Having fun with my character again

[Trilby]

Hey everyone, I have a question for the playground.

I'm relatively new to DnD (been playing a little over a year, and have DM'd a few games for a different group of friends). All of my player-time has been with a group of wonderful people whose company I enjoy. I'm still playing my first character. And therein lies the problem.

He's a Favored Soul(4)/Sorcerer(3), and going nowhere fast. I chose things I liked, not things that are playable (i.e. I'm a gnome wielding a rapier, with a lot of utility spells, hoping to enter mystic theurge eventually because it sounded fun when I first started.)
I asked the DM on several times if I could start another character, because I now know the game a bit better and would like a character that's fun for me to play.
However, this is not an option as there are 'plans' for all our characters, and because of REASONS (I've asked a dozen times, it's not happening).

My question for the playground: How can I make this healbot/kneecap stabber with magic fun to play? The party consists of a druid (who does lots of damage), a ninja (who's good with stealth and stabbing things), a drunken master monk (who is good with damage, but also requires lots of my healing spells), and me.

It looks like I have no agency in combat (which is 85% of our play time), I am constantly moving my 15 ft towards hurt companions in order to ineffectively heal them with my CLW, or doing 1d4+3 damage with my rapier, which is not much fun for me or the others, who said on several occasions that I don't do (enough) damage, or that I am lagging behind.

Please help a guy out?:smalleek:

[HalfQuart]

Just rebuild your character, keeping the same name, personality, back-story, and essential fluff, but rework the mechanics into something more playable... Then bring that to your DM and see if you can swap. That way it's essentially the same character and shouldn't mess too majorly with any long-term plans he has for you.

Or your character could have an "accident" and get killed off. ;-)

[Kioras]

If your dm won't let you rebuild the character, and it is no longer fun to play because he is not active or enjoyable in combat, which is 85% of your play, I would use the combat as an excuse to see if he can have some accident. Sounds like you are playing a trap combination of classes with a skilled, maybe optimized druid and monk.

I am not sure of anything, other then somehow getting some levels that can help this combination.

[Abaddona]

Ask him about retraining your character - with those you can change your character class, skill points and feats. Race can be changed by druidic reincarnation (it will require DM cooperation to get the race you want) or by homebrewed magical accident.
If he says no to completely reworking your character - you can ask him if he will allow you to change some of things to make it more optimized (early entry into MT stunts). If he still says no - make your character have an accident - then if your DM will want to keep your character alive at all costs - your party will get quite good trap tester/meatshield.

[Evandar]

What has made you decide not to roll with Mystic Theurge?

Right now I'm playing a Dungeoncrasher Fighter that the Playground helped me build, and I've been using lots of stuff like caltrops, battering rams, ladders and random crap (creatively applied) to overcome the general uselessness of fighters outside of straight up attacking. That might be something you can start looking at.

[Juntao112]

I asked the DM on several times if I could start another character, because I now know the game a bit better and would like a character that's fun for me to play.
However, this is not an option as there are 'plans' for all our characters, and because of REASONS (I've asked a dozen times, it's not happening).


Don't you get it? You are now INVINCIBLE! Do whatever you want, you can get away with anything, because of PLANS and REASONS!

[Trilby]

Thanks all for your responses :D

@Evandar, it's not that I don't want to be an MT anymore, but it's taken us a year to go from 4 -> 7, and I can get into MT at lvl 9 by my calculations because of the delayed progression for both FS and Sorc.

@Juntao112: I LOL'd, but no. I'm not looking to wield my plot-armor.

I'll see if he goes with rebuilding my character, though I'll probably be stuck with the class levels I've chosen. Anyone got some tips on hammering a non-healbot out of this mess? Also, MT looks fun, but if anyone has other options for prc's this could get in to, I'm open to them.

[JaronK]

Well, the Guidance of the Avatar spell (find it online) would let you act as a skill monkey, so that's a start.

JaronK

[Madwand99]

Rebuild your PC as a Cleric 7. Keep the same race, name, background, etc. but make him actually effective. If your DM says "no", then don't play. Either you get to have fun or just don't play. Make this clear to your DM: you aren't having fun. Either you get to play a game where you are having fun, or you won't play.

