Ideas for military themed campaign.

[Guyver87]

Lately the DM of my group has been quite occupied, by family troubles, so me and my friend had decided to create a mini-campaign, to occupy ourselves, until DM is able to return.

The main idea is, that we would be playing as members of the Cormyrian military team, made from... troublesome soldiers, who specialize in "impossible" missions. Essentially it's supposed to be something like a cross between Deadly Dozen, and Inglorious Basterds.

We decided, that it would be a simple, low-magic campaign, without Martial Adepts, Incarnum, Psionics etc, and that the only classes available would be the ones, which fit with the whole "military" theme.

So, no Clerics, no Monks, no Druids, no Warlocks, and only casters in the group would be a Warmage, and a Healer.

For now we've decided, that the team would consist of a Marshall, Warmage, Healer, two Scouts/Non-magic Rangers, two Fighters, and a Rogue.

But are there any other "military" classes, or PrCs, that could be used in such a campaign?

We plan to start on level 8, or 10, if that helps.

Thanks in advance.

[hamishspence]

Heroes of Battle may be of some use in this sort of campaign.

Tome of Battle: The Book of 9 Swords has the White Raven school, which is very, very good for large squads. It also has 3 classes, two of which can use that school. Both of which could be called "low-magic" (the Warblade, and the Crusader).

While you suggested "no Martial Adepts" - those two really are perfect.

The Scout (Complete Adventurer) also fits neatly- being basically a hybrid of a Rogue and a magicless Ranger.

EDIT: Apparently you've already got scouts.

How about a Factotum from Dungeonscape- a all-rounder of a class?

[Captnq]

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U).

This is my rifle...

[Guyver87]

Yes, I totally forgot about "Heroes of Battle", so thanks for reminding me of it.

About Martial Adepts, I'm not really sure it would fit the theme.

In our previous campaigns we've portrayed Warblades as sorta-kinda elite bounty hunters/mercenaries, while Crusaders were always affiliated with official religions.

Also, in the campaign, when there is only one offensive caster, they would quickly outshine rest of the team...


THIS.
This is my rifle...

How do You know, we based our Marshall on Sergeant Hartman? It was actually a first character we thought about, when discussing the campaign theme :smallbiggrin:

[hamishspence]

That's why you focus heavily on White Raven (and anything in Devoted Spirit that might buff your buddies).

You are the guy who makes the rest of the team better. Like Marshal, but more so.

Bard is a good military, low-powered caster - play martial music, drums, etc.

From Player's Handbook II, Knight might work- though it could use a little reworking.

[Juntao112]

no Clerics

Uh oh... someon's going to get smited...


no Warlocks


But it has "war" right in the name!

[hamishspence]

The main idea is, that we would be playing as members of the Cormyrian military team, made from... troublesome soldiers, who specialize in "impossible" missions. Essentially it's supposed to be something like a cross between Deadly Dozen, and Inglorious Basterds.
...
But are there any other "military" classes, or PrCs, that could be used in such a campaign?

Purple Dragon Knight is a Cormyr-centric prestige class.

[Guyver87]

That's why you focus heavily on White Raven (and anything in Devoted Spirit that might buff your buddies).

You are the guy who makes the rest of the team better. Like Marshal, but more so.


Hmm... White Raven focused Crusader, could be quite useful, and after re-reading fluff text in the Maneuvers descriptions i remembered it's not really magic-based...

You convinced me, I'll run that idea to my friend, and we'll see.

Knight would do too, but only with heavy reworking, as this team is a bunch of barely restrained psychos, not a chivalrous warriors.

There is the same problem, with Purple Dragon Knights too. And IMO this PrC is not very spectacular anyway.

Dunno about Bards, but I'll look into ACF's, and PRC's that could fit the theme, so maybe. War Weaver should be good...


Uh oh... someon's going to get smited...

The whole idea for this campaign is to force players, to develop some sort of teamwork, and tactics, cause with our usual characters, who are MinMaxed, and optimized to the ridiculous degree all PC are able to pulverize armies all by themselves.

Use of low-tier classes, should theoretically prevent that. Theoretically...

Yet again, thank You all for all those wonderful ideas.

