Larloch

[Melcar]

So...

At out table we play in the forgotten realms setting 3,x. There there are some iconic NPC, some of whome are liked and some are hated. But ammung them is a lich called Larloch. For those of you that dont know him he's basically the über-mage power of that setting.

So I have a question for all of you... What kind of spells would a mad, über-powerful lich wizard have memorized?

Thanks

[BWR]

blabla Shapechange to Zordar bla bla bla Ice Assassins coming out his arse bla bla bla Demiplane Seed and Astral Projection bla bla bla Simulacrum bleaaaahh

Snark aside, the guy is incredibly intelligent and experienced. If the PCs are going up against him (the only reason I can fathom for you needing to know what spells he has), assume he happens to have just the right spells needed to preemptively counter everything they planned. Don't even bother to list which he has prepared, just give him what he needs any given round. He probably has enough scrolls to wallpaper his dungeon, for every contingency. He probably knows every spell ever made ever for FR, possibly ignoring some personal spells.

[Norin]

He probably knows more spells than available for just FR.
He's a master of portals and has traveled to a number of crystal spheres, planes and worlds.

He has made a point out of learning it "all".

[Melcar]

Indeed....

The PCs are not going agains him. This is for my own joy.

The reason for me asking this is, that I had some trouble finding the right spells for him. I just couldn't find the spells that really "fit" his character. I felt.

So its not so much, just give him all of them/make him cast as a sorcerer... its simply that I feel somehow that I have not found spells that does him justice.

[TuggyNE]

Indeed....

The PCs are not going agains him. This is for my own joy.

The reason for me asking this is, that I had some trouble finding the right spells for him. I just couldn't find the spells that really "fit" his character. I felt.

So its not so much, just give him all of them/make him cast as a sorcerer... its simply that I feel somehow that I have not found spells that does him justice.

You know, Melcar, you really have a thing for painstakingly statting up the innumerable complexities of high-epic casters, don't you? :smalltongue: That's fine, but, were I you, I'd just figure it's gonna take a whole lot of pondering, pondering that will not likely be facilitated much even by GitP's resources. Now, if you wanted to figure out what spells and other abilities Larloch was using for e.g. defense against, I dunno, random high-level bad guy X, we could probably give you some ideas, but just "stat out all the thousands of options and combinations used by a high-epic immortal caster" — that's too big to do more than bike-shedding.

[Emperor Tippy]

If you want a fluff FR wizard who should be played as a "tippywizard" he's pretty much the poster boy.

His published spell list is literally "all of them". His list of magical items is, literally, "all of them".

This is a guy who can and does make actual artifacts.

If you ever want an NPC who really does go "No, I'm just going to change my entire spell list, feats, and magic items during a quickened timestop at no cost" it's him.

He's about the only non divine creature in FR who actually barters and trades favors with a greater deity on a regular basis.

This is a guy who's age isn't measured in decades or centuries but epochs and eons. He has survived intact through two total rewrites of the laws of magic in his reality.

Basically, the very epitome of an Epic Wizard. One who has a whole collection of utterly loyal and dominated other epic wizards under his thrall. If you aren't a greater deity then about the best you can ever hope for against him is a minor victory.

[Cicciograna]

Basically what the other users said, with one other addition: lots of custom spells. After all, we're talking about the most powerful spellcaster in the Realms, who had PLENTY of time to amuse himself.

Really, every spell, however borked it would seem, for every effect you can think about, is fair game.

[ShadowFireLance]

I'm not even that crazy.

Well, I am, Sort of. I did run an 500th level Trisalt, with Immortals handbook rules...But still.

[Melcar]

You know, Melcar, you really have a thing for painstakingly statting up the innumerable complexities of high-epic casters, don't you? :smalltongue: That's fine, but, were I you, I'd just figure it's gonna take a whole lot of pondering, pondering that will not likely be facilitated much even by GitP's resources. Now, if you wanted to figure out what spells and other abilities Larloch was using for e.g. defense against, I dunno, random high-level bad guy X, we could probably give you some ideas, but just "stat out all the thousands of options and combinations used by a high-epic immortal caster" — that's too big to do more than bike-shedding.

