9 most difficult videogames

[pendell]

Piece just posted on digital trend (http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/the-hardest-video-games-of-all-time/). A little tired, so I can't think of much intelligent to say, other than that neo geo games like sengoku (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBtAizJUz78) weren't mentioned but should have been.

I remember Sengoku being difficult because a hit from an armed enemy would take off 2 hit points but you would have to pick up 10 green orbs to get 1 hp back. VERY hard to beat it on one credit.

Willow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LumZP0rpoDM) was also quite hard because you got one life and you would lose instantly if you fell into water, or off a cart, or any of a number of horrors. I actually won $5 in tokens for beating this one at an arcade back in '92 or so.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Winthur]

I saw Contra, facepalmed upon the declaration that it's unbeatable without Konami cheat code, skimmed over to see no Ninja Gaiden or even Batman for the NES.

Bad list just like every single one of them, this kind of subjective opinion could be kept to someone's blog.

[tyckspoon]

I saw Contra, facepalmed upon the declaration that it's unbeatable without Konami cheat code, skimmed over to see no Ninja Gaiden or even Batman for the NES.


The Ninja Gaiden series as a whole got a nod. But.. yeah, I think Contra's difficulty is over-rated too. I've one-lifed the thing from start to finish before, and it's not all that hard to do. If you can play a bullet-hell shooter with any level of proficiency you shouldn't have much trouble with Contra.

[Tebryn]

All old school games. Where's Spelunky? Any of the versions of Spelunky? How about Rogue? The Binding of Isaac or Super Meat Boy? Fez? There's so many better games that should be on that list.

[nhbdy]

Admittedly not as hard as some of the older titles, but the souls series (Demon Souls, Dark Souls, Kings Field, etc...) should get an obligatory mention, as in my mind it gets difficulty in the right way, some of the older arcade games were really, REALLY hard, but it was there to force you to spend more time/money on the game, whereas in Dark Souls at least (I have not played any of their other games) there are few arbitrary "we don't like the player" rules

[factotum]

All old school games. Where's Spelunky? Any of the versions of Spelunky? How about Rogue? The Binding of Isaac or Super Meat Boy? Fez? There's so many better games that should be on that list.

They included NetHack--you should probably just take that entry as being "the entire Roguelike genre", given that murderous difficulty is pretty much a staple of it!

As for difficult games, I would definitely include Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos in that list. It's a space combat simulator designed by sadists who hate gamers and all they stand for.

[Grif]

No Dwarf Fortress, any Paradox strategy games (Victoria 2 and Hearts of Irons series comes to mind) or even some of the more modern platformers like Super Meat Boy.

Yeah.

[erikun]

I see no shmups on the list. I would like to whoever put Oregon Trail on that list to give DoDonPachi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3-jDEeiF0) a try, or even something more reasonable like Ikaruga.

I'm also wondering if this isn't a "best known difficult titles" rather than just the hardest. I would easily put Castlevania, with frustrating stages and controls, over Contra, with the biggest difficulty being not running into something while jumping. Or Mega Man, which for the most part was recognizing and avoiding patterns in a lot of games.

I'm not sure that Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out was really that difficult beyond the timing with some of the opponents, either. Once you had that down, you can probably beat the game rather simply. I have to wonder why some of the later stages on something like Guitar Hero would compare. :smalltongue:

[Tebryn]

They included NetHack--you should probably just take that entry as being "the entire Roguelike genre", given that murderous difficulty is pretty much a staple of it!

As for difficult games, I would definitely include Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos in that list. It's a space combat simulator designed by sadists who hate gamers and all they stand for.

I saw NetHack but for sure but a game like Spelunky really deserves to be on that list. Not only is it super hard but it's one of the major contributors of the the "Rogue-Lite" or "X with Roguelike Elements" genre. La-Mulana should be on that list for the exact same reason.

[MLai]

Ikari Warriors was way harder than Contra, though that doesn't speak for its quality just difficulty.
I can beat Contra with a 30-man code, whereas even a 30-man code wouldn't help me beat Ikari Warriors. Thank goodness it has an infinite lives code.
And even then sometimes you can't beat the game!!!

http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ikari-warriors_jpg_500x500_q85.jpg
Jesse Ventura and Michael Biehn bromance.

[Starwulf]

I distinctly remember Nobunaga's Ambition for the NES being a wickedly hard game. Of course, it might also be because I was like 8 when I tried to play it, and had never even heard of a strategy game before, and the concept of building up an army and keeping them fed and everything else was wickedly hard to grasp. After looking it up on Wiki, I'm tempted to go find it on Ebay to replay it, the series was incredibly praised early on in it's life.

[Bavarian itP]

I beat Omega Trail at first try.
Isn't it the sequel that's supposed to be hard?

I also beat Ghost'n'Goblins at age nine. It's really not as hard as the internet claims it to be (unless, perhaps, you fail to figure out that the shield is the strongest weapon. I'm looking at you, AVGN).

[MLai]

I also beat Ghost'n'Goblins at age nine. It's really not as hard as the internet claims it to be (unless, perhaps, you fail to figure out that the shield is the strongest weapon. I'm looking at you, AVGN).
The shield is NOT the strongest weapon. Because the game is not super-hard except for the red gargoyles, and the shield sucks against the red gargoyles.

[DigoDragon]

I'm also wondering if this isn't a "best known difficult titles" rather than just the hardest. I would easily put Castlevania, with frustrating stages and controls, over Contra, with the biggest difficulty being not running into something while jumping. Or Mega Man, which for the most part was recognizing and avoiding patterns in a lot of games.

I echo the idea that this feels more like an "infamous for their difficulty" list. Battletoads I can see being on there though, and for me it was definitely the PvP problem that made it so hard. :smallbiggrin:

Castlevania was really difficult for me as well (I only got about halfway through without cheating). Mega Man wasn't too hard for me. I managed it with a couple continues. Though I've played a lot of Mega Man games so maybe the experience with the formula helped.

I don't know if I'd count I Wanna Be the Guy as a game, so much as an exercise in pain tolerance. :smallbiggrin:

[Grif]

One more game I think deserves some mention:

QWOP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWOP)

:smalltongue:

[Choyrt]

My little sister and I would beat Contra without the cheat code, no problem. We had not only the game memorized, but each other's patterns and movements. I also could wreck the original Ninja Gaiden without issue.

Heh. Now I just hammer the quickload key on my keyboard because I suck.

I think the hardest game I ever played was on the original Nintendo. You played a small soldier stranded on an island with an assault rifle, and you had to platform jump while shooting monsters/critters as the game scrolled to the right. Sometimes you could power up and become a much taller man that would bounce sonic beams off of his chest.

This game was simply impossible for me.

[erikun]

I also beat Ghost'n'Goblins at age nine. It's really not as hard as the internet claims it to be (unless, perhaps, you fail to figure out that the shield is the strongest weapon. I'm looking at you, AVGN).
I'm surprised. As someone who actually beat Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, I can tell you how grueling that game is. It basically required remembering precise jumps through seven stages, including all the bosses, while on a timer so you couldn't mess around with enemies. Even worse, the final boss (well, last-stage boss) had two stages and to fully complete the game, you needed to beat them both with one specific weapon which was not at all easy to do.

