Paladin's Detect Evil - Mechanic Question

[Rej_D]

I'm running Carrion Crown (Haunting of Harrowstone, at the moment) in Pathfinder and doing my best to inject a sense of dread into my players. The pally might be immune to Fear, but I'm doing my best to make him and every other player feel it.

So, I've joined the long line of GM's trying to keep the pinging pally player from using Detect Evil to nullify any potential for being caught by evil unawares (i.e. taking away half my fun).

Which brings up a couple of questions on game mechanics. Since
A) The duration of Detect Evil is Concentration, and
B) The Area is a 30' Cone originating from the Paladin and pointing in the direction the Paladin is facing,and
C) This is an SLA which therefore requires a Standard Action

...is there anything keeping the Paladin from activating DE, then taking a move action while concentrating on DE, and turning his head all over the place to effectively bathe with Detect Evil the entire area within 30' of him throughout his move action?

I see nothing in the rules to prevent this. The only cost I can see for doing this (other than the pally having to give up a full move) would be to impose severe penalties on his Perception rolls due to his concentration on the DE.

Any advice? Thanks.

[Fax Celestis]

A cone is not a radius emanation, don't let him treat it like that.

Every round, he gets to determine where the cone is going to be, based upon the spell's rules. He does not get to "look everywhere": that's not what the spell does.

[Devronq]

Better idea anyone who's super important to not know they are evil there is a necklace of alignment protection can't remember the exact name but I do believe its cheap. I think it would be much easier to to hide other alignments than to do what your thinking about.

[Jormengand]

I'm running Carrion Crown (Haunting of Harrowstone, at the moment) in Pathfinder and doing my best to inject a sense of dread into my players. The pally might be immune to Fear, but I'm doing my best to make him and every other player feel it.

So, I've joined the long line of GM's trying to keep the pinging pally player from using Detect Evil to nullify any potential for being caught by evil unawares (i.e. taking away half my fun).

Which brings up a couple of questions on game mechanics. Since
A) The duration of Detect Evil is Concentration, and
B) The Area is a 30' Cone originating from the Paladin and pointing in the direction the Paladin is facing,and
C) This is an SLA which therefore requires a Standard Action

...is there anything keeping the Paladin from activating DE, then taking a move action while concentrating on DE, and turning his head all over the place to effectively bathe with Detect Evil the entire area within 30' of him throughout his move action?

I see nothing in the rules to prevent this. The only cost I can see for doing this (other than the pally having to give up a full move) would be to impose severe penalties on his Perception rolls due to his concentration on the DE.

Any advice? Thanks.

Unfortunately, the rules interpretation is largely correct. Worse, because even if he wears heavy armour, he's moving at a perfectly respectable 3 feet per second, he wouldn't even be walking very slowly. Abjuration spells/items, lead sheets, making him fall, and epic bluff checks are the only ways of keeping him from doing this that I can think of.

[Anxe]

He has to stare at the same thing for 3 rounds to decide if that specific object/person is evil or not. That limits its use in combat.

[Grollub]

if he's walking around concentrating 24/7 on detecting evil..

1) i would people some sort of check to see him scanning around

2) perception check penalties to notice anything not in his scan area

3) probably give him a headache or something doing it "24/7" after a while.. or fatigued

[Angelalex242]

There's nothing in the rules letting you put a penalty on his perception, mind you, except rule 0.

Then again, consider this also:Perception is not a class skill for Paladins. He probably didn't even put any ranks in it. So he's not worried about HIS perception. It's the rogue's job, the ranger's job, etc, to make the perception checks. Paladins are largely 'blind' that way anyway.

In short, a Paladin trying to perceive danger is infinitely better off scanning for it then relying on a skill he probably has no ranks in.

Thus, if you really want to screw him out of his powers, you're better off doing the moral quandary thing to try to get him to fall, or equipping your bad guys with angelskin armor (special material), which nosells his ability if they have less then 10HD of evil in them, or a ring of mind shielding, which likewise nosells his ability.

[Epsilon Rose]

You're looking at it wrong. The paladin constantly pinging detect evil is an opportunity waiting to happen, not a hindrance.

You see, there's a spell called Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm). It lets you assign auras to things.:smallamused:

At the start of this, let the paladin have his detect evil and let it be accurate. Then, start messing with things.

Just a few things, at first, some of which might even be helpful. That door over there? It has a very evil aura and, guess what. There are a bunch of ghouls behind it.

