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View Full Version : Magical Training Feat (Faerūn)



DwarfInTheFlask
2013-10-28, 01:19 PM
See the Feat Info Below.
Prerequisite
INT 10, elf (Evereska or Evermeet) or human (Halruaa or Nimbral),

Benefit
You can cast three 0-level arcane spells per day as either a sorcerer or wizard (your choice, so long as you have a score of at least 10 in the ability that controls the spellcasting for that class). You must make this decision when you first take the feat. Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast. If you choose to cast spells as a sorcerer, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Cha modifier. You know two 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list. If you choose to cast spells as a wizard, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Int modifier. You have a spellbook with three 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/ wizard list. You prepare your spells exactly as a wizard does.

Special
If you already have levels in sorcerer or wizard, increase the number of 0-level spells you can cast per day by three. You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat.


Now from what it says it seems like it gives you more then it appears.
One it lets you cast spells 0 level spells for sure but still spells. It does not allow you to cast them in a special way right? It just says casting spells. This means whomever takes this feat gains spell slots.

Now if you read the second half it says if your using Wizard you gain three 0 level spells, but as a sorcerer gains two 0 level spells. But the first sentence says 3, so this leads me to assume the following
Sorcerers get 5 total 0 level spells
Wizard get 6 total 0 level spells.

Now if you take this feat as a wizard, you gain a spellbook. Now for you to have these 3 (or 6) spells you must have them in your spellbook. How did it get there? If someone else wrote them in there they would count as borrowed spells?

If they were borrowed then they would require a check, and the feat doesn't say they require one. This means you had to scribe them. BUT, you couldn't have you cannot scribe spells into a spellbook unless its on your spell list. So that means in short you have access to the Wizard and Sorcerer Spell List or else you could not have scribed them. This is a base rule in the books.

So in short this feat would allow whomever took it to have access to Wizard and Sorcerer Spell List and the ability to scribe spells into your spell book. And while this might be nothing without the following. You gain spell slots equal to that of a Wizard of your character level.

So any class who took this feat gains spell slots, spell list, and a spell book like a Wizard of your level. As a Sorcerer it doesn't give half as much since it only gives you a few spells known and you can cast spells sure, but without learning new spells and a way to learn them you cannot progress it

I am aware this is close to following the rules because it doesn't say it doesn't say so. But this feat when rewritten in Forgotten Realms was much clearer to the way most RAI followers believe it means to be.

Prerequisite
Intelligence 10+. REGION: Halruaa,

Benefit
You may cast the 0-level arcane spells dancing lights, daze, and mage hand once per day each. You have an arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor. You are treated as a wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st level) for determining the range at which these spells can be cast.

Special
You may only take this feat as a 1st-level character.

hamishspence
2013-10-28, 01:26 PM
The first sentence determines the number of spell slots. The second determines the number of spells known.

So a person using the Sorcerer version of the feat gets 3 spell slots- and knows 2 spells to cast from those slots.

A person using the Wizard version of the feat gets 3 spell slots- and a spellbook with 3 spells to fill those slots with.

As a Regional feat- for 1st level characters only- it represents that the character did some training- but not as much as a true Sorcerer or Wizard.

DwarfInTheFlask
2013-10-28, 01:32 PM
I understand what it is meant for first level and what not.

Can you name any other feat that grants one off spell slots? I am completely unaware of any other.

This feat would allow the character to scribe in the spell book and still give them access to the spell list, as it doesn't ID the spells they know it lets them pick from the spell list making it their spell list.

thorr-kan
2013-10-28, 01:42 PM
Note that it says you "prepare" spells as a wizard. It says nothing about "learning" spells as a wizard. It grants a spellbook. This leads to some disagreement.

Camp 1: You've got a spellbook, and can add spells to it, just like a wizard.

Camp 2: You've got a spellbook with 3 0-level slots. Nothing in the feat says you can get more.

DwarfInTheFlask
2013-10-28, 01:45 PM
Then I must ask Camp two how we got the spells into the book?
We choose the spells we add, which means we decide it, thus we are the ones scribing it.

SinsI
2013-10-28, 01:49 PM
Then I must ask Camp two how we got the spells into the book?
We choose the spells we add, which means we decide it, thus we are the ones scribing it.

Whoever trained you gave you that training book.

DwarfInTheFlask
2013-10-28, 01:54 PM
But it does not say that does it? Why not just write that in. That this spell book is filled with the spells known you pick. Indicating you are not the one putting them in there.

The problem with RAI is that Intent is hard to determine especially when they could have written it a hundred different ways to solve any problem with it.

So why leave it vague unless it was meant to be interpreted as that way, when they could have stated it out right.

Doug Lampert
2013-10-28, 07:51 PM
But it does not say that does it? Why not just write that in. That this spell book is filled with the spells known you pick. Indicating you are not the one putting them in there.

The problem with RAI is that Intent is hard to determine especially when they could have written it a hundred different ways to solve any problem with it.

So why leave it vague unless it was meant to be interpreted as that way, when they could have stated it out right.

It isn't vague. The rules say what you can do. In this case it says you have a spellbook, slots, and how many spells you know.

It says NOTHING about being able to add spells to your spellbook or learn additional spells, thus it does not modify those abilities from what they were without the feat. The feat does what it says.

It doesn't say that you can't cast Epic level spells just because you have this feat, but you can't because nothing in the feat says you can.

It doesn't say that you can't fart fireballs just because you have this feat, but you can't because nothing in the feat says you can.

It doesn't say that you can't scribe additional spells into your spellbook just because you have this feat, but you can't because nothing in the feat says you can.

That's how the rules work and the feat is not ambiguous.

ArqArturo
2013-10-28, 07:56 PM
So basically a Warmage/Beguiler can add spells outside of his/her repertoire.

And the Dread Necromancer feels somewhat special because now he/she/it has cantrips.

Ruethgar
2013-10-28, 11:12 PM
You do gain access to the wizard spell list, but it is not associated with a class. You cannot scribe spells into your spellbook(though you could scribe scrolls and brew potions with feats oddly enough). It does not grant spell slots beyond those few listed, casting spells as a wizard of x level is not the same as having an effective wizard level of x. You would be granted caster level for all of your arcane spellcasting classes for the purposes of your few spells from the feat but that's about it and is nearly useless for cantrips.

Extra Slot is another feat that grants a spell slot not bound to a class, but Magical Training is more potent in that is gives you spellcasting, allowing you to qualify for things as a mundane class that you normally couldn't with a little finagling or to qualify for things that need arcane casting as a divine without dipping(Magical Training and Precocious Apprentice on a Cleric for faster Theurge entry).

FullmetalGamer
2013-10-29, 05:04 AM
The Problem is that the designers are not that bright, they don't think of having to be exact and clear so people don't try this. In Forgotten Realms they have made the spell much clearer even including the spells it gives you.

I see somewhat where your going with this line of thinking but it doesn't specifically say that and so it doesn't give it. Which I know pretty much could work for most feats out there, its a clusterf*** but thats Feats for you.