I'd be surprised if Ghosts 'n' Goblins was much easier.

While we're talking about difficult games, how about basically any Sierra Entertainment adventure game between 1980 and 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sierra_Entertainment_video_games)? Because seriously, basically every one fell into the "Guide Dang It!" category unless you had a lot of time on your hands to try every illogical combination - and, at times, were willing to restart dozens of times due to missing key items.

[Eldariel]

Funny how Megaman 9 has this clause "The ninth installment of the Mega Man series is a throwback to the 8-bit era in terms of style, gameplay, and difficulty." and then the series fails to mention the 8-bit era games from the series :smalltongue:

Blaster Master needs to be on there. That game is bloody long and really unforgiving. And huge, for a Nintendo game. Just plain huge. Sure you have a lot of health but that's really not all that and then some. Even just the boss fights are pretty rough and losing the useful weapons if you get hit at all means you better not get hit. It's not that lethal in difficulty (tho honestly, Battletoads biking segments aren't all that after few hundred playthroughs either), but being long + unforgiving + no password system + still quite hard is harsh.

[tigerusthegreat]

Ikari Warriors was way harder than Contra, though that doesn't speak for its quality just difficulty.
I can beat Contra with a 30-man code, whereas even a 30-man code wouldn't help me beat Ikari Warriors. Thank goodness it has an infinite lives code.
And even then sometimes you can't beat the game!!!

http://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/ikari-warriors_jpg_500x500_q85.jpg
Jesse Ventura and Michael Biehn bromance.

A B B A

I remember spamming A B B A throuhgout that game....I got to the end once, it took forever.

[Olinser]

You know, any time I see Oregon Trail on any 'hardest video game' list, I just facepalm.

Oregon trail was not HARD. It was a stupid RNG that half the time you couldn't do anything to affect. A game that has a 50% chance to kill you regardless of what you do is not 'hard'. Its just stupid (Oregon Trail II was a lot more fun, btw).

Battletoads is one of the hardest games ever crafted by mankind - but if you play perfectly, it is possible (though insanely unlikely) to beat it without a death (even without getting hit). THAT is a hard game.

Oregon Trail you can do everything right and still die. That is not a hard game, that's just a dumb RNG.

Most of the rest are OK.

I'm a little surprised Castlevania didn't make it on the list, though. That hallway with the knights and medusa heads was just plain mean.

[Olinser]

Also, everybody commenting on Mega Man.

It was specifically Mega Man 9.

For reference, the bosses in Mega Man 9 were Galaxy Man, Splash Woman, Magma Man, Tornado Man, Concrete Man, Hornet Man, Jewel Man, and Plug Man.

Probably the boss most people remember from the game are the orange/green blobs in Wiley's Castle. They move from side to side one blob at a time, and the only time you can hit the boss is when the 'eye' moved between the blobs - so even with perfect play you only got 1 or 2 hits about every 12 blob pairs you had to dodge.

[Eldariel]

Also, everybody commenting on Mega Man.

It was specifically Mega Man 9.

For reference, the bosses in Mega Man 9 were Galaxy Man, Splash Woman, Magma Man, Tornado Man, Concrete Man, Hornet Man, Jewel Man, and Plug Man.

Probably the boss most people remember from the game are the orange/green blobs in Wiley's Castle. They move from side to side one blob at a time, and the only time you can hit the boss is when the 'eye' moved between the blobs - so even with perfect play you only got 1 or 2 hits about every 12 blob pairs you had to dodge.

That's just the same old Devil-boss (bit of a different spin, same basic idea) that was already in Megaman 1 as Yellow Devil. Was also in Megaman 3 and I wanna say one other game in original series. He's not hard; his attack pattern is fixed so you just need to learn it by heart. He's just tedious.

My comment was specifically on how silly it is for them to mention how Megaman 9 is a throwback to the old NES days and then to fail to name the NES-games, which are at least as difficult (though I don't think Megamans rank up that high in the difficulty ladder; boss weaknesses, large lifebars, even E-Tanks in the later games make the whole quite easy, though they have the "figure stuff out"-phase of course).

[MLai]

Ghosts n' Goblins was 10x harder than Super Ghouls n' Ghosts, even without taking the red gargoyles into account. Sorry Erikun.
I remember playing Super Ghouls n' Ghosts and feeling so relaxed because it was soooooo easy compared to Ghosts n' Goblins.

Castlevania was hard, but fair. I could beat it twice (New Game+) back then, and I didn't even learn about the unfair use of Holy Fire against bosses until much later.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yeah... this list seems to be composed mostly of games he would've played when he was a kid. And therefore less skilled at video games, unable to reliably get comprehensive guides from the web, etc.

Also, people are inherently suited towards certain genres. Totalbiscuit is terrible at platformers, that in itself doesn't mean that Mario is harder than Crusader Kings II and he knows it.

[Olinser]

That's just the same old Devil-boss (bit of a different spin, same basic idea) that was already in Megaman 1 as Yellow Devil. Was also in Megaman 3 and I wanna say one other game in original series. He's not hard; his attack pattern is fixed so you just need to learn it by heart. He's just tedious.

My comment was specifically on how silly it is for them to mention how Megaman 9 is a throwback to the old NES days and then to fail to name the NES-games, which are at least as difficult (though I don't think Megamans rank up that high in the difficulty ladder; boss weaknesses, large lifebars, even E-Tanks in the later games make the whole quite easy, though they have the "figure stuff out"-phase of course).

I didn't say he was hard, just saying that's the boss people probably remember. Most of the bosses themselves in Mega Man 9 were pretty forgettable - but the levels were pretty punishing.

[Bavarian itP]

The shield is NOT the strongest weapon. Because the game is not super-hard except for the red gargoyles, and the shield sucks against the red gargoyles.

That is weird, because I decidely remember using exactly this as the benchmark: shield killed "devils" mit one hit, other weapons did not. And so, the shield became my weapon of choice.

I'm beginning to suspect the C64 version that I played was quite different from the NES version.

[GloatingSwine]

I see no shmups on the list. I would like to whoever put Oregon Trail on that list to give DoDonPachi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3-jDEeiF0) a try, or even something more reasonable like Ikaruga.

Wot No Mushihimesama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM)?


(PS EspGaluda 2 is actually harder)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I think the hardest game I ever played was on the original Nintendo. You played a small soldier stranded on an island with an assault rifle, and you had to platform jump while shooting monsters/critters as the game scrolled to the right. Sometimes you could power up and become a much taller man that would bounce sonic beams off of his chest.

This game was simply impossible for me.
Amagon. I remember that game. It was pretty darn brutal.

[Choyrt]

OH MY GOD THAT'S IT!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Amagon_Cover.png/250px-Amagon_Cover.png

[Mewtarthio]

OH MY GOD THAT'S IT!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Amagon_Cover.png/250px-Amagon_Cover.png

...?

