Im starting to get worried.

[Traab]

I swear the spam bots are learning! At first it was stupidly obvious. It was nothing but "WATCH THIS MOVIE FOR FREE!" Then they seemed to wise up and started posting fake articles and talking about real world issues. But that also stood out like a sore thumb as discussions on the israeli/palestinian standoff really dont belong in the roleplaying forum. :smalltongue: Now though, I swear the fake articles are getting harder to spot without opening them, except when they are spammed 5 in a row. Are we seeing the rise of skynet? Can we survive the day when robospam engulfs the earth with links to sites suggesting we surrender?

[KillianHawkeye]

http://xkcd.com/810/
(Warning: Language)

[The Succubus]

i agree with OP statement something must be done

watch free film here at totallynotadodgylink.haxxyourcomputer.lolz

[Spiryt]

no need to worry

btw I've seen really cool movie on the net yesterday.

[Lord Raziere]

personalization.

the cookies and advertisers are trying to narrow down the ads. to make it so that only issues we care about or like are shown. this is apart of a trend in recent media to pretty much make sure everything in the internet you see only matter to the person actually seeing it, to personalize the experience.

this is a bad thing.

basically they are trying to lure you with subjects/topics and so on that matter only to you, only things we care about. filtering things down until only the interests you will click on will be shown. while everything else is filtered out.

if not stopped, it theoretically results in people only see what they like about the world, and developing a "friendly world syndrome" as a result. its all in a book I read for my mass media class I am taking this semester.

[Razgriez]

i agree with OP statement something must be done

watch free film here at totallynotadodgylink.haxxyourcomputer.lolz

*eye twitches, hovers mouse cursor over the Report button for 30 seconds with trigger finger feeling a little itchy*

You are evil for that Succubus.

And yet, I can't stop my self from chuckling a bit

[Juggling Goth]

basically they are trying to lure you with subjects/topics and so on that matter only to you, only things we care about. filtering things down until only the interests you will click on will be shown. while everything else is filtered out.


It's kind of daft when it comes to big, expensive things. I'd just bought some new skates and started seeing skate adverts everywhere, thanks to the magic of cookies. Er, thanks, but I've just bought some. I only have two feet. I don't need any more for the time being.

[Studoku]

if not stopped, it theoretically results in people only see what they like about the world, and developing a "friendly world syndrome" as a result. its all in a book I read for my mass media class I am taking this semester.
I could live with that.

*Takes the blue pill.*

[The Succubus]

It's kind of daft when it comes to big, expensive things. I'd just bought some new skates and started seeing skate adverts everywhere, thanks to the magic of cookies. Er, thanks, but I've just bought some. I only have two feet. I don't need any more for the time being.

I know, right? I bought the collector's edition of EVE Online and yet I'm still seeing frigging cookie-adverts telling me to buy it! Although in fairness, that changed since I did an Amazon search for a 2DS and I'm now having Pokemon adverts shoved in my face. -.-

[Lord Raziere]

I could live with that.

*Takes the blue pill.*

which is a completely inaccurate view of the world, and would lead you to becoming very extreme in your views, as nothing would contradict you as you consume more internet media, which would lead to very bad things happening when they do, which they eventually will. basically it would lead to a splintering of opinions and viewpoints even more extreme than the polarized debates that happen today.

[Aedilred]

if not stopped, it theoretically results in people only see what they like about the world, and developing a "friendly world syndrome" as a result. its all in a book I read for my mass media class I am taking this semester.
They said I was mad for intentionally searching out things I knew would annoy me! Mad they said! Well who's laughing now?

*laughs madly*

[warty goblin]

which is a completely inaccurate view of the world, and would lead you to becoming very extreme in your views, as nothing would contradict you as you consume more internet media, which would lead to very bad things happening when they do, which they eventually will. basically it would lead to a splintering of opinions and viewpoints even more extreme than the polarized debates that happen today.

See also: how to mess with annoyingly hardcore Bayesians. Eventually you can drive their repeatedly updated posterior into complete lunacy. Which seems to be pretty much what's happened with LessWrong, although they managed that all by themselves. Which, really, just makes it funnier.

[factotum]

There's an important thing to remember here--not all spambots are actually *bots*. Some are real people who are hired at some ridiculously cheap rate to log onto forums and post spam messages, in the same way that there are people who are hired to farm gold in MMOs. This is why you'll sometimes see spam posts that not only make sense, but are loosely linked to the subject of the thread they're posted in!