I do! :smallbiggrin:

I know he has acces to whatever material I can find, and create my self, but I was hoping for some cool/powerful spells, that would fit his status. And yes, lets take an upcomming spell battle agains The Srinshee as situation to go by.

So if anyone can think of some cool/dark/powerful spells that would fit this guy, I would very much like to hear them.

Oh... and thanks for the comments so far!

[Zombulian]

Have his quicken Meteor Swarms like other wizards quicken Magic Missile. Have a single persisted spell last for decades. Give him the Transcend Mortality effect, but have it never run out.

[Melcar]

I have the following classes for him:

Wizard 22, Human Paragon 3, Archmage 7, Arcane Lord 10, Netherese Arcanist 5.

Feats as follows: ) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude

Feats: (13/8), Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster

Bonus Wizard Feats: (4) Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell.

Bonus Arcane Lord Feats: (2) Twin Spell, Delay Spell

Epic Feats: (23/10) Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic

Any comments about this?

[hamishspence]

What's Arcane Lord in?

[Melcar]

What's Arcane Lord in?

Dragon Magazine #340

[Emperor Tippy]

I would drop it for Cosmic Descryer 10.

Wizard 5/Ultimate Magus 10/ Archmage 5/ Cosmic Descryer 10

Cosmic Descryer is the only good epic PrC for an arcane caster.

[Alleran]

And yes, lets take an upcomming spell battle agains The Srinshee as situation to go by.
One of two things happens:

1) He wins. Landslide victory (he is, after all, a 46th level super-lich with a laundry list of special powers, some of which were granted to him by three generations of Mystryl/Mystra, including personally-written Nether Scrolls, full research into the existing Nether Scrolls, makes artifacts when he feels like it...).
2) He quits the battlefield and goes after whatever threat to the Weave (which he has a great deal invested in) is prompting this fight, using more divinations than anybody short of a greater deity has access to in accomplishing this search. And he annihilates it. Then goes back to his underground dungeon home and returns to his research.

He's a GM-beatstick to keep uppity players in line. One of the random abilities he has? It is a completely impervious spell shield. He cannot be affected by any magic unless he chooses to be. And if he decides not to be affected by it, it completely rebounds on the caster.

[Melcar]

One of two things happens:

1) He wins. Landslide victory (he is, after all, a 46th level super-lich with a laundry list of special powers, some of which were granted to him by three generations of Mystryl/Mystra, including personally-written Nether Scrolls, full research into the existing Nether Scrolls, makes artifacts when he feels like it...).
2) He quits the battlefield and goes after whatever threat to the Weave (which he has a great deal invested in) is prompting this fight, using more divinations than anybody short of a greater deity has access to in accomplishing this search. And he annihilates it. Then goes back to his underground dungeon home and returns to his research.

He's a GM-beatstick to keep uppity players in line. One of the random abilities he has? It is a completely impervious spell shield. He cannot be affected by any magic unless he chooses to be. And if he decides not to be affected by it, it completely rebounds on the caster.

Well the Srinshee is (by Ed Greenwood) about the same level as Larloch,( i remember somthing like level 54 being stated in Annotated Elminster) and have been said to suppas even Larloch in arcane skills. She is alo twise as old, and some say secret chosen of not only Mystra, but also the Seldarine pantheon.

But enough one VS the other...

I know about Larlochs perfekt spellreflection, but im unsure what spells to give him. I simply dont see hem gating in crazy beasts or transmuting into what he must see as an inferiour form (Zodar).

The problem is, that all his fantastic abilities that is cool in novels, have not bee stated in game mechanics, and that gives me a problem in how I should use the rules, when they dont include her personal flair.

I will look into the Cosmic Descryer!

[Emperor Tippy]

He has epic casting and is a Demilich who has demilich thralls.