Um, why is there a giant naked superman growing out of that kid's lower back?

[Eldariel]

...?

Um, why is there a giant naked superman growing out of that kid's lower back?

Naked? Shirtless.

[erikun]

Ah, this thread has made me recall two games I've heard about. Never played them myself, but pretty much every description of Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Underworld:_The_Stygian_Abyss) and Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry_IV:_The_Return_of_Werdna) makes "punishingly hard" sound like a walk in the park.

Kid Chameleon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Chameleon_(video_game)) was quite tricky as well, from what I remember.

[Mewtarthio]

Naked? Shirtless.

If you really want to be pedantic, the superman lacks a lower body; therefore, he has nothing with which to wear pants, shoes, or underwear; therefore, he must not be wearing anything at all.

Unless... maybe he counts as wearing the kid's pants, since they seem to be some kind of gestalt being? Or maybe he's wearing the kid himself? Argh, even this game's cover is impossible to beat! :smallfurious:

[Bavarian itP]

If you really want to be pedantic, the superman lacks a lower body; therefore, he has nothing with which to wear pants, shoes, or underwear; therefore, he must not be wearing anything at all.


Maybe you should consult an ophthalmologist; the guy's pants are clearly visible.

[Cogwheel]

Maybe you should consult an ophthalmologist; the guy's pants are clearly visible.

He hasn't been the same since his contact with ADOM. Nothing modern medicine can do for him to erase the damage, I'm afraid.

Speaking of which, ADOM. That... That sure does exist? It's basically distilled hatred.

[Gnoman]

ADOM isn't that bad. It's far easier than Nethack, although that may be due to the latter's horribad interface.

[Cespenar]

Yeah, I agree.

ADOM isn't that hard when you drop a thousand hours into it.

[Legato Endless]

I beat Omega Trail at first try.
Isn't it the sequel that's supposed to be hard?

I also beat Ghost'n'Goblins at age nine. It's really not as hard as the internet claims it to be (unless, perhaps, you fail to figure out that the shield is the strongest weapon. I'm looking at you, AVGN).

Something else to consider is oddly, your 9 year old self might be more hard core at gaming than you remember. The original Legend of Zelda doesn't belong on any hardest difficulty list, but I was surprised in a recent play through that it wasn't the effortless experience I remember from elementary.



Battletoads is one of the hardest games ever crafted by mankind - but if you play perfectly, it is possible (though insanely unlikely) to beat it without a death (even without getting hit). THAT is a hard game.

There are people who've legitimately beaten that???

[erikun]

There are people who've legitimately beaten that???
I think that I've legitimately made it to the final boss. Or perhaps the boss on the second to last stage; it's been awhile. Definitely an aggrevating game to play, either way.

[Cristo Meyers]

There are people who've legitimately beaten that???

No kidding. I thought one of the later levels was bugged to be impossible to beat.

[DigoDragon]

I'd be surprised if Ghosts 'n' Goblins was much easier.

I just watched The Angry Videogame Nerd's review of it and I'm going to go with... no. :smallbiggrin:
It didn't seem any easier than the SNES version. Personally I'd say it was a bit harder, but that's just my lack of skills talking.



Also, everybody commenting on Mega Man.
It was specifically Mega Man 9.

Yes, that's the one I thought we were talking about.

It was very forgetable. Ideas for the series seemed to have dried several games ago. My favorite in the series was #2 though. Always a treat and the difficulty was fair.



The original Legend of Zelda doesn't belong on any hardest difficulty list, but I was surprised in a recent play through that it wasn't the effortless experience I remember from elementary.

I had that happen to me when I replayed it. My reflexes are apparently rusted, but it was fun when my memory of all the secrets slowly came back.



No kidding. I thought one of the later levels was bugged to be impossible to beat.

I saw a 4-person speed race to finish that game on YouTube. Took about three hours, but it was finished by one of them legitamately.

[137beth]

Yea, Battletoads was pretty intense.

Also, a few games in the Xevious series may qualify.

Kid Icarus?

[MLai]

Kid Icarus?
No, way too easy.
If we have to recommend a NES grey-box game... then I'd say Japanese Super Mario Bros 2. Which was not the "Mario Party vs King Toad" game.

I've beaten Battletoads without cheating. Promptly put it away so that I'd never have to look at it again. Yeah us 90's gamer-kids were a hardcore bunch; we didn't play sissy games like kids today.

[Tylorious]

Yeah us 90's gamer-kids were a hardcore bunch; we didn't play sissy games like kids today.

It's truly sad...when people feel accomplished after beating a campaign in a game like call of duty...When they couldn't even get through the first island Super Mario World, in fact I would venture as far as to say they couldn't even turn on the yellow blocks.

[Olinser]

No kidding. I thought one of the later levels was bugged to be impossible to beat.

Negative.

One of the levels is indeed bugged, but this only affects dual-player. The level is Clinger-Winger (I think it was level 10?), and Player 2's Clinger doesn't move, making it impossible to beat the level.

It is beatable on solo play, and indeed I have beaten the game.

Some of the levels are pretty close to unbeatable without multiple playthroughs to learn patterns, though, Rat Race in particular required near pixel-perfect accuracy and play to beat because even with a perfect run you hit the bomb around 1-2 seconds before the rat does. The last level also requires quite a bit of trial and error with the wind trying to blow you off the tower and platforms on the other side so you can't see them.

[Choyrt]

Battletoads was hard, but I was simply convinced I would beat it. That is, until this level....

http://cs4651.vk.me/u56093735/video/l_41f5fe20.jpg

[Eldariel]

Negative.

One of the levels is indeed bugged, but this only affects dual-player. The level is Clinger-Winger (I think it was level 10?), and Player 2's Clinger doesn't move, making it impossible to beat the level.

It is beatable on solo play, and indeed I have beaten the game.

Some of the levels are pretty close to unbeatable without multiple playthroughs to learn patterns, though, Rat Race in particular required near pixel-perfect accuracy and play to beat because even with a perfect run you hit the bomb around 1-2 seconds before the rat does. The last level also requires quite a bit of trial and error with the wind trying to blow you off the tower and platforms on the other side so you can't see them.

Honestly, it just has a lot of the standard Nintendo-fare where you have to learn everything by heart and every playthrough get a bit further and memorize it as it goes. Most platformers were like that, Battletoads just filled every corner with that stuff and took it up to 11. Me and my friend got to the level where it bugged in two-player mode, which obviously took some wind outta our sails. Never beat it as a consequence.

[Jonzac]

Falcon 4.0: With realistic avionics and all settings at realistic....Your rate of death skyrocketed and if you did get good...and then didn't play for a week or so your skills atrophied.

Hardest game i've ever played (1000 hours) and still never mastered.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

ADOM is all about surviving long enough to become unstoppable. On my second ultra win, I had trouble for the first few levels but after I grinded my stats to very high levels, I was unstoppable. I could use magic against what was too dangerous to melee and just stabbed everything else to death with a polearm.

Of course the newest version has fixed some of the exploits I used (kick robbing, ring of weakness training), but I could probably still win.

