Urpriest question

[Invader]

Is savage bard 5 the quickest entry into Urpriest? I can't seem to find anything better.

[Piggy Knowles]

Short of bloodline or Inspire abuse, there's no way to enter earlier than 6th, so if your goal is to get in earlier than Savage Bard 5, you're out of luck without major cheese.

In any case, Savage Bard 5 is probably the cleanest entry, and it's a pretty good one when you take into account things like Doomspeak. I am also awfully fond of Monk 2/Duskblade 3 for bonus feats and the ability to channel your high-level Ur-Priest spells.

[Callin]

[Retracted Dirty Comment]

:smallbiggrin:

[Invader]

Short of bloodline or Inspire abuse, there's no way to enter earlier than 6th, so if your goal is to get in earlier than Savage Bard 5, you're out of luck without major cheese.

In any case, Savage Bard 5 is probably the cleanest entry, and it's a pretty good one when you take into account things like Doomspeak. I am also awfully fond of Monk 2/Duskblade 3 for bonus feats and the ability to channel your high-level Ur-Priest spells.

Exactly how much cheese is involved in bloodline or inspire abuse.

[Malimar]

As I recall, Dragonfire Adept 5 works too, and doesn't end up requiring you to be Chaotic Evil.

[Invader]

Specifically I'd like 9ths by 12th level but preferably without excessive amounts of cheese.

[Piggy Knowles]

Both options are cheesy ways to break the cap on skill ranks, which is otherwise a wall preventing early entry. Bloodlines are the simpler option, and to me far less cheesy, since you are at least spending XP.

Basically, bloodline increase certain level-dependent features but do NOT count as actual levels, or affect your character's ECL. They do, however, increase your cap for skill ranks. So, a level 4 character with one bloodline level would be an ECL 4 character that could have up to 8 ranks in skills. However, that bloodline level does not grant any skills, and does cost XP. Still, XP is a river, so you'll get it back.

Inspire abuse is cheesier but faster. Get a bard to use Inspire Greatness on you, giving you two temporary HD. Then get someone to use Psychic Reformation on you to rewrite your skills. So a level 3 character can count as having 5 HD thanks to Inspire Greatness, making their skill cap 8 ranks (but doesn't grant you any additional skill ranks to spend). Then Psychic Reformation can change how you spent your ranks, allowing you to spend 8 ranks on the relevant skills.

[Invader]

Both options are cheesy ways to break the cap on skill ranks, which is otherwise a wall preventing early entry. Bloodlines are the simpler option, and to me far less cheesy, since you are at least spending XP.

Basically, bloodline increase certain level-dependent features but do NOT count as actual levels, or affect your character's ECL. They do, however, increase your cap for skill ranks. So, a level 4 character with one bloodline level would be an ECL 4 character that could have up to 8 ranks in skills. However, that bloodline level does not grant any skills, and does cost XP. Still, XP is a river, so you'll get it back.

Inspire abuse is cheesier but faster. Get a bard to use Inspire Greatness on you, giving you two temporary HD. Then get someone to use Psychic Reformation on you to rewrite your skills. So a level 3 character can count as having 5 HD thanks to Inspire Greatness, making their skill cap 8 ranks (but doesn't grant you any additional skill ranks to spend). Then Psychic Reformation can change how you spent your ranks, allowing you to spend 8 ranks on the relevant skills.

Hrm, I'm not actually sure I could get away with either of these in our actual setting. I guess 7ths are still a level higher than anyone else would have...

[gorfnab]

I am also awfully fond of Monk 2/Duskblade 3 for bonus feats and the ability to channel your high-level Ur-Priest spells.
Sacrilegious Fist: Monk 2/ Duskblade 3/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sacred Fist 10/ Enlightened Fist 3

One build I like is the Hellfire Ur-lock: Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8 (or Eldritch Disciple 2/ Mindbender 1/ Eldritch Disciple 5)

[Talya]

Sacrilegious Fist: Monk 2/ Duskblade 3/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sacred Fist 10/ Enlightened Fist 3


This is neat.

Not that I object, but you hit maximum ur-priest casting at Sacred Fist 8. The full BAB is still nice, but I'm wondering if more enlightened fist might be better...

[Chronos]

The other reason Savage Bard is favored for Ur-Priest entry is that it facilitates Sublime Chord, opening up the 9/9 theurge build.

[Segev]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does Savage Bard bring to the table specifically for an Ur Priest, over (for instance) a normal Bard?

[Dread_Head]

Good Fort save instead of Reflex meaning it hits the Fort +3 requirement of ur priest before 5th level

[Fax Celestis]

This is neat.

Not that I object, but you hit maximum ur-priest casting at Sacred Fist 8. The full BAB is still nice, but I'm wondering if more enlightened fist might be better...

It would, especially if you could somehow squeeze in two more levels of Enlightened Fist for Hold Ray.