After he starts to rely on it, throw in some less useful things. Say an empty room with a heavy, but carryable, rock in the center. Make the rock radiate good and then put evil enemies in every room surrounding the rock. Let the players come to their own conclusions.

Eventually, start increasing the number of things that show up as evil. Maybe mask a few evil things as nothing (don't make them good unless it's meant for a real whammy, it'll be too obvious and it's liable to break the rest of the trick). The end goal is to have everything show up as evil with only a few points of light that you control and that are all, without exception, dirty lies. At that point, even if they catch on to your trick, his detect evil is effectively worthless and you've run him through the ringer.

If you really want to be nasty find or create a higher level version that works on creatures. Now half the party shows up as evil!

[TuggyNE]

You're looking at it wrong. The paladin constantly pinging detect evil is an opportunity waiting to happen, not a hindrance.

You see, there's a spell called Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm). It lets you assign auras to things.:smallamused:

At the start of this, let the paladin have his detect evil and let it be accurate. Then, start messing with things.

Just a few things, at first, some of which might even be helpful. That door over there? It has a very evil aura and, guess what. There are a bunch of ghouls behind it.

After he starts to rely on it, throw in some less useful things. Say an empty room with a heavy, but carryable, rock in the center. Make the rock radiate good and then put evil enemies in every room surrounding the rock. Let the players come to their own conclusions.

Eventually, start increasing the number of things that show up as evil. Maybe mask a few evil things as nothing (don't make them good unless it's meant for a real whammy, it'll be too obvious and it's liable to break the rest of the trick). The end goal is to have everything show up as evil with only a few points of light that you control and that are all, without exception, dirty lies. At that point, even if they catch on to your trick, his detect evil is effectively worthless and you've run him through the ringer.

If you really want to be nasty find or create a higher level version that works on creatures. Now half the party shows up as evil!

Note that detect evil (in spell or SLA form) does not differentiate between good and neutral creatures, objects, or spells.

[Angelalex242]

Well, there's also the Ravenloft campaign setting. Detect Evil functions as detect Chaos, and no power on earth can detect evil. And I mean nothing. The Dark Powers guard the secrets of evil like nobody's business. Even if you stand in front of a Darklord of a realm murdering an orphanage full of babies, he still won't detect as evil.

In places like the 9 Hells or the infinite layers of the abyss, EVERYTHING detects evil (and lawful, if Hell, or Chaotic, if the Abyss), so it doesn't work there either.

The magic aura spell is dodgy, though. It doesn't say you can put alignment auras on things. Only magical/non magical. It fools detect magic, not detect alignment.

[Epsilon Rose]

Note that detect evil (in spell or SLA form) does not differentiate between good and neutral creatures, objects, or spells.
Darn. You can still do the thing with the rock. It's just less fun.

The magic aura spell is dodgy, though. It doesn't say you can put alignment auras on things. Only magical/non magical. It fools detect magic, not detect alignment.

Double darn. I could have sworn that worked. Though, in retrospect, I might hav been remembering a homebrew monster designed to do just that sort of thing in horror campaigns.

[Angelalex242]

Ya know, my suggestions of angelskin armor and ring of mindshielding are perfectly legal by RAW, RAI, and everything else.

Don't need to be as fancy as you were being.

(And if the Paladin happens to be Aasimar, he'll be ever so righteously pissed off at people using his dead ancestors as armor, in the case of angelskin...)

[ArcturusV]

The other RAW, and RAI, way to cover it is playing off the ideal of the Magical Aura suggestion, false positives.

Not everything "Evil" is going to be ripe for Paladin Smiting, or even going to snap against the party. Having Evil NPCs who are kind, pleasant people on the surface can really screw with a Paladin. They might be "Evil" from a variety of reasons from squicky ones I won't really mention, but have seen come up in a game, to just things like they have problems with theft or impulse control and don't really care about it. Yes, I'm convinced most Kender would ping evil. They steal, constantly, show no remorse, and don't think twice about using a power like The Taunt to start riots.

But here's the thing. The first time you put out an NPC who pings evil, but is helpful to the players, seems like a nice guy, etc? You just put doubt on the whole ability for the Paladin. It becomes less of a plot bypass tool and more towards it's probably Intended Use, making sure your Smite Target is legit and not wasted, and door busting help. "I used my detect evil through the 1" of wooden door. I see 4 sources of powerful evil in the room, and warn my allies that there are likely undead or evil clerics in the room so we can prepare appropriately".