[Olinser]

Battletoads was hard, but I was simply convinced I would beat it. That is, until this level....

http://cs4651.vk.me/u56093735/video/l_41f5fe20.jpg

Really? I actually felt like Karnath's Lair was one of the easier levels - the snakes follow exactly the same pattern every time, and most of the moves have a fairly high tolerance for error. Once you learn where you need to go it is fairly easy to repeat.

I always felt like the last 3 levels were the hardest - Rat Race (you literally have just a couple seconds to spare, ONE wrong move and you lose), Clinger Winger (extremely long track and extremely low tolerance for error, if you didn't hit every one of the long stretches perfectly it was restart time), and The Revolution (damn those jumps to platforms you couldn't see when you jumped were annoying).

[Closet_Skeleton]

No Dwarf Fortress, any Paradox strategy games (Victoria 2 and Hearts of Irons series comes to mind) or even some of the more modern platformers like Super Meat Boy.

Yeah.

Victoria 2 isn't hard. You can win it without doing anything just by selecting the United Kingdom. The difficulty in Victoria 2 is mastering the mechanics, but while that is very complicated its also unnecessary for playing the game.

Hearts of Iron 3 is considered too easy, but only because so few people play it that the only people who'll talk about it can obliterate the USSR in a few months as Germany.



Also, people are inherently suited towards certain genres. Totalbiscuit is terrible at platformers, that in itself doesn't mean that Mario is harder than Crusader Kings II and he knows it.

Save scumming is a lot harder in non-emulated Mario, so I'd say Mario is harder than Crusader Kings II, which is really not that hard unless you're deliberately tempting fate like starting in Armenia.

Having a learning curve is not the same thing as difficulty.

[erikun]

Yea, Battletoads was pretty intense.

Also, a few games in the Xevious series may qualify.

Kid Icarus?
I never found Xevious terribly difficult. Then again, I like shmups, and so most that I play would make Xevious look easy anyways.


It's truly sad...when people feel accomplished after beating a campaign in a game like call of duty...When they couldn't even get through the first island Super Mario World, in fact I would venture as far as to say they couldn't even turn on the yellow blocks.
I don't know if that's too fair. I mean, they're two very different skillsets to master. I'd probably have difficulty playing through a Call of Duty game, but that has nothing to do with it's difficulty and everything to do with my inexperience in controlling a FPS with a controller.

Of course, I'd just play until I learned.

[Eldariel]

I don't know if that's too fair. I mean, they're two very different skillsets to master. I'd probably have difficulty playing through a Call of Duty game, but that has nothing to do with it's difficulty and everything to do with my inexperience in controlling a FPS with a controller.

Of course, I'd just play until I learned.

I can say out of experience that it doesn't take that long. Of course shooters are a bit clumsy with a controller but same goes for most genres (really, controllers are good for platformers, beat 'em ups and arcade-style games), but it only took me a week to get familiar enough with Golden Eye controls to perform just fine against people who owned the console and played daily. In the end, if you have FPS experience, the controller shift isn't all that.

[Pendulous]

I saw a 4-person speed race to finish that game on YouTube. Took about three hours, but it was finished by one of them legitamately.
I saw that as well. Or, at least part of it. Got kind of bored watching. Though, the point still stands. Plenty of people beat it. Still damned hard. I can't remember how far I got, but it wasn't the end, and I played the Game Boy version.

No, way too easy.
If we have to recommend a NES grey-box game... then I'd say Japanese Super Mario Bros 2. Which was not the "Mario Party vs King Toad" game.


One would hope not, I beat Super Mario Bros. 2 in a couple hours, without using any warps, and ending with 20+ extra lives. I don't think I ever finished "Lost Levels", but from what I remember, it is pretty hard. Not sure I would put it on a list like this though.

To whoever said Fez: I don't think a game like that belongs on this list. Not because it isn't hard, but because it's a different kind of hard. It's the kind of game that says "if you don't look this up, you'll never figure it out"> I think that's different than a game that's just simply hard.

[Mono Vertigo]

Alundra 2 is nowhere near the top 9, but I think it deserves honorable mention. That, or I deserve one for poor coordination, I guess. Never beat the damn game; last part I remember getting stuck on is the part with moving platforms and fireballs you had to avoid.

[Legato Endless]

I don't think I ever finished "Lost Levels", but from what I remember, it is pretty hard. Not sure I would put it on a list like this though.


The Lost Levels to some degree fall into the same camp as Oregon Trailer, they're really not that much harder, they're just frustrating because you can arbitrarily fail depending on where a hidden block spawns.


I don't know if that's too fair. I mean, they're two very different skillsets to master. I'd probably have difficulty playing through a Call of Duty game, but that has nothing to do with it's difficulty and everything to do with my inexperience in controlling a FPS with a controller.

Of course, I'd just play until I learned.

Obviously subjective, but while they are different skillets, FPS, modern or not seem easier in general. I can breeze through anything like Call of Duty, Halo and the like on the highest difficultly and still consistently be one of the weakest players when I go to a LAN party.

The difficulty of most FPS can be mitigated with good tactics, genre savvy and a sense of the environment. Platformers are far less forgiving, and take more 'pure' skill, at least in my experience. Granted, as a gamer reflex is probably my lowest stat.

[Cogwheel]

Obviously subjective, but while they are different skillets, FPS, modern or not

I think I should find whatever FPS games you're playing.

[Anteros]

All old school games. Where's Spelunky? Any of the versions of Spelunky? How about Rogue? The Binding of Isaac or Super Meat Boy? Fez? There's so many better games that should be on that list.

I don't think Binding of Isaac was particularly difficult at all. It's just luck based. Depending on drops it can be difficult or very easy.

[Legato Endless]

I think I should find whatever FPS games you're playing.

Admittedly I am generalizing, and this is based off cursory experience with bigger franchises. There is probably some lesser known or Indie titles I'm totally missing out on. That said, for example, modern warfare can be kind of cheap, but neither it nor Farcry is really that bad. And the first three Doom titles are overhyped as meat grinders. Operation Flashpoint on the other hand, I'll give you isn't a walk in the park.

[Cogwheel]

Admittedly I am generalizing, and this is based off cursory experience with bigger franchises. There is probably some lesser known or Indie titles I'm totally missing out on. That said, for example, modern warfare can be kind of cheap, but neither it nor Farcry is really that bad. And the first three Doom titles are overhyped as meat grinders. Operation Flashpoint on the other hand, I'll give you isn't a walk in the park.

Erm, I was just making a joke about the skillet typo, actually. Because that sounds like the best FPS.

I am not actually a big shootman.

[Legato Endless]

Erm, I was just making a joke about the skillet typo, actually. Because that sounds like the best FPS.

I am not actually a big shootman.

Ah, my bad, I misread your post staring into my tiny cell phone screen.

[The_Jackal]

X-Com: Enemy Unknown on Impossible + Iron Man

[Hiro Protagonest]

X-Com: Enemy Unknown on Impossible + Iron Man

That's less "hard" and more "a scientific study of how long you're willing to crawl a few squares forward each turn without splitting the party".