More than that, he has been owed favors by greater deities. Favors that can be things like the deity using Alter Reality to make, say, Foresight permanent on him. Or Shapechange.

He can also have Archamge -> Wish Spell-like ability -> Supernatural Transformation for 2/day XP free Wish's.

Which can replicate Spell Engine and Psychic Reformation.

So Larloch, who can't ever be surprised, casts Celerity (which his Permanent Emanation: Selective Widened Temporal Repair makes something that only he can do), casts Time Stop, and then totally repicks his entire list of prepared spells and feats. All of them.

You catch Larloch totally with his pants down and completely unprepared? Before you can blink he is totally prepared and apparently specifically designed to thoroughly smash your face in.

[hamishspence]

The Larloch in Lords of Darkness is not a demilich though.

Admittedly that version was pre-Epic Handbook.

[Alleran]

Well the Srinshee is (by Ed Greenwood) about the same level as Larloch...
In AD&D she was 30th level (1 higher than Elminster's 29th). Her 54-level stats in Annotated Elminster were Wizard 29 / Sorcerer 16 / Archmage 9... but Archmage is a 5 level class and those Sorcerer levels don't do much for her.

Give her Ultimate Magus levels to cover her Sorcerer stuff if you feel the need, knocking off the requisite Wizard and Sorcerer levels to account for them. That removes 10 Sorcerer levels and 7 Wizard levels, while maintaining the overall spellcasting/caster level. Brings you down to 47th level, and then you can drop the four Archmage levels to bring her down to 43rd.

I'd back Larloch over her. She might or might not have the raw power, but that doesn't mean she's better than he is.


I know about Larlochs perfekt spellreflection, but im unsure what spells to give him.
All of them, maybe? I don't think he'd be opposed to summoning (more likely gating) in things if he has to, but stuff he calls up may also be something he's cut a deal with per planar binding or the like. He has enough wealth that he could trade even artifacts in exchange for services, assuming that his army of servitor liches can't deal with any problem that comes up.

And he could definitely get help from Mystran planar servants. Hell, if things were dire enough, he could probably make a gate attempt for Mystra herself and have even odds that she'd send an avatar through to help him.

All that said and done, I doubt he'd ever fight the Srinshee. He's made an oath not to interfere with Mystra's Chosen (and the Srinshee is one of them) because their presence is necessary for the maintenance of the Weave and furtherance of magic, from which he has garnered vast power. Similarly, her Chosen avoid him, because he develops and creates new magic that he's leaked out into the world as necessary to further Mystra's portfolio (the expansion and proliferation of magic in the world).


I will look into the Cosmic Descryer!
Netherese Arcanist as well. It's something that I think he'd be likely to possess levels in, given his history as a Netherese Archwizard.

[Xar Zarath]

I don't think you need to stat Larloch, since he can kill you very quickly etc

[Melcar]

In AD&D she was 30th level (1 higher than Elminster's 29th). Her 54-level stats in Annotated Elminster were Wizard 29 / Sorcerer 16 / Archmage 9... but Archmage is a 5 level class and those Sorcerer levels don't do much for her.

Give her Ultimate Magus levels to cover her Sorcerer stuff if you feel the need, knocking off the requisite Wizard and Sorcerer levels to account for them. That removes 10 Sorcerer levels and 7 Wizard levels, while maintaining the overall spellcasting/caster level. Brings you down to 47th level, and then you can drop the four Archmage levels to bring her down to 43rd.

I'd back Larloch over her. She might or might not have the raw power, but that doesn't mean she's better than he is.


All of them, maybe? I don't think he'd be opposed to summoning (more likely gating) in things if he has to, but stuff he calls up may also be something he's cut a deal with per planar binding or the like. He has enough wealth that he could trade even artifacts in exchange for services, assuming that his army of servitor liches can't deal with any problem that comes up.

And he could definitely get help from Mystran planar servants. Hell, if things were dire enough, he could probably make a gate attempt for Mystra herself and have even odds that she'd send an avatar through to help him.