So, if it's a horror campaign, I imagine you are doing more than just hack and slash. You need drama and suspense as well. So non-combat scenes. Having people who ping evil to the Paladin, but are actually helpful, even critical NPCs that the players will want to rely upon? Not only can it help sell "horror" in terms of Paranoia, having the Paladin ranting about how he's evil, etc., even as he gives them free ice cream and warm apple pie, it also makes players in and out of character question if the Evil-dar is working, or if it can be trusted.

[Angelalex242]

Problem:

A paladin may not associate with evil characters. It's one of those, "I don't care how helpful he is, I can't accept his help, he pinged on the evildar."

I believe Pathfinder edited this to:

Don't associate with evil, unless it's to defeat a massively huge evil, and if they do even one evil thing where you can see it, kick 'em out immediately. Also, get constant 'atonement' spells during the quest.

[ArcturusV]

That's only a problem if the DM decides he wants to make it a problem. What does "Associate with" even mean? It's tagged in with a few lines that it suggests more like won't hire evil people or adventure with them. Doesn't say anything about "Hulda the Innkeeper is evil, so you can never be within 100' of her or lose your powers". If the DM wants to screw you with it? Well, he will.

It even has odd questions that come up like... the Succubus Paladin WotC did. She IS an evil creature, will ping Evil, etc. Does she associate with herself? She spends all day with herself. Does everything the evil creature does, fights with this evil creature, etc? Does her sheer existence make her fall to herself?

Really that's sort of the silliness you get into when you talk "Associates". The Paladin can't go to the Plot Hook Tavern because sometimes evil people have a drink there and he can't be having a drink at a place evil people do because then they're associating over shared booze!

The whole "Associates" thing is just stupid. There's a reason where the most common houserule I ever see is nixing it. "Paladins are responsible for their own behavior, not everyone else's". No one wants the Paladin to be playing Mommy Morality after all.

But even if the Paladin plays it straight, even if he sticks to the dogma of Associates with in the broadest senses of the term? What happens?

He pings someone who is "Evil". He swears this person is evil, and is gonna smite them, etc. Party member who's NOT a Paladin goes, "... dude... it sucks out here. He's unarmed. Not even a mage from the looks of it, no spell component pouch or anything. We're tired, we're hungry, he has a place to sleep and is offering some food. You are not smiting a guy who wants our help and is offering us stuff we need."

So he gets pissy. Maybe swears to sleep outside and that he'll be ready to smite the evil bastard when he poisons them all, etc.

... the rest of the party has a pleasant meal with this guy. Maybe doesn't like his "humor" or something as they talk because he's evil. Has a nice night sleep with no problems. He offers to help them out again if they're in the area because the heroes are kicking the ass of things he doesn't like (Like other evil things).

... suddenly you have a situation where the players realize "... just because he pings evil doesn't mean he's out for our heads...", as well as the Paladin having an issue because his teammates are accepting help from someone who is "clearly evil", but it's not like his teammates are evil.

So everytime afterwards the Paladin screams "It's EVIL!" with his pinger... the players will think back to that. Go, "Hmm... just because it's evil, doesn't mean it won't be worth talking to or even trusting perhaps". They'll go into it guarded, but they will go into it.

Combine this with Neutral and Good people who WILL do them harm... and suddenly the Paladin's Evildar, still RAW, just doesn't mean much in terms of your game. Good people can do bad things. For example sending the players on suicide missions ill equipped and under informed in order to "test" them or get rid of potentially evil people (Or expect them to make a sacrifice for the good of all). Or a neutral person who steals from them, etc.

[Sith_Happens]

He has to stare at the same thing for 3 rounds to decide if that specific object/person is evil or not.

And the count resets every time he moves the cone.

[Angelalex242]

That's only a problem if the DM decides he wants to make it a problem. What does "Associate with" even mean? It's tagged in with a few lines that it suggests more like won't hire evil people or adventure with them. Doesn't say anything about "Hulda the Innkeeper is evil, so you can never be within 100' of her or lose your powers". If the DM wants to screw you with it? Well, he will.

It even has odd questions that come up like... the Succubus Paladin WotC did. She IS an evil creature, will ping Evil, etc. Does she associate with herself? She spends all day with herself. Does everything the evil creature does, fights with this evil creature, etc? Does her sheer existence make her fall to herself?