[Emmerask]

The most difficult thing I have ever EVER played is most likely
Supreme Commander 1 skirmish against highest difficulty AI (it cheats to a ridiculous level).

I do not think its possible to beat actually (on a none custom land map), the amount of units streaming your way pretty much takes all you have and then a few minutes in the first super units appear (when you have maybe tier 2 regular units...).

[MLai]

One would hope not, I beat Super Mario Bros. 2 in a couple hours, without using any warps, and ending with 20+ extra lives. I don't think I ever finished "Lost Levels", but from what I remember, it is pretty hard. Not sure I would put it on a list like this though..
Really? I don't remember anymore; I just remember it being harder than SMB1.
I've beaten every SMB game I ever owned, so it's hard to measure... no frame of ref.

Does anyone remember the name of a Sega Genesis ninja platformer game... it looks like NES Ninja Gaiden but with better graphics ofc. The game was very undiluted Jpnese in aesthetics. Many of the enemies were transforming undead demon centipede things. There was one level where you just fell all the way down and had to dodge/kill things while falling...

[Olinser]

That's less "hard" and more "a scientific study of how long you're willing to crawl a few squares forward each turn without splitting the party".

Yeah that's really not 'hard' so much as 'stupid RNG'.

I played it a few times and got close to beating it once, but it's just boring. All you do is get 2 Snipers and 2 Heavies with 1 Support and 1 Assault and inch forward, overwatch the entire way. The Assault double move should be used to scout.

The problem is you have to move so slowly that it can take nearly an hour just to clear a decent-sized map. It just gets so boring.

[Eldariel]

One would hope not, I beat Super Mario Bros. 2 in a couple hours, without using any warps, and ending with 20+ extra lives. I don't think I ever finished "Lost Levels", but from what I remember, it is pretty hard. Not sure I would put it on a list like this though.

Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 was only ever released as Lost Levels in the west. The western Super Mario Bros 2 was originally "Doki Doki Panic", but it had Mario characters inserted for the western audiences; the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 wasn't released here 'cause it was thought to be too hard.

It's definitely pretty high up the difficulty ladder.

[Gnoman]

Really? I don't remember anymore; I just remember it being harder than SMB1.
I've beaten every SMB game I ever owned, so it's hard to measure... no frame of ref.

Does anyone remember the name of a Sega Genesis ninja platformer game... it looks like NES Ninja Gaiden but with better graphics ofc. The game was very undiluted Jpnese in aesthetics. Many of the enemies were transforming undead demon centipede things. There was one level where you just fell all the way down and had to dodge/kill things while falling...

The only ninja platformer for the Genesis that I know of is the Shinobi series. Is that it?

[Avilan the Grey]

Everything back when it wasn't considered bad coding to have traps you didn't know about before you died in them once.

I believe it's called Fake Difficulty, and combined with Nintendo Hard... Though Nintendo wasn't first with Nintendo Hard games.

The most difficult game I have ever played myself was Ghost'n Goblins for C64. Not sure how I managed, it was at the time one of the hardest games on the market, but I played it to reset once. I could never repeat it before or since, though.

[erikun]

Does anyone remember the name of a Sega Genesis ninja platformer game... it looks like NES Ninja Gaiden but with better graphics ofc. The game was very undiluted Jpnese in aesthetics. Many of the enemies were transforming undead demon centipede things. There was one level where you just fell all the way down and had to dodge/kill things while falling...

The only ninja platformer for the Genesis that I know of is the Shinobi series. Is that it?
Strider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strider_(arcade_game)) was also on the Genesis, and is something I'd call a "ninja video game". Never played it, though.

[DigoDragon]

Plenty of people beat it. Still damned hard.

Yeah, I have a cousin that beat Battletoads. So it is doable.

I have two catagories of "Hard" difficulty games. There's the Frustratingly Hard game type, where you want to throw your controller *ahem Battletoads *ahem*), and then the Fun Hard type, where you actually don't mind the game being as difficult as it is.

For me, Solar Jetman was of the latter. I managed to beat every world, but boy was it a loooong flight. :smallbiggrin: Stuff shooting you from every angle, you're low on fuel, and the darn item you're trying to tow is weighing you down too much. Good times.

[Triaxx]

Megaman 9? Cupcakes. 5 was absolutely brutal. Looking at you Wave man.

[StLordeth]

Battletoads was probably the most difficult for me when I was younger. I thought since I beat Mario Lost Levels, I could ace this game no problem.

I was wrong.

[Cristo Meyers]

Negative.

One of the levels is indeed bugged, but this only affects dual-player. The level is Clinger-Winger (I think it was level 10?), and Player 2's Clinger doesn't move, making it impossible to beat the level.


I knew I remembered something about the game having a bug...

I could never get past the first jetbike level.

I'm trying to remember if Ducktales really was as hard as the Remastered version, or if I was just more hardcore as a child. I certainly don't remember having a hard time with it back then, but Ducktales Remastered was pretty damn tough at times...

[Drascin]

I knew I remembered something about the game having a bug...

I could never get past the first jetbike level.

I'm trying to remember if Ducktales really was as hard as the Remastered version, or if I was just more hardcore as a child. I certainly don't remember having a hard time with it back then, but Ducktales Remastered was pretty damn tough at times...

Nah, the game is pretty much the exact same until the last stage - which probably accounts for why I didn't lose a single life until that very same last stage and then died a few times in succession :smalltongue:

[Cristo Meyers]

Nah, the game is pretty much the exact same until the last stage - which probably accounts for why I didn't lose a single life until that very same last stage and then died a few times in succession :smalltongue:

More hardcore as a child it is then :smalltongue:

That last stage was brutal. I was having fun, sure, but damn. I think it took me close to an hour to best, probably had to continue half a dozen times or so.

[factotum]

More hardcore as a child it is then :smalltongue:

That's probably not too surprising. As a child, you don't have a problem playing the same darned level in a game over and over again for hours until you finish it. Adults tend not to be able to do that so much, if only because we have less free time than children and begrudge spending it on the same game.

I know that my ragequit threshold is considerably lower than it used to be, at any rate! :smallwink:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

DuckTales for the NES while fun, suffered from poor controls. Trying to consistently execute the pogo jump while moving forward was rather difficult on that d-pad.

[Cristo Meyers]

That's probably not too surprising. As a child, you don't have a problem playing the same darned level in a game over and over again for hours until you finish it. Adults tend not to be able to do that so much, if only because we have less free time than children and begrudge spending it on the same game.

If only because now that we actually have money to buy new games more often rather than being children we had to rely on what we were given. Little wonder we played the same game over and over and got good at it.

Nowadays, with a regular paycheck and things like Steam sales, buying something new (not Newly Released, but new) is much less of a big thing. It's a lot easier to just put down (or throw at the wall :smallamused:) a game than it was.


DuckTales for the NES while fun, suffered from poor controls. Trying to consistently execute the pogo jump while moving forward was rather difficult on that d-pad.

Something that wasn't fixed in Remastered, sadly. A source of much frustration.

