect in the "Gatling Chain Gun Tripper" build from the old WotC boards, which was nice in its time though it's not really the latest tech anymore.