[ArqArturo]

That's why you focus heavily on White Raven (and anything in Devoted Spirit that might buff your buddies).

You are the guy who makes the rest of the team better. Like Marshal, but more so.

Bard is a good military, low-powered caster - play martial music, drums, etc.

From Player's Handbook II, Knight might work- though it could use a little reworking.

Actually, the idea of a Warblade/Marshall with pure White Raven would make you a pretty awesome party buffer. Think of a cheerleader, that suddenly turns into the quarterback, and runs around with an axe, twirling and jumping all around the field, with blood, guts and axe instead of pom-poms.

[Guyver87]

Think of a cheerleader, that suddenly turns into the quarterback, and runs around with an axe, twirling and jumping all around the field, with blood, guts and axe instead of pom-poms.

This is a mental image, that would stay with me forever...

But seriously, that could really work, but I'm still afraid, that it might be a little too powerful for such campaign.

Cause that way, we would get a hybrid of Sergeant Hartman from "Full Metal Jacket", Colonel Kilgore from "Apocalypse Now", and Conan the Barbarian. I do not know if one campaign can contain so much awesomeness...

[hamishspence]

Not sure how well Marshal synergizes with Warblade- and how much such a character would be giving up in the process.

[Red Fel]

Actually, depending on the setting, having someone with a dip in Bard is almost mandatory for a military group. For one thing, every military needed its pipers, or drummers or what have you, to establish marching order and rhythm, to give allies a beacon upon which to converge, and so forth. For another, if your team is one of those "undesirables" brigades, it helps to have a charming face that can go on infiltration and disguise missions for you.

Also, going on the record as saying your setting idea is awesome and you should feel awesome.

[ArqArturo]

Not sure how well Marshal synergizes with Warblade- and how much such a character would be giving up in the process.

Honestly, I don't think you lose that much on the warblade, since to me, the better bit of the warblade is how he readies his stances and moves, stuff like critical confimation and uncanny dodge are meh. On the other hand, if I would've suggested Swordsage or Crusader, then you lose much more, since both classes are pretty awesome by themselves.

Marshall, on the other hand, gains quite more by dipping on warblade, and works rather well.

[Guyver87]

Not sure how well Marshal synergizes with Warblade- and how much such a character would be giving up in the process.

Well, I never played Marshall before, but from the quick glance on the class, level 5 would be a good moment to multiclass, as he would only get something new two levels later.

So it would be Marshal 5/Warblade 5, and that looks quite nice: 3 Minor Auras, 2 Major Auras, 6 Maneuvers Known, and 2 Stances...

BTW. Do Marshal auras also work on him? Because Motivate Charisma could be usefull...


Also, going on the record as saying your setting idea is awesome and you should feel awesome.

I wish, I could take a credit for it, but whole glory belongs to my pal Jibril, who came up with the idea. Actually, in our group both of us serve as DM assistants, with well defined roles: He is the Roleplayer, and a Idea Guy, I am the MinMaxer, and a Rules Lawyer, and our DM stands in the middle, and tries to balance this two approaches.

But I do thank You for Your kind words on his behalf.

And of course I thank all the posters, for the advice I was given.

[ArqArturo]

Also, it should kind of look like this (http://youtu.be/4v0Afcsp3ZQ).

EDIT: Yes, it does affect everyone, including you. For more info, here's the Marshall (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b).

[Guyver87]

Yes, it does affect everyone, including you. For more info, here's the Marshall.

Erm... Yes. Note to self: Learn to read, before starting to bother people with questions... Sorry about that.

Thanks for Your help.

[ArqArturo]

Erm... Yes. Note to self: Learn to read, before starting to bother people with questions... Sorry about that.

Thanks for Your help.

Nah, it's ok. It happens to the best of us.

[Callin]

Why no actual Wizards? Cormyr has a whole division of em, The War Wizards of Cormyr.

The Cormyr Army is actually made up of all sorts of Magic and Mundane Classes. Why limit yourself from the normal. I can understand the strange and not very Forgotten Realm Centric classes like Incarnum and such.

[ArqArturo]

Why no actual Wizards? Cormyr has a whole division of em, The War Wizards of Cormyr.