[Yawgmoth]

Rebuild your PC as a Cleric 7. Keep the same race, name, background, etc. but make him actually effective. If your DM says "no", then don't play. Either you get to have fun or just don't play. Make this clear to your DM: you aren't having fun. Either you get to play a game where you are having fun, or you won't play. Quoting this for emphasis. Unfun gaming is worse than no gaming at all, and if your DM doesn't understand this then he doesn't deserve players.

If he feels the need to make it an in-character thing, tell him to crack open PHB2 and have a look at the retraining/reworking section. If you're a divine character, then just have him step into a temple of [deity], pray to have [new character's sheet], holy special effects and bam new character with no fuss.

[Garagos]

I'll throw my hat in with the retraining idea first. There really shouldn't be a good reason he doesn't allow this since he won't let you bring in a new character. You may just need to talk with him about what you want to become instead because he will have to design an adventure or two around it.

If he's completely against that, then enjoy trying like hell to get yourself killed. Don't make it too obvious, but never bother healing yourself, always attack the most dangerous monster/villain available, volunteer to go first into dungeons without searching for traps. Eventually you should fall victim to something/someone. If you wanna speed it up, although this will make it more obvious, stop making saving throws, stop adding your Dex to AC (or wearing armor at all), etc.

The others are right, its your character and you should be having fun with it. It sounds like he is trying to railroad you a bit and is kinda throwing a hissy that you're screwing up his well laid out plans.

[Trilby]

I checked out the Guidance of the Avatar spell, and that is definitely going on my list :)
I'll also check if I can get retrained. And Yawgmoth, thanks for the imagery of walking into the temple -> holy fireworks, batman -> and presto: new character sheet. Hard to argue with Word of God, now is it. :smallcool:

[Aharon]

He won't allow an OOC rebuild - what is his stance on an In-Character-Rebuild? Psychic Reformation or negative levels and Restoration are options in the game.

Have you asked him if a partial rebuild is acceptable (i.e. your spells known only)? If you choose the right spells, you can still be more effective than any mundane character. Plus, Mystic Theurge actually isn't that bad in some real games. Its main strength (lots of spell slots) can come in handy if your group is averse to 5-minute-workdays or your adventures frequently have time limits.

[Juntao112]

But a Favored Soul/sorcerer gets such delayed spell progression that you're basically just getting a lot of low level spells.

Its like wandering into a warzone with an infinite amount of 9mm ammunition for your pistol when you need tanks, artillery, and bombs.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Just rebuild your character, keeping the same name, personality, back-story, and essential fluff, but rework the mechanics into something more playable... Then bring that to your DM and see if you can swap. That way it's essentially the same character and shouldn't mess too majorly with any long-term plans he has for you.
This is usually my first suggestion. Something like Sorcerer 1/Favored Soul 3/Mystic Theurge 3 would be workable-- grab Precocious Apprentice and something to make Knowledge (Religion) a class skill (Education? Apprentice?) and you can jump right in with nearly-full divine casting.

[Spore]

Don't you get it? You are now INVINCIBLE! Do whatever you want, you can get away with anything, because of PLANS and REASONS!

God how I HATE plot armor.

[Kevka Palazzo]

God how I HATE plot armor.

Yeah, but in this instance it seems like the player could abuse it to the point where the DM caves. But that's a really passive-aggressive way to deal with the problem.

Still, if a DM ever gave me plot armor like that I wouldn't hesitate to abuse the hell out of it. :smalltongue:

[Spore]

Still, if a DM ever gave me plot armor like that I wouldn't hesitate to abuse the hell out of it. :smalltongue:

Your talking to the rogue who tried to rob the Dwarves on the brink of extinction, failed and only got cursed and lost two fingers.

Maybe the exploiting goes both ways. =(

[Captnq]

Alright. I'm sorry. I have to say this. I'll put it in a spoiler. Just skip over it.


What was your DM thinking???


Friends do not let friends play Favored Soul/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge.

Holy Crap. That is some serious self-nerfing. We had someone play a Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge and THAT was painful to watch. But he KNEW what he was getting into. He WANTED to cripple his spellcasting. Okay, around level 10 he started to hit his stride, but still...

You're new at this. Someone should have hit you with a rulebook or something!

*sigh*

not your fault. Not your fault. You know, I should go and put a new trap in the Noob Handbook:

Trap 22: Favored Soul/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge
Don't. Just don't.


