OOTS #927 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh great, Villainous Breakdown Tarquin, here we come.

Also, you gave Durkon the wrong color speech bubble.

[SaintRidley]

Tarquin's pissed.

[Dumbledore lives]

This should be great. I can't wait to see Tarquin break down.

[KenkakuKnight]

{Scrubbed}

[Brance_a_Lot]

I'm participating! :elan:

[Shadic]

Oh man. He's mad.

[Porthos]

You know, I don't think we've ever seen Tarquin pissed off before. :smallconfused:

****'s gonna get real now! :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

[RustyVenture]

:elan: I helped!

Tarquin is pissed now. This is going to be quite literally epic!

I just realized he's pissed because of Elan asking Roy "what's next", when Tarquin should be happy Elan actually played a very important role in combat!

[Sabeki]

Welp, I think Tarquins time is up. His emotions have surpassed his reason. Bye bye, Tarq.

[Landis963]

Aha. Here we see Tarquin starting to realize that if Elan isn't the hero that he wants him to be, it would be useless. It'd be like drinking up all the "Father vs. Son" bordeaux and finding only "random peasant schmuck" boxed vintage in the cellar. Of course, the cognitive dissonance could drive him to do any number of things.

[stavro375]

Good news: Dino's gone.

Bad news: Tarquin can kill the entire order by himself anyway.

I'm surprised Laruin didn't just kill Roy outright. Isn't she powerful enough to just melt Roy's brains? Or am I confusing D&D psionics with Spelunky's? Either way I don't see why she had to stop at paralyzing Roy...

[Matt620]

Well, now their both mountless and on relatively equal footing. Miron's pretty beaten up, 80 points of electrical damage is a lot for a caster, but he doesn't look dead (good thing too, that would be as anti-climatic as Z's death)

[doctor23]

Unhappy Tarquin can't be a good thing

[Frosty]

Wow, Laruins biffed THAT easy of a concentration check? :smalltongue:

[Shale]

Nicely done, Elan. Right in the crappy, barely-sapient Will save!

[Xesirin]

As someone unfamiliar with Prismatic Spray, could someone give a run-down of whom was hit with what?

[WindStruck]

Oh great, Villainous Breakdown Tarquin, here we come.

Also, you gave Durkon the wrong color speech bubble.

When Tarquin ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!!

[Klodin]

I'd think he should be slightly mollified that it was Elan who ended up tipping the scales.

[Porthos]

Tarquin's pissed.


{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}


You know, I don't think we've ever seen Tarquin pissed off before. :smallconfused:

****'s gonna get real now! :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:


:elan: I helped!

Tarquin is pissed now. This is going to be quite literally epic!

I just realized he's pissed because of Elan asking Roy "what's next", when Tarquin should be happy Elan actually played a very important role in combat!

I think we all know what The Word of the Day is today. :smallcool:

THough I have to say, if Taquin's biggest strength is keeping a calm, cool, collected head, losing his temper like this is very likely going to lead to Tarquin making mistakes that the rest of the Order can capitalize.

What are those mistakes? Beats me. But I strongly suspect that Tarquin's anger is going to be his undoing.

[stavro375]

Well, now their both mountless and on relatively equal footing.
Go read this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html) again. Beating the full-strength order wasn't even a challenge for Tarquin fighting alone, and right now Roy, Belkar, and Durkon are basically out of the fight (unless D's vampire powers give him a new way to contribute).

[Living Oxymoron]

Another spell that requires reflex save and Tarquin goes unharmed? (orange ray, acid damage, reflex half)

Any doubt that he has Evasion?

[Raven777]

Got a feeling Tarquin is going down for real. Ironically, his inability to accept a narrative other than one of his own design is going to be his tragic downfall. Death by stubborn wrong genre savvy, if you will.

[Shadic]

As someone unfamiliar with Prismatic Spray, could someone give a run-down of whom was hit with what?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm

Here ya go.

[Muenster Man]

I first thought that this would be good for Elan and Tarquin: Elan took initiative, thwarted the villain, and saved the day (sort of), thus fulfilling Tarquin's desire for Elan.

But this seems like the sort of disobedience and defeat that Tarquin didn't expect and the one thing he didn't want: humiliation. :smalleek:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

People have been wanting to see the Order fight somewhat efficiently, we'll here you go!

Love that Tarquin is mad. An angry opponent makes mistakes. And making mistakes reduces you from effective evil to just evil. I think Final Boss Tarquin is about to be demoted to sub-boss Tarquin...

[Harbinger]

That was kind of a dumb move to Team Tarquin's part, attacking Roy and turning their backs on the the rest of his high-level adventuring party. Still awesome strip. I liked the prismatic spray. And that look on Tarquin's face is downright scary. If I didn't know better I'd say this is his pre-death breakdown. :smalleek: I... I hope I know better. :smalleek:


As a side note, it's entirely possible that Miron is now unconscious, unless he made his save.


Good news: Dino's gone.

Bad news: Tarquin can kill the entire order by himself anyway.

I'm surprised Laruin didn't just kill Roy outright. Isn't she powerful enough to just melt Roy's brains? Or am I confusing D&D psionics with Spelunky's? Either way I don't see why she had to stop at paralyzing Roy...

Thing is, I don't think he can. Last time they fought, the odds were stacked in T's favor, and once they realized he wasn't Thog they started doing OK against him. And now they have a wizard. Tarquin is a powerful fighter, but he's still just a fighter. I'd say the Order has a decent chance of beating him. Although Laurin is almost certainly still battle worth, and it's entirely possible Miron is, and the Order's chances of beating them are rather lower.

And isn't that exactly what Laurin was doing before V prismatic sprayed her?

[Porthos]

So for the Dino:

7) Sent to another plane.

...

Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing maybe? :smalltongue:

[MesiDoomstalker]

Tarquin. Is. Pissed. This is exciting!

[Golden-Esque]

Wow, Laruins biffed THAT easy of a concentration check? :smalltongue:

The way the dinosaur is moving, that could qualify as "extremely vigorous motion while casting." The DC for that is DC 20 + the Power's level, and if she's augmenting the power, its even higher. Its believable if she rolled poorly; even if she didn't, the violent motion could have moved Roy out of range of whatever power she's using.

That's the other thing; Powers conveniently don't have verbal components, so Laurin isn't required to shout the name of her attack out in a speech bubble: we have no idea what she's using, and therefore have no idea how easy it is to maintain concentration on it. :smallcool:

[Porthos]

For the record:

Prismatic Spray:

1 Red 20 points fire damage (Reflex half)
2 Orange 40 points acid damage (Reflex half)
3 Yellow 80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)
4 Green Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead)
5 Blue Turned to stone (Fortitude negates)
6 Indigo Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)
7 Violet Sent to another plane (Will negates)
8 Struck by two rays; roll twice more, ignoring any “8” results.

[ranagrande]

I'm looking forward to a fighter fight between Roy and Tarquin!

[BungleBee]

Nice Team Effort!!!

[Pokonic]

I suppose we will now, finally, see what sort of class Tarquin's packing levels in.:smalltongue:

[AutomatedTeller]

Well, clearly Tarquin isn't killing the Order. My guess is that V hits him with disintegrate and Laurin decides it's time to skedaddle. What will happen is something completely different than that, of course.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

As someone unfamiliar with Prismatic Spray, could someone give a run-down of whom was hit with what?

Dinosaur was hit with violet (banished to a random plane). Psion-girl was hit with red (low fire damage), Tarqin was hit with orange (acid, but he probably has a ring of evasion and made his save and took no damage), and sorcerer-guy was hit with yellow (very high electricity damage).

[AdmiralCheez]

Looks like this was the final straw. Tarquin's looking like he's about to go all in to finish this one.

[Kymme]

Dis is gunna be gud. :smallbiggrin:

Maybe now we'll get a handle on Tarquin's true powers.

[Da'Shain]

Partially colorblind, here -- which ray did Tarquin get hit by? Looks like green, I think.

EDIT: Nvm, thanks, Thomar.

[DaggerPen]

Ohhhhh dear. Nicely done, though, Elan!

[Harbinger]

Partially colorblind, here -- which ray did Tarquin get hit by? Looks like green, I think.

EDIT: Nvm, thanks, Thomar.

Orange. That's acid.

[The Giant]

Durkon's speech balloon is fixed.

[jedipilot24]

As someone unfamiliar with Prismatic Spray, could someone give a run-down of whom was hit with what?

Laurin just took fire damage (20 if she failed her save, 10 if she made it.)
Miron just took electricity damage (80 if he failed his save, 40 if he made it.)
Tarquin just took acid damage (40 if he failed his save, but judging from the art I'd say he's the only person who made their save so that's only 20, assuming he doesn't have evasion, if he does then no damage.)
The triceratops they were riding just got sent to another (random) plane.
Green is poison, Blue turns to stone, and indigo turns the target insane.

[Aquillion]

I'm amused by the fact that being impaled on a dinosaur's horn probably did negligible damage to Roy. Even on a critical hit it wouldn't amount to that much. (Of course, he was already damaged, and it adds up. But it's still amusing to realize what D&D mechanics mean.)

[oppyu]

For the record:

Prismatic Spray:

1 Red 20 points fire damage (Reflex half)
2 Orange 40 points acid damage (Reflex half)
3 Yellow 80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)
4 Green Poison (Kills; Fortitude partial, take 1d6 points of Con damage instead)
5 Blue Turned to stone (Fortitude negates)
6 Indigo Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)
7 Violet Sent to another plane (Will negates)
8 Struck by two rays; roll twice more, ignoring any “8” results.
80 points on a primary spellcaster? That's bad for the spellcaster right?

[pennzqwu]

The thing I love is how much Rich's art has changed, like with the fire effects. Compare this Prismatic Spray to the one V used against the ABD (still can't figure out how to make bold text, italics, or anything like that :smalltongue:).

EDIT: Also, Tarquin looks rather unhurt, which means that he either took negligible damage, or had a magic item that nullified the ray's effect (which seems to be 40 acid damage, no wimp slap for even a tank)

[Muenster Man]

Hmm, I guess Durkon can't cast X's Might since he prepared it as Thor's Might before turning into a vampire. (I can't remember the spell's actual name)

Edit: Righteous Might, thanks Shale

[Living Oxymoron]

Laurin just took fire damage (20 if she failed her save.)
Miron just took electricity damage (80 if he failed his save.)
Tarquin just took acid damage (40 if he failed his save, but judging from the art I'd say he's the only person who made their save)
The triceratops they were riding just got sent to another (random) plane.
Green is poison, Blue turns to stone, and indigo turns the target insane.