The Cormyr Army is actually made up of all sorts of Magic and Mundane Classes. Why limit yourself from the normal. I can understand the strange and not very Forgotten Realm Centric classes like Incarnum and such.

The one thing that I hate of FR, is that you always seem to find high-powered npcs that, well, make you small and useless.

[OOPWER]

A little statement about the Knight: Every 'undesirables' brigade can, and probably should, have some sort of by-the-book commissar-like character.

[Twilightwyrm]

Actually, depending on the setting, having someone with a dip in Bard is almost mandatory for a military group. For one thing, every military needed its pipers, or drummers or what have you, to establish marching order and rhythm, to give allies a beacon upon which to converge, and so forth. For another, if your team is one of those "undesirables" brigades, it helps to have a charming face that can go on infiltration and disguise missions for you.

Also, going on the record as saying your setting idea is awesome and you should feel awesome.

Not to mention they tend to be good support for units of Archers. A single effective bard can significantly increase the damage of an archer unit's arrow volley with Inspire Courage (or Dragonfire Inspiration, depending on the Bard). While arrow volleys don't deal any additional damage from Strength, they add other types of damage normally. This combination makes for a fairly effective anti-infantry tactic.

[Guyver87]

Why no actual Wizards? Cormyr has a whole division of em, The War Wizards of Cormyr.

The Cormyr Army is actually made up of all sorts of Magic and Mundane Classes. Why limit yourself from the normal.

Well, we have a Warmage who is, or rather was a member of War Wizards, as a part of his backstory, and a Healer, so it's not like we adopted "magic = bad" stance.

It's just a lot harder to dominate the battlefield using a class, that is so narrowly focused, like Warmage, than a generalist Wizard.

As I written before, this whole campaign is something like team tactics training, because players have work around the fact, that instead of one class which can buff others, heal and rip enemies apart (Druid, Cleric), they now have three separate characters that have to fill the same roles (Marshal, Healer, Warmage).


The one thing that I hate of FR, is that you always seem to find high-powered npcs that, well, make you small and useless.

Yeah, in our usual campaign we got a mission of questioning Klauth about his connections to the Dragon Cult. Questioning very politely, because our DM felt he was too weak, for such a powerful, and ancient dragon. So now, he could take over Toril without problems, if he bothered to...

And don't get me started on the number of Chosen, and Exarchs nearly every god seems to have...


A little statement about the Knight: Every 'undesirables' brigade can, and probably should, have some sort of by-the-book commissar-like character.

We've decided, that the Marshal/Eventual Warblade, would fit such role, as a commanding officer of the brigade. He also has this commissar-like mentality... if we are talking about Warhammer 40000 Commisars :smallwink:


Not to mention they tend to be good support for units of Archers. A single effective bard can significantly increase the damage of an archer unit's arrow volley with Inspire Courage (or Dragonfire Inspiration, depending on the Bard). While arrow volleys don't deal any additional damage from Strength, they add other types of damage normally. This combination makes for a fairly effective anti-infantry tactic.

Since everybody is suggesting Bards, that probably means, that I have to include one... Now, I'll have to came up with sufficiently disturbing backstory for him, so he would not feel out of place, compared to the psychos that made up this unit.

So again, thanks to all of You who took time, to help me.

[Ravens_cry]

I've pondered doing a military style campaign. One trouble is having characters with actual rank over the PC's might feel too much like railroading. "You will do plot X or you will be court-martialed."

[AMFV]

I've pondered doing a military style campaign. One trouble is having characters with actual rank over the PC's might feel too much like railroading. "You will do plot X or you will be court-martialed."

I would definitely give them some leeway in operations. Make them a special operations squad that can assist the commanders, but acts on their own purview most of the time. It's even better because if you have any real military people it'll be wish fulfillment, since everybody in the military wants that.

I would have the missions involve lots of reconnaissance and scouting, so that players have opportunities to plan and evade. Destruction of strategic resources and targets, a la the Guns of Navarrone, so that the players can aide in the strategic mission without becoming random corporal number five. Disruption of communications, allowing ambushes and that sort of thing, assassination of high level enemy officers. Hostage rescue is also good, always popular.

You could involve modern military tactics as well, FOs (Forward Observers) work in D&D, basically they'd move ahead with Chain of Eyes on them and allow Arcanists to cast destructive spells from a distance. You could have them do underwater infiltration of enemy locations, using water breathing or alter self.