Okay. I'm done. Okay, let's see what we can do to help salvage this.

It's a little late for the noob handbook for you, considering you already jumped into the deep end of the pool. So I direct you to my Sig file. It's at the bottom of this post (Yes, some people ask). Just click on the spoiler.

The Spellbook will supply you with a complete list of spells. I suggest you chew on it like a starving rat gnaws on a old bar of soap. Read the individual entries when something jumps out at you. The important ones are in bold and color. They have editor notes that are sometimes insightful, sometimes witty, often sarcastic.

The Weapon Handbook is where you are going to get your most help now. It's too late to try and reverse the damage (short of retraining, which involves begging your DM.) Your class levels will take forever to turn into anything useful. I've born witness to it first hand.

But the weapon handbook has many many MANY ways to build nasty weapons. I suggest the sorcerer's hand. It adds WSAs to your ray spells. Consider the Gnome Calculus and adding a few Weapon Augment crystals when you hurl flasks of bubbling alchemy goo at your targets. Nasty, yet cheap and effective. (make sure to check back in a few weeks for the Armor handbook should be done before year's end.

Finally, go HERE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5044.msg73050#msg73050). This is the complete list of every class that can cast spells or adds to spells. Print out a copy. Hand it to your DM Tell him, "Please cross out the ones I can't use." Then PM me. We'll figure something out.

Oh, HERE (http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1382631190), download the spreadsheet.

Personally, I'd make your next level Wild Mage and pick up some metamagic maximize and empower rods.

Remember, under Wild mage ALL spells become Variable Level. And since Maximize and Empower modify ANY variable in a spell...

See where I'm going here?

Oh, and the feat, Practiced Spellcaster (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/practiced-spellcaster--2231/)? It's your friend. Take it twice.

After that... Well... I'd just like to point out there are other options to Mystic Theurge. True Necromancer for example. Arcane Hirophant? Fochlucan Lyrist only needs a little dip into Prestige Bard and gives you access to all sorts of fun new spell options. Now you can pick bard or sorcerer spells, depending on which level is better for you!

Well, best of luck. Hope he allows that rebuild.

[Fable Wright]

In the short term, try keeping the healing to out of combat, rather than in combat, and refuse to heal anyone without a Belt of Healing or a Wand of CLW (which you can use out of combat to heal them). (Seriously. They should at least try to take care of their own HP totals.) Also shift the focus of your healing spells a bit. Do Immediate action spells like Close Wounds and Delay Death, not Standard action spells that heal a bit more but take your turn to use.

And then for damage potential... unfortunately, you can't use the high end Wiz/Sorc damage spells yet. Belker Claws is the highest damage 2nd level spell you can get (4d12 damage over 2 turns) but it requires going into melee. Scorching Ray has range and works with your 16 Dex and does 4d6 damage, which is certainly an upgrade, which goes up to 8d6 damage when you grab Practiced Spellcaster. (Belker Claws going up to 6d12 over 3 turns at level 9 with practiced spellcaster on Sorcerer.) Color Spray, while not as good as it was at level 1, is still a save or be stunned for 1 round spell. Blade of Blood is a pretty good spell for adding to melee damage, though you can't use it if you used an Immediate action healbot spell.

[Krobar]

For me the fun isn't in the mechanics of the character, it's in his personality and the roleplaying. He sounds like the kind of guy that should realize that he is the greatest swordsman of all time and endlessly talk about how great he is. Start out by trying to get the others to rename the party to something like <character name here> And Friends. Shamelessly promote yourself at every opportunity, tell NPCs "I'm in charge here..." especially when you re not in charge there. Take the party on a long, dangerous adventure to find the best cigars in all the land, but don't tell them you're looking for cigars, call it "magic herbs." Interrupt the dragon by saying "cease your tedious prattling..." Call that pit fiend a tawdry, unimportant little jackanape. Dont even get me started on mocking gods to their priests' faces... "my name is Pelor.. drrhrrrhrrr..."

There are all kinds of things you can do along these lines.

[Metahuman1]

The first thing you need to do is crack open Tome of Battle, and dip a level of Crusader. Your allies will like the White Raven and Devoted spirit maneuvers that help them, you'll like that there helping you.

