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PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 09:22 PM
Hi all, I am new here.

I've been playing with my DM for 4 years now and we have progressed a party of Good characters from lvl 7 (when I jumped in) to 20. All fun and games. While we are building our fortress up in the north, which will take 6 months or so, we are playing a low level evil campaign for funsies. But there is a problem. My DM is stubborn and he makes mistakes. In stead of saying I was wrong and taking back the things he did wrong he sticks to his guns like a madman. 4 weeks ago we had a rocks fall all die experience. Whatever the reason, that's no fun for anyone playing. Today he sneak attacked the captain of our ship and killed her. He used some npc who drank a magic potion that granted him invisibility and flying, flew over from the enemy pirate ship to ours, landed behind her and killed her. My character turned around and saw nothing. The problem is that my character is a lvl 3 warlock with See the Unseen, granting See Invisibility for the same range as my normal vision. So there is no way this guy flew over to our ship without me detecting him assuming he didn't know I could see him while invisible. I told him that if the guy who killed my captain was invisible while he flew to our ship I would have spotted him. I said this the instant he said there was invisibility involved.

Easy fix: "Oh, rewind a couple of rounds. You see a man dressed in black robes flying from their ship to yours. What do you do?"

What happened: "No you didn't see him. Your captain is dead now, but you can see the guy. What do you do?"

This obviously changed the whole battle since we were a girl down from the get go. Also, this was no fun for her for the next few hours while we fought the evil pirates. She had to reroll a character, and the fight ended in disaster for us, being captured by the 3 named bad guys and now we have none of our items. At this point it would be better to just make new characters because at least they would have some gold to spend.

Another thing that I reacted to was that I bought a wizard's spellbook for future random bluff checks. So I pulled this out and told our captors "here is my spellbook (complete with scibbles mimicking wizard spells). I can't cast spells any more, I surrender" This should have been a fun little thingie, in stead our captors broke my fingers.

The thing is that our DM never did any of this while playing in the other campaigns, and the way he's going about things now makes the sessions seem like a fight vs the DM and not the NPCs. Has anyone here been in the same situation as either a DM or a player? What can I do? How can I tell him that I think he's a bit too stubborn, but without getting his hatred for eternity?

Raine_Sage
2013-10-29, 09:41 PM
Well the obvious answer is have you tried talking to him at all about it? You don't have to be confrontational, and the fact that he's only doing it for this campaign and not the others gives you a good non-judgemental jumping off point.

Just take him aside when you're not playing and ask "Hey I've noticed you've been playing the campaign kind of stiff lately, is everything ok?"

That way you're not accusing him of bad dming, and if he's not enjoying the campaign or if something else is bothering him you give him a way to come out and say it.

If he denies that anything is wrong just press a little more, if it looks like he's getting defensive back off. If ultimately nothing comes from talking it out, then talk with the rest of the group and see how they've been feeling. Sometimes a DM needs and intervention.

PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 10:00 PM
No, I haven't talked to him. Most of this happened today and I needed to vent a bit. But the guy who has been playing the longest boycotted the session after the rocks fall all die session, and was pretty open as to why. I thought the DM would have taken the hint. I talked to that guy after the session and he agreed with me though.

Do you think he's acting this way because he doesn't like the campaign? And how would these incidents help him in any way? I don't get it.

InQbait
2013-10-29, 10:07 PM
I agree with Raine Saige.
Perhaps because it is an "evil" campaign the dm feels the need to play a bit differently? I've seen this happen before. Some people are mature enough to handle evil campaigns, and some just aren't ready yet. Perhaps it would be better to stick with the "good" campaign you had going before?

PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 10:30 PM
Yeah maybe. The dilemma is that we've been doing this campaign for about two months now, and we all have plans for our characters. And it's kind of a relief to be playing evil. We get to do all the stuff that we always wanted to do with the other characters. "That guy deserves to die? I'll kill him and take his stuff" as opposed to "I'll hunt him down and incapacitate him with nonlethal damage and bring him to the authorities".

So I want to be able to play this campaign a bit more because the role playing part is fun. We're playing in Faerun as pirates in the Shining Sea, and my character is a warlock. When coming up with semi arab names to match the desert area I randomly said Jafar. I am making Jafar! The evil warlock with a snake staff who wants to rule the world! I even bought a parrot to make a familiar when I get the feat I need. None of us are power gamers and we don't want to be either. We want to have fun with a mix of role playing and action. It would be so much fun to play this campaign and I would like to fix it before it breaks. I guess I have to talk to him and tell him what we think.

Do you mean that he isn't mature enough for an evil campaign or that us players aren't? And why does an evil campaign change anything?