[Chen]

personalization.

the cookies and advertisers are trying to narrow down the ads. to make it so that only issues we care about or like are shown. this is apart of a trend in recent media to pretty much make sure everything in the internet you see only matter to the person actually seeing it, to personalize the experience.


In terms of advertising, which I dislike anyway, I don't feel this is an issue. I don't particularly want to see ads about things I don't care about or will not be purchasing.

[warty goblin]

In terms of advertising, which I dislike anyway, I don't feel this is an issue. I don't particularly want to see ads about things I don't care about or will not be purchasing.

Personally I much prefer seeing ads for things in which I have no interest. Makes it that much less likely I'll spend any money.

[valadil]

personalization.

the cookies and advertisers are trying to narrow down the ads. to make it so that only issues we care about or like are shown. this is apart of a trend in recent media to pretty much make sure everything in the internet you see only matter to the person actually seeing it, to personalize the experience.

this is a bad thing.

basically they are trying to lure you with subjects/topics and so on that matter only to you, only things we care about. filtering things down until only the interests you will click on will be shown. while everything else is filtered out.

if not stopped, it theoretically results in people only see what they like about the world, and developing a "friendly world syndrome" as a result. its all in a book I read for my mass media class I am taking this semester.

So then we have to click on a few obvious spam messages a day to trick them right? They'll continue making spams obvious so we can ignore it except when doing our civic duty.

[Traab]

It's kind of daft when it comes to big, expensive things. I'd just bought some new skates and started seeing skate adverts everywhere, thanks to the magic of cookies. Er, thanks, but I've just bought some. I only have two feet. I don't need any more for the time being.

Same for me. I did an Ask search for lawnmower repairs and blammo, suddenly half my banner ads are on lawnmowers and gee whiz! They magically are almost identical to the specs I typed in! Wow, what a strange coincidence!

[sktarq]

I could live with that.

*Takes the blue pill.*

Congrats you will now be showered with Pfizer stock, ED, and anti aging supplement adds for years.

[Jaycemonde]

Congrats you will now be showered with Pfizer stock, ED, and anti aging supplement adds for years.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/apply-cold-water-to-the-burned-area.jpeg

I tend to have a very well-tailored set of ads (the kind I can't get rid of) on most websites = gun parts, SecondLife ads, EVE trailers (how do they fit two-minute videos into sidebars??) and the occasional car. On sites like FA and Giant in the Playground, most of the ads come from individual artists or small, niche businesses, so I genuinely like to see them and what they're selling (most of my +Watch list on FA is from clicking on random ad banners).

Then there's other ads, like the kind that pop up in text posts or flash a thousand times a minute about HIGH-QUALITY SHOES FOR $15.99!!!! when you're trying to read a dissertation. Or food ads in videos. Those are bad too.

[Grinner]

There's an important thing to remember here--not all spambots are actually *bots*. Some are real people who are hired at some ridiculously cheap rate to log onto forums and post spam messages, in the same way that there are people who are hired to farm gold in MMOs. This is why you'll sometimes see spam posts that not only make sense, but are loosely linked to the subject of the thread they're posted in!

Personally, I'd prefer that they be actual bots, as that would indicate an advance in AI research. Then, we'd be one step closer to the cyberpunk dystopia Gibson dreamed of, rather than this lame imitation we've set up.

[Lord Raziere]

So then we have to click on a few obvious spam messages a day to trick them right? They'll continue making spams obvious so we can ignore it except when doing our civic duty.

thats not how it works.

they WANT you to click, they don't care what you click. whatever you click, makes them money, it just determines which part of their scheme is making money off of you. they want you to focus on something. focus leads to personalization and tailoring to your viewpoint, or at least the viewpoint that the data thinks you have. and advertisers are eventually going to recognize that the obvious methods eventually won't work at all anyways.

they are not aiming for a group, they are aiming for the individuals. it doesn't matter which individual it is. its all about projecting the image that world online isn't something that will scare you away or challenge you, because that leads to people not clicking on stuff. its all a lure. taking different bait won't do anything. you still have the problem.

and even if you somehow find a way, there are more subtle methods still. there is pretty much a growing market for information gained from what people click online. the cookies and all that, that detect what you what you click on and are interested in on say, Google? yeah all that information is then sold to advertisers trying to make advertising personal until you only see ads they think only you will be interested in- as in, seven billion demographics of one. they probably have pretty much all or most of the internet observed this way.