After that, you need to fast track getting into Mystic Thurge.

In one of the books about the different planes there's a magical location that grants turn undead. Get it, and as many nightsticks (Hero's of Horror.) as you can, as soon as you have access to Mystic Thurge, you need to get Persist Spell online, and nab Divine Metamagic Persist Spell. (Feats from complete Divine.)

Last, pop open Complete Champion. Travel and Luck Devotion feats will be your friends.


Do this an you can salvage a reasonable Gish in the coming game.

[Trilby]

@DMofDarkness: solid advice, I still think MT can be fun, to me it was playing through the low levels while learning the game where it all broke down (and remaining stuck with those choices). I'm not looking to be the über-optimized magicky dude, I'd like to either buff the others into being awesomer, or being somewhat effective with my weapon as I soak up the hits.
@Krobar: I hear what you are saying, I've been doing that for roughly half a year. What I've found, is that in the little time we spend out of combat, I tend to hog the spotlight (it's like some weird recognition for not contributing much the rest of the time) and that doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm in a different game from the rest of the group.
@Captnq: awesome post, I think upgrading my weapon/bag of tricks might indeed help a lot.
@Sporeegg/Kevka Palazzo: still don't want to use the plot armor :smallbiggrin:

Thanks all for the advice, I'm trying to redesign my character with the class levels he has and keep him playable for the next few levels. Tips are very welcome.

[Trilby]

@Metahuman1: sadly for me Tome of Battle, Complete Champion and Magic Item Companion are off the table.
I thought I'd pick up a Shadow Cloak to give me some mobility, some weapon enhancements, then see where that and a slightly different build land me.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, ok then. I see part of the problem.

Your DM does not understand game mechanics balance. If he did, he wouldn't be denying you access to Tome of Battle and Magic Item Compendium, the two books that do the most to help mundanes and melee have nice things and keep pace with reasonably built spell casters.

[Evandar]

Man, you don't give a body much to work with, do you?

Do you mean 'redesign' in the sense of 'changing my game plan for the levels leading up to MT' or 'reassigning feats/skillpoints while remaining FS 4/Sorc 3'. In any case, what have you dropped your feats into? What are your stats looking like? Is the ultimate joke of life that it goes on?

[Kennisiou]

Honestly if you can't change the class levels he currently has your best bet is to just keep on the path you're already on, or maybe to find some sort of way to get into mystic theurge sooner. It's really all you've got going for you, man.

Also, I want to reiterate what everyone else said re: don't try to in-combat heal. Focus less on dealing damage in-combat and more on using buffs/debuffs and battlefield control effects. That's where you're going to excel, even early on. Ray of Enfeeblement is a great spell for you to use, for example.

[Trilby]

Okay, so I got permission to repick my latest feat, and redesign my list of spells known, that should get me somewhere. Featwise I decided on versatile spellcaster, that seems to have a lot of synergy with my setup. (lots of low level spells to burn)

Guidance of the Avatar is going to be one, Light of Mercuria is another (My Wis is awful, so things with no saves are it in my book:smallcool:), if anyone knows a good lvl 2 cleric spell that can be useful in and out of combat, I'm all ears.

[Metahuman1]

Favored soul uses Cha for casting cleric spells including the DC's I though?

In any event. The big question now is what do you want to do with your character?

You can focus on up too 2 things, choose well.

[Red Rubber Band]

Favored soul uses Cha for casting cleric spells including the DC's I though?

In any event. The big question now is what do you want to do with your character?

You can focus on up too 2 things, choose well.

Favoured Soul uses Wis for DCs.

Edit. You're using a rapier. Is that the Pride Domain? I remember some bonus spells being pretty cool. Could have been homebrew, though.

[Evandar]

They apparently used Charisma to determine spells per day and Wisdom for DCs.

Didn't know that. Kinda sucks. It might be better to grab Practiced Spellcaster as recommended earlier than Versatile Spellcaster.

[Metahuman1]

... Well, that completely totaled any chance I'd ever play a favored soul in a normal game.

Right, in that case, you best bet is to find spells that are buffs/healing/utility that don't offer saves for favored soul, pump your Cha, and let your Sorcerer side be designated for things like grease, ray of enfeeblement, Glitter Dust, Charm Person, Web and other spells that mess up enemy's if they don't make there save.