Really that's sort of the silliness you get into when you talk "Associates". The Paladin can't go to the Plot Hook Tavern because sometimes evil people have a drink there and he can't be having a drink at a place evil people do because then they're associating over shared booze!

The whole "Associates" thing is just stupid. There's a reason where the most common houserule I ever see is nixing it. "Paladins are responsible for their own behavior, not everyone else's". No one wants the Paladin to be playing Mommy Morality after all.

But even if the Paladin plays it straight, even if he sticks to the dogma of Associates with in the broadest senses of the term? What happens?

He pings someone who is "Evil". He swears this person is evil, and is gonna smite them, etc. Party member who's NOT a Paladin goes, "... dude... it sucks out here. He's unarmed. Not even a mage from the looks of it, no spell component pouch or anything. We're tired, we're hungry, he has a place to sleep and is offering some food. You are not smiting a guy who wants our help and is offering us stuff we need."

So he gets pissy. Maybe swears to sleep outside and that he'll be ready to smite the evil bastard when he poisons them all, etc.

... the rest of the party has a pleasant meal with this guy. Maybe doesn't like his "humor" or something as they talk because he's evil. Has a nice night sleep with no problems. He offers to help them out again if they're in the area because the heroes are kicking the ass of things he doesn't like (Like other evil things).

... suddenly you have a situation where the players realize "... just because he pings evil doesn't mean he's out for our heads...", as well as the Paladin having an issue because his teammates are accepting help from someone who is "clearly evil", but it's not like his teammates are evil.

So everytime afterwards the Paladin screams "It's EVIL!" with his pinger... the players will think back to that. Go, "Hmm... just because it's evil, doesn't mean it won't be worth talking to or even trusting perhaps". They'll go into it guarded, but they will go into it.

Combine this with Neutral and Good people who WILL do them harm... and suddenly the Paladin's Evildar, still RAW, just doesn't mean much in terms of your game. Good people can do bad things. For example sending the players on suicide missions ill equipped and under informed in order to "test" them or get rid of potentially evil people (Or expect them to make a sacrifice for the good of all). Or a neutral person who steals from them, etc.

I believe associates technically means 'no evil party members.' The succubus Paladin obviously got rule 0ed, as what happened to her isn't even possible with the mighty Sanctify the Wicked spell, and I'm not even sure the Emissary of Barachiel can do it.

Plot Hook Tavern:Evil dude drinking 3 tables away isn't associating, because you're having nothing to do with him. Evil dude at YOUR table talking to you, now you've got a problem. (assuming a table is reasonably small. If evil dude is at the bar and so are you, but you never say a word to him, well, it's not association.)

Paladin sleeping outside of evil guy's house:Well, when ELSE is he gonna get some use out of immune to disease? The paladin can sleep in cold, wet, rainy weather and...not get sick. That's what disease immunity is there for, because practically speaking, few DMs actually makes people roll disease checks anyway! (It's not much of an ability if Disease checks never really come up...)

As for Good people causing them harm:Well, the problem with that is, celestials, and even their own GOD can cause them harm that way. "Go forth, noble Knight, and retrieve the holy relic in the Red Dragon's hoard." Pally's got no choice but to tell his God "Sir Yes Sir" and away he goes, whether he's high enough level for it or not.

[Story]

Detect Alignment is foiled by a long duration 2nd level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/misdirection.htm), among other things. I don't know why people worry about it so much.

[Angelalex242]

Will Negates, it's a Pathfinder game where Paladins gain cleric saves, oh, and they still have divine grace...

That spell has roughly a 5% chance of fooling the Paladin. (Don't roll a 1, Paladin...)

[Crake]

The magic aura spell is dodgy, though. It doesn't say you can put alignment auras on things. Only magical/non magical. It fools detect magic, not detect alignment.

Uhh, actually:


You alter an item’s aura so that it registers to detect spells (and spells with similar capabilities) as though it were nonmagical, or a magic item of a kind you specify, or the subject of a spell you specify.

Emphasis mine, but you could give the item a magical aura of an evil item (such as a sword with the unholy enchantment) and set the item's "caster level" to whatever you want to determine the "strength" of the aura, and it would pop up on detect evil scans, and possibly even stun the paladin, if you set it high enough.

Edit: That was from the 3.5 srd, but I just checked the pfsrd and it's exactly the same

[Story]

Oh sorry, I missed that it was Pathfinder. Of course there are probably lots of way to spoof alignment in PF too.