He could have made his save, but he would still take damage, since the save halves the damage. This is probably the third time he does such thing.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Quick thinking, Elan! And then he just has to rub it in for Tarquin :smallbiggrin:

[TaiLiu]

Alas, poor Tarquin. Those last few words had to hurt.

[JosephOrJoe]

80 points on a primary spellcaster? That's bad for the spellcaster right?

Yeah, and he was already damaged. Miron is in trouble.

[Tajuh]

80 points on a primary spellcaster? That's bad for the spellcaster right?

Considering that at level 20 casters have 160 HP before Con, it's a really hefty blow. There is the chance that he could have Resist Electricity to cut 30 damage off that, but we'd still be looking at about 50 hp off 160 in one shot. That's got to hurt, but he's still in the fight.

The question is, does Team Tarquin decide to keep going here? The casters could call it and leave Tarquin to his fate.

[Shale]

Hmm, I guess Durkon can't cast X's Might since he prepared it as Thor's Might before turning into a vampire. (I can't remember the spell's actual name)

It's normally Righteous Might, but yeah, it seems that either preparing it as Thor's Might means it's off-limits to vampires, or it was in his domain slot, and he lost the slot when he lost his old domains.

[Gift Jeraff]

So Miron got hit the hardest. Had a feeling he might be the first to go down--Laurin bought herself a bit of narrative insurance with that favour. Hopefully not too much insurance.

Triceratops to usurp Prince Oozalot of Hidden Valley.

[Psyren]

Woo! Go V! (And oddly competent Elan!)

[toapat]

Triceratops to usurp Prince Oozalot of Hidden Valley.

i think it went to go star in Jurassic Park

[Nimin]

So disintegrate on a triceratops would have a negligible effect because of the beast's girth, but Baleful Polymorph (fort save) on an Allosaurus doesn't? :smallconfused:
Did Myron get extremely lucky or there's something I'm missing?

Edit: I forgot: absolutely lovely to see Tarquin finally loosing his coolness :smallbiggrin:

[orrion]

As someone unfamiliar with Prismatic Spray, could someone give a run-down of whom was hit with what?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm

Tarquin got hit with orange, so acid damage 40, 20 on save.

Laurin got hit with red, so fire damage 20, 10 on save (guessing she failed her save).

Miron got hit with yellow, so electricity damage 80, 40 on save (guessing he made his save)

Triceratops hit with violet, so banished to another plane.

[CrispyCriminal]

Hooray, not being useless saves the day!

[stavro375]

T
Thing is, I don't think he can. Last time they fought, the odds were stacked in T's favor, and once they realized he wasn't Thog they started doing OK against him. And now they have a wizard. Tarquin is a powerful fighter, but he's still just a fighter. I'd say the Order has a decent chance of beating him. Although Laurin is almost certainly still battle worth, and it's entirely possible Miron is, and the Order's chances of beating them are rather lower.

How can the odds be stacked any more against the order right now? Roy's unconcious, Belkar's near death, Durkon's out of spells, and Tarquin's not playing around anymore. V's present now, but so are Laurin and Miron.

We don't know how a protracted fight between Tarquin and the Order would end -- Malack's flame strike interrupted their first fight -- but given that Tarquin was toying with the order in their first fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html) it can't go well for our heroes.

[BlackDragonKing]

On one hand, people are correct to point out Tarquin's about as mad as we've ever seen him, but on the other hand, the forum has predicted "THIS is the turn of events that brings Tarquin down" every strip since some time before Nale got shanked, and none of them have had much bearing on what actually happens. I'm taking this as a bad sign rather than a good one. On one hand, they've got V with them this time, on the other, V is pretty much the only person who can damage Tarquin who hasn't taken an enormous beating in the last few strips and I highly doubt Tarquin survived his ENTIRE career as an adventurer without ever having to defeat a wizard personally...

My personal gut feeling is "dis gun be gud", even if I'm a little surprised how easy Tarquin's getting miffed compared to how practical he's usually been; maybe losing Malack shook him a lot more than we thought. I'm not seeing anything approaching an easy win for the order, though, as if V doesn't save them all they're pretty much exhausted and all quite badly wounded as an extremely pissed off fighter who took them all on before charges in fresh.

[Harbajar]

May I say:

"Dun Dun Dunnnnn!"

and love Laurin's eyes as she 'holds Roy down'.

[Anarion]

I am saddened by the all too brief appearance of Miron Shewdanker, who will probably never be heard from again in this comic, even though he's probably okay.

Other than that, awesome comic, Elan was amazing. Amusingly, he stars by being an assistant. :smallbiggrin:

[Proud Tortoise]

Yes yes yes! Elan ftw!

[Chaotic Queen]

You mad, Tarquin?

[Naomi Li]

Considering that at level 20 casters have 160 HP before Con, it's a really hefty blow. There is the chance that he could have Resist Electricity to cut 30 damage off that, but we'd still be looking at about 50 hp off 160 in one shot. That's got to hurt, but he's still in the fight.

The question is, does Team Tarquin decide to keep going here? The casters could call it and leave Tarquin to his fate.

80 hp is the upper bound for what a 20th level could get. After first level (or possibly even counting first level; don't remember if it's a 3.5 house rule or core rule) you roll the indicated die to determine hit points gained instead of gaining the maximum possible. And with a d4, that averages out to just 2.5 hit points per level before constitution modifiers, which theoretically could be negative.

[Emanick]

So disintegrate on a triceratops would have a negligible effect because of the beast's girth, but Baleful Polymorph (fort save) on an Allosaurus doesn't? :smallconfused:
Did Myron get extremely lucky or there's something I'm missing?

Disintegrate does direct damage, and the triceratops is too large to be taken down by that volume of damage alone, I'm guessing. Baleful Polymorph takes effect regardless of hit points, so it should be a much more effective way to take out a dinosaur.

[Umberhulk]

Is Tarquin about to shank his other kid?!?!

[BroomGuys]

How does each comic manage to have even more of a cliffhanger than the last?! Oh man, oh man, the suspense.

[Zweisteine]

Is Tarquin about to shank his other kid?!?!

I'm betting he throws the knife at Roy, possibly for fatal damage. Maye someone will intercept (Belkar?).

[Emanick]

Side note: Belkar is complimenting Elan for being useful. Not even hardcore, merely useful. Love this subtle character development.

[Nimin]

Disintegrate does direct damage, and the triceratops is too large to be taken down by that volume of damage alone, I'm guessing. Baleful Polymorph takes effect regardless of hit points, so it should be a much more effective way to take out a dinosaur.
Not really. Size only matters when you're disintegrating non-living material, in this case it would be HP's like any other animal, say, the black dragon V already disintegrated in the past, and just as a Triceratops would have "enough girth to pack a bunch of hit points" so would his Fort save.

[SterlingAvenger]

Oh dear. Looks like there's more offing in the immediate future.

[Muenster Man]

I'm betting he throws the knife at Roy, possibly for fatal damage. Maye someone will intercept (Belkar?).

It does deal 1d4+plot damage, so anything is possible.

[Tajuh]

80 hp is the upper bound for what a 20th level could get. After first level (or possibly even counting first level; don't remember if it's a 3.5 house rule or core rule) you roll the indicated die to determine hit points gained instead of gaining the maximum possible. And with a d4, that averages out to just 2.5 hit points per level before constitution modifiers, which theoretically could be negative.
I was listing the ideal scenario, although I will admit I did not account for the Con modifier. In either case, there's going to be a lot of spells thrown around next post if they stay.

[BroomGuys]

That's the other thing; Powers conveniently don't have verbal components, so Laurin isn't required to shout the name of her attack out in a speech bubble: we have no idea what she's using, and therefore have no idea how easy it is to maintain concentration on it. :smallcool:

We wouldn't have this problem if she were more like Yor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html). :smalltongue:

[Drakeburn]

Uh, oh. I think Tarquin is done playing around. :smalleek:

[Orm-Embar]

Oh yeah, it's on! Thanks, Giant!

I love Elan's reaction, and how everyone else's words just heap more coals on Tarquin's head. Even Belkar has something nice to say - but of course it still hurts someone, because that's what Belkar does best. Perfect.

Where did Haley's one arrow go?

They really need Durkon to step in, spells or no spells. Even a high level fighter like Roy has a finite number of hit points to give.

I wonder if we'll ever know where the triceratops ended up...

[TSKaiser]

Considering that at level 20 casters have 160 HP before Con

That is just plain wrong, where are you getting that?

giantitp goes roughly by 3.5 rules. A wizard has a d4 per level. Standard rules says the first die (level 1) is maximized, the rest is rolled on level up. Before con that gives an minimum of 20, maximum of 80, average of ~51-52 hp.

[Edit: nope, sorcerers are also d4. I slipped. Case still stands]

Either way 80 points of damage is a huge deal. Every two points of con he might have above 10 will yield +20 HP to this total, and I highly doubt he has beyond 18 con (with magic) unless he was built as a "meat wizard" or is totally jacked up on magical gear (+6 con belt isn't normally a priority item for the cost).

Average hp wizard with a monstrous 22 con (good starting without int compromise and +6 belt) is looking at ~171 hp. My best guess is that our Miron has a more likely range of 90-130 HP.

[Emanick]

Not really. Size only matters when you're disintegrating non-living material, in this case it would be HP's like any other animal, say, the black dragon V already disintegrated in the past, and just as a Triceratops would have "enough girth to pack a bunch of hit points" so would his Fort save.

That was what I meant, actually - in D&D, being larger generally correlates with having more hit points, which I assume was what V was referencing when s/he referred to the triceratops's "girth."

Obviously Baleful Polymorph, as a Fortitude-based save, is still not the ideal spell to use - but it has at least a chance of immediately eliminating the behemoth as a threat, as we saw, which makes it a somewhat better choice than Disintegrate. (The latter maxes out at 180 damage, making it totally incapable of one-shotting the average triceratops, which has 196 hit points. This one was already damaged, but it's still a huge long shot.)

[Ramien]

Okay, so a few thoughts:

Tarquin appeared to take no damage. Evasion or protection from acid?
Is there now a confused triceratops rampaging around the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing?
Tarquin's mad. Really mad.
Elan, Haley, and V are fairly combat-ready still, although it's hard to say how many high-level spells V has left


Loved the update!