I would definitely start with some kind of hazing or initiation (not in real life, in the game). Not a training type thing, but rather a difficult mission so that way the players can start to get into the mindset of men who can depend on each other without question. It would be pretty fun.

[watchwood]

I've pondered doing a military style campaign. One trouble is having characters with actual rank over the PC's might feel too much like railroading. "You will do plot X or you will be court-martialed."

I'm currently running a scifi military campaign. The trick to it is to grant open-ended objectives to the party. "Patrol this area", "investigate this report", "confirm this intelligence", "secure that building", etc. As long as you leave the particulars of actually doing it to the party, they're not that much different from normal quests and plot hooks.

[Bonzai]

One of my favorite inspirations for running a D&D military campaign, is the old Exo Squad cartoon series. They were a small unit, who were assigned to various critical missions that had impacts on the greater war effort. They didn't single handedly fight off armies, and they were only a small part of greater battles, but what they did mattered to the greater conflict.

That's the kind of feel I try and convey when I involve my players in a war.

[Kuulvheysoon]

One of my favorite inspirations for running a D&D military campaign, is the old Exo Squad cartoon series. They were a small unit, who were assigned to various critical missions that had impacts on the greater war effort. They didn't single handedly fight off armies, and they were only a small part of greater battles, but what they did mattered to the greater conflict.

That's the kind of feel I try and convey when I involve my players in a war.

Funny enough, this is almost exactly what they recommend doing in Complete Warrior (which also has some information on military-style campaigns).

[Slipperychicken]

It would be pretty flavorful for each character to have at least a single rank in Perform (Weapon Drill) and/or Combat Signs (a sign-language presented in Heroes of Battle, for communicating martial information silently). The former gives them something to do during parades and demonstrations (also to "prove" to others that they're real soldiers), and the latter allows them to convey commands and information without exposing themselves.



About Martial Adepts, I'm not really sure it would fit the theme.

In our previous campaigns we've portrayed Warblades as sorta-kinda elite bounty hunters/mercenaries, while Crusaders were always affiliated with official religions.

Also, in the campaign, when there is only one offensive caster, they would quickly outshine rest of the team...


I would disagree with this decision, but I do see its merit in a martial campaign. Characters without "special moves" feel more like ordinary/mortal people in play, while Tome of Battle classes seem to represent a higher power level.

I will contend, however, that Crusaders need not be focused on religion. One could, for example, have a Crusader who draws strength from unflinching devotion to his country's ideals (Captain America comes to mind as an example character), or even love for his country regardless of its ideals or lack thereof (saying things like "Oceania is the greatest country! Big Brother has given to me the duty of defending the state against our eternal enemy, Eastasia, and I would sooner die than disgrace them! Glory to Oceania!").



How do You know, we based our Marshall on Sergeant Hartman? It was actually a first character we thought about, when discussing the campaign theme :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, who else would you base him off, but the most awesome/iconic fictional drill sergeant around? :smallbiggrin:

[Sgtpepper]

2 Nightsong infiltrators, 2 Nightsong enforcers, tour warmage and healer. À super effective squad of sneaky soldiers.

[Firechanter]

I've created a whole setting for a military campaign, a classical Epic Good vs Evil affair actually.

However, I shoot for parties around T3, so those classes you mention would be altogether too weak.
I recommend to my players classes like Warblade, Crusie, Bard, Swift Hunter (with Druid pet) etc, and at most a not-overly-optimized Cleric (for the lack of a proper T3 Divine caster class). Though Pally would also be possible if the player _really_ knows that s/he's doing.

Yeah anyway: at the beginning of the campaign, the PCs are assigned to a special unit that is attached to a regular regiment / battlegroup, and grouped together in one team. As simple as that. Saves you the hassle of getting the group together and starting your game in a tavern. Their superiors give them special missions and may suggest a course of action, but the PCs have enough liberty to come up with a plan of their own.

As they gain levels, they also climb in rank, which entitles them to better equipment -- so you get cash-less WBL. And if the players are interested in that kind of thing, you can give them a unit of NPCs to command in field battles etc.