[Anxe]

Now that Crake mentions it, you could make the item seem like an Unholy weapon which would register evil. It still does say "nonmagical, or a magic item of a kind you specify, or the subject of a spell you specify." That's the limitation that matters in this case, but there's plenty of wiggle room there.

[Epsilon Rose]

Does anyone else have a, rather large, problem with a set of class features that attempt to dictate what kind of characters other players can play? I mean, that seems like something designed solely so someone (be it the DM, the evil player, or the paladin's player) can be a jerk.

[Starmage21]

Does anyone else have a, rather large, problem with a set of class features that attempt to dictate what kind of characters other players can play? I mean, that seems like something designed solely so someone (be it the DM, the evil player, or the paladin's player) can be a jerk.

I hate this particular "class feature" personally. Though I dont have anything real to add. I've never played with houserules to that class feature, but I'd freaking love to.

[Slipperychicken]

Does anyone else have a, rather large, problem with a set of class features that attempt to dictate what kind of characters other players can play? I mean, that seems like something designed solely so someone (be it the DM, the evil player, or the paladin's player) can be a jerk.

Ehh

Ban Paladin, substitute Crusader in its place. Maybe give the Crusader Detect Evil if you feel it's totally essential. Bam, problem solved.

[Angelalex242]

It...does kind of require jerkishness.

"I have this really cool concept, mr. DM, but it's evil..."
"I'm playing a Paladin."
"Well, there goes that concept."
"It's true. You'd be smited on sight the moment I saw you, and your cool concept wouldn't mean a thing. Alternatively, you'd win the resulting combat, but I assure you, one of us would be going home in a bodybag."
"Well, maybe next game..."

[Person_Man]

Not even close to RAW, but I house rule that a Paladin's Detect Evil works like a "Spider Sense" instead of the spell. When something Evil heading the Paladin's way or within the Paladin's line of site, they get a vague fluffy warning. Intelligent creatures that are not "always evil" can try and hide their alignment with a Bluff (free action vs Sense Motive).

That way, the Paladin rarely wastes a Smite Evil use, they get the fun ability that makes sense for their character, but when roleplaying it's not an automatic "well you're an Evil NPC therefore I hate you and ignore the circumstances and the plot" button.

I don't allow PvP in D&D games. So if one player wants to play a Paladin and another one wants to be Evil, they need to find an in game reason to reconcile it that does not involve working against each other or at cross purposes within the game.

[Angelalex242]

And if no such resolution can be found?

There's only so much you as a DM can do. If character a rolls an attack against character B's armor class, short of saying the 'the Gods smite you both', you're going to do WHAT about it, exactly?

[Jormengand]

And if no such resolution can be found?

There's only so much you as a DM can do. If character a rolls an attack against character B's armor class, short of saying the 'the Gods smite you both', you're going to do WHAT about it, exactly?

"You can't do that."
"Your attack misses. Even though it should have hit. Yes, I know you rolled a 20. YOUR. ATTACK. MISSES."

[Person_Man]

And if no such resolution can be found?

There's only so much you as a DM can do. If character a rolls an attack against character B's armor class, short of saying the 'the Gods smite you both', you're going to do WHAT about it, exactly?

I play D&D with my friends, who like me, are all in their 30's. If Bob and Joe's character's can't resolve their problems, I buy them a beer, tell them to stop being jerks, and resolve their character's problems so that we can continue to play a fun game. If that doesn't work, I repeat the process until they're too drunk to remember what they were arguing about.

[Fax Celestis]

I play D&D with my friends, who like me, are all in their 30's. If Bob and Joe's character's can't resolve their problems, I buy them a beer, tell them to stop being jerks, and resolve their character's problems so that we can continue to play a fun game. If that doesn't work, I repeat the process until they're too drunk to remember what they were arguing about.

Once again I lament that Person_Man's table is on the other side of the country.

[PersonMan]

And if no such resolution can be found?


Then whoever is being the jerk has to make a different character.

On the off chance you're playing with people who somehow have legit reasons for that to not work at all, then do something like have them roll for it if one of the two characters has to not be used.

[Slipperychicken]

I play D&D with my friends, who like me, are all in their 30's. If Bob and Joe's character's can't resolve their problems, I buy them a beer, tell them to stop being jerks, and resolve their character's problems so that we can continue to play a fun game. If that doesn't work, I repeat the process until they're too drunk to remember what they were arguing about.