[Tajuh]

That is just plain wrong, where are you getting that?

giantitp goes roughly by 3.5 rules. A wizard has a d4 per level. Standard rules says the first die (level 1) is maximized, the rest is rolled on level up. Before con that gives an minimum of 20, maximum of 80, average of ~51-52 hp.

Odds gets a little better if he is a sorcerer as they use d6's, but then we are still looking at 20 minimum 120 maximum before con, with an average of ~72-73 HP.

Either way 80 points of damage is a huge deal. Every two points of con he might have above 10 will yield +20 HP to this total, and I highly doubt he has beyond 18 con (with magic) unless he was built as a "meat wizard" or is totally jacked up on magical gear (+6 con belt isn't normally a priority item for the cost).

Average hp wizard with a monstrous 22 con (good starting without int compromise and +6 belt) is looking at ~171 hp. My best guess is that our Miron has a more likely range of 90-130 HP.

My bad, I was thinking D8 HP in an ideal scenario. Thanks for correcting me, and this might give more of a reason for that wizard to leave.

Again, thanks for the correction.

[Clyner]

Wow, when Roy got hit i actually jumped :smalleek: moments like that are why I love this comic!
...is Belkar taunting Tarquin in that second-to-last panel?

[Breccia]

He participated!

Variable-speed corn muffins for all!

[Forikroder]

Okay, so a few thoughts:

Tarquin appeared to take no damage. Evasion or protection from acid?
Is there now a confused triceratops rampaging around the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing?
Tarquin's mad. Really mad.
Elan, Haley, and V are fairly combat-ready still, although it's hard to say how many high-level spells V has left


Loved the update!
there situation isnt that much better right now, they managed to avoid Tarquin completing the coup but there still against 2 high level casters

i really feel like Tarquins about to charge in though and its finally Elans time to shine

[pendell]

*Rapidly scans comic*

No Xs in any eyes. Okay then. Ready for next strip!

:smalltongue:

This reminds me of the old WWF matches where first one guy beats on the other, seemingly helpless, then there's a turn of events and the OTHER guy beats on the first guy. Then they switch back and forth before the bout finally ends.


On a more serious note, good move on Elan's part! As for Vaarsuvius, let me see if I figure out what happened with that prismatic spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm)

Miron: Hit by yellow. 80 points electricity damage, possibly saved to 40.
This may be enough to take him out if he got the full hit, but seems unlikely.

Laurin: Hit by red, 20 points fire damage. Almost certainly still in action.

Tarqin: Appears to have completely evaded. He seems to have specialized in defense and has saves out the wazoo.

Dino: Hit by violet, plane shifted on will save failure.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Porthos]

The way the dinosaur is moving, that could qualify as "extremely vigorous motion while casting." The DC for that is DC 20 + the Power's level, and if she's augmenting the power, its even higher. Its believable if she rolled poorly; even if she didn't, the violent motion could have moved Roy out of range of whatever power she's using.

That's the other thing; Powers conveniently don't have verbal components, so Laurin isn't required to shout the name of her attack out in a speech bubble: we have no idea what she's using, and therefore have no idea how easy it is to maintain concentration on it. :smallcool:

Gotta pretty good candidate already for the power she's using. :smalltongue:

Telekinetic Maneuver (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticManeuver.htm), a fourth level power.

Laurin is using it to pin Roy. Pretty much fits perfectly, IMO.

[Burk]

I was listing the ideal scenario, although I will admit I did not account for the Con modifier. In either case, there's going to be a lot of spells thrown around next post if they stay.

Except the ideal scenario of rolling max hit points every level would give a base 80hp before Con. Using average hp rules, he would have only a base of 51hp. With max hp, he would need a +4 Con mod to have 160hp, and that's a lot of Con for a caster. I'm thinking Miron's not going to be around much longer, though I don't see x's for eyes yet.

[A Weeping Angel]

Great strip. I am thinking Tarquin is going to go after Roy with Elan either inadvertently or deliberately getting in the way to cause some sort of resolution, at least temporarily.

[ti'esar]

Ironically, the first strip in a few not to feature a :smalleek: smiley is the first one to really leave me with that expression. Tarquin looks angrier than we've ever seen him before.

In other news, Miron continues to be notably irrelevant, and I'm left wondering where the triceratops is now.

[Tajuh]

Except the ideal scenario of rolling max hit points every level would give a base 80hp before Con. Using average hp rules, he would have only a base of 51hp. With max hp, he would need a +4 Con mod to have 160hp, and that's a lot of Con for a caster. I'm thinking Miron's not going to be around much longer, though I don't see x's for eyes yet.

I'll toss it out again: I goofed. I was thinking d8 HP ideal instead of the actual caster HP, and you do bring up the good point of Miron not being in the fight for much longer. I wouldn't be surprised if he cuts his losses and leaves at this point, what with V still having a decent amount of spells available.

[TheBST]

Tarquin's cage has been well and truely rattled. Whatever happens next, today's a good day.

So... throwing some wild guesses then:
So... Tarquin goes for Roy, Belkar takes the hit, dies. Tarquin monologues and Durkon unceremoniously snaps the dude's neck mid-sentence.

[David Argall]

Next week is going to be very bad for the party.

[Sikon]

So disintegrate on a triceratops would have a negligible effect because of the beast's girth, but Baleful Polymorph (fort save) on an Allosaurus doesn't?

Disintegrate is a direct damage spell, so a target with tons of HP wouldn't be oneshot by it. We've seen Roy shrug off Redcloak's Disintegrate.

Baleful Polymorph only needs to overcome the target's Fortitude save, and then the target is temporarily out of fight regardless of HP.

[cavalier973]

So, if Durkon bites Roy and turns him into a thrall, can they both use the staff for protection from the sun?

Would that give Roy a bonus to anything (hit points, etc.)?

[Kornaki]

My bad, I was thinking D8 HP in an ideal scenario. Thanks for correcting me, and this might give more of a reason for that wizard to leave.

Again, thanks for the correction.

You're in the clear because Miron can still be a druid.

cavalier, we know Miron can greater dispel magic so it's probably not a great idea. He would get fast healing which is good, and some damage reduction, but probably lose hit points since his constitution score would go to zero. Also they would have to spend like a minute draining Roy so by that point Tarquin has probably killed everyone else already.

[Oko and Qailee]

Yes! Way to go Elan and V!

Dude, love Belkars "nice assist"

[cavalier973]

You're in the clear because Miron can still be a druid.

cavalier, we know Miron can greater dispel magic so it's probably not a great idea. He would get fast healing which is good, and some damage reduction, but probably lose hit points since his constitution score would go to zero. Also they would have to spend like a minute draining Roy so by that point Tarquin has probably killed everyone else already.

So...turn Miron into a thrall? Turn them all into thralls, and deny them the use of the staff?

Again, I'm not versed in the rules, but if Durkon bites someone, it heals him, right? He could snatch up Miron, and use him as a healing potion while he tanked Tarquin. Maybe?

[Ramien]

You're in the clear because Miron can still be a druid.

cavalier, we know Miron can greater dispel magic so it's probably not a great idea. He would get fast healing which is good, and some damage reduction, but probably lose hit points since his constitution score would go to zero. Also they would have to spend like a minute draining Roy so by that point Tarquin has probably killed everyone else already.

If he's a druid, you'd think he would have healed some of his wounds by now.

Although the fact that he baleful polymorphed the Allosaurus instead of trying to kill it may be a point in his favor in that regard.

[Warren Dew]

My personal gut feeling is "dis gun be gud", even if I'm a little surprised how easy Tarquin's getting miffed compared to how practical he's usually been; maybe losing Malack shook him a lot more than we thought.
Maybe he's upset at how much more difficult the order is to beat when Vaarsuvius - even just Undarth Vaarsuvius - is around.

More likely, though, it's his reaction to hearing the contents of the speech balloon in the frame: "what now, Roy?" from his son.

[Khiron]

Oh wow, this is getting so suspenseful!

Great comic! Awesome art, funny dialogue, advanced the story well, epic cliffhanger -- what more could you ask for?

[Quarion Nailo]

80 hp is the upper bound for what a 20th level could get. After first level (or possibly even counting first level; don't remember if it's a 3.5 house rule or core rule) you roll the indicated die to determine hit points gained instead of gaining the maximum possible. And with a d4, that averages out to just 2.5 hit points per level before constitution modifiers, which theoretically could be negative.

Correction: You can't actually get negative hp per level. The minimum amount you gain per level is 1. There are basically 2 ways to calculate hp past first level (for PCs): either you roll your HD every level, or you take the average (which, for a d4, is 2 hp on even levels and 3 hp on odd levels, which averages out to 2.5/level). PCs (and important NPCs) get max hit points on 1st level; run-of-the-mill NPCs have their 1st level hps averaged (or rolled) like the rest.

Also, one important factor that people have failed to note in the Tarquin v. Order fight is that Tarquin doesn't have his axe. Roy with +5 starmetal greatsword vs. Tarquin with Dagger of Plot Device? Can't honestly say which way it'll go, but it could be either.

[Oko and Qailee]

Also, I feel so bad for Roy right now.

Life is just not being nice to him. Random disintigrate by Redcloak, then the sand elemental starts beating him, now hes the target of two casters and a very grumpy warlord.

[nonamearisto]

Yeah, taste the rainbow!

I'm not sure why a disintegrate spell will work against a young adult black dragon but not a triceratops. Whatever. Anyway, the triceratops is in another plane right now, and the other two casters seem to be damaged, but not totally down. Hopefully Elan still has a healing spell or two for Roy, who can apparently survive impalement now.

[Composer99]

Boy do I feel sorry for the poor dinosaur: zapped by the purple ray and cast into another plane of existence to fend for itself.:smallfrown:

On the other hand, it would have made things a whole lot easier for the Order if either Laurin or Miron had been hit by it instead - or perhaps hit by the Blue spray - turned to stone on a weak save for casters (Fortitude).

[Olinser]

So, if Durkon bites Roy and turns him into a thrall, can they both use the staff for protection from the sun?

Would that give Roy a bonus to anything (hit points, etc.)?

Being a vampire would give him D12's, which would be a small increase in HP, but he does not receive a bonus to CON (and actually technically doesn't HAVE a CON score - and thus no bonuses, so Roy might conceivably LOSE HP, depending on how it is interpreted).

With regards to Protection from Daylight.. only if Durkon can figure out how to actually use the staff.

Any item with multiple spells in it has to have someway to differentiate between which one needs to be cast. Malack very probably has command words - probably his little speech about 'Arise and drink the blood of the living!' and Durkon couldn't hear that, for obvious reasons.