[Eldariel]

Megaman 9? Cupcakes. 5 was absolutely brutal. Looking at you Wave man.

5? I'd rate it under 2, 3, 1 & 9 from the NES-styles in difficulty. About on par with 4 (which, granted, had some bull**** like Brightman). I mean, yeah, Wave Man is probably the toughest stage and boss in an easy game but it doesn't really compare to e.g. Quickman or Needle Man.

[Knaight]

I've beaten Battletoads without cheating. Promptly put it away so that I'd never have to look at it again. Yeah us 90's gamer-kids were a hardcore bunch; we didn't play sissy games like kids today.
1) Taking playing harder games as a sign of pride is kind of ridiculous.
2) There are plenty of modern games that are also really difficult. Just try to get through SpaceChem, or DROD: The City Beneath, or Dustforce. Sure, they all start out pretty easily, but the difficulty ratchets way up, and in the case of DROD and SpaceChem it does so fairly quickly after a while.

[Gnoman]

5? I'd rate it under 2, 3, 1 & 9 from the NES-styles in difficulty. About on par with 4 (which, granted, had some bull**** like Brightman). I mean, yeah, Wave Man is probably the toughest stage and boss in an easy game but it doesn't really compare to e.g. Quickman or Needle Man.

The hardest NES MegaMan game was 2, solely due to a single boss. Other than that, the bosses were fairly easy, especially Air Man.

[danzibr]

I saw Contra, facepalmed upon the declaration that it's unbeatable without Konami cheat code, skimmed over to see no Ninja Gaiden or even Batman for the NES.

Bad list just like every single one of them, this kind of subjective opinion could be kept to someone's blog.
Agreed.

You know what other NES game is really super friggin' hard? Solstice.

[Morithias]

This list is crap. I agree it's basically "most well known hard games".

By the way, I personally don't agree with Dwarf Fortress being a 'hard' game. Having a bad control system, and no tutorial is not 'hard'. It would be the equivalent of me saying "Princess Maker 4 is the hardest game I ever beat because it WASN'T IN A LANGUAGE I COULD UNDERSTAND."

Dwarf Fortress is 'hard' because it's a poorly coded mess, nothing more. The creator is trying to pass it off as 'hardcore' when really all he means is 'I'm too lazy to make it more approachable and easier to control'.

As for the hardest game ever? Hmmm...

Probably something from the Ultima series. Try to beat one of those without a strategy guide. Then again that's because they're old games, that often didn't have journal features.

It's hard to say, what I would consider the "hardest but fair" game. A game that is challenging without being punishing.

I almost want to say Terror from the Deep. But I can't judge that for myself, because I'm too scared to play it.

Edit: The reason I say "Hardest but fair" is that a game that is basically being cheap, or having fake difficulty is not hard. It would be the equivalent of asking for a "hard" campaign, from a DM and the DM deciding to throw monsters 10 CR higher than the party at you.

Hard and Cheap are NOT the same thing.

edit 2: Wait, depending on how we define: "Video game" I know the hardest videogame of all time...

Deep Blue.

Hardest game ever. The best player in the world couldn't beat it.

And it was completely fair. The rules were consistent for both sides, and neither side had any kind of unfair advantage. It was skill versus skill.

[Hiro Protagonest]

This list is crap. I agree it's basically "most well known hard games".

By the way, I personally don't agree with Dwarf Fortress being a 'hard' game. Having a bad control system, and no tutorial is not 'hard'. It would be the equivalent of me saying "Princess Maker 4 is the hardest game I ever beat because it WASN'T IN A LANGUAGE I COULD UNDERSTAND."

Dwarf Fortress is 'hard' because it's a poorly coded mess, nothing more. The creator is trying to pass it off as 'hardcore' when really all he means is 'I'm too lazy to make it more approachable and easier to control'.

Except there's also the cats and the nobles and the carp and the elves.

[Morithias]

Except there's also the cats and the nobles and the carp and the elves.

Which judging by it's player base, don't seem to be that big of problem.

No the main reason basically everyone I've ever talked to, played Dwarf Fortress for 15 minutes, then flipped the table and left is because it was a nightmare to play. Next to impossible to approach.

If the guy takes the idea and updates the engine I might consider it "hard" again.

Edit: Also weren't the "Legendary carp" due to a glitch? That's the ultimate form of "fake difficulty" being beaten by the designers lousy programming.

[Knaight]

edit 2: Wait, depending on how we define: "Video game" I know the hardest videogame of all time...

Deep Blue.

Hardest game ever. The best player in the world couldn't beat it.

And it was completely fair. The rules were consistent for both sides, and neither side had any kind of unfair advantage. It was skill versus skill.

That works for me.

[Eldariel]

1) Taking playing harder games as a sign of pride is kind of ridiculous.

Of course it's something to be proud of. It's an accomplishment, one where a player challenges oneself to do something difficult and succeeds. Of what value said accomplishment is is a different matter but I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of having beaten games other people have written off as impossible or simply never managed to get through.


It's hard to say, what I would consider the "hardest but fair" game. A game that is challenging without being punishing.

This is really ephemeral to be honest. We're working with air-thin definitions here; where's the line between a fair challenge and an unfair challenge? The easy part is limiting out games that are difficult solely because of the interface or some such. But e.g. Dwarf Fortress, is that really the whole story? Isn't the game quite challenging even after you master the game mechanics? Shouldn't that have merits on a list to this effect?

What about, say, the riding parts of Battletoads where the graphics on the positioning of jumps are really misleading since it's a 2d game trying to be 3d? Is that fake difficulty or is that just something that we can pass as something that stumbles poor players but is no problem for experienced ones (who, granted, probably just know the correct locations by heart?

Then on the flipside we have a more classic question: Are death spikes at the end of a drop an unfair challenge? I think all Megamans have those in a place or another, usually in Wily Fortresses. Yet, the game gives you multiple lives and doesn't in any way suggest it's supposed to be finished with a single life so seems fair enough to me. I think we can only call a challenge to that effect unfair if the game expects you to get through it without giving you the leeway to die a few times.


I don't think Deep Blue is a satisfactory answer since the game would need to be difficult this day, and yet chess has evolved to the point thanks to machine assistance that I wager Deep Blue wouldn't be competitive at the date any more (it's worth noting that Kasparov did take a round off Deep Blue so clearly it wasn't unbeatable).

[factotum]

I almost want to say Terror from the Deep. But I can't judge that for myself, because I'm too scared to play it.


I don't think it counts, because the game is such a buggy mess (or at least was on release, don't know if they ever fixed it) that it's impossible to tell if it's being fair or not!

Mind you, the original UFO: Enemy Unknown (which was not called X-Com: UFO Defense, no matter what Americans tell you :smallsmile:) surely should be included--we're talking a game with a bug in it that reset the difficulty to Beginner after the first mission, and yet it was *still* capable of kicking your butt in a hundred different ways!

Agree about Dwarf Fortress, by the way, which is why I'm interested in things like Towns and Gnomoria that appear to be trying to provide a similar experience but with a user interface that doesn't make grown men cry.