What else. Ah yes, I also try to make the composition and structure of the units coherent with the proliferation of magic. So, positively NO level 1 Warriors that would already succumb to an angry housecat, and perish by scores to a single stupid Fireball. Soldiers have PC classes* and are trained at least to level 3, equipped with NPC-level wealth. They operate in companies of about 100 soldiers each, with several companies of different specializations (Heavy Infantry, Archers etc) forming a Battlegroup of about 5-600. Some spellcasters are attached to a Battlegroup, as well as a small number of the aforementioned special forces / "SEAL teams". For large-scale battles, a number of battlegroups can be merged into a Legion (or division).


*) However, careful with the assignment of said PC classes... a battle line of Crusaders with Iron Guard Glare spamming Crusader's Strikes is virtually indestructible; _leagues_ beyond what a line of Fighters can do.

[Slipperychicken]

So, positively NO level 1 Warriors that would already succumb to an angry housecat, and perish by scores to a single stupid Fireball.

Those guys are still useful as cannon-fodder, support, and generally filling out the ranks when you don't have the resources to optimize every soldier into an unstoppable Spartan. They also help if you can get enemies to waste their precious spells, arrows, and actions on mobs of weaklings (remember these guys cost ~1sp per day before equipment) while the professional soldiers do all the killing.


The level 1 mooks can certainly contribute by equipping ranged weapons (even the humble sling can be a useful tool for an army on a budget), and unloading on enemies. DFI Bards act as a huge force multiplier if you have access to them. Stack up enough attack/damage bonuses, and even a mob of barely-trained peasants can be a deadly force.

[Guyver87]

Wow, when I was away, a lot happened here...


One of my favorite inspirations for running a D&D military campaign, is the old Exo Squad cartoon series. They were a small unit, who were assigned to various critical missions that had impacts on the greater war effort. They didn't single handedly fight off armies, and they were only a small part of greater battles, but what they did mattered to the greater conflict.

When I think about it, that kinda fits our general idea for the campaign. Only we have one J.T. Marsh-like character, and eight PC's behaving like Wolf Bronsky... In, and Out of Character.

And now, You forced me to re-watch this awesome series yet again. Why, why they had not released both seasons on DVD?


I will contend, however, that Crusaders need not be focused on religion. One could, for example, have a Crusader who draws strength from unflinching devotion to his country's ideals (Captain America comes to mind as an example character), or even love for his country regardless of its ideals or lack thereof (saying things like "Oceania is the greatest country! Big Brother has given to me the duty of defending the state against our eternal enemy, Eastasia, and I would sooner die than disgrace them! Glory to Oceania!").

Fair point, and I have to agree with this reasoning. It just do not fit with the way, we included Crusaders into game. In "our" Faerûn, they are presented as a special kind of Paladins, who use power granted by their gods, to give themselves superhuman powers, instead of gaining magic abilities.

But if we changed their fluff once, we can always do it again...

BTW. Your idea for Crusader from 1984 universe reminded me about Captain Airstrip-One (http://glycon.livejournal.com/18354.html) created by Alan Moore. He's probably something that would fit such role.


However, I shoot for parties around T3, so those classes you mention would be altogether too weak.

I recommend to my players classes like Warblade, Crusie, Bard, Swift Hunter (with Druid pet) etc, and at most a not-overly-optimized Cleric (for the lack of a proper T3 Divine caster class). Though Pally would also be possible if the player _really_ knows that s/he's doing.

You, are probably right, and our little team would be quite weak, but the campaign is tailored specifically for such low-tier characters.

For example during the first adventure they would fight mostly Orcs, and Goblins, who raided several villages and slaughtered the peasants. PC's are sent to deal with the problem, cause the unrest in rural areas caused food shortages.

They would stand against stronger characters only after finding out, that Orcs where "framed", by a amoral nobleman, who uses fake Orc attacks, as a cover for his slave trade business.

As for Paladin, we do have a character like that in our regular party.

Using the Paladin/Grey Guard/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator with specific Feat Combination, we got a guy who gets astronomical damage using Smite Evil/Chaos. Red Dragon Cleric we fought with three levels ago lasted one round against him...

And yet again thanks to all of You who took time, to help me, with the campaign.