He may have heard how Malack used Protection from Daylight, but keep in mind that it is an item, and has a finite number of charges in it. 2 vampires depletes it twice as fast.

[Naomi Li]

Correction: You can't actually get negative hp per level. The minimum amount you gain per level is 1. There are basically 2 ways to calculate hp past first level (for PCs): either you roll your HD every level, or you take the average (which, for a d4, is 2 hp on even levels and 3 hp on odd levels, which averages out to 2.5/level). PCs (and important NPCs) get max hit points on 1st level; run-of-the-mill NPCs have their 1st level hps averaged (or rolled) like the rest.

Also, one important factor that people have failed to note in the Tarquin v. Order fight is that Tarquin doesn't have his axe. Roy with +5 starmetal greatsword vs. Tarquin with Dagger of Plot Device? Can't honestly say which way it'll go, but it could be either.

I apologize for being unclear. I meant that the constitution modifier could be negative, which would decrease the total hit points gained. (-.75/level for the first one, -.5 hit points/level for the next step down, -.25 hp/level for the third one, and then no change for any further steps down, assuming the hp are rolled instead of averaged. If averaged, -1 for first step down, -.5 for next one, then no further effects)

[Lheticus]

Rut-roes...why do I get the feeling that Tarquin's about to Get Dangerous? The fecal matter seems about to hit the electrically powered rotation device harder than ever before...and given this is Order of the Stick I'm talking about, that is SAYING something.

[maxon]

Boy do I feel sorry for the poor dinosaur: zapped by the purple ray and cast into another plane of existence to fend for itself.:smallfrown:
If you ask me, it seems well enough equipped with those horns and the charge to take care of itself.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I'm not sure why a disintegrate spell will work against a young adult black dragon but not a triceratops.

In neither case could one disintegrate stop them.

[Oko and Qailee]

My guess:

Tarquin angrily charges Roy as Elan begins his bard song, Roy gets a lucky crit and one shots Tarquin.

[runeghost]

Okay, so a few thoughts:

Tarquin appeared to take no damage. Evasion or protection from acid?


Loved the update!

I thought the same at first, but..


He had his helmet on, so we couldn't see any possible "hurt-face".
His helmet is gone in the last panel. Maybe it got acid-destroyed?

The upshot is, I think it's at least possible he took some damage from the most excellent Prismatic Spray. OTOH, he does kinda look like he's doing Haley's "Evasion thing" move, so idk. :smallconfused:

[Porthos]

So, if Durkon bites Roy and turns him into a thrall, can they both use the staff for protection from the sun?

Would that give Roy a bonus to anything (hit points, etc.)?

First off, Durkon would have to KILL Roy. By CON draining him (otherwise known as sucking all of his blood).

Second off, he would then have to figure out the spell that Malack had in his staff that allowed Durkon to be brought back as an undead 1d4 days early.

Third off, then he would have to figure out how to get the spell Protection from, Daylight out of the staff and use it in the one round he has availaible before Roy explodes into ash.

All of the above would take a wee little bit of time, even if Durkon wanted to do it and Roy (for some unknown reason) would allow it. :smalltongue:

[Sikon]

My personal gut feeling is "dis gun be gud", even if I'm a little surprised how easy Tarquin's getting miffed compared to how practical he's usually been; maybe losing Malack shook him a lot more than we thought.

Not only did he lose Malack, but his plans have been trashed this whole day. He was denied the chance to study or secure the Gate, both his sons played against the script he's been preparing for them his entire life, then what was to be a dramatic execution for Roy turned into a heavy beating for his army. Then his allies almost refused to help, he had to fail his trump card against Miron and basically beg Laurin for a favor.

As his plans are falling apart, he's only digging himself deeper with every further step.

[Joe the Rat]

That is the angriest we've ever seen Tarquin. Like, Nale being upstaged angry.
Frustrated, disappointed, disturbed, but not angry. I think Poppa T's about to lose his ****.

I Just hope the Trike ended up somewhere pleasant. But having him (or is it her? I'm not up on my saurology) show up at IFCC headquarters... now that would be hilarious.

[Apricot]

Well, now I fully expect Tarquin to be dead within a dozen strips. That's not a good look he has going. If you lose enough control to show full, genuine anger, how do you expect to play your manipulator role properly?

And hey, I just noticed why he wears a face-covering helmet. I mean, aside from the grand reveals. He's using the helmet to shield his face like he uses his face to shield his emotions.

[Anon Vulture]

Oh Elan, you know exactly what not to say.

-Tarquin saw Elan was on the sidelines when Roy was in the lead in the "Thog" fight
-Tarquin didn't see Elan at all when Roy was in the lead in the ambush

-Tarquin sees Elan use one of his abilities effectively when Roy is incapacitated and unable to lead; he broke a concentration check and complimented V's Prismatic Spray quite nicely with no collateral damage

Tarquin conclusion: Elan is *really* being held back by Roy. If he wasn't sure before he's probably sure now.

Elan then says: What now, Roy?

Tarquin: :smallfurious:

*edit* Not to say that Tarquin doesn't have other reasons to be pissed but I think this is the primary one

[cavalier973]

First off, Durkon would have to KILL Roy. By CON draining him (otherwise known as sucking all of his blood).

Second off, he would then have to figure out the spell that Malack had in his staff that allowed Durkon to be brought back as an undead 1d4 days early.

Third off, then he would have to figure out how to get the spell Protection from, Daylight out of the staff and use it in the one round he has availaible before Roy explodes into ash.

All of the above would take a wee little bit of time, even if Durkon wanted to do it. :smalltongue:

Well, I was assuming that Roy is about to be close to death anyway. As for your second and third points, Durkon does have V to help with figuring out the staff. The time factor could be handled by Haley, Elan, and Belkar causing distractions. Just a thought...

[ICN]

We don't know how a protracted fight between Tarquin and the Order would end -- Malack's flame strike interrupted their first fight -- but given that Tarquin was toying with the order in their first fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html) it can't go well for our heroes.

Keep in mind that Tarquin has lost his fancy axe since then, which, judging by 408 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), is a pretty significant penalty. Granted, I'm not that familiar with DnD, so if that's actually a pretty minor setback at epic levels someone feel free to correct me.

[Knight.Anon]

Durkon do something! If you can't cast spells do something else ya Lawful Evil stick in the sand.

I wonder if Miron has a contingency set up. I also wonder if he's some kind of spell thief.

I wonder if if Tarquin is poisoned, just getting poisoned in the heel still counts.

[Tsriel]

*gets the popcorn ready*

[ella ventic]

Love that Roy's habit of falling off of large animals continues unabated. Hopefully the fact that he's done it twice in as many comics means that he's gotten the urge out of his system for the time being...?

[Clyner]

I find it incredibly funny that Tarquin's monologue may have saved Roy's life :smallbiggrin:

[137beth]

That is a new contender for my favorite next-to-last-panel line ever. And one of the best.

[Forikroder]

Love that Roy's habit of falling off of large animals continues unabated. Hopefully the fact that he's done it twice in as many comics means that he's gotten the urge out of his system for the time being...?

theres not many large animals nearby so he should be able to remain in control of his elevation for the time being

[Porthos]

As for your second and third points, Durkon does have V to help with figuring out the staff. The time factor could be handled by Haley, Elan, and Belkar causing distractions. Just a thought...

Not especially. They're far more useful keeping Roy alive. Once he goes down, Tarquin turns his attention to he matter of getting rid of everyone else not named Elan/Haley on the battlefield.

Plus there's the minor point I edited in about Roy not being pleased with the prosepct of being turned into an abomination of all that is just and proper. :smallwink:

Finally, let's say Roy does die here. The very next panel would be something like:

<<Laurin>>: Psionic Disintegrate. Windy Canyon.

Bye bye Roy for the rest of the story. :smallamused:

[Ramien]

I thought the same at first, but..


He had his helmet on, so we couldn't see any possible "hurt-face".
His helmet is gone in the last panel. Maybe it got acid-destroyed?

The upshot is, I think it's at least possible he took some damage from the most excellent Prismatic Spray. OTOH, he does kinda look like he's doing Haley's "Evasion thing" move, so idk. :smallconfused:

We don't see any other damage appearing anywhere else on his body, nor do we see any secondary effects like what appears around Miron and Laurin when they take damage.

[orrion]

Well, I was assuming that Roy is about to be close to death anyway. As for your second and third points, Durkon does have V to help with figuring out the staff. The time factor could be handled by Haley, Elan, and Belkar causing distractions. Just a thought...

Roy goes Vampire, so now the blood oath falls to Julia.

Roy kills Julia to spite his father.

Eugene is now stuck on the fluffy white clouds forever.

Win.

[cavalier973]

Maybe Tarquin's right, and it's time that Elan took charge for awhile. He just demonstrated the capacity to quickly evaluate a dangerous situation, and determine the best possible solution that could be practically implemented.

[Composer99]

Yeah, taste the rainbow!

I'm not sure why a disintegrate spell will work against a young adult black dragon but not a triceratops. Whatever. Anyway, the triceratops is in another plane right now, and the other two casters seem to be damaged, but not totally down. Hopefully Elan still has a healing spell or two for Roy, who can apparently survive impalement now. [Emphasis mine.]

The young black dragon took two disintegrates (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html).

If its hit points were straight out of the book, the black dragon couldn't take two disintegrates, even if it made the save against one of them.

[karkus]

Damn! So was Miron just wasted right on the spot by the violet beam??

EDIT: My bad. That was the dinosaur :smallredface:

[Peelee]

I have a very weird form of colorblindness, so forgive me if the exact color is off or if it's a really subtle difference that my eyes are just amplifying way out of proportion here, but why are Belkar's clothes suddenly blue?

[Emanick]

I have a very weird form of colorblindness, so forgive me if the exact color is off or if it's a really subtle difference that my eyes are just amplifying way out of proportion here, but why are Belkar's clothes suddenly blue?

They're their normal green. It's just you, I'm afraid. (Although now I'm curious to see what Belkar would look like in blue... hmm...)

[Charmy]

Anyone else wishing that Tarquin's crew played this a little more intelligently? They are focusing all their actions on attacking Roy first. While its true that he is their target, they have spent the last few strips exhausting resources and being pwned by foolishly attacking the least threatening member of the entire group next to Belkar!

By *far* the most dangerous member of the OoTS in these rounds has been V, and any experienced adventure would instantly know that, yet they have given him free reign to severely injure and cripple them. All of L & M's spells should have been directed at V first..