Beer truly is the cause and solution to all life's problems :smallbiggrin:


Once again I lament that Person_Man's table is on the other side of the country.

I like Person_Man's advice on the metagame. It reflects an approach which we neglect far too often.

[Person_Man]

Beer truly is the cause and solution to all life's problems :smallbiggrin:

I like Person_Man's advice on the metagame. It reflects an approach which we neglect far too often.

Sadly, I think you are correct.

I grew up in fairly modest circumstances without the internet (I literally had never heard of it until I got to college in 1996), so maybe I'll never really understand it. But it seems like a lot of conversations about games on the internet ignore the fact that you're talking about people. People who want to have fun playing the game, people who have a sense of humor, people who you can reason with, people who can compromise, people who can ignore rules that don't work and write new ones that do, and people who can drink alcohol and get over it.

It's not an excuse for poor writing. But it's worth considering. If you have a problem with your meta game, the first question you should ask yourself is, "Have you tried acting like a human being?"

[Dapple Birch]

And the count resets every time he moves the cone.

let me just clear this one up.
Pathfinder detect even for paladins(http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/paladin.html#_detect-evil):
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.

I would personally rule that he could use his standard to use the standard cone version of detect evil then his move to use the single target version paladins get access to, certainly not two cones or "sweeping" his cone.

Also remember that in pathfinder detect evil doesn't detect most evil creatures that have 4 or less HD unless they're an undead, outsider, cleric, or paladin(probably inquisitors and oracles too?).


Personally, last time I had a paladin who was slowing down my game/killing the suspense with nonstop detect evil I threw a Barghest at him and had it cast misdirection on a bunny in the road ahead of the party before launching its own ambush as the true neutral barghest shapeshifted into a wolf.

Needless to say the bunny was slaughtered within 1 round of "threatening" the party.

[Dapple Birch]

...is there anything keeping the Paladin from activating DE, then taking a move action while concentrating on DE, and turning his head all over the place to effectively bathe with Detect Evil the entire area within 30' of him throughout his move action?


Also, if your players really think this is reasonable have them come across a giant who has a wizard on a rope that he swings about while the wizard casts lightning bolt for 360 degrees of electric fun. :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

Also remember that in pathfinder detect evil doesn't detect most evil creatures that have 4 or less HD unless they're an undead, outsider, cleric, or paladin(probably inquisitors and oracles too?).


I hadn't noticed that. It really changes the way Detect Alignment works and how a setting would treat it if "normal" folks don't even register on it.

[Reinkai]

Would non-evil undead show as evil? I know evil outsiders do, regardless of alignment. I'm imagining the pally in my campaign killing Vesoriannna.

[Yogibear41]

Didn't read everything, would just like to say that. Shouldn't Paladins be good for something? :smallsmile: My DM let me spam detect evil while flying around as an aasimar (had the feat for wings) scouting overhead of a forest to look for an evil undead I knew to be lurking around in them somewhere, in hopes that I might pick up something on my evildar.

[Anxe]

Would non-evil undead show as evil? I know evil outsiders do, regardless of alignment. I'm imagining the pally in my campaign killing Vesoriannna.

In my campaign, yes. But that's my own house rule. I don't believe they do unless they have the Evil subtype. Most undead don't.

EDIT: Derped and didn't bother to reread the spell for this post. Slipperychicken's got it.

[Slipperychicken]

Would non-evil undead show as evil? I know evil outsiders do, regardless of alignment. I'm imagining the pally in my campaign killing Vesoriannna.

In Pathfinder, only undead and outsiders of the alignment appropriate to the Detect spell will register (i.e. a chaotic outsider will not trigger Detect Law, and a good-aligned undead creature will not trigger Detect Evil).

In 3.5, undead of any alignment will trigger Detect Evil, as will evil-aligned outsiders and creatures with the [evil] subtype. I believe this is a typo, and undead should only trigger detect (alignment) spells if they are the appropriate alignment.


Bear in mind that if a creature has an alignment subtype, that means that alignment is central to its existence, and it will always be detected as if it was that alignment. For example, a good-aligned Demon (like that one Succubus Paladin*) is still made of evil, and will still trigger Detect Evil.


*Which really throws the whole system for a loop, since the rest of the game thinks that fiends are irredeemable. I prefer to ignore that possibility. Demons are made of evil, and should be irredeemable IMO.