and this shows no sign of stopping. you click on something, and it will change the net for you, not immediately but over time? eventually it narrows you down and profiles you. then it starts creating your own little world in the net filtering out any unwanted information. a filter bubble if you will, a space where only what you want is within and anything outside can penetrate, an accidental self-made deception and isolation.

that is the trend things are going nowadays, and if it continues, you can kiss goodbye the concept of a global village. because everyone will be in their own little island. problem is, you have to eventually go outside the island. you can't stay there forever.

its not just a problem here, its a trend everywhere. marketing to general groups and audiences is becoming outdated. marketing to individual people is what the future will be.

as for how this affects the current spambot problem? I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow figure out the general interests of the people this site sooner or later, and have already figured out how to make it subtle enough to lure you in. forget trying to trick them, the unsubtle ones are already gone by now. and thats probably the trend elsewhere as well, they are probably making fake accounts on Facebook to do the very same thing but on even bigger scale as we speak.

the only saving grace I can possibly think of, is that roleplaying seems to be an obscure hobby and therefore doesn't have much advertising behind it, at least to my point of view, so they wouldn't be able to make any spambots advertising rpgs, because there is no ads for them. at least for now.

[GoblinArchmage]

OP is obviously a spambot. Reported.

[pendell]

See also: how to mess with annoyingly hardcore Bayesians. Eventually you can drive their repeatedly updated posterior into complete lunacy. Which seems to be pretty much what's happened with LessWrong, although they managed that all by themselves. Which, really, just makes it funnier.


Okay, you've got my attention. What happened at LessWrong?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[warty goblin]

Okay, you've got my attention. What happened at LessWrong?

Respectfully,

Brian P.
So far as I know, nothing besides business as barking mad usual. Which is to say a lot of people doing things with Bayes Rule that you should not do with Bayes Rule, then considering it to constitute proof, instead of a mess on the carpet. This is complete bull for three important reasons:

1) Statistics does not prove anything. It can find cause and effect mechanisms, but only in the case of laboratory experiments with strong controls on outside sources of variation, and a scientific mechanism to explain the results. That is, statistics can in certain scenarios detect the presence and significance of a scientific mechanism underlying some association of cause and effect. Absent that, you've got correlation, and correlation alone.

2) Bayesian inference only makes any degree of sense if it is understood as epistemic probability. That is, it's a personal statement of belief, not a long-run relative frequency. The two agree in all but the details fairly frequently, because in cases where it is possible to make a long-run relative frequency argument, it's also the only sensible epistemic statement.

3) A Bayesian approach to a parametric problem is defined in fundamental ways through the choice of prior. This means that in order to produce results worth more than a used paper napkin, you need to verify that your prior assumptions are in fact reasonable. And saying 'these priors are reasonable' does not demonstrate your priors are reasonable. Doing that requires subject matter expertise, research, and careful thought and analysis to make sure you aren't choosing your prior to produce the result you want to produce. Which this (http://lesswrong.com/lw/1zx/addresses_in_the_multiverse/)isn't, it's complete drivel I'd only use to light a fire. This (http://lesswrong.com/lw/mt/beautiful_probability/)is the meandering undergraduate level wank of somebody who's never sat down in front of a .csv filled with data, an experimental design, and been asked 'so what can we conclude about X?' It's philosophical mumbo-jumbo, on the level of spinning out elaborate explanations for how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, nothing more.

So far as I can tell, LessWrong is a bunch of nerd fantasies dressed up in a poor understanding of a cherry-picked selection of actual statistical concepts elevated to faith statements by second rate purple prose. Yudkowsky is intelligent, but there's a difference between being intelligent and being smart. Intelligence is simply a capability, smart is that capability pounded and honed and polished and refined through use and experience and criticism. Which is the sort of thing you get in a traditional education, particularly at advanced levels. It's not the sort of thing you get reading a bunch of probability texts on your own, and running a website where you're free to shut out dissenting voices. That leads to the sort of dangerous chained Bayesian drift I mentioned earlier, a slow wandering of your belief system away from the sensible, as you feed yourself only the information that confirms your existing beliefs.

Bottom line: just because it uses lots of fancy words with actual meaning doesn't mean it isn't BS.

[Palanan]

Speaking of evil targeted spam, Yahoo is now delivering this straight to your inbox. They've had full-screen commercials on their login page for years, and banner ads for even longer, but now they're sending promotional emails to the top of the queue.