Bah. I guess I don't like seeing 3 probably epic-level characters handle this so poorly. To have made it this far they should be better than this.

[orrion]

Damn! So was Miron just wasted right on the spot by the violet beam??

Uh, no, Miron was hit by the yellow beam. The triceratops was hit by the violet beam.

You may want to look again.

[Composer99]

Keep in mind that Tarquin has lost his fancy axe since then, which, judging by 408 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), is a pretty significant penalty. Granted, I'm not that familiar with DnD, so if that's actually a pretty minor setback at epic levels someone feel free to correct me.

If Tarquin has full attack progression and a high Strength score, it should not be a significant setback for him with respect to landing hits on anyone in the Order.

Now, unless his dagger has a significant enhancement bonus it will do sucky damage compared to the axe, especially if his build is centred around using the axe. What is more, he couldn't use Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) with the dagger:


You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks)

[Obscure Blade]

I Just hope the Trike ended up somewhere pleasant. But having him (or is it her? I'm not up on my saurology) show up at IFCC headquarters... now that would be hilarious.I was thinking much the same myself. One of the IFCC guys shows up riding the triceratops:


IFCC Fiend: "Hey guys! Look what I found!"

Other IFCC Fiend: "The elf was right. No one can resist a dinosaur ride."

[Porthos]

Maybe Tarquin's right, and it's time that Elan took charge for awhile. He just demonstrated the capacity to quickly evaluate a dangerous situation, and determine the best possible solution that could be practically implemented.

Remember what happened the last time Elan 'took charge' for a while? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0598.html) :smallwink:

Elan (and in fact all of the gang) is capable of coming up with a good plan. Elan is also capable coming up with good ideas on the spot, just like anyone else in the Order.

But it is pretty much the opinion of the team that they'll fall apart without Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html). Or at the very least that's Belkar's opinion.

And I don't know about you, but I think there's a whole book's worth of supporting evidence to back him up on that at least a little. (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/DontSplitTheParty.shtml) :smalltongue:

Each memeber of the Order brings something to the table. One of the things Roy brings is: Leadership

The Order may not be doomed without him. But I rather suspect they'll be a wee bit worse off than they would be. :smallwink:

[Evandar]

I find it incredibly funny that Tarquin's monologue may have saved Roy's life :smallbiggrin:

:haley: : "Relax, speaking is a free action." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html)

[The_Weirdo]

Belkar said "Nice assist, kid" to Elan. That might well drive Tarquin to attack Belkar and kill him.

[Composer99]

Anyone else wishing that Tarquin's crew played this a little more intelligently? They are focusing all their actions on attacking Roy first. While its true that he is their target, they have spent the last few strips exhausting resources and being pwned by foolishly attacking the least threatening member of the entire group next to Belkar!

By *far* the most dangerous member of the OoTS in these rounds has been V, and any experienced adventure would instantly know that, yet they have given him free reign to severely injure and cripple them. All of L & M's spells should have been directed at V first..

Bah. I guess I don't like seeing 3 probably epic-level characters handle this so poorly. To have made it this far they should be better than this.

Possibly, but we can't actually say for sure that they tangled with high-level casters before, whether in their old-time adventuring career or during their time as imperial power-brokers. It's entirely possible that, the elves and Draketooths excepted, the Western Continent - at least the areas Tarquin & Co. have been working in - was devoid of powerful casters other than themselves.

Laurin & Miron should know that high-level casters are dangerous - because they themselves surely are both - but if they (and Tarquin) don't have the hard experience of having to fight a high-level caster on multiple occasions, using heuristic thinking they could easily overlook or underestimate the threat Vaarsuvius poses.

[Knight.Anon]

Windy Canyon: No Country for Old Adventurers. Its the Evil Overlords own fault if they didn't come with their "A" game.

[rs2excelsior]

And, ironically, Elan is now an integral part of the team. Though the look on Tarquin's face is foreboding.

[Leirus]

I wonder, is the hunt for Haley's dad already ongoing? Or would Tarquin dying here and now put a lid on that?

I believe it is in the Order best interest to keep Laurin alive. I think the moment Tarquin dies, she will be happy to reach an agreement, and they still need transport to Kraagor's Gate. Then again, it is not like they can choose at this point.

Also, in a non D&D based comic, I could see Tarquin madly charging against Elan just to be killed by Roy. But here Tarquin would shrug any hit Roy could get... in the same way Roy himself took a dinosaur to the face and survived the experience.

[Aquillion]

If Tarquin has full attack progression and a high Strength score, it should not be a significant setback for him with respect to landing hits on anyone in the Order.

Now, unless his dagger has a significant enhancement bonus it will do sucky damage compared to the axe, especially if his build is centred around using the axe. What is more, he couldn't use Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) with the dagger:
It depends heavily on his build, but most typical fighter-type builds in 3.x D&D rely heavily on Power Attack for damage, especially at high levels.

Of course, OOTS doesn't always follow D&D logic, and we don't know Tarquin's build at all. But if we go by common sense instead of D&D logic, fighting with a tiny dagger instead of a huge axe is an even bigger penalty.

[Crusher]

Man, Tarquin looks MAD.

Whatever comes next won't be pretty, one way or another.

[Porthos]

Possibly, but we can't actually say for sure that they tangled with high-level casters before, whether in their old-time adventuring career or during their time as imperial power-brokers. It's entirely possible that, the elves and Draketooths excepted, the Western Continent - at least the areas Tarquin & Co. have been working in - was devoid of powerful casters other than themselves.

Laurin & Miron should know that high-level casters are dangerous - because they themselves surely are both - but if they (and Tarquin) don't have the hard experience of having to fight a high-level caster on multiple occasions, using heuristic thinking they could easily overlook or underestimate the threat Vaarsuvius poses.

Or they don't consider V a threat. If the primary purpose is to kill Roy first, then deal with the rest later, the tactics they've used make perfect sense.

After all, Laurin can easily bug out if she is actually threatened. She should be able to take Miron (and Tarquin) with her.

To those two characters, V is an annoyance. One to be dealt with later after the primary target (Roy) is dealt with.

'sides if Laurin and Miron put the use of their fully armed and operational battlestation spellcasting features on V, and then wiped off the rest of the party, the comic would be over.

And I doubt many of us want that. :smallwink: But, thankfully, there is proper enough motivation for the characters to be acting in the way they are:

The two spellslingers don't care enough about the rest of the Order (right now) to do much more than swat at them as if they were annoying flies.

...

This may or may not change now that the stakes have (potentially) gotten a bit higher. :smalltongue:

[Arcas Corricol]

Leaders lead, unless your Elan :elan: the bard who stays back and plays the support role very well (in contrast to before)

[Knight.Anon]

Tarquin is angry, I wonder who he is most angry at?

[Aquillion]

Laurin & Miron should know that high-level casters are dangerous - because they themselves surely are both - but if they (and Tarquin) don't have the hard experience of having to fight a high-level caster on multiple occasions, using heuristic thinking they could easily overlook or underestimate the threat Vaarsuvius poses.It's also possible that they simply lack a reliable way to quickly eliminate V. The casters didn't expect this fight, and don't seem to have brought long-range magic (however odd that is -- well, Laurin can't even change her spell selection, but assuming Miron is a wizard he doesn't seem to have prepared spells for fighting another caster). Additionally, Laurin has been busy using Wormhole to keep up and is now probably very low on power points.

V has also probably kept a distance until now (V could have been harassing them more aggressively while they were jumping through wormholes, but did not, probably precisely to avoid presenting them with a target while they were uselessly burning Laurin's PP.)

[Slithy a Kobold]

So, if Durkon bites Roy and turns him into a thrall, can they both use the staff for protection from the sun?

Would that give Roy a bonus to anything (hit points, etc.)?

Durkon has protection from sun casted on himself remember

[ICN]

If Tarquin has full attack progression and a high Strength score, it should not be a significant setback for him with respect to landing hits on anyone in the Order.

Now, unless his dagger has a significant enhancement bonus it will do sucky damage compared to the axe, especially if his build is centred around using the axe. What is more, he couldn't use Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack) with the dagger:

Wow, that was quick. Thanks for clearing that up for me :smallsmile:

[Ramien]

Anyone else wishing that Tarquin's crew played this a little more intelligently? They are focusing all their actions on attacking Roy first. While its true that he is their target, they have spent the last few strips exhausting resources and being pwned by foolishly attacking the least threatening member of the entire group next to Belkar!

By *far* the most dangerous member of the OoTS in these rounds has been V, and any experienced adventure would instantly know that, yet they have given him free reign to severely injure and cripple them. All of L & M's spells should have been directed at V first..

Bah. I guess I don't like seeing 3 probably epic-level characters handle this so poorly. To have made it this far they should be better than this.

We've also already established that none of Tarquin's group seem geared for long-range combat at the moment beyond Laurin's stun that would likely not make it past a wizard's will save. They also may have been out of the general adventuring life for a while; their tactics could simply be rusty after spending so much time working on manipulating behind the scenes or Miron may have had something other than fighting adventurers on his mind when he prepared spells for the day (if he prepares them).

[Valanarch]

I love how angry Tarquin is. This is going to be good. Also, maybe the triceritops was sent to the Celestial Realms. I'm sure that Eric would love a dinosaur ride.

[Dakaran]

Wow. If Roy can survive a stampeding triceratops horn to the chest, these guys may actually have a chance.

[Composer99]

Wow, that was quick. Thanks for clearing that up for me :smallsmile:

'Twas my pleasure.

-------------

Some spoilered speculation:

I wonder if we will see Miron head for the hills next comic: he has taken a boatload of damage, relative to what he reasonably might have as maximum hit points, especially since based on the art he appears to have failed his save against the prismatic spray lightning damage. Can Tarquin, I wonder, expect Miron to fight to the death as a condition of the called-in favour?

I wonder the same about Laurin. While she has clearly not taken as much of a beating as Miron, if anything she has far more to lose if the fight goes badly (unless Miron has immediate family we have not been made aware of - which would only increase his incentive to bail out).

[bguy]

We've also already established that none of Tarquin's group seem geared for long-range combat at the moment beyond Laurin's stun that would likely not make it past a wizard's will save. They also may have been out of the general adventuring life for a while; their tactics could simply be rusty after spending so much time working on manipulating behind the scenes or Miron may have had something other than fighting adventurers on his mind when he prepared spells for the day (if he prepares them).

Laurin has Psionic Disintegrate though which would be effective against V.