InQbait
2013-10-29, 10:37 PM
Well, evil campaigns are obviously different than good ones. The books recommend that player characters be good or neutral, and not evil. I am currently playing in an evil campaign, and it's going fine, for the most part. What I mean is, some people are just jerks and play evil as, "I'm going to rape every hot woman I see, steal everything of value, and kill and teabag all city guards." And that's no fun way to play in a group on the whole.
Evil characters don't work together as well as good characters do, (unless all PCs are Lawful Evil, I suppose. But, even then, it's iffy.)
Evil characters don't give a crap about preserving life.

Kane0
2013-10-29, 10:45 PM
It does seem at least a little connected to the fact that you're playing an evil campaign.

People have wildly differing views on Evil campaigns. This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311577) is currently active over in the 3rd ed forum and might lend you some insight. Perhaps even get your DM to peruse over it?

Edit: Also, has anything happened recently out of game? You said it was a recent thing.
Oh, perhaps you are using new material he isn't familiar with? Many people have knee-jerk reactions when first coming into contact with a 3rd ed Warlock.

PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 10:45 PM
But why would that be a problem to the DM? I mean even if we did all those things?

Most of us are Lawful, and the group is working together just as well as the good one. Our Dragon Shaman tried to hide away some silver he found. We spotted it and he almost died for 5 silver. He learned. We sail around on our ship and try to deal with what the DM throws at us. I sacrifice the occational soul to the Xammux when someone dies, but mostly it's very similar to the good campaign. The players understand that at this point we all need each other, and the characters are compatible with working in a tight group for common benefits. So again, is it likely that he's got his nickers in a twist just because we're evil?

Thanks, Kane0. I'll check the thread out :)

PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 10:53 PM
Nothing out of the ordinary out of game that I'm aware of. Maybe something's happening in his life that I'm not privy to. He has always been a bit stubborn, but now I feel it's worse. It didn't use to have an impact on the game, more along the lines of some differing interpretations of the rules. Nothing worse.

It may be the new material, but we've had a warlock with us in the good campaign too. And he's a really veteran gamer (I think he's been playing for 20 years or something) but I don't know if he's ever done evil before. Or naval. I can ask him. He's a really nice guy. Maybe he's just tired of being the DM?

Kane0
2013-10-29, 11:04 PM
Quite possibly. How long has it been since someone else had the reigns as DM?
If he's experienced and generally a good guy just have a chat, something must be up. If you're honest, chances are he will be too.

It could well be a combination of a difference in perspective of an evil character combined with that natural stubbornness, piled on top of other little (or not so little) things.

Ortesk
2013-10-29, 11:04 PM
Sometimes a dm is a bit of a jerk if he feels like hes failing as the dm, IE he makes a cool plot/battle and boom a pc blows it apart with ease. However him killing a PC when another PC can stop it is just a shame. He sounds like a DM you all like and long time friends. To the person who boycotted, again its a shame. This is a game and friends are much more valuable than DND.


Ny advice: take him to a bar and ask him about his home life. Maybe him and his SO are having issues, maybe work/money/ect are bugging him, but i dont think it being an evil campaign will be the root. It sounds like something deeper

PowerLemon
2013-10-29, 11:10 PM
He likes whisky, I'll try that. And I'll ask the other veteran in our group if maybe he wants to DM for a bit. And he and the guy who boycotted are very good friends, don't worry. We are a bunch of misfit medical students who get together to laugh and have fun on Tuesdays :smallsmile:

Raine_Sage
2013-10-29, 11:20 PM
No, I haven't talked to him. Most of this happened today and I needed to vent a bit. But the guy who has been playing the longest boycotted the session after the rocks fall all die session, and was pretty open as to why. I thought the DM would have taken the hint. I talked to that guy after the session and he agreed with me though.

Do you think he's acting this way because he doesn't like the campaign? And how would these incidents help him in any way? I don't get it.

Well it could be a bunch of things. He could not like the campaign, he could be going through some stuff that's put him in a sour mood, he could be having trouble reconciling bad guys getting away with things and is misguidedly trying to act like karma for your PCs.

Either way everyone else has pretty much said it, just talk to him and maybe ask if he wants a break from Dming for a bit. He sounds like a reasonable if somewhat pigheaded guy so I'm sure you can all come to an understanding.

Ortesk
2013-10-29, 11:43 PM
He likes whisky, I'll try that. And I'll ask the other veteran in our group if maybe he wants to DM for a bit. And he and the guy who boycotted are very good friends, don't worry. We are a bunch of misfit medical students who get together to laugh and have fun on Tuesdays :smallsmile:

Well theres your problem, id be a jerk if i had to look forward to a life of looking up peoples anal cavaties :P

I jest i jest, just see what his personal life is like, ask him about grades ect. You know him better than any of us do, just be his friend. If its truly nothing in his hoome life, maybe he is burned out as DM. If its home life, ask him if he wants to step down as DM and just show up and have fun. No spending 20 hours a week creating the encounters and what not