Worse yet, they're instantly updated to reflect your email activity. I don't even have to send an email; all I have to do is search my inbox for "Hazelwood"--the name of an NPC in my last campaign--and along with the search results I get a Yahoo-generated email offering to find colleges in Hazelwood, NC.

I really, really hate Yahoo. But they're all evil.

And not just "bad," but....

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!!!!

[AttilaTheGeek]

Speaking of evil targeted spam, Yahoo is now delivering this straight to your inbox. They've had full-screen commercials on their login page for years, and banner ads for even longer, but now they're sending promotional emails to the top of the queue.

Worse yet, they're instantly updated to reflect your email activity. I don't even have to send an email; all I have to do is search my inbox for "Hazelwood"--the name of an NPC in my last campaign--and along with the search results I get a Yahoo-generated email offering to find colleges in Hazelwood, NC.

I really, really hate Yahoo. But they're all evil.


Speaking of evil targeted spam, Yahoo is now delivering this straight to your inbox. They've had full-screen commercials on their login page for years, and banner ads for even longer, but now they're sending promotional emails to the top of the queue.


Yahoo is now delivering this straight to your inbox.

There are people who still use yahoo mail?!

[xkaliburr]

How do we know we are not already in the Matrix, and what we are seeing is the birth of the Matrix's Matrix? First spam bots, then little amniotic sacks man.

[Elemental]

This thread has reminded me of a very important detail... I should check my email.

[BRC]

I saw an incredibly clever spambot once. Most of them seem to focus on just getting us to click on the thread.

This one was clever.
"Hello", it posted, "I am interested in buying this product, but I have some questions about it, does anybody have any experience with this sort of thing?" and it provided a link.

Only the fact that it was the user's first post and the fact that it was randomly in the Board Issues forum.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by AttilaTheGeek
There are people who still use yahoo mail?!

Yes.

*waves*



It's not that I like Yahoo, I hate it. There's just nothing I can do about it right now.

[Taffimai]

I once found the personalised adds helpful. I wanted to know about prices for those metal garage/shed things that you buy in pieces and assemble in your garden, and did a search for them. Lo and behold, helpy addbot showered me with amazon and e-bay links for an entire week that had better deals for the same general product. I now have a good idea what I can expect to spend, and where to find it.

I like that a lot better than, for example, youtube adds for products I have no interest in whatsoever and that only apply to me because "you live in country X, this company sells there, so presto!" I wish I could fill out a survey that I could trust them to stick to. Nothing but Old Spice, '90s Diet Coke commercials and film previews, ahhh!

All kidding aside, I find myself becoming strangely compulsive about avoiding the adds. A single note and the volume goes down and I go to another tab. Even the ones that might interest me don't get a chance to play anymore. Which is a pity, because I don't watch tv, rarely listen to the radio, and get my news from add-free sites, so cultural events in my area, new books, films or promotions for products that I would actually like to be told about just don't have any way to enter my life other than the internet.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Which is a pity, because I don't watch tv, rarely listen to the radio, and get my news from add-free sites, so cultural events in my area, new books, films or promotions for products that I would actually like to be told about just don't have any way to enter my life other than the internet.

To be honest, I get most of my current events news from the random news-titled spam threads in the roleplaying games forum. And most of the rest I get from tumblr.

[Gadora]

Speaking of evil targeted spam, Yahoo is now delivering this straight to your inbox. They've had full-screen commercials on their login page for years, and banner ads for even longer, but now they're sending promotional emails to the top of the queue.

Worse yet, they're instantly updated to reflect your email activity. I don't even have to send an email; all I have to do is search my inbox for "Hazelwood"--the name of an NPC in my last campaign--and along with the search results I get a Yahoo-generated email offering to find colleges in Hazelwood, NC.

I really, really hate Yahoo. But they're all evil.

And not just "bad," but....

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!!!!!
Isn't Google currently being sued for just that sort of thing?

Yes.

*waves*



It's not that I like Yahoo, I hate it. There's just nothing I can do about it right now.
That's your uncle talking.

[JustSomeGuy]

Kinda funny:

We bought a 2nd hand laptop a while back, and since then i am pretty much always going to get 'mature dating uk' ads, while she gets a variety along the lines of 'hot young guys in your area'. If we specifically google something, the ads will change to reflect that, but after a few days back they go.

I am 30, the wife is 28. I feel discriminated against (which the wife find hilarious).