[Slithy a Kobold]

I want banjo back soon preferably in this fight

[Charmy]

We've also already established that none of Tarquin's group seem geared for long-range combat at the moment beyond Laurin's stun that would likely not make it past a wizard's will save. They also may have been out of the general adventuring life for a while; their tactics could simply be rusty after spending so much time working on manipulating behind the scenes or Miron may have had something other than fighting adventurers on his mind when he prepared spells for the day (if he prepares them).

You have good points. Perhaps what all this really points to is how ill-advised the attack was in the first place, which I suppose really falls to Tarquin's choices and leadership. Pride is definitely his Achilles' Heel. I hope at this point the casters have a sense of self preservation and GTFO while they still can :p

[zimmerwald1915]

Possibly, but we can't actually say for sure that they tangled with high-level casters before, whether in their old-time adventuring career or during their time as imperial power-brokers. It's entirely possible that, the elves and Draketooths excepted, the Western Continent - at least the areas Tarquin & Co. have been working in - was devoid of powerful casters other than themselves.

Laurin & Miron should know that high-level casters are dangerous - because they themselves surely are both - but if they (and Tarquin) don't have the hard experience of having to fight a high-level caster on multiple occasions, using heuristic thinking they could easily overlook or underestimate the threat Vaarsuvius poses.
Sandsedge is home to a spellcaster (probably a wizard) who can cast Drawmij's instant summons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0678.html), which as a level 7 sorcerer/wizard spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/instantSummons.htm) is higher-level than anything V had cast at Tarquin, Laurin and Miron, or in their presence, up until this strip, and is the same level as prismatic spray.

[eras10]

I have no idea if this is going to turn out to be true, but I don't think Tarquin will pull off anything impressive right now. I think he's going to run in screaming and be felled by... something. What, I don't know. Maybe Elan's Plan From Before.

In my opinion, while he's a great fighter no matter what emotional state he's in, one of T's greatest assets so far has been, more or less, always being on top of events. He's rarely surprised and seems to have always figured out what's going to happen next ahead of time.

But while the "show-up-with-a-legion-and-kill-Roy" deal was clearly pre-planned to some degree, events in the past few strips have clear spun beyond his real control and anticipation. Agree with other commenters that he's not acting cleverly or with care in this strip, and coincidentally, he fails.

I expect more of the same next strip. In a game, he's still powerful enough to mop up everyone who isn't V, but for the pattern of the story, I'm thinking .. Breakdown, not Maevolent Antisuperhero Escalation, or whatever the trope is. I think Tarquin is fundamentally out of cards up his sleeve.

[tigerhawkvok]

Considering that at level 20 casters have 160 HP before Con, it's a really hefty blow. There is the chance that he could have Resist Electricity to cut 30 damage off that, but we'd still be looking at about 50 hp off 160 in one shot. That's got to hurt, but he's still in the fight.

The question is, does Team Tarquin decide to keep going here? The casters could call it and leave Tarquin to his fate.

Huzwah?

Sorcerers and wizards are d4 HD. So, at L20 you'd expect an average of 2.5 HP/level = 20*2.5= 50 HP before con.

With no resistances and full HP, he'd need a con of 14 to average 90 HP. And he's been damaged already.

If he failed his save, he's likely *dead*.

[prism6691]

We don't see any other damage appearing anywhere else on his body, nor do we see any secondary effects like what appears around Miron and Laurin when they take damage.

Yes but I think there is a rule that you can't use evasion in medium/heavy armor. Maybe he has acid resistance because of an item?

[wingnutx]

Damn, that's gotta hurt.

Miron is pretty beat up at this point.

"Nice assist, kid." is the worst thing that Tarquin can possibly hear, imho.

[Gorgon_Heap]

Ths was great! But I felt really bad for laughing at the second panel.

[Knight.Anon]

I loved the impassive expression on the Trike when it speared Roy. Just another day on the job.

[jere7my]

Interesting tidbit: panel 9 contains both of the two most blatant Vancian borrowings in D&D, ioun stones and the Excellent Prismatic Spray.

[otakuryoga]

:elan: Its fun to help out
...NOT HELPING Elan!!

[dmc91356]

It might be me, but Tarquin looks awfully similar to Nale in 913, about 2/3 down the strip. Y'know, shortly before he, um, died.

Just sayin'

:smallcool:

[Knight.Anon]

It would be interesting if Tarquin had a brother.

[DPUNKSTAR]

I don't know why but the thing that stuck out the most for me was Belkar's line. Its just so odd to hear him say "nice assist kid."

[Ramien]

Sandsedge is home to a spellcaster (probably a wizard) who can cast Drawmij's instant summons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0678.html), which as a level 7 sorcerer/wizard spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/instantSummons.htm) is higher-level than anything V had cast at Tarquin, Laurin and Miron, or in their presence, up until this strip, and is the same level as prismatic spray.

Are you sure that caster resided in Sandsedge? He did teleport away, and his teleport had at least a range of 1,300 miles. Given the nature of his mission, I figured he was working for a legal firm in the elven lands, and would likely have lived near there- still on the Western Continent, but not necessarily in the areas Tarquin and Co. were active in.

[Peelee]

They're their normal green. It's just you, I'm afraid. (Although now I'm curious to see what Belkar would look like in blue... hmm...)

Thanks. That happens sometimes... tiny change in color for most people to me is a major shift. I'm just gonna take that as a sign dusk is nearing.

[Benthesquid]

It would be interesting if Tarquin had a brother.

Niuqrat! (Pronounced Nyuck-Rat), the physical comedian, worshiper of the Great God Giggles!

[Living Oxymoron]

Yes but I think there is a rule that you can't use evasion in medium/heavy armor. Maybe he has acid resistance because of an item?

The restriction seems to not apply to the Ring of Evasion.

[zimmerwald1915]

Are you sure that caster resided in Sandsedge? He did teleport away, and his teleport had at least a range of 1,300 miles. Given the nature of his mission, I figured he was working for a legal firm in the elven lands, and would likely have lived near there- still on the Western Continent, but not necessarily in the areas Tarquin and Co. were active in.
Wherever he lives, I am quite sure it is not in the Elven lands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html). "Sealed borders" doesn't necessarily imply "exclude the ethnically impure", but just as individual racist opinions are not something to put past the elves in this comic, neither is the institutionalized version.

[Ramien]

Yes but I think there is a rule that you can't use evasion in medium/heavy armor. Maybe he has acid resistance because of an item?

There are also armor enchantments or materials that make the armor lighter than normal - mithral is the obvious example, if tarquin's armor is normally medium, then it would count as light.

[KoboldRevenge]

Tarquin is pissed now. This is going to be quite literally epic!

I just wanted to say: Awesome name, you gotta get a VB avatar.:smallbiggrin:

Also considering Conservation of Ninjutsu, even if Tarquin's friends leg it, he's gonna give a them hard time going down. Most likely taking one halfling with him. :belkar:

[Cynric]

Oh dear, Tarquin's losing it. It's a shame really; his grandstanding after his introduction was so impressive. It's a shame to see him lose all genre savviness and composure so quickly.

[Jabberwok]

Good news: Dino's gone.

Bad news: Tarquin can kill the entire order by himself anyway.

I'm surprised Laruin didn't just kill Roy outright. Isn't she powerful enough to just melt Roy's brains? Or am I confusing D&D psionics with Spelunky's? Either way I don't see why she had to stop at paralyzing Roy...

I think Tarquin wants to personally deal the blow. That way Elan will have more motivation to comeback and revenge.

[Kislath]

Can this really be the end of Tarquin already?

Nah. My guess is his friends will teleport them all away, which will absolutely infuriate Tarquin beyond all measure. This sets up his untimely return later for the final battle.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I figured he was working for a legal firm in the elven lands, and would likely have lived near there- still on the Western Continent, but not necessarily in the areas Tarquin and Co. were active in.


Wherever he lives, I am quite sure it is not in the Elven lands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html).

Ramien didn't suggest that the wizard lives in the Elven lands.

[zimmerwald1915]

Ramien didn't suggest that the wizard lives in the Elven lands.
Then he can't have it both ways. Either that fellow doesn't live near the elven lands, or he doesn't live where Tarquin's group is active. While their influence may wane south of the Great Barren Desert, which presents a formidable natural barrier, I have a very hard time believing that Tarquin's group doesn't have fingers in pies in all the minor statelets between the Desert and the Goaway Mountains.

[Ramien]

Damn, that's gotta hurt.

Miron is pretty beat up at this point.

"Nice assist, kid." is the worst thing that Tarquin can possibly hear, imho.

Nah, I think that line goes to "What now, Roy?" Belkar was at least admitting Elan was useful. Elan just showed once again that Roy's the leader.


Wherever he lives, I am quite sure it is not in the Elven lands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html). "Sealed borders" doesn't necessarily imply "exclude the ethnically impure", but racism is not something to put past the elves in this comic.

Given the elven treatment of goblins in general, you definitely have a point. However, we've also seen that elven lands are not as extensive as they once were (see the island V teleported the Azurites too) I'll spare the boards from the conspiracy theory level claims that he was really a disguised elf, or that his frog familiar would indicate that he has spent at least some time in non-arid conditions, (or just really doesn't worry about his familiar's comfort) - mostly I just like playing devil's advocate.

[FolcoTook]

:elan: I'm participating contributing.

Elan has always been my favorite character. I love seeing him able to really contribute now.

[Cerlis]

Not really. Size only matters when you're disintegrating non-living material, in this case it would be HP's like any other animal, say, the black dragon V already disintegrated in the past, and just as a Triceratops would have "enough girth to pack a bunch of hit points" so would his Fort save.

yes and as a rule animals size coincides with their Hit dice. That is further why you have really big animals at relatively low CR...because all they got is alot of animal HD , feats and appropriate Size and Str/Con modifiers.

[Sloanzilla]

Were this tactical, and not an actual story, I'd totally have Dwarfy the Vampire Player charge-slam Miron to star-eye his bandana butt and narrow team evil's options.

I love this elimination rumble- just wish I'd taken a break from viewing so I could catch this entire encounter all at once.

[Amphiox]

Perhaps in the next strip, the Giant will subvert expectations once again and Tarquin will not attack. Instead he will go full-ham rage rant, and then Elan will have one of his flashes of temporary brilliance and talk his father down. Because even if Elan were to ever graduate to full hero, he's not an action hero. He's a pure-hearted-idiot-hero-fool-with-maxed-out-charisma, and that type of hero wins his battles with *diplomacy*

[Happy Gravity]

Checklist:
"Belker is going to die next strip"? Got it.
"This is where Tarquin's fall begins"? Got it.