[MLai]

1) Taking playing harder games as a sign of pride is kind of ridiculous.
2) There are plenty of modern games that are also really difficult. Just try to get through SpaceChem, or DROD: The City Beneath, or Dustforce. Sure, they all start out pretty easily, but the difficulty ratchets way up, and in the case of DROD and SpaceChem it does so fairly quickly after a while.
1) Shut up you ain't consigning hundreds of hours of my childhood to wasted mediocrity. It's a valid reason for pride and that's that.
2) See #1.

(Thank goodness I had another major hobby besides video games.)

That's probably not too surprising. As a child, you don't have a problem playing the same darned level in a game over and over again for hours until you finish it. Adults tend not to be able to do that so much, if only because we have less free time than children and begrudge spending it on the same game.
Actually I think the major factors are not lack of games, or less free time. My games library as a child rivaled my Steam library now, and I beat every one of those games, instead of not even having half the Steam games installed yet. And it's not due to less free time; I think I had much less free time as a child, excluding summer vacations. For one thing I don't have homework anymore. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I think the biggest reason is the same reason kids can watch the same cartoon episodes over and over and over (I did it too). Kids just have that different brain process, I don't know what else to call it.

Mind you, the original UFO: Enemy Unknown (which was not called X-Com: UFO Defense, no matter what Americans tell you :smallsmile:) surely should be included--we're talking a game with a bug in it that reset the difficulty to Beginner after the first mission, and yet it was *still* capable of kicking your butt in a hundred different ways!
Wait what?
All this time I had been playing on Beginner?! :smalleek:
(I've never beaten it, I've never even seen Mars.)

[Morithias]

Wait what?
All this time I had been playing on Beginner?! :smalleek:
(I've never beaten it, I've never even seen Mars.)

Oh yeah and it gets worse.

The sequel Terror from the Deep? Well the company didn't discover the "Beginner" bug until WAY WAY later. So when they got complaints that the game was too easy?

Terror of the Deep's Beginner, is equal to UFO: Defense's hardest level.

Or rather what the hardest level was SUPPOSE to be.

[Tylorious]

I think games with a ridiculously in depth organization and time management system should be included, such as civ and maybe stronghold.

[DigoDragon]

DuckTales for the NES while fun, suffered from poor controls. Trying to consistently execute the pogo jump while moving forward was rather difficult on that d-pad.

One would never have thought that if they saw my brother play it back when it first came out. He could pogo like no one's business and complete the game with no lives lost. Me on the other hand... I beat maybe 2 stages before I gave up.

Day and night with that game.


Another game that got really hard with two-player like Battletoads? Chip n Dale's Rescue Rangers. Nothing like getting stunned when your partner accidently hits you with a box and then an enemy runs you over. Or worse, you get Thrown by your partner at the enemy and you fall off the stage for it. :smallamused:



I think games with a ridiculously in depth organization and time management system should be included, such as civ and maybe stronghold.

Sim City? :smallbiggrin:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Dwarf Fortress is in alpha still. You can forgive the poor interface for that. No sense wasting time building a nice interface that you are just going to have to scrap every time there is a change.

[Cristo Meyers]

Another game that got really hard with two-player like Battletoads? Chip n Dale's Rescue Rangers. Nothing like getting stunned when your partner accidently hits you with a box and then an enemy runs you over. Or worse, you get Thrown by your partner at the enemy and you fall off the stage for it. :smallamused:


I thought throwing your buddy around was the whole point of that game?

[Tylorious]

there is a flash game out there called "Impossible Game" I'm pretty sure that is in most difficult games, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat.

[Hiro Protagonest]

there is a flash game out there called "Impossible Game" I'm pretty sure that is in most difficult games, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat.

I'm pretty sure Dwarf Fortress is like a Paradox grand strategy game, but without the time limit. So you just keep playing until you lose.

[Olinser]

I'm pretty sure Dwarf Fortress is like a Paradox grand strategy game, but without the time limit. So you just keep playing until you lose.

Pretty much.

Just like a good number of older NES and Atari games - there is no 'victory' condition. You simply play until you quit or you lose.

[Triaxx]

Dwarf Fortress isn't hard unless you make it so for yourself. It just has a sharp learning curve.

[Emmerask]

Dwarf Fortress is in alpha still. You can forgive the poor interface for that. No sense wasting time building a nice interface that you are just going to have to scrap every time there is a change.

Actually if you use some basic programming paradigms then you would not have to change the ui whenever you change something in the game (mvc pattern).

Oh and I think any competent chess game would surely qualify (on highest difficulty), they are completely fair and only few people could reliably beat them ^^

[ObadiahtheSlim]

That's easy for you and me since we are trained programmers. ToadyOne is a mathematician. It's not as easy for him.

[Triaxx]

Bah, the interface is perfectly fine. It's completely functional, unlike some I've used.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Bah, the interface is perfectly fine. It's completely functional, unlike some I've used.

As someone who's played original X-COM and King of Dragon Pass, the interface is the reason I don't play Dwarf Fortress.

[Morithias]

As someone who's played original X-COM and King of Dragon Pass, the interface is the reason I don't play Dwarf Fortress.

Any tips for the Original X-com. I have it on steam, but it....scares me...

I have no idea why.

I've beaten Enemy Unknown on Impossible, but the original UFO just freaks me out for some reason.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Any tips for the Original X-com. I have it on steam, but it....scares me...

I said played, not beaten. :smalltongue: Both it and Jagged Alliance 2 never managed to entertain me long enough to beat it.

[Morithias]

I said played, not beaten. :smalltongue: Both it and Jagged Alliance 2 never managed to entertain me long enough to beat it.

Sorry for asking.

[Surrealistik]

Any tips for the Original X-com. I have it on steam, but it....scares me...

I have no idea why.

I've beaten Enemy Unknown on Impossible, but the original UFO just freaks me out for some reason.

Pre-prime and spam explosives, high explosive charges in particular once your soldiers have enough strength to throw them an adequate distance. Rush laser pistols and power armour. Heavy Plasma is desirable for tougher enemies that demand the stopping power (Mutons, Chryssalids; never rely on laser pistol overwatch to stop lids, Ethereals).

Chryssalids are not the laughable things they are in the remake (at least until you get flying armour); they are tough, have high reactions and TUs which make them difficult to Overwatch, and they one shot zombify regardless of target health and armour. They will tear apart tanks in a couple of hits (they can and will spam multiple melee attacks in one turn). Their AI in OpenXCom also isn't anywhere near as retarded as it is in the remake or the raw original so you will have no reprieves there.

Avoid night missions whenever possible, though autocannons with incendiary rounds can light them up fast.

You can also abuse psi and blaster launchers, but they're OP to the point of being gamebreaking, and rob the game of any challenge whatsoever.


Also openxcom is the rendition of the original you want to play:

http://openxcom.org/

[Benthesquid]

Speaking as someone who never played X-Com or King of Dragon Pass, I didn't have much trouble with the interface for Dwarf Fortress. Sure, I made extensive use of the wiki, but that's what that's there for. I quite enjoyed the game.