All that said and done, I doubt he'd ever fight the Srinshee. He's made an oath not to interfere with Mystra's Chosen (and the Srinshee is one of them) because their presence is necessary for the maintenance of the Weave and furtherance of magic, from which he has garnered vast power. Similarly, her Chosen avoid him, because he develops and creates new magic that he's leaked out into the world as necessary to further Mystra's portfolio (the expansion and proliferation of magic in the world).


Netherese Arcanist as well. It's something that I think he'd be likely to possess levels in, given his history as a Netherese Archwizard.

I personally have her as (im also trying to write her up) 20 wizard, 10 Olin Gisir, 5 Archmage, 10 Incantatrix, 10 Elven High Mage. So a CL 55 Wizard.



I don't think you need to stat Larloch, since he can kill you very quickly etc

I know I dont need to, but this whole threadis because I want to. And feel that I needed som help with this project.

BTW... How does people feel about the Paragon Template?

[Alleran]

I personally have her as (im also trying to write her up) 20 wizard, 10 Olin Gisir, 5 Archmage, 10 Incantatrix, 10 Elven High Mage. So a CL 55 Wizard.
I think you mean CL 50, since IIRC, EHM is 1/2 level progression.

Why Incantatrix, though? It doesn't seem like it would really "fit" her at all in terms of her history.

[Melcar]

I think you mean CL 50, since IIRC, EHM is 1/2 level progression.

Why Incantatrix, though? It doesn't seem like it would really "fit" her at all in terms of her history.

Yes my mistake CL 50.

Incantatrix was because of her meta-magic mastery, or which I would assume she would have. Also I have yet to find something better... and then she would have to "just" have wizard levels instead.


So far Larloch looks like this:


Larloch the Shadow King


Neutral Evil Human
Wizard 22/ Human Paragon 3/ Arch Mage 7/ Netheril Arcanist 5/ Arcane Lord 10
Str: = 29 + 9
Dex: = 29 + 9
Con: = 0
Int: = 54 + 22
Wis: = 40 + 15
Cha: = 40 + 15

Hit Points: 564


Saves: Fort: +32/ Ref: +41/ Will: +53


Attack: +25/+20

AC: 55 (+9 dex, +15 bracers, +10 ring, +10 natural, +1 haste)
Touch: 30
Flat footed: 45

Counterspell Bonus: 62
Spell Penetration: 72
Base Spell DC: 40 (46)
Initiative: +13

Special received starting feats: (5) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude

Feats: (13/8), Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster

Bonus Wizard Feats: (4) Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell.

Bonus Human Paragon Feat: (1): Spell Mantle

Bonus Arcane Lord Feats: (2) Twin Spell, Delay Spell

Epic Feats: (24/10) Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic, Enhance Spell, Permanent Emanation

Item Creation Feats: (8) Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Staff, Forge Ring, Attune Gem, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Contingent Spell, Craft True Artifact

Wizard Class Abilities:
Scribe Scroll
Summon Familiar
Bonus Feat (5, 10, 15, 20)

Arch Mage Class Abilities: (FRCS)
High Arcana: (Spell Power: 1, 2, 3)
High Arcana: Mastery of Shaping
High Arcana: Mastery of Elements
High Arcana: Mastery of Counterspelling
High Arcana: Arcane Reach,

Netherese Arcanist Class Abilities: (Players guide to Fearun)
Epic Spellcasting, Field Specialization
Spell Focus (Epic)
Backslash Resistance 5
Epic Spell Artisan
Greater Spell Focus (Epic)

Arcane Lord Class Abilities: (Dragon Mag. 297)
Bonus Metamagic Feat:
New Spell
Recall Spell 1/day
New Spell
Expanded Spellpower 1/day
New Spell, Bonus Metamagic Feat, Recall Spell 2/day
Guage Weekness 1/day
New Spell
Recognize Spell, Recall Spell 3/day
New Spell, Arcane Mastery, Expanded Spellpower 2/day

Items:
Ring of Protection +10
Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity
Cloak of Resistance +10
Bracers of Armor +15
Belt of Excellence +12
Headband of Brilliance +12
Ioun Stone of Ultimate Wizardry

[Max Caysey]

I think he looks underpowered when compared to some of the other OP builds in here. But I'm guessing your going for power through non-cheese optimazation?

[Feytalist]

Couple things:

Con -, not Con 0. Con 0 means the character is dead.

You're using the FRCS version of Archmage, which has been superseded by the DMG version of Archmage. Is that on purpose? Because Spell Power 1, 2 and 3 does not exist any more in those forms.

The rest I don't really care about. Except as far as I remember Larloch's writeup in... Lords of Darkness I think? included about a billion ioun stones, so maybe add a few dozen more.

[Melcar]

He has epic casting and is a Demilich who has demilich thralls.

More than that, he has been owed favors by greater deities. Favors that can be things like the deity using Alter Reality to make, say, Foresight permanent on him. Or Shapechange.

He can also have Archamge -> Wish Spell-like ability -> Supernatural Transformation for 2/day XP free Wish's.

Which can replicate Spell Engine and Psychic Reformation.

So Larloch, who can't ever be surprised, casts Celerity (which his Permanent Emanation: Selective Widened Temporal Repair makes something that only he can do), casts Time Stop, and then totally repicks his entire list of prepared spells and feats. All of them.

You catch Larloch totally with his pants down and completely unprepared? Before you can blink he is totally prepared and apparently specifically designed to thoroughly smash your face in.

Is it possible you could explain the permanent emanations thing a bit more in detail? Not sure I fully understand what how it works. Has he got Celerity as a permanent emanation?


Couple things:

Con -, not Con 0. Con 0 means the character is dead.

You're using the FRCS version of Archmage, which has been superseded by the DMG version of Archmage. Is that on purpose? Because Spell Power 1, 2 and 3 does not exist any more in those forms.

The rest I don't really care about. Except as far as I remember Larloch's writeup in... Lords of Darkness I think? included about a billion ioun stones, so maybe add a few dozen more.

Got you with respect to con, I will fix that.
Yes I have given him the 3.0 version of Archmage, since i personally felt that he needed som boost of his Spell DC. He actually uses a fair amount of 3.0 stuff, since I feel its more powerful, and I would concive it quite possible, that he could well have this "ace" comepared to other casters 3.5.

Indeed his Ioun stones from LoD writeup will be added, but this was the items I have given him myself, and this being y version I wanted feedback on that.

Thanks

[Emperor Tippy]

Is it possible you could explain the permanent emanations thing a bit more in detail? Not sure I fully understand what how it works. Has he got Celerity as a permanent emanation?

Temporal Repair is a spell that prevents the use of time manipulation in the area it covers (such as Celerity and Time Stop). Selective is a metamagic that lets you pick one individual to be totally ignored by a given spell, in this case Larloch.

Permanent Emanation is an epic feat that makes a spell that has an emanation permanent.

So Permanent Emanation: Selective Temporal Repair means that only Larloch gets to manipulate time in a significant area around him.

[Melcar]

Temporal Repair is a spell that prevents the use of time manipulation in the area it covers (such as Celerity and Time Stop). Selective is a metamagic that lets you pick one individual to be totally ignored by a given spell, in this case Larloch.

Permanent Emanation is an epic feat that makes a spell that has an emanation permanent.

So Permanent Emanation: Selective Temporal Repair means that only Larloch gets to manipulate time in a significant area around him.


Thanks! Thats real nice!

[Fouredged Sword]

I also suggest Permanent Emanation: Selective Anti Magic Field, and Permanent Emanation: Dimensional Anchor.

[Emperor Tippy]

Permanent Emanation: Dimensional Anchor.
That one doesn't work as it's illegal. Permanent Emanation only works with emanations that can be centered on a creature. Dimensional Anchor isn't any kind of emanation.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am sure the BBEG lich epic level wizard has a version of the spell that is.