It does seem like things are going downhill for Tarquin, but that's been a trend ever since he decided to head out after the OotS for the Gate. Dig deeper, dig deeper! >8V

[Nxd6+!?]

Question:
Which beam of the Prismatic Spray is going to affect Tarquin; any guesses?
Also, if he gets hit by the poison effect, will that be the deciding factor in a melee between him and Roy?

Just a thought.

[Prowl]

I'm thinking an ioun stone or two would make a fine addition to V's wardrobe.




aside: jeebus. I just looked at my signup date. I've been following this comic for six years already, wow. Not too many things can hold my attention that long. I hereby profusely and sincerely apologize for every "where's my update" complaint I've made in the past.

[JCAll]

I thought for a second Roy was sitting dazed in that next to last panel, but I see that he has his sword that he dropped in Panel 2, so he must just be running in from off screen after retrieving it. So he's not in quite as bad a shape as I first thought. Silly me.

Haley fired an arrow in Panel 3. Does anyone see where it went?

[A Tad Insane]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!
Taq can't die like this!

He needs to eat a meteor swarm from the main villain, who did it just to because he's the main villain, and will promptly be forgotten by the main villain.

:xykon: Right, now that the random old look alike is dead, I'm going to murder you all

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm thinking an ioun stone or two would make a fine addition to V's wardrobe.
According to the Giant, giving V a magic staff would add too much for him to keep track of when drawing while at the same time adding nothing to the story. What makes "an ioun stone or two" different?

[t209]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!
Taq can't die like this!

He needs to eat a meteor swarm from the main villain, who did it just to because he's the main villain, and will promptly be forgotten by the main villain.

:xykon: Right, now that the random old look alike is dead, I'm going to murder you all
And Belkar might die protecting roy or elan.

[Manji]

well, we all know Laurin and Miron are alive, but hurt, they have taken a lightning bolt already, then the prismatic spray, and add maybe a couple HP from the fall, so I think that:

at this point Laurin and Miron will stop their contributing to Tarquin's intentions of killing Roy, and now with triceratops gone, V can cast dispel magic on the allosaurus and keep up the runaway plan

[Rezby]

Just wanna point out tat in the 9th panel (3rd to last, or first on the bottom row), when Tarquin is falling down, we see his chin - compare to any other panel we see with him and his helmet on. That's the helmet falling off, which is why he's helmet-less in the last panel (though Rules As Written, I don't think falling off triceratops (that no longer exists in the realm of material existence) can actually remove any of your equipment? But Order of the Stick has always gone more to the side of drama and plot than strict rules-lawyering, so that's not entirely unexpected).

[ghoul-n]

Looking forward to see Durkon draining all of T's levels and then munchin' his head off.

Also, poor dino :(

[Ramien]

Just wanna point out tat in the 9th panel (3rd to last, or first on the bottom row), when Tarquin is falling down, we see his chin - compare to any other panel we see with him and his helmet on. That's the helmet falling off, which is why he's helmet-less in the last panel (though Rules As Written, I don't think falling off triceratops (that no longer exists in the realm of material existence) can actually remove any of your equipment? But Order of the Stick has always gone more to the side of drama and plot than strict rules-lawyering, so that's not entirely unexpected).

Unless Tarquin's helmet is magic, it's just decoration, not actually equipment.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Now, this is just rubbing it into T's face!

Cool strip yet again, Giant, thanks.:smallsmile:

[ghoul-n]

Btw can't help but love that 'I don't want to live on this planet anymore' look on Roy's face @ panel 7 q.q

[Lordchoculla]

Good news: Dino's gone.

Bad news: Tarquin can kill the entire order by himself anyway.

I'm surprised Laruin didn't just kill Roy outright. Isn't she powerful enough to just melt Roy's brains? Or am I confusing D&D psionics with Spelunky's? Either way I don't see why she had to stop at paralyzing Roy...

Because Tarquin wants it to be Tarquin so as to provide Elan with a revenge motive when Elan as the main hero comes to topple Tarquin later. I guess.

[Living Oxymoron]

Question:
Which beam of the Prismatic Spray is going to affect Tarquin; any guesses?
Also, if he gets hit by the poison effect, will that be the deciding factor in a melee between him and Roy?

Just a thought.

Tarquin was supposed to be hit by the orange light, which causes 40 points of acid damage, but looks like he wasn't hurt at all. This is probably the third time he shows he has Evasion, along with this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html) (Malack's Flame Strike) and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) (V's Lightning Bolt; but I have my doubts on this case).

[dasein]

Just wanna point out tat in the 9th panel (3rd to last, or first on the bottom row), when Tarquin is falling down, we see his chin - compare to any other panel we see with him and his helmet on. That's the helmet falling off, which is why he's helmet-less in the last panel (though Rules As Written, I don't think falling off triceratops (that no longer exists in the realm of material existence) can actually remove any of your equipment? But Order of the Stick has always gone more to the side of drama and plot than strict rules-lawyering, so that's not entirely unexpected).

I'm not certain of this, but I'm fairly certain this is the first time we've seen Tarquin display any emotion besides mild annoyance or mild amusement--even when he was told that Malack (his best friend!) had been (horribly!) killed, he seemed more frustrated with Nale than angry. Hence, the Giant was probably more concerned with building the dramatic tension by giving us insight into Tarquin's state of mind.

[eilandesq]

A few thoughts:

1. Don't expect Tarquin to attack with that dagger. As overprepared as he is in general, he's bound to have a decent secondary weapon of the two-handed variety (probably a two-handed sword, though a less powerful one than Roy's);

2. Laurin is still very dangerous--she took only a light hit from the prismatic spray and has a full suite of powers remaining, including a disintegrate ability that would be very dangerous to V (or anyone in the OotS, including the now-CONless Durkon). She also looks a tad ticked off, and has an investment to protect in the favor that Tarquin owes her;

3. Miron is out of the picture, barring one of the OotS (perhaps Belkar or Durkon) grabbing him and using him as a hostage to force the vertical members of Team Tarquin to withdraw (Tarquin might object, but Laurin would probably overrule him and have the power to enforce it);

4. Kudos to Elan--that might be *the* most efficient use of a first-level spell I've ever seen in any high level D&D style fight, whether in live session or portrayed in media. Even Chaotic Evil Belkar wasn't going to deny him his rightful praise for that choice of tactic (might be a new "Pet The Dog" moment for the OotS TV Tropes page).

5. By implication, V. still has at least one Disintegrate spell left, possibly more. In a full scale fight most efficient usage would be to target Laurin (or Miron, if he should happen to be not quite dead or unconscious). Tarquin probably has enough HP left (and a high enough Fortitude save bonus) to make using it on him as pointless as it would have been on the dinosaur.

6. Most likely result--Team Tarquin is forced to retreat for either some combination of the above circumstances or something we have not seen yet.

[HandofShadows]

Great page. I think Tarquin is starting to loose it and it will cost him. :smallbiggrin:

[Oko and Qailee]

Nah, I think that line goes to "What now, Roy?" Belkar was at least admitting Elan was useful. Elan just showed once again that Roy's the leader.



No joke I can feel the rage in Tarquin. That look on his face, I know its the same as other characters when they're mad, but honestly I don't think I've ever gotten as much of a feeling of pure angry as Tarquin is displaying right now.

[Zhoug]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I was told you might know something about a Triceratops that suddenly materialised in my kitchen today? It won't leave and looks pretty confused.
Thanks.

[ti'esar]

A few thoughts:

6. Most likely result--Team Tarquin is forced to retreat for either some combination of the above circumstances or something we have not seen yet.

I think it's very possible that if/when Miron and Laurin bug out, they won't take Tarquin with them. He's increasingly unstable and his private obsessions have already gotten one member of the team killed - if the fight reaches the point where their lives are in actual danger too (which it possibly already has for Miron), I'm not sure they're going to risk themselves any further to save him.

[zimmerwald1915]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I was told you might know something about a Triceratops that suddenly materialised in my kitchen today? It won't leave and looks pretty confused.
Thanks.
I've got no advice, but this is one of the best introductory posts I've read. You will go far.

[RMS Oceanic]

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I was told you might know something about a Triceratops that suddenly materialised in my kitchen today? It won't leave and looks pretty confused.
Thanks.

Don't worry, that should wear off in about six seconds. :smallbiggrin:

I'm hoping Elan gets to say something like this in the next few comics:

:elan:: You don't get it, Dad. This isn't the story of a bard defeating his Father's Evil Empire...it's an ensemble comedy!

[Amphiox]

It would be funny/interesting if it is revealed later that Tarquin was hit secondarily by the beam that causes insanity....

It occurs to me, with respect to this fight, that while Team Tarquin are higher level, the Order are active adventurers who have been fighting for their lives, constantly and continuously, against equal and stronger enemies, for some time, while TT are retired and may not have been seriously challenged for more than a decade - ie they are rusty.

Also, if it is true that TT does not have long range capability as V surmised then that means V and Haley are both essentially untouchable in this battle so long as that fly spell endures and they are careful to stay at long range. This may be why Laurin and Miron have not targeted V. Even if they recognized the threat she posed, they may simply have not had anything to target V with if V took care to stay out of range. They may have been counting on their higher level defenses to "no sell" V's attacks while they focused on Roy.

[Michaeler]

Tarquin just got humiliated with a level 1 spell.

Does this fall under Xykon's lecture about the nature of power?

[Tev]

I doubt Miron will survive next strip, Haley can finish him in one round . . . what will Laurin do when he bites it? Teleport both away? If she does, simple forcecage completely stops Tarquin and even if he manages to kill Roy in meantime, Durkon can ressurect.

If Laurin won't teleport away and gets pissed, I don't see either V and Roy surviving, maybe Belkar bites it too but Laurin (already damaged) will get killed by all OotS' melee for sure and Tarquin will be owned by Durkon (vamp bonus should be enough) & Haley (sneak attacking from the air) . . . total end for TT and their scheme, D will ressurect V and then go collect more diamonds for the second res, Belkar will be left out because they just won't be able to get THAT much diamond dust.

[merget]

In panel 9, the indigo ray overlaps the violet ray, and ends about where the top of the triceratops's back would have been. Do you suppose the triceratops was struck by both beams? That can happen if the dinosaur rolled an 8; see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm.

Indigo drives the target insane. So maybe, in some random plane of the multiverse, an insane triceratops suddenly appeared.

The inhabitants were probably surprised.

[Red XIV]

How can the odds be stacked any more against the order right now? Roy's unconcious, Belkar's near death, Durkon's out of spells, and Tarquin's not playing around anymore. V's present now, but so are Laurin and Miron.

We don't know how a protracted fight between Tarquin and the Order would end -- Malack's flame strike interrupted their first fight -- but given that Tarquin was toying with the order in their first fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html) it can't go well for our heroes.
Roy's not unconscious (just dizzy and in need of healing; Durkon might not be able to do that right now but Elan can (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)). Durkon's new vampire abilities enhance his strength and durability, so he can fight physically even if he's got no spells available. And Tarquin was better-armed last time he fought the Order.

[eilandesq]

In panel 9, the indigo ray overlaps the violet ray, and ends about where the top of the triceratops's back would have been. Do you suppose the triceratops was struck by both beams? That can happen if the dinosaur rolled an 8; see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm.

Indigo drives the target insane. So maybe, in some random plane of the multiverse, an insane triceratops suddenly appeared.

The inhabitants were probably surprised.

[A crazed triceratops appears in the middle of a one-Starbucks town on the coast of Southern California. A blonde teenaged girl stares at the new arrival and sighs as she turns to her friends]

Buffy: It must be Tuesday. [goes over to deal with the problem].

:smallbiggrin:

[eilandesq]

Roy's not unconscious (just dizzy and in need of healing; Durkon might not be able to do that right now but Elan can (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)). Durkon's new vampire abilities enhance his strength and durability, so he can fight physically even if he's got no spells available. And Tarquin was better-armed last time he fought the Order.

Elan's out of healing spells (since #904). Haley found a bunch of wands on Z's corpse, but unless Z had Use Magical Device skill to let him use a clerical healing wand (unlikely) or took a level in cleric (even more unlikely), none of them are likely to be healing spells.

[Onyavar]

This would be easy.

Roy might have realized that Tarquin is only after him because he is the boss.

So all Roy has to do is hand over leadership to Elan. Maybe say something to the effect of "Elan you're the boss until Tarquin is dead. Be quick about it."

Though, Tarquin is too enraged, and Roy is pretty dizzy. But otherwise, this would be the perfect moment (drama-wise) to hand over control of the party.

[Dracon1us]

I'm partecipating!!!

[Messenger]

Remember what happened the last time Elan 'took charge' for a while? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0598.html) :smallwink:

Elan (and in fact all of the gang) is capable of coming up with a good plan. Elan is also capable coming up with good ideas on the spot, just like anyone else in the Order.

But it is pretty much the opinion of the team that they'll fall apart without Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html). Or at the very least that's Belkar's opinion.

And I don't know about you, but I think there's a whole book's worth of supporting evidence to back him up on that at least a little. (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/DontSplitTheParty.shtml) :smalltongue:

Each memeber of the Order brings something to the table. One of the things Roy brings is: Leadership

The Order may not be doomed without him. But I rather suspect they'll be a wee bit worse off than they would be. :smallwink:Quoting you just because I love what you said, especially your citing of #598. I find it incredibly appropriate to what's happening now, especially panel 6:

:elan:: I'm not a hero... I just play one in a comic strip.

This is simply the glaring difference between Elan and Tarquin as narrative-loving son-and-father and what sets them apart as hero and villain respectively.

[Living Oxymoron]

What's funny is that only now I realized how Elan's last speech balloon (What now, Roy?) is totally related to Tarquin's expression in the final panel.

[factotum]

So all Roy has to do is hand over leadership to Elan. Maybe say something to the effect of "Elan you're the boss until Tarquin is dead. Be quick about it."

Though, Tarquin is too enraged, and Roy is pretty dizzy. But otherwise, this would be the perfect moment (drama-wise) to hand over control of the party.

This has been suggested before, and I don't think Tarquin is stupid enough to fall for a ruse like that. Not to mention that this probably just got personal, given how annoyed T looks in that last panel.

[rodneyAnonymous]

So all Roy has to do is hand over leadership to Elan.

I don't think Tarquin would be satisfied by that. Part of his deal is he wants to be The Villain to Elan's Hero, and killing Roy will solidify that.

[Obscure Blade]

A few thoughts:

1. Don't expect Tarquin to attack with that dagger. As overprepared as he is in general, he's bound to have a decent secondary weapon of the two-handed variety (probably a two-handed sword, though a less powerful one than Roy's)Tarquin picked up a whip back in #863 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html) that I don't think we've seen since; this might be a good time for him to whip it out.

(pun intended)

[RMS Oceanic]

Also I think it would be appropriate if we had a callback courtesy of Tarquin shortly:

"No one denies me, Elan. Not you, not your brother, no one!"

[Bulldog Psion]

Also I think it would be appropriate if we had a callback courtesy of Tarquin shortly:

"No one denies me, Elan. Not you, not your brother, no one!"

Yes, it seems the apple doesn't fall from the tree in some cases.

[RMS Oceanic]

Yes, it seems the apple doesn't fall from the tree in some cases.

I think Tarquin has some of the same base impulses as Nale. However he also has much better patience, impulse control and delay of gratification. As long as he knows he's in control, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. However he's having difficulty exerting his control over this situation, so it's frustrating him.

[Evandar]

Tarquin just got humiliated with a level 1 spell.

Does this fall under Xykon's lecture about the nature of power?

Colour Spray is a level 1 spell. That was a Prismatic Spray which is considerably stronger, being a level 7 spell.

[RMS Oceanic]

Colour Spray is a level 1 spell. That was a Prismatic Spray which is considerably stronger, being a level 7 spell.

I think he's talking about Elan's Lesser Confusion, which is certainly what saved Roy.

[nogall]

Tarquin just got humiliated with a level 1 spell.

Does this fall under Xykon's lecture about the nature of power?

yeah, but now the real power is plot. Plot equals plot.

[zimmerwald1915]

yeah, but now the real power is plot. Plot equals plot.
Und weil der mensch ein mensch ist...

[The Pilgrim]

Wasn't that the dagger soaked with Nale's blood that Tarquin was supposedly hiding in order to ressurect him later? :smalltongue:

Imagine the outcome if he actually stoke Roy with it, then tries to ressurect Nale. :smallbiggrin:

[snikrept]

Now we cut to the seventh layer of Hell where the IFCC are being trampled by an enraged triceratops !

[Sunken Valley]

Aw, green and blue didn't get Team Tarquin.

Also, confirmation that Durkon cannot cast Thor's Might.

I don't think we've ever seen angry Tarquin with Teeth

[Obscure Blade]

Now we cut to the seventh layer of Hell where the IFCC are being trampled by an enraged triceratops !Or riding the triceratops, re-trampling the just arrived souls that were previously trampled by Belkar's Allosaur.

[Werbaer]

Hmm, I guess Durkon can't cast X's Might since he prepared it as Thor's Might before turning into a vampire.


It's normally Righteous Might, but yeah, it seems that either preparing it as Thor's Might means it's off-limits to vampires, or it was in his domain slot, and he lost the slot when he lost his old domains.

Durkon converted a spell slot to a spontaneous lesser heal harm spell in 908 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0908.html), so he might have used up that spell.

[Sunken Valley]

Durkon converted a spell slot to a spontaneous lesser heal harm spell in 908 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0908.html), so he might have used up that spell.

Nope, that was Cure Moderate Wounds, an LV 2 spell. Thor's Might is LV 5.

Also, if V has disintegrate, why was that not used in 896 to get the Orders attention?

[zimmerwald1915]

Nope, that was Cure Moderate Wounds, an LV 2 spell. Thor's Might is LV 5.

Also, if V has disintegrate, why was that not used in 896 to get the Orders attention?
Too much chance of collateral damage, which collateral damage could potentially have included the Gate, V, or any of the rest of the Order.

[Trillium]

Nope, that was Cure Moderate Wounds, an LV 2 spell. Thor's Might is LV 5.

Also, if V has disintegrate, why was that not used in 896 to get the Orders attention?

That dome, which he was bigsby-bashing, was right under the Gate hall. Disintegrating the floor may have caused OotS to drop from big height, (potentially killing Belkster), or damage the Gate, or something else.

EDIT: Swordsaged by Zimmerwald.

[Jimorian]

And now they all dive into the rift!

...

Well, somebody had to keep that prediction streak alive! :smalltongue:

[zimmerwald1915]

Well, somebody had to keep that prediction streak alive! :smalltongue:
No. That is not an obligation incumbent upon anyone.

[Adeptus]

WHOA! Once again Elan comes through when the pressure is on. Perfect spell choice, attacking the beasts Will-save. Economy of force as well, getting a really big effect with a well placed low level spell.

WTG Blondie :)

Also I do believe we just saw Tarquin lose his cool. He's going to wade in, without his helmet, and armed with a dagger. No matter how badass you are, that is not what a careful strategist does.

I think he's now failing to re-assess the situation. Him and his group are higher level, yes, but they are also outnumbered two-to-one, and at a serious tactical disadvantage. It would be time to disengage, not charge in.

[Dwy]

The current arc is so amazing!

Haven't been this excited for what's next since the first time I read the whole part where Xykon started regenerating and Redcloak started stepping up, and their whole angle started getting explored.

[Mauve Shirt]

It's fun being mildly competent!

[Dracon1us]

from a tactical point of view, TT is screwed

2 caster in close range> shish kebab dou jour served raw by a sexy shoeless god of war, his cat and a sexy bicurious sneak attacking rogue

Tarquie is the greatest warrior of his generation, but he is facing the greatest warrior of a younger generation (albeit really hurt) plus a ruthless vampire cleric,
an almost epic spellcaster (and his crow) and a jack of all trades that reaqlly wants to avenge his brothers.

he's royally screwed and his remains will be scattered trough the desert sand...

[Matt620]

Go read this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html) again. Beating the full-strength order wasn't even a challenge for Tarquin fighting alone, and right now Roy, Belkar, and Durkon are basically out of the fight (unless D's vampire powers give him a new way to contribute).

While hypnotic gaze and the ability to assume a gaseous form would be useful, I'll remind you that while Tarquin did all right on his own and Roy ordered a retreat, he didn't actually "win" the battle.

[Quartz]

How many strips is it until dusk?

[Pheldagriff]

Deny! Deny! Deny! Deny the psychopathic egomaniac!

[elros]

Whoa! Elan thinking strategically? Belkar caring what happens to Roy? Talk about character growth!

And am I the only one who is starting to feel bad for Nale? After all, with Tarquin as a father it's no surprise that he turned out so screwed up.

I'm preparing for another quick update- can't let the cliffhanger go on for too long!