[T-Mick]

There is a game called La~Mulana. It exists to break your brain.

"Ye who has hope, there is still time. Turn back."

[factotum]

Any tips for the Original X-com. I have it on steam, but it....scares me...

Tanks are easier to replace than troops, and you can fit a LOT of troops into the Skyranger, so I always put at least one tank in there that's first out of the ramp. At least that way it will soak up some reaction fire if you're in one of those annoying situations where there are aliens watching the ramp at the start of the first turn! Other than that, the only advice I can offer is to not get too attached to your soldiers, because they can and will die off like fruit flies in a hurricane...

[Triaxx]

At least the DF interface is labeled.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Tanks are easier to replace than troops, and you can fit a LOT of troops into the Skyranger, so I always put at least one tank in there that's first out of the ramp. At least that way it will soak up some reaction fire if you're in one of those annoying situations where there are aliens watching the ramp at the start of the first turn! Other than that, the only advice I can offer is to not get too attached to your soldiers, because they can and will die off like fruit flies in a hurricane...

No, they're not easier to replace. You can recruit ten soldiers for the cost of one tank, and since they're going to be a frontline guy, you can probably afford to use two of the sucky guys as scouts until they either die or get better instead of just sending them home for no refund.

Tanks are good on the merit of having an auto-reloading rocket launcher with a good ammo count. And also because it's easier to micromanage.

[Triaxx]

On the other hand, while tanks don't get better, they also have guaranteed stats. And tend to hit more often I notice... Of course explosives make up the difference.

[GloatingSwine]

On the other hand, while tanks don't get better, they also have guaranteed stats. And tend to hit more often I notice... Of course explosives make up the difference.

You don't use tanks to hit things, they don't gain XP.

However, their front armour can tank lowbie alien weapons and they have lots of TU, which means they're less likely to be slagged by reaction fire, so you can move them up, spot the aliens, and swamp them in fire from your live troops, which allows the living ones to level up.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You don't use tanks to hit things, they don't gain XP.

However, their front armour can tank lowbie alien weapons and they have lots of TU, which means they're less likely to be slagged by reaction fire, so you can move them up, spot the aliens, and swamp them in fire from your live troops, which allows the living ones to level up.

Yeah, basically, rocket launcher tanks are the best scouts. Ability to destroy large amounts of terrain that's not UFO walls (until you get the hover tanks with fusion launchers...), lots of time units, and slightly tougher than a soldier in personal armor. And in a pinch, you can aim a rocket at an alien for high damage.

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, basically, rocket launcher tanks are the best scouts. Ability to destroy large amounts of terrain that's not UFO walls (until you get the hover tanks with fusion launchers...), lots of time units, and slightly tougher than a soldier in personal armor. And in a pinch, you can aim a rocket at an alien for high damage.

X-Com: Saving the world by blowing it up.

[Hiro Protagonest]

X-Com: Saving the world by blowing it up.

Only way to be sure. (http://youtu.be/olEbwhWDYwM?t=2m22s)

Anyway, if you want to talk about X-COM more, take it to the X-COM And XCOM thread.

[Thrawn183]

They should have included Twilight Princess, I wasn't able to get out of the starting village on that one.

[Anajamois]

Depends whether you mean difficult by design or difficult by accident.

Castlevania's awful hitbox wasn't supposed to be as terrible as it was.

[Triaxx]

Umm... are we playing the same Twilight Princess? What stumped you?

[Legato Endless]

Depends whether you mean difficult by design or difficult by accident.

Castlevania's awful hitbox wasn't supposed to be as terrible as it was.


Although that and the lack of directional fire did boost the utility of your weapons other than the whip. In the newer games with actual accuracy and 8 way shooting a lot of the weapons are gimmicks compared to the whip.

[MLai]

Umm... I've never felt it was the game's fault when I miss an enemy in Castlevania. But then I rarely missed with my whip. Dunno what hitbox issues you had.

[Thrawn183]

Umm... are we playing the same Twilight Princess? What stumped you?

I got as far as riding a horse around a field for a little while? Dunno, it was pretty forgettable.

[Harbajar]

Ninja Gaiden series.
Did this contain "Shadow Warriors II"?

If so, then I managed to complete it. But only after much xbox and Dreamcast hours. I will check to see if I have it still as my NES still works.

And now I have the music in my head.

[Triaxx]

Oh, the horse tutorial. That was annoying. Definitely give it another try. It does get better.

[DigoDragon]

I thought throwing your buddy around was the whole point of that game?

After a while I felt like that was the intent.

The SNES game Pocky & Rocky had a mechanic where if you slid into your partner, they went flying around the screen hitting everything... and then they'd fall off ledges, get crushed by moving walls, etc. :smallbiggrin:

[erikun]

After a while I felt like that was the intent.

The SNES game Pocky & Rocky had a mechanic where if you slid into your partner, they went flying around the screen hitting everything... and then they'd fall off ledges, get crushed by moving walls, etc. :smallbiggrin:
I don't recall getting crushed by moving walls, but you certainly did fall into water from bouncing around in that one. Of course, every time you did that you would end up stopping the bounce-around thing right next to an enemy and take damage. Every time.

That never stopped anyone from slidding into the other person, though, and then getting his as they spiral out of control - which caused the first person to start flying around as well. :smalltongue:

[Tylorious]

Are we talking about legitimate difficulty here or difficulty due to terrible controller schemes?

[Morithias]

Are we talking about legitimate difficulty here or difficulty due to terrible controller schemes?

I'd argue legit.

Little to none of this stuff.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty

I mean if you're talking just plain hard, I would argue a game that my classmate coded in grade 5. It was called the "impossible game" and the instant you started it, it immediately took you to the game over screen. You know, because it's literally impossible.

But I doubt anyone is going to take that as a legit example.

No unwinnable joke games, no fake difficulty. I'm looking for the hardest game that is tough, but fair. The computer doesn't cheat or rely on cheap tricks to win.

[Triaxx]

I played one of those impossible games. I quoted Wargames at him. Haven't spoken to him in years.

[Darcand]

I echo the idea that this feels more like an "infamous for their difficulty" list. Battletoads I can see being on there though, and for me it was definitely the PvP problem that made it so hard. :smallbiggrin:

Castlevania was really difficult for me as well (I only got about halfway through without cheating). Mega Man wasn't too hard for me. I managed it with a couple continues. Though I've played a lot of Mega Man games so maybe the experience with the formula helped.

I don't know if I'd count I Wanna Be the Guy as a game, so much as an exercise in pain tolerance. :smallbiggrin:

A friend once claimed that he had beaten battletoads with a game genie, another friend immediately informed him that battletoads can't even be beaten with a real genie.

[Olinser]

A friend once claimed that he had beaten battletoads with a game genie, another friend immediately informed him that battletoads can't even be beaten with a real genie.

Lol - the first time I beat it was with a game genie.

I kept a count. I died 247 times before I finally won.

Eventually I WAS actually able to beat it legitimately. :smallcool: